What is the story behind Kerry's accent?

[JDPhD]

You know the fake English accent that some upper crust Northeasterners have? Like George Plimpton or William F Buckley, as examples. Whenever I hear such an accent, I can't help but think that the person with it is nothing more than a pretentious, pompous poser--who can't accept that he's just another mongrel American, and thus feels the desperate need to prove how sophisticated, urbane, and even European he is (with his every gravel-mouthed word). Now, I do realize most people with this dreadful accent are not faking it. A couple of years ago I taught a kid at Stanford who was from Cambridge--Cambridge, Massachusetts, that is. His faux-English accent was the thickest I have ever heard. I asked him about it, and at first he didn't even know what I was talking about. It turns out that everyone he ever socialized with--at home, at the country club, or at his private school--spoke that way too. He came by it quite honestly, but it still annoyed me tremendously every time I heard him speak.

Well, I was watching a clip of John Kerry's testimony before Congress after his return from Vietnam--filmed decades ago. In the clip he has one of those awful, tight jawed, fake English accents! It wasn't extreme, but it was there, nonetheless. Yet, when I listen to him speak now, it appears that he no longer has the silly accent. (Interestingly, his wife does seem to have it, though.)

So, this now raises several questions for me, that I am hoping someone here can answer.

1) Was John Kerry raised with the fake English accent, and then chose to lose it when he went into politics (figuring a more normal accent would play better with the Irish common-man of the Commonwealth)--thus making his current non-accent the one that is actually fake?

2) Or, was the accent, when he did have it, nothing more than a pretentious effort to appear sophisticated--perhaps developed at Yale--that eventually lost its usefulness as he moved into less insular social circles?

3) And, if he no longer has the accent when in front of the TV cameras, does it return when he sits around sipping brandy with his friends from Harvard Yard? Does he turn it on and off as politics and present company dictate?

I am really curious about this, because, although the pseudo-English accent annoys me, I am even more disturbed by people adjusting their accents to fit a certain crowd. I hate to hear Bush go into "ah shucks" mode, but I also hate hearing Clinton thicken up his Southern drawl for a Southern crowd. It is all so disingenuous--at least it seems so to me.

So, can anyone answer my questions about the history of Kerry's accent?

[Bunny]

1. What in the world are you talking about?

Kerry's accent is New England, not "fake English". And he speaks with this accent all the times that I hear him. So what's your point?

[La_Serpiente]

2. Dr. JDPhd

I have no clue :shrug:

He sounds normal to me

[atre]

41. I am from NC

and I don't hear a "fake English accent." I don't like Kerry, but I don't think this issue has any traction.

[JDPhD]

51. Um, I'm asking about how Kerry spoke 30 years ago, not now.

Watch the clips of Kerry speaking out during the Vietnam era. His accent then was quite different from his accent now. It WAS the tight jawed, gravel mouthed, King's Enlish cadence of George Plimpton, Bill Buckley, and, yes, even FDR. But that accent is now gone. The current Kerry has a fairly accent-neutral voice. I just want to know why his accent changed? Did he think it would be a political liability to keep talking like he had a silver spoon in his mouth? Such a change seems phonie to me--kind of like throwing someone else's medals over the White House fence.

[molly]

3. I moved from the mid-west to the east coast

I didn't even realize I had an accent. I got teased - friendly of course - when I first moved here. Now my old mid-west friends say I sound like an east born and bred.

And, your point?

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. We were in Boston a few years ago

and a man at our hotel said, in a heavy eastern accent, "I LOVE your accent! are you from Chicago?" We had to laugh because earlier my husband and I had been talking about the "eastern" accent. (which we love) Like you, didn't know "I" had an accent. I live in Illinois just south of Chicaaaahgo. :7

[TedsGarage]

53. Chicawgo

If you lived on the North Side, like me, you'd be from "Chicawgo."

[wellstone_democrat]

4. general NE Prep school accent

sort of "mid Atlantic" was always the term (FDR had it, Buckley, my mother..the list is long)

I have more than a trace still and it is , like all original accents any of us have, more pronounced when I'm angry, tired, or visit/talk to anyone back home.

I'm guessing that Kerry comes by it more honestly-0--=-given where he lives---than Bush does that "Midland" accent that I have yet to hear ONE Texan duplicate in the three years I've been in that region.

[molly]

Bush's fake Texas drawl - too funny!

[patdem]

5. Kerry's honest accent is better than bush*s phony texas accent

n/t

[anti-NAFTA]

46. I know, right.

I doubt the New England born and bred Dubya really talks like that in private. He's pretty bad at faking too: Listen to how he says "rather." He says it like a New Englander.

[MaineDem]

6. What accent?

Sounds fine to me.

[curse10]

7. Ummm, have you heard an English accent?

Kerry's isn't even close to a "pseudo-English" accent. It's how half the people in Massachusetts talk.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

12. Thank you-and it truly is "The King's English"

it is the closest accent to the British in North America.

[curse10]

19. And really, it's just the cadence

I wouldn't even call it a full fledged "accent". Many of my friends have that accent. Heck, you have a bit of that accent RR!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

23. Why yes I do-I say my "r's" but my vowels are from the Pilgrims!

;-)

[caledesi]

43. Thank you! That was my point exactly.

Hey, and if this person wants to talk about fake accents, look no further than Bush*.

[mitchum]

8. Huh?

That's not a "fake English accent" (neither is Buckley's) Are you sure you're not thinking of Madonna or that guy in Green Day?

[Frances]

9. First, as a teacher

I am very concerned that you were prejudiced against a student because of his accent.

I was born in Alabama and still have a southern accent. I hate it when someone prejudges me because of the way I speak.

As for Kerry, I think he did live in Europe as a child because of his father's work.

I worked very hard for Chris Van Hollen to be elected to Congress from Maryland's 8th congressional district. Chris's father was a diplomat and he lived in other countries as a child. I think that experience made him more open minded.

I suggest that you visit Boston and speak with the people who were born there so that you can see for yourself how they talk. I lived in the Boston area and I loved the people I met there. Yes, they had a distinctive accent, but they were good people.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

10. Thanks for the insult-I'm from Cambridge, MA

Among the older generation from the upper class, there is a specific cadence that to YOU may sound British, but to ME as a native sounds like a prep school/Harvard accent. It is NOT pretentious, merely a remnant of HOW they were TAUGHT to speak in school. My grandfather was taught by Jesuits in Boston, and he had a modified "upper crust" Boston accent, though he was a working man. In the older generation, you do find these kind of accents. William Bulger, former Irish-American Massachustts Senate President had this kind of accent, and he was educated at Boston College.

[molly]

16. I see your point - here in the Philly/Wilmington region

I can think of at least 4-5 distinct accents based on a few mile radius. South Philly is one - Philly upper-crust is another - southern Delaware - upper Delaware - some of all of these are mixed.

[curse10]

22. In Mass we have at least 3 distinctive accents

the "bahston" accent. The Cambridge/Kerry accent. And even Western Mass has an accent all its own.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

24. Yes-The 'Kerry' accent. he doesn't come back to respond but

it looks like JDD whatever his name is has coined a new term!

Now all we need are the :tinfoilhat: folks to swoop in and say it's part of some sinister club he belongs to.

[jfxgillis]

76. Wicked good linguistic analysis n/t

[molly]

11. I forgot to ask - how do you determine fake from real?

[AP]

13. It's a class thang. You wouldn't understand.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

14. Have you even been to fucking New England?

I doubt it. We'd probably stop you at the border.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

I think he does it in order to provoke flamebait on DU.

:eyes:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

17. Yes there is a pattern here

I have noticed-lurks for a while, then flames and runs away.

transparent. tiresome.

:eyes:

[BlueEyedSon]

15. He did go to prep school in Switzerland.

[quinnox]

18. wins for most shallow post of the day

n/t

[molly]

20. Almost!

[Maddy McCall]

21. Isn't he married to a woman from South Africa who has an accent...

and don't people who LIVE together frequently pick up verbal mannerisms?

I don't think he is being pretentious, but am not surprised that the smear level has now reached new depths.

[molly]

25. The "smear level" is growing as he is

[KC21304]

27. Fake ? You're asking about fake ? LOL

I think we will give Mrs. Kerry a little slack, seeing she was raised in AFRICA and her parents were from Portugal. Anything else we can help you with ?

[hlthe2b]

28. Ohh, come now...

My early years were spent in the lower midwest, and I had essentially no discernable accent, as is practiced by many in the media. However, I lived several years in the deep south and found that I had picked up a "soft" but discernable southern accent. Professionally, I had a need to do considerable speaking to large audiences and had observed audiences in the presence of speakers with very pronounced accents. It seemed apparent that they were fixated on the accent and not the message. I have found that tendency to be distracted in myself--even with deep regional southern accents, that I should have been "used to." So, I made every effort to drop the accent--one that I never consciously adopted to begin with. While I have had considerable success in losing the accent, it doesn't take very long for me to accidentally pick it back up again, upon travel back to the South. My sister is even more susceptible to picking up regional speaking patterns; my family always teased us about what we'd sound like upon returning from a month in Ireland...

So, I certainly don't criticize anyone for attempting to diminish their own accent for professional reasons, in order to be most effective in speaking/teaching/ or interacting with a wider national audience. Similarly, I know first hand that that old accent can come back when you are least aware of it. SOmething to think about. It may not always be conscious.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

29. Frankly you insult me

I'm from New England and he sounds like everybody else around me save the Boston accent. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Piperay]

30. GEEEESH, Give me a break!

How petty to hold someone's accent against them, maybe your accent sounds funny to someone who is from somewhere different from you, did you ever think of that!?! :argh:

[JDPhD]

31. May I respond?

1. I am surprised at the reaction I caused. My post was not intended to insult or to be "flame bait". I just had an honest question.

2. Yes, I have been to the Northeast. Yes, I have been to Massachusetts. Yes, I have been to Boston. Yes I have been to Harvard. Many times. One of my best friends was even born and raised in the area. One thing I am absolutely sure of is that the way Kerry used to talk, and the way his wife does now talk, is not the way all Northeasterners talk--or even everyone from Mass., or everyone from Boston, or everyone from Harvard. The poster who described the accent in question as being upper-class prep school probably had it right.

The way John Kerry spoke in his Vietnam era clips is different than the way he speaks today. And the way he spoke back then is different from a typical resident of New England. When I think of a stereotypical New England accent, I think of JFK, RFK, or Teddy--not George Plimpton. But in the old clips, the young Kerry sounds more like Plimpton than JFK.

3. The poster who said that it is a class "thang" that I probably wouldn't understand, is probably right. I grew up in a dirt poor, single-parent home, in a little back-woods logging town in Oregon. A New England prep school accent is practically a foreign language to me. I guess this explains why I dislike the accent in question so instinctively--it seems to symbolize everything that was never part of my life, such as riches and privilege. Its hard for me to warm up to a voice that seems to say--regardless of the words that it is speaking--that its speaker has never had to really work for anything in his whole life. I sometimes wonder if the prep school accent comes from trying to talk past the silver spoon.

4. My original concern, in asking this question, was about how genuine Kerry really is. It rubs me the wrong way when anyone tries to distance themselves from who they really are--such as through changing an accent or getting cosmetic surgery. People who do such things just seem phoney to me.

5. Contrary to some accusations, I did not run away from this thread. But I have other things to do with my life besides hovering over the keyboard waiting for someone to respond. I left for awhile, and then checked back to discover a string of venom. I'm sorry that so many of you are so sensitive about this topic. In the time it has taken me to compose this reply, there probbaly has been several more criticisms posted, but I doubt it will do me much good to try to fend them off too.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

33. You mustn't have an ear for accents-I'm from CAMBRIDGE

My family has been in New England and Cambridge since the 17th century on one side, and the Potato Famine on the other side. I grew up two streets away from Harvard U and currently live about a mile from there. I have been surrounded by Cambridge townies as well as Harvard/MIT intelligentsia MY WHOLE LIFE. There are PLENTY of people who speak that way you label "upper-crust". Even working-class old-timers. Even Catholic school graduates.

I'm the daughter of a firefighter who grew up blue collar. You would probably think my long vowels and soft "r's" are "upper-class". I would say that is more a product of your own insecurities than an astute observation.

Is your attack on Kerry really an attack on the Northeast?

[Leilani]

34. It is a class thing

& used to be more common than it is today.

It is known as "Locust Valley Lockjaw", & is common among the elite of the East Coast, primarily North East.

It is common on Long Island, Conn., NJ.

Gov. Kean, heading the 9/11 commission has it...he's from one of the founding families of NJ.

Kerry's accent is slightly different, because he mixes it with a Mass. accent.

Listen to old FDR speeches some time; he had the accent in spades.

By the way, I'm not attacking Kerry because of this, just saying it's a fact.

[DeepModem Mom]

35. Surely you don't object to FDR's upper-class accent?

His silver spoon didn't stop him from leading us out of the poverty of the Great Depression, and through a World War. Many wealthy members of the upper class are raised in families that instill in them the responsibility to do something for those less fortunate. This was not true unfortunately of the Bush family. Their money is used only to accumulate more wealth, for themselves and their cronies and supporters.

[Leilani]

36. Of course not

Sorry if I was misunderstood.

I wasn't criticizing, just stating a fact.

And in response to the original poster, it's not FAKE, it's just how some people talk in the Northeast.

The only fake accent among candidates is Bush.

[DeepModem Mom]

40. Leilani, I was replying to post #31, not yours --

I understood you weren't criticizing FDR, or his accent -- and I agree with you about Bush's accent!

[Leilani]

44. Thanks Mom

I should have also stated, at least John Kerry speaks English.

I cannot figure out how a guy like Bush, who has had every advantage, educated at the finest schools, cannot form a proper sentence.

[molly]

42. My response to you

1. I am surprised at the reaction I caused. REALLY - you sought reaction - what did you expect?

2. Yes, I have been to the Northeast. Yes, I have been to Massachusetts. Yes, I have been to Boston. Yes I have been to Harvard. Many times. One of my best friends was even born and raised in the area. One thing I am absolutely sure of is that the way Kerry used to talk, and the way his wife does now talk, is not the way all Northeasterners talk--or even everyone from Mass., or everyone from Boston, or everyone from Harvard. The poster who described the accent in question as being upper-class prep school probably had it right. SO?

3. The poster who said that it is a class "thang" that I probably wouldn't understand, is probably right. I grew up in a dirt poor, single-parent home, in a little back-woods logging town in Oregon. A New England prep school accent is practically a foreign language to me. I guess this explains why I dislike the accent in question so instinctively--it seems to symbolize everything that was never part of my life, such as riches and privilege. REVERSE DISCRIMINATION?

4. My original concern, in asking this question, was about how genuine Kerry really is. YOUR ANALYSIS - PERHAPS BASED ON YOUR REPLY, YOU SHOULD REALIZE THAT NOT ALL PEOPLE OF MEANS ARE IN-HUMANE. TERESA HEINZ-KERRY IS A WOMAN OF COMPASSION AS WELL AS CLASS.

5. Contrary to some accusations, I did not run away from this thread. IF I WERE TO POST A THREAD OF SUCH PROPORTION - I WOULD CERTAINLY HOVER!

[NashVegas]

32. I Think You Exaggerate

I hear people with far thicker Boston accents around than John Kerry. Heck, Dean has more of a Vermont ("idear") than Kerry does Boston.

[DeepModem Mom]

37. Sorry, Crisco --

I've spent considerable time in both Manhattan, where Howard Dean grew up, and in Vermont, where he's spent most of his adult life, and I think his accent is New York rather than Vermont -- and also a bit upper class, as he grew up on Park Avenue and in the Hamptons. (He's an example of a guy from a privileged upbringing who's felt a responsibility to make the world a better place, through medicine, and politics.)

[caledesi]

52. Crisc, that is SO funy because I say "idear" all the time.

Yeah, from New England. My husband gets a good laugh and I get a good laugh from his Chicago accent.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

56. I say "idear"-and "rawregg" for "raw egg"

we put the "r's" where they aint, and drop them where they are.

[NashVegas]

68. Idears

My sister-in-law grew up in NJ, and even though she left that state as a 10 year old, STILL axes questions and tells us her idears.

When I put my (upstate NY-raised) clothes away in a dresser, they go into "draws" not "drawers." The weather is not humid, it's "yumid."

I heart regionalisms.

[October]

38. Sounds like heaven to me....

...especially when compared to Bush*s mangled dialect

To answer your question though, I've never noticed an "accent" in Mr. Kerry's speech -- certainly not the strong Kennedy/Boston sound -- but I never thought he sounded phoney or put-on either.

[caledesi]

39. Excuse me, but the accent you are describing is not fake.

I grew up in New England and this was the first place where the "King's English" was spoken (you know the colonies from ENGLAND). To this day, many people in NE still speak the "King's English."

There is no phoniness about it just like there is no phoniness to most Southern accents. Hey, it's what we grew up listening to.

Educate thyself and look at the derivation of accents in the US.

Edit: usual stuff

[JDPhD]

45. You, and many others, need to actually read my original post.

Let me boil it all down for you.

The accent that young John Kerry had in his Vietnam era clips is different from the accent he speaks with today.

The Vietnam era accent is not just a standard New England accent, but is charcteristic (I am told) of the East coast upper class/New England prep school/Harvard-Cambridge community. Perhaps his current accent is just a typical New England accent--but that is not how he spoke 30 years ago.

So, if Kerry's Vietnam era accent was his natural way of speaking--and merely indicative of his personal background--what has now happened to it? How did he get rid of it and why did he get rid of it? Conversely, if the accent he speaks with now is his merely his natural way of speaking, why did he choose to speak in an unnatural way back in his youth? This is what I am wondering about.

I am not calling all New Englanders phonies. I'm not even making that accusation against those who speak the way Kerry used to. It is not any particular accent that I find necessarily phonie, but the changing of a person's accent. I am asking for an explanation of why Kerry changed his accent. Why? Because that CHANGE may indicate some phoniness on his part.

My guess is that Kerry intentionally changed his accent to forward his political career. He didn't want to sound like a snob--or at least what common, work for a living people might think of as a snob.

[MaineDem]

47. He sounds the same to me

I just saw a clip from his testimony back in the 70s. I hear no difference.

Oh, by the way, welcome to DU. Looks like you're getting your feet wet pretty quickly.

[WiseMen]

49. Have you ever lived in more that one place over 60 years? Things change

over a lifetime.

Read Kerry bio and you will get an idea that it is unlikely that
he would sound exactly like the average citizen. It is also likely
that the accent of his youth would change over time as the non-average
elements rub off over a life.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

58. I posted something in the Lounge today-Boston accents have changed

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=785351#785717

"With all the transience these days, the language rule doesn't apply as much because the accents of the younger generations have softened due to college away from home, constant exposure to TV, etc."

Boston is a city of immigrants (1 in 3 residents were born elsewhere), and that has influenced speech patterns as well.

When I went to college in CT, I had to tone down my accent my professors could understand me.

[Uzybone]

50. I think your flailing wildly in the dark

His wife was raised in Africa...yet you think she has an American accent. So much for your ability to judge accents.

Your bottom line is that Kerry now doesn't sound like Kerry of 30 years ago, so therefore he is phony. Umm ok.

[molly]

54. If you were truly a JD - you would not even be questioning

this. You would have done your research and had all the answers - especially with your "credentials". My twin's sig other is Exetor - Princeton - Harvard JD magna cum - and he supports Kerry. He and I DO NOT agree on much of anything other than logical issues.

[AP]

63. Exeter-Princeton-Harvard? What kind of law? Corporate? Kerry supporter?

Interesting.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

55. "I am not calling all New Englanders phonies."

Maybe you aren't, but I bet you're dying to use the RW term "elitist". Because that is what all your defensive posting is implying.

Did you ever think he may have picked up some of Teresa's inflection? I have absorbed a lot of my husband's Italianisms and cadence, which are very different than the way my family speaks.

[KC21304]

64. Then he was just a kid, who had spent a great deal of time in Europe.

Now he is a 60 year old man who has been in the USA for 35yrs. What's to understand ? Why are you trying to make such a cumbersome argument out of nothing ? And you are the one who introduced the idea that possibly he was being phony.

[caledesi]

69. And Bush* didn't change his accent? Puhleeze.....

All hat, no cattle.

[blondeatlast]

48. I can't even believe this has gotten replies... nt.

[KC21304]

65. I think you have gotten it right.

Sometimes it takes some of us a little longer. LOL

[loupe-garou]

57. I come from Massachusetts, which has several accents----

I haven't lived there for 16 years, but I love to go back and hear the accents.....I have a friend in Cambridge who says idears, just like Kerry, and then leaves the r's out of words that really have them!!

I don't think it's fake and it really makes me homesick!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

60. Welcome to DU from a Cantabridgian!

:hi:

Boston is still beautiful-come back and visit!

[loupe-garou]

61. My heart is there -- too bad it's so expensive to live there!!!!

Some day I will return to eat my fill pf fried clams!!

[poskonig]

59. I haven't noticed anything special.

From the midwest, Kerry sounds slightly New Englandish to me, e.g. when he says "idear" for 'idea' (Dr. Dean did this a lot too). Other New Englanders are much worse -- "Ah gaht dah pahk ma cah befah we potty"

[loupe-garou]

62. It's a really hard accent to fake, too

I just went to see the movie "Mystic River" and there were some bad Boston accents--I've heard worse, though.

[CabalBuster]

66. maybe it has something to do with the the botox injections? n/t

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

67. What?

Am I the only sane one in this entire forum right now?

Since when has John Kerry had an "accent"?

[loupe-garou]

70. You should watch the PBS video "The Story of English

It explains the plethora of accents according to where different people from England settled in Mass. There are a LOT of different accents in UK too.....

[mot78]

71. It's more pronounced in his testimony about Vietnam than today

[Nicholas_J]

72. Considering the fact

That Kerry spent a considerable portion of his early years overseas as his father was in the foreign service in post WWII Europe, its likely he didnt get a New England accent and picked up a realtively flat accent.

The "idear" that frequently comes out of Kerry is a solid Middle American usage of the pronounciation, a bit reflecting a lot of contact with people from various regions in the country. I have yet to hear him say Warshington, but am waiting.

[tishaLA]

73. That accent was once quite common

but it is less so now. If you ever hear a recording of wealthy mid-Atlantic people from before the middle of the century, it is quite pronounced. Katherine Hepburn is a classic example of this, as is Wallace Stevens, who does not even sound American at all. People on Philadelphia's Main Line have these speech patterns (and Grace Kelley tried to mimic them, but anyone who knows anything about linguistics and the way rhotic pronunciation works sees through her immediately). Indeed, Ralph Feinnes had a perfect accent for a wealthy Mid-Atlantic man in Quiz Show--and Feinnes is British. He simply had to flatten out his accent a bit to make it work because the nearly-British accent is consistent with the speech patterns of that class in that era.

Someone like Kerry, who had grown up wealthy and had attended schools around other wealthy people, of course had that accent. In fact, even if he had lost it a bit in Vietnam, where he was around people of different classes and geographical backgrounds, he may have reverted to it in Washington as it constituted an "official discourse" for him.

So, whatever your credentials--certainly, as someone who is around intellectuals all day, you could have noticed that the intelligentsia's accents frequently belie their geographic origins, for example--you are wrong to say that Sen. Kerry possesses a "fake" accent that might be "pretentious" or disingenuous. If anything, I think the post itself is disingenuous.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

74. Right on, sistah! (as we say in Baaaahsten)

"I think the post itself is disingenuous."

You said it!

:yourock:

[bluedeminredstate]

75. It's not fake

Having grown up near there and having cousins all over Boston, there are many different accents just in the city of Boston. The accent my very old aunt speaks is kind of old-timey and you don't hear much of it anymore at all. Over time accents fade away and change - look at the Kennedy accent.
There are Beacon Hill accents, Southie accents, North (Noth) End accents and plenty of others and Kerry has got the Brahmin thing going along with a good dose of upper crust prep school. He's sixty - that was the way you did it back then. It's part British, mainly uptight Louisburg Square. I don't think it's affected. It's just who he is. I doubt the kids at Andover, Exeter and St. Paul's are doing the lock-jaw thing, but times have changed and so have accents. My husband thinks my mother, who says baaaath, is acting like she's Rose Kennedy, but she's from Boston and that's the way she says it.

:shrug: