Tonight's Debate Must Have Been A Catastrophe For Mrs. Clinton

[MannyGoldstein]

I didn't see the debate, but all of the usual Clinton backers seem to be gone from DU tonight.

It's interesting... whenever Clinton stumbles, they all disappear for a while, then all return at the same time with the same message.

[Colobo]

1. LOL! It's true.

I'm missing them already.

[Taverner]

2. Do you think this will set her back in Democratic opinion?

Saying she's for staying in Iraq may have hurt her - since I think 08's message will be get out of Iraq even more than 06.

[DURHAM D]

38. No - it will not hurt her.

Don't you think most of America would at least like to get an embassy and OBL's head on a stick out of their sacrifice?

[WCGreen]

75. Unfortuatly, OBL is in Afganistan or Pakistan and no where near

Iraq or Iran....

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skip Intro]

12. I'm sure they're all hiding from you, terrified.

sheesh

[TwilightGardener]

29. Just poking with some good-natured fun...sheesh.

[emilyg]

53. Think she did real good.

[TwilightGardener]

60. Hey, there's one!

:hi:

[emilyg]

73. Hi sweetie !!

[BenDavid]

5. Well I am here, and I do not receive MSNBC

on this Comcast lineup. So, I either have to do a lot of reading from all sources to see how the debates went and how each candidate performed.....So, once I get fully informed about the debate then I will be sure to come back and post whether HRC did good or bad....
Ben David

[tekisui]

6. They went after her tonight.

I expect that will be the story----it was a hit.
She did flounder some and came across defensive, and rehearsed.

[superkia]

21. Except Richardson looking like a moron, Clinton took an ass...

beating tonight. Not that punches were thrown, just facts and she didn't handle the facts very well. She will be fine though, most people don't even follow these debates, as long as the media keeps her name out there non stop, she will be ok. Sad part is the country wont be if she is the nominee.

[liberalmuse]

7. Who are these Clinton backers?

I am here practically all the time, and while I read about them, I never actually see their posts. Weird. I don't know a single person who enthusiastically backs Clinton.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. See Post 4 (nt)

[earthlover]

15. Maybe they are all a single person, and he/she is off tonite in a funk?

One explanation!
Hillary really did poorly tonite. I almost feel sorry for her gaggle.

[juajen]

37. Saying it doesn't make it so.

That's a pug maneuver. For shame!

[emilyg]

54. Now you know me.

[Andromeda]

92. Let me introduce myself...

I'm a Hillary supporter. I don't switch my loyalties at the drop of a hat if my candidate happens not to "perform" perfectly like a trained seal.

And, I'm very enthusiastic about Hillary because I believe she'll make a great president!

[Azathoth]

8. They're all on one big conference call getting their damage-control talking points n/t

[DURHAM D]

9. Sorry Manny - we are right here in all our glory.

Us Hil fans tend to watch quietly as everyone else flaps their clipped wings. It really gets hard to watch after awhile.

Hope you enjoy next week when her numbers go up again.

[More Than A Feeling]

13. I notice you aren't claiming she won the debate.

:P

[DURHAM D]

18. Well, I have not seen the debate.

I listened to the last hour and fifteen on cspan radio. I have it on tivo at home and will watch tomorrow.

However, after the last debate pile on her numbers went up. DUers love it - the rest of the country not so much. In other words, it depends on how you define "won".

[earthlover]

16. she really will thumpt the pols with the drivers license thing...not

major goof....we will see this time and again if she is nominated.

[DURHAM D]

35. Wrong - everyone who lives in a state with a lot of

undocumented workers (drivers) want them to have identification. However, at the moment it has to be addressed as a state issue because the federal government is not attempting to address it.

This is a completely separate issue from border security and guest workers and all of the other complicated issues.

Actually, she stumbled into a real winning issue.

[earthlover]

91. It is a hot button issue, and she basically said give em drivers licenses!

Now the subtleties of tracking them with ids are lost on most. It will just seem absurd to many voters. And Hillary not only gave the Reps ammunition, she flip flopped on the same answer! Maybe not fatal, but huge. For general election that is. It may not affect her being nominated, but it is a guaranteed issue for the general.

[AtomicKitten]

11. The real issues emerge and mud-slinging can't stop the conversation.

[ElizabethDC]

14. I'm still here!

Some people may have gone to bed or had other things to do, you know.

[Skip Intro]

23. He's spinning - in English, "forget Obama's favorite anti-gay hate-preacher, Hillary's confusing" -

deny and deflect, er, I mean, hope for a new way, or whatever...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

34. Harold Mayberry? n/t

[Colobo]

24. Edwards and Obama had great nights and we all should celebrate it.

[goclark]

32. Bounce

:bounce: for you know who ~~~ OBAMA!

[AtomicKitten]

39. I thought Edwards and Obama were amazing tonight.

[Nutmegger]

43. LOL!

I love your ignore sig! :rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

71. It's a zen thing.

;-)

[Andromeda]

93. You just THINK they had a great night.

E and O came across as mean and petty. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could see through their shallow, misleading comments.

This will hurt them more than help them. Wait and see.

[Enrique]

17. maybe we're celebrating her victory

seriously, I missed the debate, is there video online somewhere?

[Catherine Vincent]

19. I guess I'm a backer.

I'm here, until I get sleepy. I also back Edwards and Obama. In fact, I back all of them. I'm not republicanish like some that can't wait to start threads calling Hillary every name in the book to make themselves feel good.

[Andromeda]

94. Yeah, and that pisses me off.

If you like Hillary, this debate will be a blip on the radar. If you don't like her you can always spin it to make her look bad.

Iowa voters don't like negative campaigning and Edwards and Obama didn't help themselves by their petty, mean-spirited attacks on Hillary.

[madrchsod]

20. they are waiting for the latest talking points from

the daily howler and hillary is 44...

[emilyg]

57. Can't you read? We are here.

[Ethelk2044]

22. you are so correct.

[Skip Intro]

26. yet there seem to be a few backers in this thread - so how is he correct?

:shrug:

[FlaxieB]

25. I said the same thing today. The Hillary supporters have run for the hills!

[ElizabethDC]

28. Yes - we've all run away.

Of course, that doesn't explain why I'm still here, but whatever.

[Andromeda]

95. That's funny,

I'm here. Them hills don't beckon to me I reckon. The weather here is fine except for the earthquake we just had.

[babylonsister]

27. No WAY! They're congolmerating for a future message! nt

[CyberPieHole]

48. "congolmerating"?

What the heck is that?:shrug:

[Basileus Basileon]

49. You know. They're, um, golming together. nt

[CyberPieHole]

56. Ahhh...that clears things up.

:spank:

[illinoisprogressive]

30. getting the Penn talking points off Hillaryis44.

[quinnox]

31. not really

I don't participate in the debate threads because I like to form my own opinions about the debate.

Hillary did fine tonight under fire from Edwards and Obama and Dodd and even Biden joined in the attack.

I was proud of "my girl" for holding up under the pressure and not stooping to the level of some of her attackers like Edwards.

Did I think she won the debate? Naw, I think Obama actually had a very good night tonight and gave his best performance I have seen him give so far.

[juajen]

33. Excuse me, I'm here and still backing Hillary.

I think she was evasive, sometimes; but, I believe she felt it was the only thing to do. I think she did very well, considering the hordes coming after her.

[Cha]

41. Yeah, if you're "evasive" then

you better learn how to do it well.

[Orrex]

36. As opposed to Kucinich's acolytes,, for instance

Who never falter in their support regardless of the wacky things that fall out of his unelectable yap.

I'm not a Clinton supporter, except insofar as I'll vote for her if she wins the Primary, but I just don't understand why so many here at DU attack her with more vitriol than the assembled RW Punditry does.

:shrug:

[Catherine Vincent]

45. A lot of these attacks on HRC are coming from trolls.

Mixed in with the Democrats that don't want her as the nominee. Bet on it. I have to keep reminding myself that. They're fooling no one but themselves.

[alittlelark]

40. No cucumbers that I've seen.

I didn't watch the debate, but it sounds bad for HRC.

[Kurovski]

44. .

:spank: :-)

[alittlelark]

47. 'nuff said.

:evilgrin:

[cuke]

66. You calling me out?

Anytime

[alittlelark]

77. I thought you were just a baby 'cuke'

I have no interest in sending a baby out into the 'real world' w/ less than 1 month under its belt (umbilical cord).

Some babies emerge as in "ALIEN' others as in 'Little House on the Prairie' ... The 'little house on the prairie' group are MUCH scarier.

They are smart enough to stay for awhile.


I'd prefer the HONEST ones that shoot out from the chest of a shipmmate.

[Andromeda]

96. It depends on who you listen to.

.

[BenDavid]

42. Well let me say a few things about HRC here, since

all of you that support Obama and Edwards want to go the way of Gore and Kerry. Lets see some thoughts: Hillary was really smart to keep repeating "Bush" and "the Republicans" to keep reminding people who the real enemy is.If there were any quesion about HRC winning the bulk of the women's vote, that ended tonight. HRC withstood an assault from Edwards, Obama, Russert and Williams, and the women watching were saying, "look at these jerks so angry about a smart, assertive woman being the frontrunner. Russert especially was looking pretty angry, like he wanted her to break down, and she did not.( BK's statement)

Well, people who dislike HRC should be very happy tonight. Most of the candidates, the moderators and the commentators after the debate went after HRC and drew some blood. For all those who say that the mainstream media gives HRC a pass, I don't think that you can say that after tonight's debate. One reason of course is the media wants this to be a horserace for their news coverage, and they are going to emphasize the candidate's attacks against her.

But I will say one thing, when Richardson called out Edwards and his attacks on Hillary. I think that was a smart move on his part. Then Kucinich called Edwards out on the Hedge Funds issue. That must have been great television. HRC held her own. They are coming at her from all ends. She's tough.

One thing in closing, if you think Obama did well then when Obama talked about HRC evading the answer about licenses for immigrants in New York, Obama said pretty much the same thing HRC spoke of regarding the Spitzer bill. Obama said he supports it without equivocation, and the folks in New York disagree with Spitzer 72%....

Give Edwards and B+-Obama a B- and HRC a B........

I do thank you

[LeFleur1]

50. Debates?

Hillary did just fine. Obama and Edwards both looked a bit desperate to "bring her down". It didn't happen. All of them had some good ideas and scored some points. I would be happy with any one of these people as President, especially if the rest were in the cabinet in some capacity.

These aren't debates anyway. They are opinions and plans to lead the country forward. None of the candidates should waste time attacking others on the stage. I want them to tell us what their plans are so I can decide which one would be best (in my opinion) for the country. Attacking is Republican and childish, and frankly, I'm sick of it.

I'm always amazed that the moderators, Williams and Russet tonight, blabber on and on, then limit the time that candidates have to answer. If they'd organize themselves and ask the question instead wasting words, grandstanding and trying to be "stars", the candidates would have more time to give their assessment of things.
Russet was his usual argumentative self. He didn't get the idea that he was there to ask some things that people in the country might want to know. He thought he was there because everyone wanted to see and hear HIM argue with answers. I wish they'd get someone capable of asking a question and listening to an answer. Someone who could comprehend the answer, which he seemed unable to do in many
cases.

There is a hunger in the country for people who will say what they think instead of following the directions of some campaign manager whose job it is to manipulate the public. I think (hope) the days of those manipulators are over. My advice to candidates would be: Just Stand and Deliver.

[Andromeda]

99. It was a "gotcha" moment for Russert.

It's a political season and candidates going after each other is normal but there was something unseemly about the way they ganged up on Hillary tonight. When she stumbled on the immigration question Russert smacked her with, Hillary's detractors were almost orgasmic in their glee (especially Chris Matthews) that they caught her being---ambivalent.

Horrors!

Her explanation about undocumented workers was confusing but it's a real stretch to say that she performed badly tonight. She kept her cool under tremendous pressure put upon her by the men eager to slap her down.

One debate isn't going to make any difference in the long run and I expect there will be many more debates before election day.

[emilyg]

59. Thank you.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Colobo]

51. Could be...

[emilyg]

63. Low.

[Colobo]

67. I know 99% of you guys are not.

Don't take everything I post too seriously.

[itsrobert]

62. yup, look at post 42 and 50; almost the same message

back to back

[ShortnFiery]

78. Damn! But these detailed points seem genuine and well versed (albeit same points) and

thoughtful. These may be ESSENTIALLY the same messages that are REPEATED over, and over, and over, ... but they are not nearly as HARSH as those nasty ole' republican "talking points" so it must be OK to think EXACTLY alike ... point by point? :shrug:

[sufrommich]

89. Let's see some proof of that. Seriously.

Too many Clinton supporters on the board?,proof that they're paid to be here. Too few Clinton supporters on the board?,proof that they're "awaiting talking points" from Campaign Central.
It's insulting to every Clinton supporter and Clinton herself that so many here negate her support as being "bought", and the epitome of childishness that so many cannot accept the fact that people can draw their own conclusions and support Clinton without some bizarro conspiracy "paid operatives" theory being the only possible explanation.I'm alerting on every post I see which tries to label " Clinton supporter" as troll or on the payroll,I hope the others do the same. Grow up.

[MannyGoldstein]

98. No. The DU Mods Have Assured Me That There Are No Paid Hillary People Here

And they said that I was ridiculous for even thinking that there might be.

[emilyg]

52. I'm here. Go Hillary.

[Colobo]

55. Not her best night, but she can come back.

[opihimoimoi]

58. Hill more than held her ground...articulate and clearly voicing her thoughts, she did good.

No holes in her body despite all the pitchforks

[emilyg]

61. Yes she did.

[FlaxieB]

72. No Holes? You can drive a semi through her right now!

[Andromeda]

100. Thanks, opi...

:hi:

[ChiciB1]

64. Many Aren't Here... But I See Some!! Could Be New Directives" Are

being hashed out!! They'll be back, but I AM TOO!

[cuke]

65. Right here

Not her best performance, but she made a lot of good points (best one - "I will not repeat republican talking points" in reference to SS) and flubbed one question. Anyone who thinks this is fatal, or even close is seriously deluded

Clinton isn't Obama. She knows how to recover

[Colobo]

68. Obama is the one who is improving his debate performances...

[cuke]

69. I don't think Obama helped himself tonight

If he did, I would say so.

Obama needed to show that he could be aggressive because his backers have been pushing him to do so. He did challenge Hillary some, but it he didn't stand out the way Edwards or Biden did. IMO, it's not that he did badly or flubbed; He just didn't do that great either, and he needed to do well.

[BootinUp]

70. Good grief

Try to get some work done and you are accused of running away.

Hillary did a fine job of weathering the Edwards/Obama/Biden/Dodd/Kucinich/Richardson attacks.

The story is how we will watch the Dems rally around her over the next week, and the attacks backlash on the attackers.

:hi:

[Godhumor]

74. eh, she didn't do badly

She found herself being hit by most of the other candidates, and she did not make any major faux paus while in the crossfire. Her driver's license thing is not nearly as big as some people think it will be, as she essentially said "We need to make a change, I admire Spitzer for deciding to do something about it, but I don't agree with the decision he made." I think that is a legit statement one can make, and it certainly is not a self-destructive comment.

She stumbled at a few points, but she consistently attacked the Republicans, which is what the frontrunner should do (Strategy-wise, it shows she is confident in her poistion and can spend the time going after the other side. It differentiates herself from the other candidates who need to attack her to try and erode her support.). I think this was an average performance that should not see a drop in her popularity, but I doubt it brought anyone to her side.

[ShortnFiery]

76. Whoa! She bombed like the proverbial lead balloon. She was outed in her doublespeak.

It was a horrid performance. Mark Penn is going to have to put out a hell of a lot of push polling and spinning of "women's views" to make up for all the damage that HRC did to HERSELF tonight. :shrug:

[Godhumor]

79. I don't see it that way, sorry

She certainly didn't do anything to drop her out of frontrunner status, in my opinion. Her bad moments were not epic, and this whole thing on doublespeak via the license debate is her stumbling for words. I thought she clarified herself in a disjointed way, but she still clarified herself. She also said the way Spitzer is going about it is not the way she would, and the soundbite does exist of her saying she disagrees with Spitzer's decision. Her answer was awkward, no doubt, but it wasn't a deal-breaker.

[ShortnFiery]

81. Her bad moments were horrific ... and they will be re-lived over and over by the RW noise machine.

Bank on it! Rupert Murdoch sure as hell will *highlight* a couple of profound mistakes from this evening alone should HRC vie in the GE. :shrug:

[Godhumor]

84. I can't really comment on a hypothetical still so far out

But the best indicator of how her comments are perceived will probably be debate fallout in the next week or two--I don't think she slips much, if at all. I may be wrong, but it's a wait and see thing at this point.

[ShortnFiery]

85. Excellent point ... the passage of time will reveal all. No sense in arguing over this "stuff"

:-) :hi:

[Godhumor]

86. Arguing the future is the heart and soul of political discussion

I just take it as a positive sign so many people are involved in this election cycle.

Take care.

[2rth2pwr]

80. People do get off on the negative attacks on her

there is a certain gleefulness that pervades the postings of the anti-Hillary crowd when she is ganged up on.

But she is used to it and will be fine, thanks for the concern.

[ShortnFiery]

83. Oh, it's a free for all. Don't play that "she's a victim" card. Please, not again?

It won't work if she is a contender in the G.E. so she best get her debate skills squared away. Another debate like this, and HRC will tank.

[calteacherguy]

82. Well, you'll be happy to know I'm now leaning towards Obama.

The Earth actually shook here during the debate...maybe it's a sign.

[DFW]

87. I was asleep

We are 7 hours ahead of Eastern time (this week only--after Sunday, it's back to 6).

It sounds like I didn't miss much, not that German TV would have carried it anyway.

[Perry Logan]

88. She was awesome. It was like a religious experience.

[earthlover]

90. religious? more like the Crusades that were unsuccessful!

[More Than A Feeling]

97. That's just the peyote talking.

[laureloak]

101. I now cannot say I will vote for the Dem candidate.

Whoever that might be.

Clinton scared me and I don't think I can vote for her.

[shenmue]

102. That's *Senator* Clinton to you

She's not just Bill Clinton's wife. She is a duly elected member of the Senate of the United States. Show some respect.