Why the sudden critique of a "pile on"?

[TSIAS]

It seems the media, and some DU'ers, are commenting that the other Democratic candidates are unfairly piling on Hillary Clinton. She likes to call it an "obsession", and carries it as a badge of honor.

But what about 2004? Where was the outrage when the rest of the field, most notably Dick Gephardt, attacked Dean in late 2003. Even Al Sharpton jumped into the fray, noting that Dean was derelict in hiring minorities for his cabinet in Vermont. Gephardt obsensibly ruined his own campaign by going so negative in Iowa, allowing Kerry to make a comeback and win the caucuses.

Back then, it was considered good strategy. Attack the frontrunner, because that's the only real way for any other candidate to gain traction. Politics is a zero-sum contest. There's no way for Obama/Edwards/Biden to have a chance unless they cut away at Clinton's support in the polls.

It would seen that many of Clinton's team is already in general election mode, that they think the nomination is theirs and they shouldn't be bothered with these other peasants.

[AtomicKitten]

1. It the natural course of a genuine primary election.

[babylonsister]

2. I think the Clinton campaign started this ball rolling:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3669095

[Skinner]

3. It's called "politics."

Attacking the front-runner is what happens. And yes, it is typically considered good strategy if you are not the front-runner.

Then the front-runner (along with his or her supporters) has to respond in some way, and calling it an obsession or badge of honor seems like a pretty obvious response.

I guess I'm not really seeing what is different this time. This is how it always works.

[Cameron27]

8. I agree that attacking the frontrunner is political strategy,

but I don't recall this kind of pile on, moderators included, happening in any other primary except what was attempted against Dean. Do you remember anything close to this in another presidential race?

[Debi]

13. What about the December 2003 debate after Gore had endorsed Dean?

It was a free-for-all against Dean (and actually even more against Gore) from all involved.

I remember attending the JJ dinner in 1999 when Gore moved away from the stage-podium and spoke directly to Bradley sitting in the crowd. He demanded to debate Bradley "righ here right now" and the crowd stared the 'stay and fight' cheer. The JJ wasn't the most welcoming event for Bradley since the Governor and the largest unions had already endorsed Gore.

I see it in every election, I don't know why this one can be viewed as any different.

[Cameron27]

15. That's why I mentioned Dean.

Maybe I'm not remembering the other primaries accurately if what happened last night was typical.

[Debi]

17. I think time fades some of the more egregious behaviors in primaries

and 2004 is just fresh in our minds. I bet if we went back through the years we'd find similar behavior in each of the cycles.

[Yukari Yakumo]

20. The question is: Did it work as intended?

I'm inclined to believe the "pile-on" is likely to backfire against Edwards and Obama.

Obama is being portrayed as "pulling his punches". And Edwards is wide open for a counter-attack, mainly due to his rather substance-free campaign.

[LoZoccolo]

28. I would argue that putting down someone's political strategy is in itself a political strategy.

When someone wants something to be fair, they are asking for more power.

[EST]

37. There are actually some pretty encouraging trends in this election,

at least so far.
The most important points of any attack, if we are to confirm our desired reputation for ethical behavior, are that the attack must be on policy, not personality, gender, etc., and it must be factual--that is, free from distortion or unnecessary parsing.

If the attacker or his victim resorts to stepping off the path, or appearing to, the roar goes up.

So far, all of the democratic contenders have been pretty good at this, with the exception of the estimable Mr. Gravel, who brought about his early demise through his "stepping off the path."

The republican contenders have been deeply immersed in that foul smelling mud almost from the time they began. The difference is telling.

And one other point: The miracle of the internet does a powerful service with both increasing the pile-on and giving ethical or moral lapses a thorough airing.

[hedgehog]

4. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

According to Senator Clinton's supporters, if Obama doesn't attack Senator Clinton, he's too wimpy to take on the Republicans. If he points out where he things he is right and Senator Clinton is wrong, he is throwing mud, abandoning the politics of hope and aiding the Republicans!

[BridgeTheGap]

5. If you can't take the heat, get out of the primary

It's the nature of the beast

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. I Hope They Keep Bashing Her!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3671683

[Cameron27]

12. Interesting.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. They Can Pile On All They Want

And if HRC is able to leverage that to an advantage more power to her...

[kestrel91316]

7. There's just as much inappropriately excessive negative posting

about Edwards and Obama going on as about Clinton. Everyone who obsesses over the mote in the other guy's eye and ignores the log in their own (candidate's) is to blame, IMHO.

I'm trying to ignore all of it. It's immature and needlessly divisive. Sometimes I think it is INTENTIONALLY divisive.

[Debi]

9. Pardon, but where did Biden attack Clinton? In fact he specifically stated

that he wasn't going to attack Clinton, that he was running against the republicans. Maybe you should edit your post?

[Cameron27]

10. Biden didn't go beyond normal politics IMO

and he did great last night.

[Debi]

16. So why is his name in the OPs post? Unless guilt by association is necessary?

I know, it's not your place to fix it. :hi:

[Cameron27]

18. lol

If I could edit his name out I would. I love watching Biden in these debates.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I Like Biden And Richardson

Wes Clark for Hillary's VP, Joe Biden for Secretary Of State, and Bill Richardson for senator from New Mexico...

[TSIAS]

19. I'll retract my listing of Biden (n/t)

[gateley]

23. Thanks - Biden disagrees with some of Clinton's stances and he's said so, but

he didn't have an agenda to criticize her in the debate which it appears Obama and Edwards did. If he had, he would have gotten more time! :hi:

[Debi]

24. Thank you n/t

[sandnsea]

21. He's in Hillary's ad

Maybe you're targeting your frustration in the wrong direction.

[Debi]

25. He should not be in her ad either

I just her on the NBC Nightly News that she's calling it an attack from the 'all boys club'. That is an unfortunate comment causing a false presumption that all the males running for president are attacking her. That is just not the truth.

[jillan]

26. It really disgusts me that she is using gender in this....and it's not even true.

Biden refrained, and Richardson praised her.

[Debi]

27. We can complain all we want. If it's been said and the MSM has picked it up

it is true. By the time the MSM realizes that it's not true the caucuses and several primaries will be over :eyes:

[Froward69]

32. like the candiate...Hillarys add is not truthful...

It supposes guilt by association! :mad:

[monmouth]

22. One of the many things I like about Biden, he stated he was NOT

campaigning against HRC, but campaigning for the Presidency of this country. He was the only one that I can recall that did not go after her. I especially liked how they all deferred to Joe, "I agree with Joe" and so on. He has great respect amongst his own, that's important.

[jillan]

29. He was so above this. I was so impressed - and of course he is not getting any credit for it.

[Froward69]

30. Biden??? Dodd disagreed with her

Biden did not utilize his 7 minutes to sling mud. what debate did you watch? prove it?:grr:

[NewHampster]

31. Because we Democrats are stupid and destroy each other

[Froward69]

33. Except Biden!!!

He took the high road and is getting lumped into it. Biden did not attack Hillary like those others. he is smart enough not to.

[NewHampster]

34. Joe is a good man

[Froward69]

36. your banner is wrong though

it should be the two who would. Biden would mop the floor with them. better I think, than Hillary. Hillary has given them (repubes) more ammo with the drivers license thing.

To quote Groucho~ "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

[ClarkUSA]

35. Correct analysis.

It's also proved to be a successful distraction from Edwards', Obama's, and others' above average debate performances
and the real issues that came out of the debate that the Clinton campaign would rather not have the media focus on.