If the Democrats don't win

[still_one]

The Supreme Court will change this country forever.

That is why I cannot understand why many Dean supporters indicate they will not vote for anyone who voted for the war in Iraq. If that theme is played this time, then everything will be lost:

1. A woman's right to choose
2. Seperation of Church and State
3. Sexual lifestyles
4. Universal Healthcare
5. Jobs
6. The environment

Remember there will be at least 2 justices who retire. Bush has already indicated he will appoint justices the calibar of Scalia.
The supreme court transends elections.

It will not be as critical in 2008, but in 2004 it is the future of the country for the next twenty years.

[Endangered Specie]

1. Im glad other people realize this too...

When you vote 3rd or dont vote, your helping W and his gang outlaw abortion... congradulations

[still_one]

5. This is not like the 2000 election when Nader ran

This will change our country forever.

Even Howard Dean indicates anyone but Bush because he realizes how critical it is.

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. It could still be as critical in 2008

Jebbie's gearing up for that.

[still_one]

7. No it won't

The Supreme Court will not have so many Justices retiring in 2008 as in 2004. That is why I am so passionate about this.

[Faygo Kid]

3. Absolutely right, but probably worse than that.

Might be our last presidential election; not sure that 1996 wasn't our last honest one. 2000 wasn't, and this won't be, either. Look for the Bushes and their orcs to see to it that 2004 is the last one. Hate to sound like a conspiracist, but can we believe anything other than that these people will stop at nothing? They confirm that every day.

[RichM]

4. I don't believe #4 is still on the docket. Only Kucinich supports it, and

needless to say, he is deemed "unelectable." So, we don't get that one - no matter WHO wins.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. Guaranteed.

There will be no meaningful healthcare reform in the next four years. Unless it is reform for the worse.

[charlie]

6. We might even have a supporter

on the bench. It was known that O'Connor wanted to retire, but stayed on to ensure that a Republican could name her successor... but now that the country's had a full dose of Dubya's compassionate conservatism, she hasn't left or spoken of leaving.

[still_one]

9. I wouldn't put much faith in that

[charlie]

13. Hmm?

I said nothing about faith, I just think it's notable that a justice who wanted to retire in a Republican administration decided not to. And thank heavens she didn't.

[Democat]

8. Anyone who tries to help Bush get elected...

Is doing something worse than anything they can make up about John Kerry. Bush started the Iraq war, not Kerry, in case some of the bashers have already forgotten.

Kerry isn't perfect so let's just support Bush. What has happened to some people?

[still_one]

10. As far as I am concerned

Vote your conscience in the primary, but vote against Bush in the general election by voting for the nominee

[Lisa0825]

11. One more time.....

MOST Dean supporters are ABB, even though we feel we've been hammered by others. SOME Dean supporters were not Dems to begin with. They were independent, Green, moderate Republican, etc. Those have no allegiance to the Democratic party, and a larger percentage of them would probably respond that they might not vote or would vote 3rd party or write in. But those of us Dean supporters who are DEMS, MOST are ABB. You can't really blame non-Dems for voting non-Dem on principle, can you?

While I strongly disagree with them, I don't feel I can hold them to the same rules as fellow Dems.

I am so tired of people preemptively blaming Dean for any of his supporters who don't vote for the nominee. It's like ya'll are setting up the blame for the loss ahead of time, just in case.... though I believe we will win, no matter who we nominate.

[still_one]

15. That is not what I meant

Dean motivated the party, and put focus where it was lost.
I am appealing to anyone who is concerned about the make-up of the Supreme Court, and how it will affect our future

[mgmartin]

21. Howard Dean Democrat

As a Clark supporter and have been there so I agree.

[Lisa0825]

24. Thanks mgmartin! and Welcome to DU!!!!

:hi: :toast: :hi:

[newyawker99]

28. Hi mgmartin!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Crunchy Frog]

26. Hey Lisa,

that avatar looks great on you.:toast:

[waldenx]

12. the exact threats from 2000

why is it that every 4 years the only tactic anyone uses is threats?
I guess the positives must not work or there aren't any.

[arwalden]

14. No... That's How We Do Things Now. Only Threats And Negatives...

didn't you get the memo?

-- Allen

[still_one]

16. I am not using threats

Your vote is your own.

I am just pointing out that if you believe the Supreme Court can influence issues such as abortion, affirmative action, seperation of church and state, and the environment, people may want to consider how they vote in the general election.

[snoochie]

17. Maybe they're just moody

I feel that way sometimes, then I calm down and think rationally.

Nerves are raw right now. How about we let people blow off steam if they wish, and allow them to feel however they want to feel. It's a long way until November. I think we'll all feel a LOT more united by that time.

We all remember the unity bush brought us during the first three years. It'll be back after the convention, I'm sure. Some will vote 3rd party, but I'm willing to bet it'll be damn fewer than 2000.

[Citizen Kang]

18. With all due respect

Its now up to the Party and the eventual nominee to bring these people back to the flock. Those withdrawing their support for the eventual nominee in order to make a protest vote know what they are doing and know the consequences of their actions. Threatening and demanding endless loyalty oaths won't bring them back. You've got to reach out and comprimise if you want their votes back. But with the way Dean's been treated by the insiders in the party I don't expect it to happen and thats what could very well doom us in November.

[Andromeda]

25. I'm a little more optimistic than that.

Some Dean supporters will drop out of politics entirely, some will write Dean's name in, some will try to form a third-party alliance but I believe most Dean supporters will protest by staying in the system to change the party from within. For me, this means voting Democratic in the GE so the Democrats have some POWER as a leverage for change.

There is still too much hurt, pain and anger to overcome for some Dean supporters to commit to another candidate. Each voter has to make that decision for him/herself but I believe most will do the right thing in the end. At any rate, it's an individual decision.

There is too much general disgust in this country for Bush not to be replaced in November so in that respect I remain optimistic.

[EXE619K]

19. Well, I see it differently.

Instead of trying to threaten the opposition, why not try to work things out with them?

The biggest problem with the Democratic Party is that they claim to be "inclusive" and say that they need your votes during the election cycle.

Yet, when the elections are over, they completely ignore the Third-party interests and the same cycle goes on and on.
During the 2000 elections, I was one of those Pro-Democrat voters who felt that the Greens were threatening to take the country into oblivion by handing the White House to Bush. I blamed the Thrid Parties(esp. Greens and Nader) for throwing the race to Bush.

So, my question is, what has changed since 2000?

Did the Dmocratic Party leadership actively tried to "bridge" the gap between themselves and the Greens? What specific actions have they taken to be more inclusive of them? Why couldn't the Democrats help with the Greens chance at getting their voices represented at the local level since then? Why weren't the Greens supported by the Democrats in San Francisco mayoral elections?

No wonder the Greens are pissed, year after year, they are faced with the same scenario of the "politics as usual" by their supposed "Big Brother".

Why ask your neighbor for their support, when you(in the end) don't return the favor?

Why ask for the Greens to support you, when their interests are never represented by you?

Demonizing the Greens and the potential Thrid-party voters is not the answer.

I used to play that "Blame Nader and the Greens" game too.

There's a reason I support Howard Dean.

We really need to get rid of the "politics as usual" Democratic leadership.

[Indiana_Dem]

20. I realize these things and I will vote for the nominee

(I was a Dean supporter but since he isn't campaigning I'm voting for Kucinich in the primary because I want to feel good about voting for someone running that my gut tells me to)

[RetroLounge]

22. If the Democrats don't win

blame it on the weak candidate.

[Rowsdower]

29. damn right!

nominating Kerry guarantees a loss in November. it makes me wonder if all the Kerry supporters pushing him so hard really are democrats. any objective person can see that he is easily the weakest candidate.

[DannyRed]

23. I see it this way:

Kerry (presuming he gets the nomination) and the national Democratic Party, have a chance to run a campaign that will excite and include people who were supporting others in the primaries.

They will have a chance to run a campaign that will energize and recapture disaffected Dems, Greens, Lefties, and etc.

Never before have the differences between the Right and the Center-Liberals been more stark, and never before have the depredations and basic nastiness of the GOP/Right been as clear and present as they are now.

If Kerry and the DNC squander this opportunity to clearly delineate themselves, to clearly articulate just how bad the GOP is, and just how much better the Dems are, and why the Disaffecteds should vote Dem, if only to give themselves the space, time, room, and voice to push for further change in a system that is more conducive to inclusion, argument, and change than a system dominated by the ogres on the Right...

In other words, if they fail to get elected in such an environment, an environment that is marked by extreme hostility, division, fear, and economic/social/political pain, dislocation, and danger caused by the policies and practices of the Right Wing...

Then the Democratic Party is done. Finished.

There is most certainly a responsibility on the part of each and every active Liberal, Leftist, Green, Democrat to engage, to convince, to entreat with their neighbors about the danger, and the opportunity....but the main responsibility lies with the candidate and the party.

That responsibility is based on the need for them to articulate in specific, digestible, exciting, and immediate terms why they should be in office, and why Bush et al should not.

That is what will get the majority of votes, that is what will gain votes from the nearly 50% of the population that does not vote, and that is what will win them this important election.

If Kerry and the Democrats cannot do that (of course in conjunction with the actions and activism of committed political participants in the Democratic Fold)...if they cannot win under these terrible conditions, then they are useless, and they deserve to disintegrate...because then we will know, for sure and certain, that the way forward does not lie with the Democratic Party.

Last Chance, folks.

[eridani]

27. Wrong on 4 and 5

Dems other than Kucinich haven't been advocating 100% universal health care. The ones who support NAFTA/WTO are perfectly prepared to see more jobs go down the drain.

Being right on all the others gets the eventual nominee my vote in November, regardless.