Thank you Ralph Nader

[mikehiggins]

Yeah, I know some of you folks are heating up the oil and plucking all the chickens you can find but listen up a minute.

Without Ralph Nader in 2000 WE NEVER WOULD HAVE KNOWN.

Sure, lots of us would have suspected but the rest would happily issue us all tinfoil hats and leave us to dark corners of cyberspace inhabited by Area-51 believers, and the folks who are faithfully waiting for Atlantis to rise.

Ralph, through his bungling, egotistical stagger (you really can't call it a race) towards obscurity, did something no one else could ever have done. He pulled DOWN the curtain and let the light shine in on things most people never, ever believed possible in this country.

He exposed the man behind the curtain.

Consider if he had not. Consider if that village had not given up their idiot and we had not learned just how far PNAC and the right wing really are willing to go.

Sooner or later they would have come to power, and the later it happened, the more powerful and untouchable they would have become. Even now it will be a close thing to pry them free of their leechlike hold on power, but it can still be done.

Had Nader not run in 2000 there would have been no Dean, no Clark, no Kuchinich campaigns. No spinal transplant for the Democratic Party, none of it.

We have a chance now to save our nation and fight those people who want to make it into a real life version of the Soylent Green dystopia. We may not succeed but without Nader2000 the odds would be even worse against us.

So, thank you so very much, Ralph Nader.

Now, if you don't mind, get lost and let us get about the business of saving America for our children's future, and the world's.

[wryter2000]

1. Nader didn' t have anything to do with it.

I'm not one who thinks that Nader caused Bush to get elected, but Nader didn't do anything to expose Bush. Bush et al did that. And he had nothing to do with the spine transplant. Dr. Dean did that.

[mikehiggins]

5. Yes and no

I disagree about Nader in Florida. Without him running there is very little liklihood this would have gone to the SCOTUS in the first place. Most of those votes would have gone for Gore and there would have been no need for a recount.

Certainly, Nader didn't do anything to expose Bush, except by accident. That was Bush's doing but without Florida he would never have had the chance. There might have been a whole other can of worms opened if Gore had been in the White House on 9/11 but it would not have been the one we're enduring now.

And while Dr. Dean performed the spinal transplant, without Nader he never would have been invited into the operating theatre.

Nope, its Ralph, Ralph, Ralph
Yer a better man than I am, Gungha Ralph
(now, go away Ralph)

[Auntie Bush]

6. Right...DEAN woke up the Democrat party

They were sound asleep when Nader ran. That's why Bush won. We were still rubbing our eyes when Dean stuck us with a pin. YEEEEAAAAARH!
Thank You Dr. Dean!!! We are eternally grateful.

Please Nader Please...Please stay the hell out.

[mhr]

2. Thanks Ralph For Keeping The Democratic Party Honest And Exposing The

DLC for the republicans that they are.

[Rooktoven]

32. Thanks Ralph for Nothing and giving us the tyranny

of the worst president in our history. I hope Nader gets too ill to rib for the next year.

[papau]

3. Last Time the GOP financed Nader - Guess they cut the check today

Why can't hero's remain hero's - rather than getting few dollars for retirement?

[EXE619K]

4. This is true.

Speaking as a non-Dem...

Instead of trying to "blame it on the Nader/Greens",

Maybe, the Democratic Party should ACTIVELY try to bridge the gap between the two.

Believe it or not, in 2000, there were many Greens that voted for Gore to prevent the Bush election.

A lot of them will do the same this year.

Why not throw them a bone once in a while(like San Francisco).

Return the favor.

[FreakinDJ]

7. posted at Free Republic

To: steplock
perhaps some of us should hit the democrat forums and convince the people there to vote for Nader when the presidential race starts. Encourage the far left dems that haven't made up their mind to vote for him so we can split their vote.

48 posted on 08/11/2003 9:02:43 AM PDT by Johnbalaya
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies >

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/961974/posts

[NV1962]

9. They're doing that IRL too

I tried to point that out here, but so far there aren't many takers...

It looks as if fear of alienation by discussing real issues is greater than commitment to principles. Calls to "party unity" notwithstanding... It's like inviting to rally behind a banner without much more than "ABB."

Shameful, this.

[Gadave]

16. Yeah everone who disagrees is a personal friend of Carl Rove

It's tiring when people bring out the my thing is longer than yours so you arent a real Democrat angle. The party is getting what it probably deserves with Nader (who I personally think is a nutcase).

I will vote for Kerry as the nominee, because I am not a protest voter. But the Kerry supporters should not be surprised that there are supporters of several candidates who are fed up with sleezy good old boy network DNC and the politics of selecting a candidate for our own good.

I am voting for Edwards a week from Tuesday, and that makes me very happy.

[damnraddem]

8. You know how good it feels when you stop knocking ...

your head against the wall? Why, you'd never have found that out if you hadn't knocked your head against the wall.

Same logic.

Nader has the right to run. Third parties have a right to exist and put up candidates. But we don't have to like the outcome of 2000; and we certainly need to avoid that in 2004.

ABB! That means Anybody who can win But Bush.

[library_max]

10. Just so it's clear.

You're thanking Nader for the invasion of Iraq, the record deficits, the PATRIOT ACT, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Bush's judicial appointments, et al. That's a mighty high price for a glimpse of "the man behind the curtain." And if the world-domination right had come into power later rather than sooner, it probably wouldn't have received the huge political gift of 9/11.

[GreenInNC]

11. Getting Democrats to vote for Democrats

Maybe you should concentrate on the 10 MILLION Democrats who voted for Bush instead of the 3 MILLION voters from all parties that voted for Nader.

Gore campaigned so poorly he couldn't even win his own state.

[ShaneGR]

14. Just so you know, Ralph isn't a Green

So you don't have to jump to his defense anymore. In fact, the leadership of the Green Party made the decision to distance themselves from Nader because they know what is at stake in the upcoming election.

Kudos to them. I understand the purpose of the Green Party, but they understood that possibly electing GWB to a second term was not in theirs or anyone elses interest.

[GreenInNC]

26. Ralph not a Green

I know Ralph is not a Green, I am on the national coordinating committee and the national campaign committee of the party. He has said that he does not want our nomination. I was only pointing out that the Democratic Party should spend a little less time obsessing about us and spend more time getting their own people to vote for their nominee.

[library_max]

22. 10 MILLION Democrats

(and by the way, kudos on your effective use of all-caps)

who voted for Bush weren't Democrats just because they were registered that way. Here in Texas, for example, there are many areas where Republicans don't run candidates in local races. If you want to vote in mayoral or city council races, you have to register Democrat, even if you are the Republicaniest Republican who ever walked (and they get downright Republicany down here, believe me).

As for Tennessee, it's a Republican state. Went for Nixon twice, Reagan twice, and Bush-the-elder in '88. We won't win Tennessee in 2004 either, no matter who the nominee is. This "favorite son" thing isn't as effective as it used to be. Gore did win the popular vote and (by Florida state law) Florida and therefore the election - that's how lousy his campaign was.

The Scalia five stole the election, but Florida Nader voters left the door unlocked and the keys in the ignition. If even 10% of them had voted for Gore instead, it'd be President Gore.

[GreenInNC]

27. '92 and '96

Clinton won Tn in '92 and '96, why couldn't Gore keep up the streak?

[Rooktoven]

33. Because in part he was screwed by an arrogant jerk

(Nader) and his moron followers who thought that Bush and Gore were morally the same.

Al Gore _could_ have run a better campaign. So could Bush. For Nader to act like it isn't his fault is the height of dishonesty. This was never about America. It was about Nader. So it looks like it shall be again. A pox on Nader.

[GreenInNC]

38. Tn=Tennessee

Nader had absolutely nothing to do with Gore losing Tn.

[ShaneGR]

12. OMG, greatest post ever

I love the last line.

[Gadave]

13. Ralph Wigum?

I mean Nader. The fact is if we dems keep selecting the Kerry's and Gore's of the world as out nominees, this will happen over and over again.

If you take the "electability" argument and settle for canned beans because they at least they won't do any harm, you are going to get these challenges. The people want steak this time. I bet this is part of the equation the "electabiliacs" didn't count on.

As a former Dean supporter, I must say the electability argument was a foolish one to bring up and i hope it bites the Kerry camp in the the fatty back side. Edwards is by far more electable, and with the Wisconsin surprise combined with say an Ohio and Georgia win, could spell disaster for Kerry.

Think of it this way, in all probability, Edwards would win all the states Kerry would, but Edwards has an appeal that's very popular with moderates.

After getting my belly filled with J. Kerry, its hard for me to be mad at Nader this time.

[TheWebHead]

15. If nader...

goes through the process and at the last minute withdraws and backs Kerry, this would be a brilliant move... esp. if the Green's don't run a candidate with Nader in. But given Nader's ego, and the suspicious amount of time he's been a guest on Faux News -- including being the only politically left guest to every appear on Cal Thomas' Saturday show, I don't think that will happen.

[Gadave]

20. Of course another conspiracy!!! Brilliant observation

Yeah Ralph Nader is in with Fox News, who with the help of the Burgermasters and the Tri Lateral Commission will conspire to attract liberal voters and donations. After using the liberal voters to unwittingly make calls in suppport of Geroge Bush, the money will be sent through the Golden Pipeline to a mole in DLC who is actually a Grand Wizard of the Super Secret Inner Circle of Imperial Red Dragons of the Klu Klux Klan, who with the aid of the John Birch Society will use the money to fund a car wash in downtown detroit which is actually a cover for an RNC operative who is secretely bugging the Michigan office of John Kerry.

Why is everything a conspiracy? Why can't it be that some Dems are fed up with the politics as usual? I dislike Nader for many reasons, but the guy is not part of a Republican or Fox conspiracy.

[Rooktoven]

34. He _is_ part of a conspiracy.

But his hubris blinds him to the fact that he is a foolish tool.

[RummyTheDummy]

17. Nader is merely a massive ego in a cheap suit....

And someone who enjoys doing his part to help * get another four years. He goes about it gleefully.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

18. Actually Jonathon Turley argued the Area 51 case...can we leave that out

of it?

[mzmolly]

19. I disagree. Nader had nada to do with Dean. Democrats like Dean

Wellstone, Feingold, Kennedy, etc... ALL existed before Nader ran in 2000.

[ozone_man]

25. That's right mzmolly.

This DLC business has been brewing for a long time and PNAC is just the Republican version of the DLC version "Progressive Internationalism". Nader is just an outspoken left wing politician who is not afraid to point this out. Dean is a centrist who was also not afraid to point this out, and was assassinated for it.

[mzmolly]

31. I totally agree. There are many many Dems who do so...

But the media doesn't generally give them a voice.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NV1962]

24. That's the 3rd time you post that - and still you don't address

this. - too hot an issue, or simply yellow?

[absyntheNsugar]

23. HA HA I love it!

Let's just hope the element of sarcasm isn't lost on everyone...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. Chimp was an idiot from the get-go.

My opinions of Nader notwithstanding.

[Crunchy Frog]

29. Thanks Mike for making me feel

just a little bit better about my 2000 Nader vote.:spank:

[Rooktoven]

35. You shouldn't feel better.

The implication is we needed things to go to hell in order for people to point out that things are going to hell. We wouldn't be as bad off now, compared to leadership under Gore, had people not voted for Nader.

I'm sorry, you may have had good intentions, but a vote for Nader was a vote for Bush, and those casting those votes bear responsibility for Bush's wrongs. I'll spare you the litany of those wrongs, because I think you can figure them out on your own.

[Crunchy Frog]

36. I know that, and I already feel

much worse about it than you could ever make me feel with any of you're self riteous scolding. I was being a little tongue in cheek. With all this Nader talk lately I have been feeling extremely guilty, I know now that it was the wrong thing to do. FWIW, I live in a state where my vote for Gore would have done nothing to help him, but it was still wrong.

Now please just lay off. I am not proud of that vote and I've already said my apology piece in another thread.

[waldenx]

30. finally an original bash

thanks for the effort because 5000 threads of the same shit is getting old.

[Blue_Roses]

37. thank-you for this post

it made my night...