I do not defend the homophobic preacher, but the demand that Obama apologize for

[saracat]

involving him in his campaign while the same people feel it is unnecessary to demand that Hillary apologize for her IWAR vote is hypocritical beyond belief.Both these issue need to be dealt with but only one of them is met with a "demand". It is also worth noting that the same people making this demand of Obama have remained silent on the fact that while Hillary is "troubled " By Mukasey refusing to comment on "torture" she will not "rule out " confirming him. These same folks out to be "demanding " that Hillary vote against Mukasey.

[cali]

1. you're making the mistake of throwing everything together.

Obama should apologize. and as I'm not a Clinton supporter, I feel zero need to address the issues you brought up about her.

[saracat]

5. Actually I can't imagine any Democrat not demanding Clinton apologize as well as Obama.

Why is a different standard applied to Obama? As I said, "both" should apologize.

[gratuitous]

2. I'm demanding apologies and amends for both

So what does that make me? Too "pure" or too "demanding" or too "radical" for either candidate to appeal to? I refuse to sacrifice my gay brothers and sisters in service of one candidate, just as I refuse to trim the constitution and international treaties to suit another.

[2rth2pwr]

3. Do you want him to apologize?

just checking

[saracat]

4. Both should apologize. But to lambast one candidate and give another a pass is not acceptable.

[Ethelk2044]

58. AMEN

[cuke]

6. Her IWR vote was homophobic?

[mrgorth]

9. It was

human-phobic.

[cuke]

11. She's afraid of humans?

[Clintonista2]

105. You would think a "humanphobe" wouldn't run for president...

Oh wait. He doesn't think.

[Rowdyboy]

7. I'll be happy to make my choice with no apology from either......John and Elizabeth Edwards

are heads above these two. If it narrows to Clinton/Obama I'll back Clinton because she knows how to run a first class, professinal campaign.

There, problem solved with no apologies from anyone.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. You do know that knowing how to run a campaign has little if anything

to do with actually governing, don't you?

Consider the Chimp.

[jonnyblitz]

8. you know what , Saracat? you seem to latch on to any issue

that comes around and try to make it into a rant about Hillary. You are so transparent and your posts so ridiculous I don't understand why people even care to respond to you or take you seriously anymore even if they share your dislike for her.

[ElizabethDC]

10. So you've noticed it, too?

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[cuke]

13. She will say anything

In one thread, she claimed the Bill Clinton was both "an ordinary citizen like every one else" *AND* "a former president who should never express contempt for another citizen"

[saracat]

20. And I stand by that. Too bad some have a problem with it. George Washington understood the concept .

A president is an ordinary citizen and he owes respect to the other citizens for whom he has chosen to be a "public servant". All of our candidates are vying to provide "public service".We are potentially their employers.They want us to give them a job. They want to work for us , not the other way around.

[cuke]

Thanks for proving my point

[DURHAM D]

16. It is obviously personal ...

I am guessing sauerkraut wanted a job with the Clinton campaign and failed to score.

[emilyg]

101. You're not the only one.

[ccpup]

14. nailed it!

I've learned long ago to expect one of two things from this OP. 1) the OP will DEMAND something and 2) the OP will turn everything into an insufferable rant about Hillary.

Okay, we GOT it! The OP doesn't like Hillary!!!!!

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DURHAM D]

32. You don't remember the one about Hillary's appearance?

The OP started a thread to critique and provide constructive criticism after Hillary appeared in a debate or an interview on tv.

We were told it was for the purpose of "helping" Hillary. OP talked (was overly critical) about her hair, her makeup, her jewelery, her clothing, etc. and we were told it was out of love and professional concern because OP is an image consultant.

[saracat]

35. And I am a consultant and I did NOT say it was out of "love " and "concern".

She was NOT at her best and I was not "overly critical". No one ever has noticed when I have complimented her appearance. But yowza, if I noticed they let her out looking less than her best, that is quoted for ever.I am so glad Hillary is supernatural and NEVER has a bad day..And if she does no one notices because to do so is misogynistic.So I noticed she didn't have a "good day". I was interested in the handlers choices and why that was.I am just amazed at how impossible it is to even offer a "critique" of this candidate.

[Cameron27]

15. Thank you,

:thumbsup:

[obnoxiousdrunk]

17. You got that right.

[mondo joe]

22. True. There's a fire? Why not blame Hillary?

[Ethelk2044]

59. Her stance with Mulberry is the same DAMN thing no matter how you try to spin it.

[mondo joe]

75. Did Hilllary give Mulberry a free audience to spew anti gay shit?

[saracat]

82. No she gave Bush a free hand to go to war and didn't apologize for it. She also is "hanging tough

on Iran " and doesn't apologize.

[mondo joe]

89. Please don't try to hijack this subthread, which is about a specific issue and

person.

[Clintonista2]

26. Bingo!

[Forkboy]

12. None of the apologies mean squat to me as it is, and her's would be false anyways.

Why bother apologizing if it isn't sincere? Hillary isn't sorry the war happened, just that it didn't go smooth enough to take any credit for.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. You Make A Great Point

"Everybody" loves a war with a positive conclusion...

If Iraq ended up like Germany and Japan and not Lebanon circa 1975 the Rethuglicans would still control Congress...Most folks don't hate war...They only hate war that doesn't go very well...

[FredScuttle]

19. What does one have to do with the other?

Why is it so hard to say "Obama, or his campaign staff, fucked up royally and he really needs to apologize to his LGBT supporters"?

This has fuck-all to do with Hillary or any other candidate.

[saracat]

23. But why don't the same people think Hillary should admit she "fucked up royally" with her IWAR vote?

Or perhaps they think her vote was correct? Why are two reprehensible actions not treated equally? That is the question.

[Tellurian]

25. ***YAWN***

[saracat]

27. Tellurian must support the WAR then.Yawn to you.Only other candidatesare held to account.

[cali]

29. I suggest you take a look at the posts in this thread

people have begun to view you as deranged by your hatred of all things Clinton, and no, it's not just the Clinton supporters.

Is that what you really want?

[saracat]

33. I am deranged because I do not understand the lack of parity in candidate accountability?

[cuke]

36. Candidate Parity?

You mean you've been doing this for all the candidates, and not just Hillary?

[saracat]

45. Only these two candidates have obvious issues that need to be apologized for.

The other candidates have dealt with their issues.

[cuke]

49. The other candidates are perfect?

So why are you supporting an imperfect one who has yet to apologize?

[saracat]

52. Who is that?

And no candidate is perfect. These two are the only ones with major issues.

[cuke]

53. So you support a candidate with a major issue over one with no major issues?

[saracat]

60. What candidate are you talking about? I can't even begin to fathom you statements.

[cuke]

62. Biden, Dodd, Kucinich, Richardson, Gravel,

They have no major issues (according to you) yet you support a candidate with a major issue who has yet to apologize

[saracat]

64. Who are you claiming I support? As for those you mentioned they

are not dealing with major faux pas(except for maybe Gravel) in the media. What other candidate , that needs to,hasn't "apologized" for a big issue?

[DURHAM D]

67. OP is an Edwards supporter. n/t

[cuke]

68. You mean the one who co-sponsored IWR?

And only apologized for voting for it, and not for co-sponsoring it? The one who voted for all sorts of nonsense while in the Senate? Has he apologized for those votes?

After all, the OP is ALL ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY

[DURHAM D]

73. Yep - that's her guy. n/t

[ElizabethDC]

54. I very much doubt that. Their mistakes just get much more attention b/c they're the front-runners.nt

[saracat]

61. THat may very well be true. These are the two the media has made us aware of.

I did state none are perfect.

[cuke]

69. You are only aware of two candidates?

[FredScuttle]

38. How about ONE candidate's accountability?

Obama.

What is blocking you from acknowledging what he did was wrong?

I'm asking you this seriously, as a non-Hillary partisan.

[saracat]

41. When did I not admit Obama was wrong? Sheesh. But Hillary should be held to account as well.

[cuke]

44. Should Obama apologize?

[saracat]

47. Of course.So should Hillary for IWAR. How many times do I have to state that?

[cuke]

50. So you'll be witholding support from Obama until he apologizes?

[saracat]

56. Obama is not my choice.

[cuke]

63. So you use Obama's mistake to attack Clinton?

Has Edwards apologized for co-sponsoring IWR?

[saracat]

65. Yes.He has.

[cuke]

70. No, he hasn't

He apologized for voting for it, but not for co-sponsoring it. How about the other things he voted for? Can you link to all those apologies?

[saracat]

76. Are you asking me to find a bigger list for Hillary too? I am addressing

only these two issues in the Op.

[cuke]

78. I'm asking why you support the guy with a Major Issue?

Co-sponsoring IWR and not apologizing is a major issue for those like you obsessed with accountability

[saracat]

80. I believe admitting he was "wrong" about the IWAR encompasses both issues. Hillary has NEVER

apologized for ANYTHING. Why is that acceptable unless you think her vote was okay?

[cuke]

81. He apologized for voting for IWR

not a word about his co-sponsoring it.

[saracat]

84. Hillary has apologized for NOTHING.

[cuke]

87. Edwards has not apologized for co-sponsoring IWR

[mondo joe]

90. An apology and a buck 25 will get you a coffee.

I'm really not very moved by apologies.

[cuke]

93. What it won't get is the OP's support

The OP doesn't want HRC to apologize

[cali]

46. I couldn't have been clearer: It's your hatred of all things

Clinton, that I believe is akin to derangement on that particular subject.

[saracat]

48. Are you stating that if I do not support or "like " Hillary or I disagree with the Clinton's

I must be "deranged"? Then I have a lot of company. Make no mistake, the more I learn, the less I like them. I do not want Hillary as our nominee. I think she is corrupt and a corporate sellout.I am entitled to that opinion.She is the only candidate that I have trouble supporting in any way.Why is that "deranged" to you? I find it crazy that she is not held to account for any of her actions or statements.

[cali]

51. no. it's the quantity and tone of your posts about her that are

so strange. You jump on her for absolutely absurd things, from how she dresses to giving the cat away. It's obsessive, imo. and it's not criticism. it's just weird. I'm hardly the only person here who's noticed.

I criticize her, but I'm not choking on hate for her. You are.

[saracat]

55. I did NOT jump on her for how she dresses. I jumped on her stff for a"single " appearance.

And I did NOT say anything about the "cat issue".That was NOT me.Though I am a cat lover and would NEVER for any reason give mine away but that is subjective.She didn't dump SOCKS in the stree AFAIK. What is obsessive is not being able to say anything about one candidate without a posse showing up to call one "stupid", "ignorant" or a "liar" There are several posters "literally" choking on their hate of Edwards, and no one finds them "deranged".Odd.

[cuke]

66. McGovern is senile. Guiliani is a progressive

criticizing Hillary for being "stiff" (which you just admitted to, as if you really care about HRC looking stiff)

[saracat]

74. So?

[cuke]

77. That;s why I thnk you're deranged

[saracat]

79. And yet I have never called any poster names.

[cuke]

83. I see deleted posts

that used to have your name on them.

[saracat]

85. I have never called a poster names. Period.

[cuke]

88. Your deranged emotions have led you to break the rules

[saracat]

92. Name calling again. "deranged' because I do not support a certain candidate?

Why don't you call those that rip into Edwards or Obama "deranged" Or it that acceptable? Some of the garbage I have seen spouted by other candiate supporter about those two has ben reprehensible yet you don't call any of them on it.

[cuke]

94. McGovern is senile. Guiliani is a progressive

Clinton is just an ordinary citizen like every other, but not like any other because he is an ex-pres, and on and on and on and on

[saracat]

98. Yes. I stand by it. But I have not called "posters " names.

[cuke]

102. So you still think McGovern is senile?

Even after you told me you were wrong?

[saracat]

111. So why do you ask if you know the answer? This isn't about McGovern or what I said.

Talk about obsessive. I said what I said.

[Clintonista2]

95. "Though I am a cat lover and would NEVER for any reason give mine away"

You're so transparent. I'm glad the rest of DU sees you for what you really are.

[saracat]

99. I wouldn't give mine away.So? I didn't post the stuff about Socks.I didn't.

I guess I don't have the right to not give my cats away? But I did post about my disgust with those who let their animals does in the California fires. And that has NOTHING to do with Hillary.

[Clintonista2]

104. So you attack Hillary about Socks the cat in a post explaining how you didn't attack her over socks

[saracat]

107. Stop being silly. I did no such thing.

[bigwillq]

30. I am well aware of Hill's stances

on Mukasey and her Iran leanings. She will not get my vote in the primary and yes we should be outraged by Hillary's actions concerning these two issues and many others.

But Obama will not get my primary vote either. His behavior regarding the McClurkin mess is unforgivable.

[saracat]

57. And that is fair.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElizabethDC]

34. What we're told to do? By whom?

I guess I've been left out of this gang.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. Why Do You Repeat The Libel That Got Your Last Thread Closed?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3662606&mesg_id=3662606

[Cameron27]

39. Flaxie's gone.

[QC]

40. She's aching for that tombstone. n/t

[FredScuttle]

42. And there goes Flaxie......

WHOOOSH!

[FlaxieB]

71. Hello.

[TrogL]

43. anti-ex-gay resources

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/orient.html

[rjones2818]

72. Y'know...

When Obama appologizes for his votes for funding the Iraq war, then maybe he'll have something on Hillary.

[SaveElmer]

86. Pathetic...everything is about Hillary with you...

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other...

Your kind of obsession is not healthy...you need a break!

[saracat]

91. And it isn't with you? You spend just as much time leaping in to defend her!

I jus happen to think both these issues are equally deserving of a candidate apology.Some think Hillary has nothing to be held accoubntable for while other candidate must tow the line.That is unfair.

[cuke]

96. And calling McGovern "senile" was very fair of you

It's obvious you're all about fairness

[saracat]

100. So. I have a right to my opinion. He was an idol of mine and I can feel however I want. Tough.

I do not respect his decison.This issue has been dealt with.Move On.

[cuke]

103. Senility isn't an opinion. It's a medical fact, Either you are or you aren't

You have a right to your own opinions. You have no right to your own facts

[Cameron27]

97. For heaven's sake

Clinton's 'held accountable' every single day here. If there's not at least 3 negative threads running in GD-P it's a slow day.

[SaveElmer]

106. First...

If you are seriously arguing that people here are not clamoring for Hillary to "apologize" for her IWR vote, you have not been paying attention...in the extreme...

Second, she has nothing to apologize for. Unlike Edwards who felt the need to grovel to the netroots with a , Hillary is not going to "apologize" for doing her job...

Third, there is a difference between positive support for a candidate and someone who is obsessed with conspiracies where none exist, linkages where none exist, and weird criticisms all in the name of bringing someone down....of course the kind of obsession you, and the right wing in this country display towards Hillary will only aid her....

[saracat]

108. IWAR was "doing her job" ? We will have to disagree.

And are you inferring I am RW by lumping me in with them? Is it possible you actually believe that those of us who think Hillary is a disaster are all RW? Talk about links where there are none.

[SaveElmer]

109. When you use the same tactics as the RW...

Yes I am lumping you in with them...

But to be fair, you aren't the only one

[saracat]

110. Well I "could " say the same for you, But I won't.I just think you are

mistaken in your choices.