Dean is "nuts"....

[waylon]

Sorry Dean supporters but this might be indicative of the problem. When you go from financial backing by a union to being called nuts, there is more to it than a media conspiracy.

Labor Supporter Says Dean Ignored His Entreaties to Quit

"One of Howard Dean's most powerful labor supporters, Gerald W. McEntee, said on Thursday that he had decided that Dr. Dean was "nuts" shortly before he withdrew his support for Dr. Dean's candidacy and begged him to quit the race to avoid a humiliating defeat.

Mr. McEntee, the president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, defended his decision to abandon the campaign, saying he told Dr. Dean that he did not want to spend another $1 million of his union's money "in order to get him a couple of extra points in Wisconsin."


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/20/politics/campaign/20DEAN.html?ei=5062&en=2924792e3ad4680c&ex=1077858000&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=

[DannyRed]

1. Let's contrast with Andy Stern of SEIU

and see whether we come out with an opinion that Dean is the problem, or perhaps MCEntee is the problem.

Union insiders I know despise McEntee.

[waylon]

2. The support was there at first...

or was it not?

Not a dean afficianado

[boilerbabe]

13. I met a rep of the SEIU at a Dean Steering Committee Mtg in CT...

and he was very articulate and supportive. Also there was a rep from ASCME (? did I get that one right?) who at the time also seemed pretty much supportive. So I am not impressed with this guy's backpeddling by any means. I think he is trying to dis-associate himself from what he feels is a bad publicity incident...I have seen a lot of flip-flopping amongst the various supporters of the campaigns.
I work in a paper mill which is non-union, so I am not familiar with union practices. I do see that they don't have the power they once had, and I kind of regret that. There were several attempts to bring in a union at my workplace over the past 7 years and the owners somehow intimidated or otherwise made it seem like it was against our best interests by giving us little "perks"...
Oh well, now I am working for another company, but at the same site (we are building a cogeneration unit to provide power and steam to the plant that I have been working at for the last 7yrs...) and we are also non-union....I think we should look into unionization for ourselves, not as a protection against our parent company so much as a protection against our former employer as regards to contractual agreements which have put us in an unteneble situation. Or I CAN FIND a STUPID RICH GUY haha.
XXXOOO
the Boilerbabe

[deutsey]

31. Here is Stern's comment:

http://www.blogforamerica.com/

Andrew L. Stern, president of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), today released the following statement after holding a conference call with SEIU's Executive Board: "Last fall, SEIU members decided to endorse Howard Dean for president because his proven track record of providing health care - both as a doctor and as Vermont's Governor - made him the candidate they trusted to deliver health care to the entire nation.

"And it was Howard Dean who stood up to George W. Bush on so many other issues important to ordinary Americans, even when it wasn't popular.

"That is why SEIU nurses, health care workers, janitors, security officers and public employees from New Hampshire to Michigan to Wisconsin continued to stand by Governor Dean, even as other candidates adopted his message and moved up in the polls.

"We understand and respect his decision to stop pursuing the presidency, but Howard Dean's 'campaign for change' is far greater than a bid for the White House. His legacy will be felt well beyond SEIU's members or even this election. Ordinary Americans, working families, and the Democratic Party all owe a huge debt to Governor Dean, for his candidacy has had a monumental effect on American politics and our nation's values. SEIU holds no regrets.

"Howard Dean's message that we must change Washington so that all Americans can earn a decent living, provide a good education for their children, and depend upon quality, affordable health care is now the message of the entire Democratic field.

"Because of his vision, hundreds of thousands of people who were turned off by the political process have returned -- or are participating for the first time. And he has opened up a whole new world of political activity by tapping into the limitless potential of the Internet, connecting people and places with issues and ideas.

"With these contributions in hand, the eventual Democratic nominee will be even stronger and better prepared to beat George W. Bush in November.

"Given Howard Dean's decision, SEIU's Executive Board has asked local leadership to begin the process of determining whether it is in the best interest of our members for SEIU to endorse another candidate, or to release local unions to make their own decisions. The SEIU Executive Board will revisit the issue in one week to allow for member input.

"We applaud Howard Dean, honor his contribution, and look forward to working with him to elect a president who will fight for working families and who will not rest until every American has access to secure, affordable health care.

"Together, we will take our country back."

Why, Mr. Stern, that kinda talk is just plain nuts...:eyes:

[Guaranteed]

3. You're nuts.

;)

[boilerbabe]

4. Maybe I'm biased..

Having worked on Dean's campaign these past few months...
but I think that this union rep withdrew his support as a result of negative media spin, which to me, was magnified by an overreaction by the other candidates, who were panicking, since at the time, Dean was the front runner. Now look at what kind of smears are being aimed at Kerry. I think this McEntee fellow is very pusillanimous, but no different than any other person concerned with image and association. Just not equipped with the balls to make this all happen...
Oh well, just as long as the Democratic Party doesn't bow down to machinations by the opposition, then MAYBE we CAN take this country back and KEEP it!!
Though I had put my heart and soul (what's left of it haha) into Howard Dean, I am willng to check out the remaining candidates of the Dem party.
I don't know much about either Kerry or Edwards, so any insight you can provide would be most helpful, as there are a lot of us "Deanies" at loose ends here.
Thanks....
The Boilerbabe

[BurtWorm]

5. You sound better informed, actually.

Not biased. :hi:

[boilerbabe]

15. Thank you!

You have made me feel better about this whole thing! I have been out of touch with life in general, due to working a lot of overtime and also my brother has been warning me away from DU for the past couple of months due to the fact that a lot of people have been slicing Howard Dean. This is my first time back on in at least 2 months or so...
I do try not to be too biased, though I threw my lot in with Howard Dean, I also liked what the other candidates had to offer. I liked Carol Mosely Braun very much, Dennis Kucinich, and Al Sharpton certainly had some good witticisms to add to it all. I don't know much about Kerry or Edwards, though I will have to look at one or the other seriously soon...and Clark was cute in a "my favorite Martian" sort of way. I think a lot of the "electability" (sp?) seems contingent upon what the media spins...is that candidate good-looking and media-friendly?? We know that Kerry is kinda cadaverous looking, and Edwards looks like he needs a makeover for his hairdo...Bush is just average, needs a "de-smirker" to mask his disdain for the "average Joe"...It's sad, isn't it??
I would love to hear what you think as regards to the two remaining viable candidates, so I can make an informed decision!
XXXOOO
Jo-lee a.k.a. The Boilerbabe:toast:

[BurtWorm]

21. Welcome back!

Glad I could make you feel good on your return! I can only say this much about what's left: I have a visceral dislike and distrust of Edwards. This has been gelling rather rapidly in the last couple of days--though it's been there all along; all along he's been just an eyelash above Lieberman for me (though he's sunken in the last week or so)--as I've been reading about his enthusiasm for the Iraq war, his disdain for the UN, his phony working class roots (his father was a supervisor and eventually a freelancing consultant), his kindness to banks, and assorted other things. He makes Kerry look not so bad to me.

But I'm voting for Dean on Super Tuesday. Maybe you should ask someone who feels more positive about Edwards if you want a well-rounded opinion of him. ;)

[boilerbabe]

24. I agree with you on all counts...

I distrust Edwards, it seems that his "living in a car" background is totally phony. I have eaten shit in the employment sector in my day,too, but I don't think that he was really down and out enough to be able to utilize this as his platform, seeing as he is pretty much well-to-do now. and he is probably beholden to those who made his prosperity happen. At least Kerry is rich as @#$% and we know it!! I was planning on voting for Howard Dean anyway in our primary, but if his campaign advises me to not do so, I will have to rethink it. I appreciate your input, I kind of had a question on Edwards, too.
Even though Kerry is rich as f$%#, he did come back from the Vietnam war and helped start the Veterans Against the War...which I think is something to think about!
XXXOOO
Thanks for the welcome back, by the way, it makes me feel very good!!
Don't always know if my "from the heart" dialogues contribute much to this site, but I mean well anyway....
XXXOOO

[BurtWorm]

26. They mean something to me.

:toast:

[Zomby Woof]

36. you're confusing Edwards with Kucinich

Kucinich's Dad was a truck driver, and they had a large family, moving often, and sometimes living in cars in-between places.

Edwards hae NEVER claimed he lived in a car. He does say he is the "son of a mill worker" often, but has NEVER claimed to have lived in a car.

[madfloridian]

7. McEntee made some out of line comments on C-Span.

He was "rallying" some union folks, and he looked right at the camera and said they were telling people the wrong day for the primary. He said it right on C-Span. My hubby yelled at the TV it was sabotage. I think he was right.

[boilerbabe]

16. Are you kidding??

That smacks of Republican tactics...do you think that they may have been swayed by the "other side" ? That would be SO wrong. I hate it that people just go where the money is, sacrificing principles along the way.
I think that's the main reason why I got involved with the Dean campaign in the first place. A lot of people who never worked on a political campaign were gravitated towards Dean's campaign for a reason...for one, the backlash against the stolen election, for 2...we didn't like the direction this country is heading in...
I hate to but have to admit that many years ago, when I didn't know any better (was still in high school...) I was working on the Ronald Reagan campaign...when we were in caucus in Maine, I went totally nuts (embarrassing my poor Mom) when they got to the social legislation that they were trying to put through...I screeched and screeched and then walked out. Like how was I gonna get home (250 miles away, no driver's license...) haha. I was the youngest delegate elected for that convention, and they convinced me to come back in, but after that and the New Hampshire convention pretty much did me in, and i registered as "independant" for a few years.
So I never got involved in any political endeavour since, until HOward Dean...
I think it is terrible what these people do in order to further their agenda...they misinform people, try to make them vote against their interests whilst making them think that they are voting for their interests...it never ends!!
Your hubby is right!! And I am glad to find that you are aware of this duality and will do something about it!!
XXXOOO
Jo-lee

[johnnydem]

22. Dean did the same thing...

I was actually at a Dean rally in Las Cruces, NM, where Dean himself gave the wrong date for the February 3rd primaries...and I have no doubt that Dr. Dean actually knew the correct date.

Mistakes happen, come on...

[boilerbabe]

25. Maybe they are like me, just working too much?

Though for Dean to mess up a crucial date for New Mexico would be a bigger problem than me messing up a date for like my power engineers' meeting! That's too weird, do you think then, that it was an across the board schedule mistake? I wouldn't know, and besides, all I do is workworkwork, so I am lucky I even know what year it is!
XXXOOOO
Jo-lee

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. As one who has worked with union bosses, his comments were

irresponsible but he too treads a fine line with keeping his membership inspired.

Without any vitriol, if I were in McEntee's place and listened to that speech after Iowa ( NOT THE SCREAM) but the tone of being behind when in fact he was still the frontrunner, I think my anal sphincter would have tightened up a bit too. Dean gave a speech to loyal supporters in a state that was on the NATIONAL stage..his own staff shot him in the foot by not getting that in advance. Had he acted like it were NOTHING, it very well might have been.

[boilerbabe]

18. Dean's campaign staff apparently has been caught out...

It is so hard to make the right image in today's media-centric world! I guess it's a little too late and a day short that Joe Trippi and Co. left the Dean campaign. I don't know just what went on there, though I have been working on Dean's campaing all these months...(I have been a volunteer, and I have not been able to do much the past couple of months, due to working a lot of overtime...)
To me, though, it's all presentation, who looks the best to the media and the public is the guy that gets the prize. It's all in the packaging, I guess. Sad but true. I liked a lot of what the other candidates had to say, especially Carol Mosely Braun, Dennis Kucinich, and Al Sharpton, but you know that the media and others dug up several negative things for each person enough to disqualify them forever in the public eye...
Anyway, for whatever reason that JOe Trippi either left or was fired from Howard Dean's campaign...it was too late to redeem it all. I do hope that Dean will still play an influential role in our next government, however it may be.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Not all packaging

That night it was the communication. There was an expectation that was unfulfilled and rather than brush it off and move on, it was actually trumped up by him to BE a bigger loss than it represented.

I hope he does stick around and continue to make a difference. And if he runs again, to do so a bit wiser and with just the right mix of volunteers and seasoned staff.

[JCMach1]

6. Funny how the only two main candidates left standing are

DLC...

The party leadership (including unions) closed rank on Dean.

[madfloridian]

8. Ah, Jerald, you noticed.

We are voting for Dean in the primary, and after that we are not sure. This time the ABB seems silly, as I am beginning to think there is little difference.

[boilerbabe]

23. Wow!! You may be onto something there!

It's getting pretty hairy isn't it? And the thing that scared me away from going on DU for a few months (the bloody massacre between the Dem candidates) is only gonna get worse between whoever we wind up with and the Repugs. And you know they have the superior Dirty Tricks tactics. We are as a party not known as dirty tricks people. I think we need to stoop to their level and play the game even better.
I remember seeing alot of posts (before I took my 2-3month hiatus) where a lot of people took this conciliatory attitude where they wanted to make the right wingers like us...WTF?? Do you think that they are worried about whether the Dems like them??? Why would we want them to like us? is that gonna get us anywhere?? NO. So let's get up on it and take our country back, or what's left of our country, that is!! No mercy, no "why don't you like me" stuff...I don't like the Repubs (except on an individual basis, where they don't realize how stupid they are for being in that party...) and I don't expect them to like me and couldn't give a FLYING SQUIRREL if they did!! I am sick and tired of people running this country that I happen to be living in, that are also running it against my interests, which are not demanding, just want to have a fair shake at life,to be left alone, to have a decent employment without the threat of sending my job overseas to a sweatshop, to have the choice if I want to have a child, marry someone of my own sex (actually, I am too ornery to marry anyone, unless they give me all their money and leave me the hell alone haha), to have medical care universal to EVERYONE regardless of their employment status or ability to pay...this could all be done if we had the right person to fight the status quo.
It's a big job, but that was what Howard Dean wanted and what I and many others wanted too.
Anyways, it ain't a popularity contest anymore, despite what the media wants to put it as such...
XXXOOO

[boilerbabe]

19. DLC didn't like Dean,

He bypassed their regular channels!
I would also bypass the DLC, but if that is what it takes to get rid of our current administration, then I will go along with them...TO A POINT...!!

[JCMach1]

29. Exactly-- half a pie is better

than none

[JCMach1]

28. MadFL and Boilerbabe-- It has been my experience

(from my own campaign) that often the party leadership and the grassroots are completely disengaged from one another. I saw this happening up-close in the Florida Democratic Party.

The party closed around (and supported) only those who had a stake in the status quo.

I can remember sitting in a Dem. Party briefing session for candidates in 2002 and listening to 'the handlers' tell everyone DON'T ATTACK JEBtm, he's too popular.

They were saying the same thing at the national level in 2002 as well.

This is why I liked Dean... Like me, he had a real grasp of what was going on. For Dean (and I hope myself) it wasn't just about politics... it was looking in the camera (talking to people) and telling them the truth-- no matter how ugly.

The powerbrokers in the Democratic have shown they won't go down without a fight. It will take several election cycles to make a significant change.

Dean, I think has the power to influence some of that.

=================================================================

I will vote for the party's nominee, but I can also work hard to take over the party apparatus.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. This is bad every friggin way around

For McEntee to say this is just terrible. Even if he disagreed with the decision to stay in, the fact that he would make this particular statement within earshot of the NYT is just irresponsible to his MEMBERSHIP beyond belief and doesn't even speak highly of him (after all the ultimate decision to get the union aligned behind Dean rests with him in the first place.)

Fine if they sit it out for now. Wait til there's a clear frontrunner and throw all your money at him in the GE or get some money to issues ads. At this point to support another NON winner isn't going to inspire confidence in his membership.

[Guaranteed]

10. Is Dean losing even still an issue?

Why don't we examine what HAPPENED in the media to expedite his bowing out of the race? How was it that the media was able to get away with calling him "unelectable" every other sentence, even without justification?

My mother says it's because Dean wasn't able to define himself. I actually tend to disagree. I think that the media was able to deliberately abuse their power, **in PARTICULAR before Iowa**, and they threw Dean into a downward spiral on purpose (which they were able to do even after Dean HAD defined himself). He told Chris Matthews what he would do if he was president, and they didn't like it. So they assassinated him.

[edzontar]

33. It is because they still FEAR and HATE Dean and his supporters

But then expect, even DEMAND, that we vote for their uninspriing candidates.

Weird stuff.

[madfloridian]

11. If it is the GOP doing this, they would be going after the front-runners.

Why are they going after Dean? Dean publicly thanked the SEIU and IUPAT unions for not deserting him. Maybe Mr McEntee got his nose out of joint.

They more they pull stuff like this, the more disillusioned I get.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Not the case at all, madfloridian

He's covering his ass with both hands with his membership because his union's backing should carry WEIGHT and mean something and it DIDN'T translate to votes.

[Guaranteed]

17. This looks like a simple conflict in position.

The union had endorsed Dean in an effort to get behind the winner. The media assassinated him, and Dean suddenly wasn't the winner anymore. The unions panicked, while Dean had known that this was going to happen all along. Dean tried to calm them down, at least advocate holding out to WI, for CHRIST'S SAKE. NO NO NO let us GO! said the unions. Dean said YEAH, yeah, shut UP! and at least keep some dignity. God DAMN. Don't go running like a little bitch- you're going to humiliate and discredit yourself. Chill out.

So they chilled out for a little while. Then, after Dean bowed out, they started bitching again, and humiliated themselves after all.

THE END.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

30. ROFLOL

You crack me up. I especially like the "don't go running like a little bitch" part.

[Shanty Oilish]

20. More than a media conspiracy? Oh, I don't know...

I read the article and it would seem McE isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. If he's not the most tactful, who could be? with somebody else's million dollars to account for?
A rude, foaming municipal employee, very possibly a product of the public school system to boot. Take it whence it comes and be glad he's hesitant to spend other people's money.
Yes, of course he's wrong about Dean. Of course he has absorbed some newsprint. But remember Dean was 0 for 16.

[edzontar]

32. And I'd have to be "nuts" to take this as anything other than

Another media-spewed dirty trick aimed at the only candidate that stuck real fear into the hearts of the powers that be.

Thanks for sharing it.

34. anyone who runs for president is nuts. So?

:evilgrin:

[Samantha]

35. The number one thing people say in Washington about someone they

want to discredit: he or she is crazy. Also very popular: he or she is a liar. I guess one could say political namecalling comes very naturally here, and not too many people take it that seriously. It's the outside the Beltway crowd who hear the labels and recoil in horror that's the problem. They do not realize politics in Washington, as Vince Foster noted, is a blood sport.