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Edwards: A 'preventative war doctrine' is 'ridiculous...dangerous'

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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:52 AM
Original message
Edwards: A 'preventative war doctrine' is 'ridiculous...dangerous'
Edited on Mon Nov-05-07 11:55 AM by JohnLocke
Edwards: A 'preventative war doctrine' is 'ridiculous..dangerous'

(...)

Less noticed in the stories so far about the speech Edwards plans to give in Iowa City are his remarks about the nuclear crisis with Iran and what he calls the Bush-Cheney era "preventative war doctrine." Here are a few excerpts from his planned remarks, which Edwards' campaign aides have sent to reporters:

After 9/11, instead of focusing on the terrorist threat, George Bush started promoting a radical new neoconservative doctrine he called, quote, "preventive war," -- which would soon become part of his argument for war in Iraq. ...

But there is a difference between doing everything in our power to keep America safe and a reckless, belligerent policy that actually makes us less safe. The preventive war doctrine was a stunning departure from the policy that had kept America safe during both world wars and during the Cold War. It is wrong on the merits, wrong on the morals, and wrong for America. ...

Think about it -- you don't prevent wars by starting them. It would be ridiculous if it weren't so dangerous. ...

George Bush, Dick Cheney, and the neocon warmongers used 9/11 to start a war with Iraq and now they're trying to use Iraq to start a war with Iran. And we have to stop them. ...

As a nation, we stand today at a fork in the road with Iran. We have a real choice about the direction we'll take. One path will replay the last seven years. It leads toward a dark future of belligerence, aggression, and war. ...

We need a new direction-one that will defuse the Iran threat, rather than aggravate it, one that will make America safer, not make the world more dangerous. ...


Edwards' aides say that when it comes to Iran, he will make the case that the U.S. should:

• End the "preventive war" doctrine.
• Use bolder and more targeted economic sanctions.
• Reengage with Iran.
• Reengage with other major nations on the challenge of Iran.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/11/edwards-a-preve.html
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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. First R&K of many ...
Edwards 2008! :bounce:
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maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. maybe Johnny could call this newfangled theory
"strength through peace."

Next he'll decide to scrap his convoluted health care plan in favor of a single payer plan.
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penguin7 Donating Member (962 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why did Edwards claim Iraq had WMDs in 2002-03?
He was on the Senate Intelligence Committee.
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Auggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. Taking a page from Kooch. But I approve.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. And illegal -- how about we talk about illegal, too? I like John and it would
be great if he would carry this message.

Ben Ferencz - a lawyer at Nuremburg writes:

The Rule of Law -The Crime of Aggression

One of the Einsatzgruppen (EG) commanders was being held in Nuremberg as a potential witness in the IMT trial. Whitney Harris had interviewed him. He became the lead defendant in the new EG case. SS General Dr. Otto Ohlendorf, father of five children, a handsome man, was one of the smartest and outspoken of the accused. He had admitted that his unit killed about 60000 Jews, but he quibbled about the precise number since sometimes his men bragged about the body count. Imagine, bragging that you murdered more than you actually killed! None of the mass murderers showed any remorse whatsoever. Ohlendorf was asked to explain why they had killed all the Jews. Most defendants argued that they were only obeying superior orders. Ohlendorf was much more honest. He said it was necessary in self-defense. Self-defense? Where do you come up with self-defense? Germany attacked all of its neighbors. "Ah, yes", he explained, " we knew that the Soviet Union planned to attack us. And therefore, it was necessary for us to attack them first." (These days we call it "preemption.") "And why did you kill all of the Jews? " "Well, we knew that the Jews were sympathetic to the Bolsheviks, everybody knows that, so, we had to get rid of them too." Question: "And why did you kill thousands of little children? "Well, if they grew up and learned that we had eliminated their parents, they would become enemies of the Reich. So, of course we had to take care of them too. It sounded so natural and logical - to the mass murderer.

It was not persuasive to the three American judges. They carefully considered the doctrine of preemptive self-defense, or anticipatory self-defense, They held, unanimously, that it was not a valid defense that could justify the crimes. If everyone felt they could go out and attack their neighbor, and also kill their children and other perceived enemies, what kind of a world would we have? It was an echo of Justice Jackson's famous phrase that has been quoted here, about not passing the Germans "a poisoned chalice" lest we put it to our own lips as well. Law must apply equally to everyone. Telford Taylor made the closing statement, saying to accept peremptory self-defense as a justification for murder would be as if to say that a man who breaks into a house can then shoot the owner in presumed self-defense. Those who made that argument were found guilty and were hanged. I was a young man then, and it was clear to me that those innocent souls who were slaughtered by these Nazi extermination squads were killed because they did not share the race, or the religion, or the ideology of their executioners. I thought then that such thinking was pretty terrible. I still think it's pretty terrible today. Of course it affects my judgment when I come to consider the view from the US.

http://www.benferencz.org/arts/89.html
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm sorry, but this is just another "was for it before I was against it" quote....
Edited on Mon Nov-05-07 01:27 PM by FrenchieCat
And his new quote jutapoxed alongside his old quotes will make John Edwards combustible as our nominee!


"The path of confronting Saddam is full of hazards. But the path of inaction is far more dangerous. This week, a week where we remember the sacrifice of thousands of innocent Americans made on 9-11, the choice could not be starker. Had we known that such attacks were imminent, we surely would have used every means at our disposal to prevent them and take out the plotters. We cannot wait for such a terrible event -- or, if weapons of mass destruction are used, one far worse -- to address the clear and present danger posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq."
Senator John Edwards (Democrat, North Carolina)
US Senate floor statement: "Iraqi Dictator Must Go"


http://web.archive.org/web/20030219152335/edwards.senate.gov/press/2002/0912a-pr.html


"We must also remember why disarming Saddam is critical to American security – because halting the spread of weapons of mass destruction, and ensuring they don't fall into the wrong hands, including terrorist hands, is critical to American security. --John Edwards


http://www.cfr.org/publication/5441/americas_role_in_the_world.html?breadcrumb=%2Fbios%2F9641%2Fjohn_edwards%3Fgroupby%3D3%26hide%3D1%26id%3D9641%26filter%3D2002

and there are so many other quotes from John Edwards in this vein....made even after it was made public that Iraq had no WMDs.


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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. "we couldn't let those on the Security Council hold us hostage"
Edited on Mon Nov-05-07 01:55 PM by GreenArrow
"We were right to go in", even without the Europeans behind us. The President was right to say, "we're going anyway", and John Edwards was there to say: " I stand by my support of that, yes," and "yes", I believe in that. Nevermind of course, that what he was supporting and believing in was "preventive war" which is apparently okay, so long as it's not codified as a doctrine.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3131295/

(Edited to add link)
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
6. Does he mention that he believed this crap in 2004?
Thanks for speaking up when your vote doesn't count, John.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. The quote is to help HIM to get votes now.......
Edited on Mon Nov-05-07 01:48 PM by FrenchieCat
never mind what he used to believe before what he believes now!

In other words, John Edwards believed in the "ridiculous" notion before he denounced the same "ridiculous" notion! But then, this is the man who uses the slogan, "tomorrow starts today"....or is it, "today starts tomorrow"? I don't know which.....but obviously, "yesterday" has nothing to do with anything as far as he is concerned. :eyes:

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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Tomorrow begins today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1etlZaf6zUw

Thanks for kicking my thread. :)
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. ?
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. I support Edwards, but he loses all credibility when he pretends he didn't support the Iraq war.
Unfortunately, many voters have no idea that he voted for the war, so I guess it won't hurt him much.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. if he insists on getting all smug and self-righteous about it,
as he is, then he needn't be surprised when his opponents start highlighting his numerous position shifts, on Iraq and elsewhere.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well I hope that he will be ready to face that music when it is played....
because it will be played....and in fact, the lack of that knowledge by many voters will hurt him more than if they had known all along once they find out! Let's just say that it won't be pretty.
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Tejanocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-05-07 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. k & r
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. K & R....
:kick:
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Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-06-07 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
17. k & r
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