Obama spews republican propoganda: says Clinton feels she is owed presidency, had long-term plans

[Herman Munster]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/us/politics/04dems.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin

“She’s also a skilled politician, and she’s run what Washington would call a textbook campaign, but the problem is the textbook itself,” Mr. Obama said. “It’s a textbook that’s all about winning elections but says nothing about how to bring the country together to solve problems.”

Later, he added: “I am not running for this office to fulfill any long-held plans or because I believe it is somehow owed to me.”

[Captain Hilts]

1. Right now, Biden's the only one running against the R's. So, he's got my vote. nt

[Tellurian]

41. Not true. Hillary has been bashing Bush for months now..

Haven't you heard the complaints, "she's running the general?"

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Hey, it's called "campaigning."

How is that the same as Republican propaganda? Or can't Hilly take the heat?

[illinoisprogressive]

3. then I guess all her Democratic non supporter are spewing too. okay?

[Forkboy]

4. Do you own a mirror?

If so, take a good look into it and get back to us.

[rodeodance]

5. well, this is old stuff------spewed for years

[KittyWampus]

6. IMO, both Clintons did little to nothing to help Kerry or back him up. Because they wanted 08

for HIllary.

[Lucinda]

8. Bill campaigned for Kerry - even after his heart surgery

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6328991/

[karynnj]

44. He did campaign for Kerry

I doubt that he consciously wanted Kerry to lose, but there are some pretty inexplicable things that he did - the two that come to mind first are:

1) Putting out his book in July 2004 - He could not have picked a worse time - Kerry lost June 2004 to Reagan's death/funeral (not Clinton's fault) then most of July 2004 to Clinton's book/book tour. In addition to the media quickly looking under the letter "L" in the index, Clinton really minimized Kerry in the book.

Now, it was Clinton's autobiography - but in describing the reconciliation with Vietnam, Clinton praises and credits mostly John McCain. Yet both Kerrey and McCain, in independent accounts of the committee both credit Kerry with being the only one who could have led that committee to the conclusion he did. Ultra conservative, Bob Smith, actually endorsed Kerry in 2004. The only mention of Kerry here was in the middle of a list of the veterans involved. (Kerry actually drafted the treaty with his SFRC staffer and Tom Vallery, who led Veterans for Kerry.)

He also went through the 1996 Senate elections. There are 2 pages on MA's race. On one, he speaks of how Weld was his favorite Governor and that he wouldn't mind having him in the Senate. On the next, he says that he decided he didn't want to lose Kerry because of his technical and environmental expertise and that he was impressed with Kerry's long term committment to under privileged youth - something that has no votes in it.

This is damning with faint praise. Clinton was editing the book through May, per media accounts. Kerry became the nominee in the first week of March. What he didn't mention there - Kerry's foreign policy experince, his work on BCCI and terrorism, and his work on reconciliation in Vietnam and other SE nations, including proposing the format for the Pot Pol era war crimes tribunal. Do you think that foreign policy, fighting terrorism, or the diplomacy of reconciliation might have been important in 2004? Also, why would a Democratic President even think of preferring the Republican for any seat when the incumbent is a scandal free Democrat. (and if he did, why share it as that person is one month away from being nominated the Democratic Presidential nominee? That thought was not critical to defing Clinton.

He also didn't point out that Kerry and Kennedy had that year introduced a bill that was the precursor to S-Chip, based on a bill that passed the MA legislature over Weld's veto. Weld also had been in the Reagan Justice department and stonewalled Kerry request for documents related to the Contra drug running, even when Kerry had Lugar ask for them as well.

2) Clinton and people like Carville and Begala leaked their complaints that Kerry's campaign was not doing the right things. They whined that he was not speaking of domestic issues enough. Even if they had been right - which they weren't - they should have kept the complaints in house.

Clinton did similar things to Gore - giving an interview on how he was fixing his life after Monica about 3 days before Gore's convention and negatively critiquing his campaign. I bet you that neither Kerry or Gore will do things like this to HRC. It could be that Bill Clinton is just undisiplined and didn't thing of how these actions would play, but he should have.

In the overall scheme of things, Clinton's actions were likely of little impact - but both were extremely close elections.

[XemaSab]

18. Not to mention Al Gore...

That Vanity Fair article was a really hard read. :(

[Inuca]

26. Indeed, a very painful read

and an eye-opener. The "what if"s that kept going through my mind as I was reading it....

[fujiyama]

42. Have a link to the article?

I'd be interested in reading it..

[karynnj]

45. Here it is:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/clinton200711?printable=true¤tPage=all

"Promised real power as Bill Clinton's vice president, Al Gore found he had a rival for that role: the First Lady. And when Hillary decided to run for the Senate, a tense competition got ugly. In an excerpt from her new book about the Clinton White House years, the author reveals how conflicting agendas—the triangle of a scandal-ridden lame-duck president, the wife he'd betrayed, and his designated successor—sapped Gore's 2000 campaign as the bond between two couples dissolved into distrust, anger, and resentment. "

[XemaSab]

51. Here:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/clinton200711

[Captain Hilts]

53. You're wrong. Chelsea Clinton campaigned with the Kerry daughters and Caroline Kennedy.

Think again.

[ripple]

7. He's correct.

So what?

[zulchzulu]

9. Oh lookie! If it's putting Hillary Clinton under scrutiny, now it's "republican propoganda"

Yesterday, it was "piling on"... Day before that "ganging up"... Week before that, it's "Hillary hater"...

Jimmy Carville, the Focus Group report is in... you're running out of excuses.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[journalist3072]

11. Being pathetic and desparate is not a good look for Obama

He's turning me off more and more.

Unless Sen. Clinton verbalized that she felt she was entitled to the presidency, Barack has no factual basis for his comments.

[Bullet1987]

13. Being evasive and contradictory is not a good look for Clinton...

see, that can go both ways.

[Nedsdag]

14. Girlfriend,

You weren't voting for Obama in the first place.

She said the reasons why they are going after her is because she is winning. Winning what is anyone's game.

Apparently, the word "humility" isn't in her vocabulary.

[ripple]

15. Would she even be in a position to run, if not for her marriage to Bill?

Of course not. I don't know how you define such an arrangement, but I believe 'entitlement' is an appropriate term.

[dsc]

23. Would Bill Clinton have been President without her?

When they met her trajectory was better than his in many respects.

[hedgehog]

25. So now we have a woman who decided to back her husband

30 years ago instead of herself. It was probably a rational decision back then. What you are saying is that in 1992 we elected a mix of his charm and her savvy. On the other hand, if we must view the Clintons as a team, hasn't she already had two terms?

[dsc]

27. My point is that she married a man and helped his career while having one of her own

I am sick of hearing this nonsense that she is some unqualified hack who wouldn't be able to be elected dog catcher of nowheresville.

[journalist3072]

28. What a bullshit statement from you. Doesn't even deserve a response. You are pathetic.

[ripple]

37. And what a bullshit statement from you.

Tell me, please, how Hillary Clinton would have been in a position to run for president without Bill?

Please, oh please explain why so many support her just to get Bill back in the WH.

I'm not attacking her, I'm stating the truth. As a woman, I would prefer to see the first female president accomplish such a feat in her own right, not riding on the coattails of her husband.

Thanks for the insult, though. I don't believe I've ever been referred to as 'pathetic' on DU before. That's a first! :hi:

[Nedsdag]

46. ripple, have you noticed that journalist3072 has put all

Obama supporters on ignore? If you don't agree with her on Hillary, you don't receive a response from her?

Someone needs to bring her down a peg after the vile, disgusting things she has said about Obama's character. She acts as though Hillary is the greatest thing since slice bread yet she refuses to comment on how Hillary has turned on her African American colleagues for political expediency (Lani Guinier, Jocelyn Elders, Marian Wright Edelman).

[mondo joe]

31. Would Al Gore be in a position to run if not for Bill Clinton?

Would Obama?

Would Bill have been in a position to run without Hillary?

Go get in your time machine to see if yo can find out.

[ripple]

39. yes, yes, and yes

Any other questions?

[Tellurian]

34. Obama has a look? He has become a Republican clone..

He has told many people early on before he was a Legislator, he wanted to run for president.
The more you get to know him, the easier it is to dislike his thirst for power!

[Guaranteed]

47. Well, he should have been pointing this out from the get-go. nt

[Karmadillo]

12. This is sad stuff.

nt

[Tellurian]

35. Yup, Obama is in full out Republican attack mode...

He can take his nuclear weapons and shove 'em where the sun don't shine!

:puke: on him!

[DrFunkenstein]

57. You Really Seem to Be a Lovely Person

Class act. You are really doing a service to the Clinton campaign.

[ecstatic]

16. I don't like that. I wish all of them would focus only on Bush and the pugs running

And make clear how their presidency would be different.

goddamnit!! why is that such a hard concept for them to grasp?!

[pnwmom]

17. So, basically, the African-American man is accusing the white woman

of being too ambitious.

Who is she to think that she should be trying to win the election?

:shrug:

I think that all the candidates should be playing to win -- and they better know how when they're up against the Rethug.

[Captain Hilts]

54. That was pathetic. I think less of Obama after that. Why's he in the race? To lose? nt

[Middle finga]

19. Hell he's right, what other reasons have she provided?

She do not really stand for anything, the clintons just want the power.

[depakid]

20. Why is that "Republican propaganda?"

Sounds more like an OBJECTIVE and ACCURATE assessment to me. On both the Clinton's parts.

In fact, it's so obvious that it kinda makes me question the acumen (or sincerity) of those who can't (or won't) see it.

[PurityOfEssence]

21. Because it was easier to sell than "left-wing propaganda".

One of the metrics is this: if it's something you've heard before that's unflattering to Senator Clinton, it's "Republican propaganda"; if it's something new, it's "left-wing propaganda".

Pretty simple, actually.

It's tough being the ultra-moderate; even though you simultaneously agree with both of them, they just won't give you a rest. Oh, if there was only a FOURTH way. Perhaps it's time for quadrilateralating...

Hmmm...

[hfojvt]

22. what are "long term plans"?

When she decided to accept the offer of the US Senate seat from New York, some time in 1999, I knew then that she would later run for the Presidency, and I think speculation on that was reported in the media. Isn't that kinda long term?

[flpoljunkie]

24. You forget, Herman Munster, that Terry McAuliffe said, and I quote, "It's her turn."

[Carrieyazel]

29. Obama is wrong when he says she's running "a textbook campaign"

She's running a lackluster, shop-worn, front-running pseudo campaign. And she has made numerous gaffes. She may be following a textbook, but she's making plenty of errors along the way. And she's not all that skilled a politician. She isn't Bill.

But he's absolutely right about the "being owed the presidency" crap. She does feel that way, and it isn't Repuke propaganda. She thinks it is her turn. NO IT ISN'T, HILLARY.

[Tellurian]

36. Obama is a textbook Raving, Rovian Republican..

[ripple]

43. But I thought he was running a crappy campaign. Which is it?

You really should consider writing fiction. Oh, that's right, you already are.

[Carrieyazel]

30. It IS NOT Repuke propaganda to say that. She does arrogantly believe that it is her turn.

And if we make the mistake of nominating her, because the Establishment and Hillaryland believes she is owed the Presidency right now, we will pay a terrible price when she loses the general.

[ecstatic]

33. which candidate doesn't believe it's his/her turn?

:shrug: Most people who run for office have huge egos.

[Nimrod2005]

32. He is right on this!!! Not a rightwing POV!

[Arugula Latte]

38. Why is that "Republican" propaganda? He's telling the truth.

Truth hurts, I guess.

[Tellurian]

40. I guess you don't know the Truth..NT

[cascadiance]

48. Hmm... Weren't a lot of Republicans saying that Hillary Clinton was the Dem favorite?

So if you are also saying that she's the favorite for the Democratic nomination, does that make you also echoing "Republican propaganda" too?

[Maven]

49. You know, the more they attack Clinton for being the "presumptive" frontrunner

the more they reinforce the idea that Clinton is the presumptive frontrunner.

Don't they realize that? It's poor strategy.

A smart candidate would cultivate an image of him or herself as a frontrunner rather than constantly acknowledge (in a petulant fashion, no less) that the opposition had a leg up.

[Captain Hilts]

52. It worked for GWB. nt

[AtomicKitten]

50. The truth is not a RW talking point.

[opihimoimoi]

55. When ya behind in the polls SMEARING BECOMES SO ATTRACTIVE

Obama should be getting out of this mode...does not bode well for him...

Obama himself goes into smearing/denigrating/negativity.....making him a desperate over reaching candidate...he has yet to mature.

[Bullet1987]

56. She would be doing the same thing if she weren't the frontrunner

and you know it. I love how the Clintonites are panicking because their candidate is being exposed.

[MonkeyFunk]

58. Meh...

it's not much of a smear. It's running for office.

It's what he SHOULD be doing if he's serious.