The "Obama is reaching out" and "expanding the big tent" memes are BS

[cuke]

The people who went to see that gospel tour were black. They vote dem in numbers greater than 90%. I doubt if the dem party picked up one vote from the homophobic tour.

It had nothing to do with expanding the big tent. It was about getting blacks to vote for Obama and not some other dem

[SteppingRazor]

1. Yes that's exactly what it was about.

"getting blacks to vote for Obama and not some other dem."

Isn't that kinda the goal of a politician in the primary?

[cuke]

2. Yes, but

Obama and some of his supporters are not telling the truth about this. They deny it was about votes for Obama. They misportray it as "reaching out" to "create a bigger tent"

[SteppingRazor]

3. I completely see what you're saying.

But if politicians weren't allowed to sugar-coat their pandering for votes, there would be no politicians.

[cuke]

5. heh

You got me there

[MethuenProgressive]

35. No, it was about $$$$

Obama decided homophobes have more than homosexuals.

[BeyondGeography]

4. Oh, a McClurkin post, how soon-to-be quaint these are

As many predicted, McClurkipalooza is fast becoming the province of a hardy band of Obama-is-evil groupies.

Your reunion will be held in the Rezko Room next month.

Anti-Obama trivia for $200 please, Alex.

[cuke]

6. Actually, not at all about the McClurkin. It's about Obama

his supporters, and their BS rationalizations

[SteppingRazor]

7. Of course, to be fair, McClurkipalooza will be swiftly followed by Tipgate-o-rama.

:P

[BeyondGeography]

10. That's fair, count me out on tipgate

I will, however, be attending the Chinatown dishwasher reunion of HillHaters at Norman Hsu pavilion next month.

I'm only human, after all.

[jefferson_dem]

15. But...but...Bill's former Treasury Secretary endorsed Hillary...

And so did the Veep-seeking governor of Ohio.

If that won't convince you to jump on the Hill-wagon, I don't know what will.

[jefferson_dem]

14. Great post!

Their Obama-is-evil parroting points are boundless. Now...apparantly...he hates seniors and hippies too.

[BeyondGeography]

17. Well, he has purchased unusually large quantities of barbed wire for their internment

Then again, seniors and hippies, sounds a little redundant somehow...(evil Barack tells that joke all the time).

[cuke]

18. Keep putting up those straw men

The OP said nothing about seniors of hippies or evil

Maybe you'd like to explain how getting dems to vote for Obama makes the dems big tent larger?

[HuckleB]

36. LOL!

It's funny to stop by DU, and see all the juvenile, anti-Obama nonsense. My how this place has deteriorated.

[PurityOfEssence]

53. Apparently, the only place there aren't fairies is in your fantasyland

This is not going away. Much as people can pronounce an end to this, it's simply not going away. The handling of this little episode was beyond deplorable and it flies in the face of the very concept of inclusion.

There's an undeniable dynamic about gay rights which will see their acceptance be faster than most other groups and will also serve to plague Senator Obama as long as he tries to skate: GLBT people are everywhere; they come in all sizes, shapes, sexes, colors, religions, creeds, economic strata and any other category you want to name. As such, they can't really be conveniently penned in in some ghetto on the other side of the tracks, and now that the cat's out of the bag, so many straight people know so many non-straight people that it's personal.

He and his campaign totally screwed up. It's dirty pool. It was a cheap attempt to play the race and religion card simultaneously, and there were unintended consequences. The telling and sad part was that the consequences just didn't seem to really matter all that much to them, and the amelioration was flubbed dreadfully: bring in a gay preacher to say a few words and get out of the way, and make sure the gay guy's white. How EXTREMELY stupid. What kind of world do these people think they live in, a pre-radio one? Morality aside, this was just tactically lame. Not only does the incident make one question his sincerity, it makes one dismiss his pure political judgment.

It's not going away. Say it all you want, but it's not; it's not because it shouldn't and it's not because this kind of thing simply can't be contained. This is the Democratic Party, and this is the primary season; that's precisely when voices of the marginalized are heard the loudest.

Hope folks don't mind the wordplay with the slur in the title line, but it was just too good a joke to avoid...

[cuke]

54. I rarely agree with you, but that was spot on

Obama, and many of his supporters, just don't get it. For the most part, I don't think they're homophobic, and I certainly don't think that Obama is either, but that's irrelevant.

And in this case, I think the word play was more than appropriate. Quite fitting imo

[BeyondGeography]

55. Identity politics and single issue people are what is extremely stupid

and many gays realize this. Some of them are even my best friends (hah).

Wanna consider Obama the anti-Christ because of this one incident? Go ahead. Meantime, keep chanting it's not going away, it's not going away, it's not going away...

[PurityOfEssence]

57. Very few things happen from one cause

Human nature is a very mixed bag; many traits that "shouldn't" be simply are, and that's all there is to it. Some people are fixated on a single issue and extremely vehement about it. Get enough of these people dogging a candidate, and that candidate has a problem. Get most of these people doing it, and it's a more serious problem. It's an analog world.

Add to this a few other fixated groups, and the problems just multiply.

He's got big problems from the anti-religious crowd too, and they're because of his overt evocation of faith where many of us feel it's inappropriate. There are more of us than many would like to think, many who are believers themselves but who feel that religion doesn't belong in politics for various reasons.

He's got big problems with the people who want experience. He's got problems with the contrarians who always look askance at a fad candidate, much the way Dean was viewed.

He's got problems with racists; there are many more than most of us would like to think.

He's got problems with foreign policy extremists, since he's made some rather provocative and sloppy statements about nuclear power, Pakistan and the like.

He's got problems with people for not taking responsibility for the "actions of his staffers" early in the primary season.

This is not insurmountable, but it's a hell of a lot of chess playing to do.

Then again, the other two top-polling (for the moment) candidates have all sorts of issues and various fanatics on their respective cases, too.

Obama's problem is that he's got some serious problems with a few rather serious contingencies, and some of those groups are rather tenacious. The McClurkin issue was horrendously bungled at numerous junctures, and to his detractors on this subject, it's not the least bit closed; to them (including me) it's an open wound. Time has increased this to the degree that it gets nigh impossible for him to resolve it to his advantage: he would have to go so far in the retraction that it would draw quite a bit of unwanted attention in the process. He won't do that because he is still courting the gospel crowd in South Carolina. Thus, he does it by half-measures, which helps nothing and hurts him a little bit more with the homophobic elements of his crowds.

Single-issue voters aren't important? That's ridiculous. If it hadn't been for the haters coming out in force against gay marriage in '04, the election never would have been close enough for Bush to steal.

[blm]

8. And getting people to vote for a Dem who believes in OPEN GOVERNMENT

accountable to the people should be the best way to expand the party....

instead, those who have long protected the secrecy and privilege of the powerful elite are shrinking our party by pushing away the anti-corruption, open government Democrats.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

[cuke]

9. You left out the part about appealing to homophobes by giving one a mic

and lying about it

[blm]

11. I was replying to your concern about expansion and shrinkage of the party.

If you see no danger in continuing the protection of BushInc you are welcome to say so.

[cuke]

12. So that's what you think my OP was about?

Take ESL

[blm]

16. You mean you were FEIGNING concern for Dem party to take a shot at Obama?

Oops - excuse me. I must have missed that bottle of Feign-Feign in your typing hand.

I thought you might have actually been concerned about the idea of party expansion being a meme instead of an HONEST concern. So, I was voicing MY concern for the open government Democrats that are being pushed out of the party by those who side with the secrecy and privilege of closed government.

[cuke]

19. No, I was pointing to the misleading rationalization BO and his supporters are using

What Obama did had NOTHING to do with expanding the party, a point you will never respond to.

[blm]

21. I don't like the meme used by his campaign, nor do I like the ACTUAL

shrinkage of the party by those pushing away the anti-corruption, open government Democrats by siding with secrecy and privilege of closed government.

[cuke]

24. I agree, but that's a different issue

[incapsulated]

20. I don't see any "feigned concern"

Cuke was basically saying, bullshit on this meme. Nothing about the Party. Of course it was a "shot at Obama". He is saying he is full of it on this issue.

I never for a moment thought this was about anything other than trying to wrest black votes from Hillary, myself. Of course, Obama can't say that.

[cuke]

25. Thank you

You completely understand what I was getting at.

[Lucinda]

13. Of course its BS. The tent isn't getting bigger, its the numbers INSIDE that are shrinking.

:)

[Hawkowl]

22. Obama is clumsy not evil

Look. How many of these DU posters ever been to a black gospel church service? They are absolutely wonderful in their stunning spectacle and sheer enthusiasm (And I'm not even Christian). However, there is a large segment of the religious, church going black folk, that are profoundly morally conservative. Especially when it comes to Gay issues. They can't bring themselves to vote republican, but they sure aren't going to hell to vote for some morally bankrupt liberal.

Hillary is doing very well among black voters and Obama saw a way to distinguish himself and perhaps cut into her constituency that he views as his. He wanted the conservative, gospel singing black vote. His mistake was not controlling the stage and vetting his supporters.I think the results were predictable and that Hillary has outmaneuvered him by capitalizing on his novice blunders. There will be more blunders--because he is a clumsy optimist who underestimates his opponents.

[NMMNG]

23. I think the performers were very much vetted

I think it was no accident that http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2007/10/26/obama-gospel-tour-homophobes-4-undecided-2-draw-1/">five of the people on that stage were blatant homophobes. There's just no way for that to happen by chance.

[ellacott]

26. It is if they're gospel performers n/t

[NMMNG]

29. So you're suggesting that all gospel performers are homophobes?

:popcorn:

[ellacott]

30. Where did I say all? You've got to stop with that

It was not a suggestion, an intimation or anything else.

I said what I meant.
:popcorn:

[NMMNG]

31. So what exactly did you mean then?

Just so I don't get accused of anything untoward.

[ellacott]

32. I said what I meant

Why would you be surprised that the majority of gospel performers present had that opinion?

[NMMNG]

33. Maybe because when I went to church and listened to religious music

Gay bashing wasn't the core of the message. In fact, I don't recall homosexuality being mentioned at all. None of my churches were obsessed the way some seem to be.

[ellacott]

34. I grew up in the Black Gospel environment

and it was frequently mentioned. Everyone didn't gay bash but the majority didn't agree with it. Even the gay gospel singers repeated those beliefs publically.

[NMMNG]

37. "The majority didn't agree with it"

That's gay bashing. Because it's done in a church environment doesn't make it anything less. It's bigotry.


Just imagine the furor if people said they "didn't agree with" people who were black, Hispanic, female, etc.

[cuke]

38. The majority, not ALL

You asked if she was saying that ALL gospel singers are homophobes. The answer is no, not ALL, just MOST

My experiences suggest it's a majority opinion, but most are not consumed by it the way the white repuke fundies are. They don't get angry about it. They think it's wrong, and it gives them the creeps, but they don't get all wigged out about it and tend to be civil with individual GLBT's. They are also more focused on forgiveness than retribution.

[ellacott]

40. That's what I meant

Thank you.

[NMMNG]

41. Forgiveness?

For what? We haven't done anything wrong! I'm sick and tired of this notion that being gay is something "sinful", evil and wrong. I'm tired of being compared to thieves and murderers. And I'm damn tired of people who try to defend the people who do it because it's their "deeply held religious beliefs". There are plenty of LGBT people who have been seriously harmed and even killed because of such people's "deeply held religious beliefs". There is no justification for bigotry and hatred, including religion.

[cuke]

43. I was referring to homophobes

so of course they're wrong to think you've done something wrong by being GLBT. Where did you get the idea that I was justifying anything. I was EXPLAINING what I saw and observed. I never AGREED with it.

[NMMNG]

50. I apologize if my rant seemed aimed at you

But there have been countless people here on DU trying to justify those who hate GLBT people in the name of their "deeply held religious beliefs", or "because that's what they were taught" or some other such nonsense. It gets very frustrating after a while. And believe me, I've heard all of the explanations. Love the sinner, hate the sin, we're doing this for your own good, being gay is OK, but acting gay isn't, and so on, and so on. Sometimes I just want to :banghead:

[cuke]

51. No problem

It's not hard to get one's lines crossed on DU. I understand your frustration, and it doesn't help to see DUers agreeing with some of the bigotry or trying to justify it. This place amazes me sometimes

[ellacott]

46. Explaining and defending are very different n/t

[ellacott]

39. How do you know that?

You will also find out that there is a different standard applied as to what gay bashing is. Right or wrong it's a sad reality.

As quiet as it's kept there are many churches that "don't agree" with blacks and hispanics. There is no furor. People just don't go to those churches.

[NMMNG]

42. Obviously there is a different standard

To some, it isn't gay bashing to cause severe psychological and emotional--or even physical harm--to LGBT people. To them it's just doing God's work.

But to me it is. And to many other LGBT people it is.

[ellacott]

44. And to many non LGBT

Including some in the gospel community.

[cuke]

45. I understand your point

but here in NYC, when there was a wave of beatings of gay men, "gay bashing" referred to actual physical violence, and not hate speech. In fact, that was how I first became familiar with the term - as something that describe an actual beating

[ellacott]

47. I'm sorry to hear about that

My good friend was severely beaten by a group of men when he was younger.

[cuke]

48. One of my friends had his jaw broken, amongst other things

for giving two guys head. They got off, then they beat him.

The other night I was watching Taxicab Confessions. It's a reality show where a cabbie has cameras in the taxi and they record the conversations they have with their passengers. One passenger described seeing an old friend who offered to give him a ride. While they were talking, the old friend asked about girlfriends, so he said "You don't know? I'm gay". The friend then choked him until he passed out. When he woke up he was being raped and now has to take laxatives every day just so he can go to the bathroom.

I just don't get it, Why SO MUCH HATE?

[ellacott]

49. That is awful

I don't get it either.

[Chovexani]

52. That is bullshit

Yes, there are many gospel singers who like to talk shit about GLBT, and then go home to their same-sex lovers in the hotel room.

There are many more who don't speak about it at all, and do wtf they're called to do, which is sing praises to their Lord.

[ellacott]

59. That's what I said

I didn't say all but I'm not surprised to find those that feel that way in the gospel community.

Yall reading what you want to read.

[cuke]

27. Excellent post

I don't think Obama is evil. "Naive and inexperienced" is more like it :-)

And yes, black church services are incredible. Even in the smallest of churches, the enthusiasm, devotion, and warmth is mind blowing for someone with as secular a childhood as I had.

[ellacott]

28. I agree with your assessment n/t

[calteacherguy]

56. Racist OP. nt

[cuke]

58. Care to back that up?

Or should I just get that post deleted

[MethuenProgressive]

60. So, if you're not "for the black guy" you're a racist now according to "calteacherguy"?

I hope they're not letting you actually teach children.

[cuke]

61. No, it's even more ridiculous than that

In another thread he explains it's because my OP "singles out blacks" while talking about the tour, so I explained that it's because the tour was singling out blacks. Then I asked him why Obama singled out black gospel singers for the tour and if that meant that Obama was racist?

I'm still waiting for the answer

[MethuenProgressive]

62. He'll be starting more anti-everybodywhoisn'tlikeme threads before he gets back to this one

You can count on that.

[ProSense]

63. Hasn't this been covered over and over and over and over?

Aren't you being a tad hypocritical?