11/04/07: 2nd Tier Straw Poll

[Colobo]

Please pick you favorite!

[LWolf]

1. Why do you keep posting polls that exclude some candidates? n/t

[Colobo]

2. Which one is missing? I divide the polls between first and second tier

because it think the division is significant. It makes it easier to see where DU truly stands on.

[FREEWILL56]

7. I see LWolf's point.

It might actually be best to show all and give the choice from all to get the better perspective rather than for you to predispose of who is or is not 1st tier let alone to know if the spread is far or not.

[LWolf]

8. When many democrats

do not support the media and $$$ driven annointing of the "top tier," when people who pay attention know the circular relationship between $$, media, name recognition, and outside poll numbers,

I don't think it's appropriate to feed that corrupt system of ranking.

It's a matter of integrity, imo.

When there are many voters who will not vote for the "top tier" should they win the nomination, it's also misleading to pretend that narrowing the field forces non-existent support.

Some Democrats will be forced into voting for a nominee they think is bad for the country out of party loyalty. Not all. Some will do so because of the "lesser evil" logic. Not all.

Some Democrats, and large numbers of independents, won't be forced.

It's a self-defeating effort. Again, imo.

If you really want to know where DU stands, accurately, you have only to see the polls posted by bobthedrummer every few days that includes all declared candidates, and no one that has not declared.

It's clear and consistent. DU prefers Kucinich and Edwards to the rest.

Anything else is a push poll designed to make some on the top tier look like they have stronger support than they do.

[Colobo]

9. Notice who's winning here so far.

Not Dennis. Biden.

That wasn't reflected in the other polls.

[LWolf]

10. Which doesn't negate the point.

In a poll which presents people with everyone who will be on their primary ballot, it's not Biden.

Biden is certainly preferable to some of the top tier, but if people who won't be voting for him in the primary are voting for him in the poll, it kind of negates the whole point of polling, wouldn't you say?

Of course a poll of 39 people, which doesn't include at least one who's read the poll (me), doesn't exactly trump a poll of hundreds, and even a thousand, DUers, does it?

[Froward69]

11. I like this, it seems to give us a chance

to vote for who SHOULD be in the top tier.

[LWolf]

14. Except that this isn't an accurate count.

If I could vote for who SHOULD be in the top tier, I'd vote for more than one on this list.

In this case, HRC, Obama, and Edwards supporters can show up and vote for one of the 2nd tier candidates that they have not been voting for in polls that include all candidates, falsely inflating their numbers. Then when you take just one of them back to poll against the top tier, those numbers disappear when they all go back to top tier candidates.

Thus reinforcing the "tier structure."

If you really wanted to know where DU stands, you'd include all of them. In every poll I've seen, HRC and Obama poll well below the "top" at DU, which is probably the point; an effort to manipulate those results.

Biden's support is growing steadily. He doesn't need this to outperform some of the "top" here at DU.

[Colobo]

17. I'm glad you like it.

[bobthedrummer]

3. Who is "Joe Bien"-your tiers are subjective--either list all announced candidates or forget it.

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST-IMPEACH CHENEY NOW!

[Colobo]

4. Relax. It's just a poll.

[bobthedrummer]

5. I do, in a leather recliner made by Laz Z Boy- but who is Joe Bien?

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST-IMPEACH CHENEY NOW!

[Colobo]

6. It's been fixed! Thanks. The candidate who is winning by 6pm

will be declared the winner and faced against the winner of the Top Tier poll.

[LWolf]

12. That's an interesting plan.

Let's see:

If Edwards, HRC, and Obama supporters can be convinced to vote in this poll for someone who is not Kucinich, the "2nd tier" who keeps soundly beating HRC and Obama,then he won't be on your final poll.

When all the HRC, Obama, and Edwards voters who "pushed" the lower tier candidate can go back to their first choice, leaving that lower tier in the dust.

Certainly a clever strategy, but not exactly accurate or honest.

[gateley]

13. Biden. As a result of the media coverage he received on the Giuliani one-liner,

he's appeared on peoples' radar and they're giving him a second look.

Edit to add: Hi, Katz -- this is interesting! Thanks!! :hi:

[gateley]

15. Katz didn't decree who's First Tier - the media and money did, and as a result,

the top three at this point are the most recognized.

It think a poll like this is a very realistic way of looking at it. It will probably give a more accurate reading than the polls where ALL candidates are presented.

And as he said, relax -- it's just a poll. And on DU, to boot!

[Debi]

16. Tier-ist

x(

[bigwillq]

22. HA!

LOL! :rofl:

[CyberPieHole]

18. OP doesn't like the fact that Obama doesn't "win" DU polls...

so he resorts to playing with polls in a feeble attempt at getting the result he desires. Disingenuous.

[Colobo]

19. Thanks for voting. Biden wins.

[Alexander]

20. Kucinich by a hair

Only because I know he can't be bought.

[bigwillq]

21. DK!

:bounce: