Biden was right about Pakistan

[PatSeg]

At last week's debate, Senator Biden warned about taking our "eye off the ball". Too much focus was being placed on Iran, when Pakistan was the country to watch. Pakistan HAS nuclear weapons - "If President Pervez Musharraf is ousted and religious radicals take over the government, the potential use of nuclear weapons against Israel or other U.S. allies in that region would no longer be a subject of academic discourse."

Now this breaking news from CNN:

Sources: Martial law declared in Pakistan

<LAHORE, Pakistan (CNN) -- Faced with increasing violence and unrest, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf on Saturday declared a state of emergency, government sources told CNN.>

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/11/03/pakistan.emergency/index.html

[Windy]

1. so was Obama...

I wouldn't mind a Biden obama ticket. Two smart men in foreign policy.

[Inuca]

3. Agree

Two smart men, one with lots of experience, the other with a huge potential.

[Froward69]

5. There with ya

[Inuca]

2. Absolutely. He and the other

thinking heads in the foreign relations committee (and there are several, on both sides, Kerry, Hagel, and Lugar come first to mind) that have been saying similar things for a long time, and who understand that foreign policy should be addressed holistically, not by focusing obsessively (and stupidly) on one issue while disregarding the larger picture. This makes me so damn MAD.

[PatSeg]

4. And Bush's warning about WW III if Iran was allowed

to get a nuclear weapon, while completely ignoring Pakistan who already has nuclear weapons. The man is clueless! Experience DOES count.

[Inuca]

10. Exactly my point

paranoic obsession with one issue, while ignoring and not understanding (nor caring) about the big picture where the real answers can be found.

[PatSeg]

37. "Not caring" is what really scares me

I don't think he really cares about the repercussions of his careless words and objectives. He lives in a comic book world, and envisions himself as an all powerful super hero. I swear, some of his early speeches sound like they came out of a Super Man comic.

[Sparkly]

6. I think Pakistan is like a shaky house of cards.

And BushCo has us in there rattling the whole region... I just hope it stays relatively stable through the next year. Very dangerous situation all the way around.

[PatSeg]

7. There doesn't seem to be anything that

Bush can't screw up!

[napi21]

8. I mentioned that Biden statement to my hubby this morning.

How weird is it that Joe talked about Pakistan just this past Tuesday and THIS happens just a few days later!

I feel each of our candidates have different reasons to support them, but Joe sure seems to excell in foreign affairs...way past the others. I'm STILL hoping Joe will be one of the big winners in Iowa and give us one of those upsets Iowa is sso famous for!

[JNelson6563]

9. Those were insightful comments

Biden is one smart guy. I like him. :toast:

Julie

[IndianaGreen]

11. While Biden was prophetically warning about Pakistan, Hillary was defending Kyl-Lieberman

Who do we really want as President, a candidate that truly understands the complexities of the world we live in, or one that continues to give Bush another pretext to start a new war?

[ellacott]

13. Biden also talked about the terrorist threat the day before 9/11

He trumps everyone on foreign policy.

[jillan]

25. That actually gave me chills when I read it.

[iverglas]

19. hello, IndianaGreen

I don't think we've ever been properly introduced, although we've occasionally crossed paths hereabouts. I'm Canadian, social democrat in the present circumstances (and very much not a fan of the Liberal Party of Canada, just for clarification), and at present favouring Biden for Democratic nominee/president of the US. (Not saying it matters whom I favour, just saying!)

I've seen a couple of favourable comments about Biden by you, and I'm wondering whether you've made up your mind/declared yet.

While Biden is obviously not where I'm at on the political compass -- draw a line from Biden through Kucinich and Gravel and nearly as far again down toward the bottom left corner:



and you'll hit me -- I think he's at about the best place the Democratic Party (and the US) can realistically be expected to be at present. Some reasons:

- on things where it is good to be "liberal" -- civil liberties, human rights -- he is liberal

- he is hugely more knowledgeable about the world than just about anyone on the national scene in the US

- he is enormously intelligent -- his mental processing speed and organization of ideas are a joy to watch -- and you really just can't have too much of that in a head of state/government

- he is able to communicate, with both groups and individuals, in a way that puts him in common with them, both in terms of what they are talking about and how they talk about it

- he is very actively non-divisive
-- his collegial approach (I prefer that description to "bipartisan"), both formally and informally, to the "other side" in government is needed in order to get things done, whether by persuading or by compromising, as the case calls for
-- his collegial approach to his fellow candidates for the nomination (he scored his own points when he responded to Giuliani's claim that Clinton and Obama weren't qualified on foreign policy
http://www.joebiden.com/contribution/2?id=0015
but showed solidarity with his opponents at the same time) is good for his party and would serve it well during an election and in office

- he is clearly dedicated to public service, but also more specifically to the interests of the vulnerable and disadvantaged, for instance in his record on violence against women

- he is realistic about what he can expect to accomplish, and has plans for getting there that go in the right direction for what should one day be accomplished (I'm thinking of his health care proposal)

- his integrity is not really subject to attack


I know that there are things that can be raised to question every one of those positives -- except maybe his brains. ;) And I certainly have qualms about some of his positions, although mainly they apply to all the candidates. (I do accept Kucinich's "flip flop" on women's reproductive rights as an entirely sincere seeing of the light.) But I'm not seeing anyone better overall, or even close to as good.

I'd rather see Kucinich's program implemented in the US, obviously. I simply can't see the Democratic Party withstanding the assault that would be mounted by every wealthy interest group in the country against his candidacy for president -- starting with the health insurance industry. Biden would just be infinitely harder to defeat than Kucinich. "Electability", if you will, but not so much in the sense that he's more "presidential", rather that he and his platform could not be defeated as easily as Kucinich.

I'd also rather see a woman or an African-American leading the Democratic Party and the US. Preferably an African-American woman! But I do not think that Obama is remotely qualified for the office, and I do not think that Clinton has ever given any reason to think that she would genuinely lead on any of the issues that need leadership, or lead in the right direction. I can imagine what a Biden presidency would be like; I have no clue what either an Obama or a Clinton presidency would be; neither seems able to just take a sound position and advocate for it.


So I'm just curious -- if you are leaning to Biden, why? and if not, why not? Hope you don't mind me asking -- because, seriously, I am curious about why anybody is favouring any candidate, but particularly why left-identified people favour Biden.

[Think82]

23. Kick!

Biden: Insight, authenticity, pragmatism, morality.... and a great snese of humor.

[iverglas]

26. but of course!

a great snese of humor

... even though I'd spell a couple of things differently there. ;)

I would never have a mad crush on anyone who wasn't funny as hell!

I hope IndianaGreen catches my post -- or anyone else who wants to respond is welcome.

The thread on why "liberal" Democrats aren't supporting Kucinich, and a couple of other threads today, have been getting at something similar to what I was saying about not being divisive.

I think "electability" is just too unnuanced a way of characterizing the concerns.

Biden has demonstrated an ability to build concensus and get results while in office that Kucinich hasn't. And Biden is not open to the kind of all-out mobilization of right-wing resources and voters in an election that Kucinich would clearly be open to.

[Inuca]

27. What a great post

and great analysis of Biden.

[iverglas]

28. because Biden is usually busy working ...

we don't see a lot of him on TV or in the press up here in the ordinary course of things -- where we do of course get all the networks and CNN on cable, and in my household we pay for MSNBC (but not FoxNews). Actually, I guess that's true in the US too.

I watched him during the Clarence hearings; hours and hours. Some US station that I got at the time carried them. I was a lawyer and political activist/feminist, and I was glued to the tube -- not to see what would happen, because I knew that already, but just to watch these top guys at the top of their game.

You know what I find funny now?

I looked at all those top guys on the Senate Judiciary Committee as the socio-economic cream of the US crop -- rich white guys with Ivy League educations who hadn't really had to work much to get where they were, but who were all undeniably extraordinarily smart. Watching them joust was evidence of that.

So what I find funny now is reading how Joe Biden is a regular kinda guy (and decidedly not rich) and comes across that way to regular kinda people. And watching the debates and looking at youtube clips, I see it. Like in his explanation of his health care proposal to someone in a crowd he was working.

Of course, after watching his extremely careful and deliberate handling of those hearings, I've also been a little surprised to learn he's known for putting his foot in his mouth! More power to him; better to say something, and say as much as he says that's as genuine and straightforward as what he says, and occasionally say something dumb than to spend all one's time trying to say nothing that anyone could ever try to hold one to.

Oh, and anybody willing to say out loud what any rational person thinks when being spoken to by someone caressing a big ol' gun, well, there's an example. ;)

[jillan]

20. Amen to that!

[mmonk]

12. Pakistan was always a greater threat

than Iran, Iraq, and North Korea, especially with the Khan network.

[cali]

14. I really like Joe BUT

his word about Musharraf can be interpreted as defense of the unsupportable status quo in Pakistand. And the reason that Musharraf has imposed martial law is NOT because of the increasing violence, it's because the Pakistani SC had ruled unfavorably toward Musharraf in the past, and they were posed to do so in the future.

[Inuca]

16. Biden's point was that

Pakistan is politically very unstable AND that they ALREADY have nuclear weapons. I am not sure where you saw a defense of anything in what he said, unless you are referring to some other statement (as opposed to the one in the debate) that I am not aware of.

[mmonk]

17. Yes.

And the truth is Musharraf was basically forced into a cozier relationship with Washington. It's not out of common purpose or love of the US.

[ginchinchili]

15. Hmmm...and yet another reason to give this man our support.

Consider the Republicans in the 2000 election. John McCain, whom I have lost all respect for, was much more qualified than Dubya, yet Bush's Republican handlers were able to package him as a likable good old boy that people would most like to have a beer with. Given a choice between McCain and Bush, we would be better off today had McCain won (and, of course, much better off had Gore been allowed his presidency.)

So we have a similar dynamic going on with the Democrats in 2008. Democrats like Bill Clinton and are beside themselves at the thought of making his wife president as well; a Clinton + the first woman president. Those are certainly better reasons than if we were to declare support for Hillary because she'd be fun to drink beer with. However, are those really the best reasons for choosing our nominee? Or more importantly, who has the best credentials of the Democratic pack? I think the answer is clear that Joe Biden is the candidate best positioned to win in a general election and is most qualified to be president on day one of the next administration. The Republicans made a grave and costly mistake in 2000. Our country has paid a very deep and devastating price, and thousands have paid with their lives. Now that it's our turn, are we going to make the same mistake?

[dugggy]

18. The 1st nuclear device to be exploded inside USA will be from Pakistan

I have said that long ago. Most Americans are completely UNaware of
the extent to which islamic fanatics exist in Pakistan. Taliban was
conceived and nurtured by Pakistan. Pakistan has more MADRASSA's than
the rest of the muslim world combined. Every 911 terrorist had a
connection to Pakistan for training and indoctrination. And Pakistan
is the only islamic country which already has nuclear bombs.

And where do you think Osama and his evil gang have taken refuge? PAKISTAN!
Yet Bush/Chaney are salivating at attacking Iran? How stupid!! Only Obama
has shown the correct understanding of the danger posed by saying he would
attack Pakistan to kill/capture Osama.

[jillan]

21. This is what really gets me ticked off at the msm. Biden warned us of this at the debate BUT

did they talk about this?
No - it was all about the attacks on the frontrunner.

And when they spoke about Biden it was about Rudy.

I even sent an email to KO, thinking that he would be interested in Biden's discussion, but no, he was right there with the rest of them talking about Obama v Hillary and Brittney Spears.

Only Mother Jones seems to understand what Biden was telling us.

Biden needs to be in the WH NOW! The world can't wait until 1/20/09.

[jillan]

22. kicking

[youthere]

24. and another kick...WHY is this man not the frontrunner?

[ginchinchili]

29. Lack of cash is a big reason.

It's ironic that Democrats are quick to complain about ties between corporations and our politicians, then coalesce around the candidates who receive the most donations from corporate America. We have to reach deep into our pockets and do what we can for Sen. Biden, and our country.

[Inuca]

30. And I hope

that at least some of the people that are saying goog things about Biden around here will do just that.

[demommom]

31. and again

:kick:

[Alexander]

32. Biden would make a great Sec. of State or Defense under President Al Gore...

Just saying. :-)

[Disturbed]

33. I have posted the Pakistan situation for a few years.

It shows that it doesn't take a genius to see that Pakistan is the most
dangerous country on the Planet.

[PatSeg]

36. Someone needs to tell Rudy and Bush

Though I think Biden already did!

[Think82]

38. Gore's not running dude. Vote for Biden.

Don't you want a president who is at least qualified ot be SOS?

[jillan]

34. kicking for the important issues

[demommom]

35. K&R