I have changed my position on the Obama-McClurkin issue after defending Obama

[CreekDog]

Now that McClurkin has used his microphone to say the following:

“God delivered me from homosexuality,”

Obama is now, not merely hiring a gospel singer to entertain, but given him a platform to state his views. There is no politically expedient way to deal with this --it will hurt no matter what he does.

However, now that his performer has spoken about his views in Obama's own venue, the message is going to be associated with Obama, and this is NOW fair, unless and until Obama does something concrete about it.

But the sad thing is that this has become the main thing we are hearing about Obama lately (rather than his catching up in Iowa which should be the primary story). I don't think this turn of events is helping him and the concerts are probably becoming a liability. Further, now Obama must deal with the fact that he is giving platform to a man who is saying what Obama probably doesn't believe and doesn't agree with.

I don't know what should be done, but I'm not going to defend this anymore.

[zulchzulu]

1. A couple things...

Donnie McClurkin performed at one concert, albeit that sucks. It's not "concerts"...

Also, Barack Obama stated it clearly when he said about McClurkin:

"I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts of our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

- Barack Obama
10/22/07

[CreekDog]

4. It was the Sunday night concert that he said this

And I thought there were other concerts, though he did not make these statements at those.

That is the problem with poor vetting at campaign events. Now that McClurkin has made the offending statement on Obama's dime, Obama is now responsible for giving him that opportunity. It could be seen as a tacit endorsement of those statements if something isn't changed.

If Obama had a great singer at his concerts that denied the holocaust, that wouldn't make Obama a denier himself, but if that person used the concerts to state those beliefs, Obama would have responsibility to do something about it and could not make a statement and then simultaneously allow it to go on.

I don't believe that one is responsible for what associates do, however, one is complicit if they provide the forum where the associate does it and allows them to continue without correction and some form of the offender making it right as a condition of continuing.

[MethuenProgressive]

34. Actions speak louder than words. Barack's lack of action speaks volumes.

By intentionally not heeding the calls to remove the anti-gay bigot from his fundraising Gospel Tour, Barack Obama sent two messages, one the gay community and one to the evangelical community.

[pingzing58]

2. Ok, as a political consulatant what would you say...I think the following: This is just one man's

experience. There are people who have different experiences and "I want to affirm everyone's experience because I defend the right of all people on the continuum from totally straight to totally gay to live in freedom from oppression in the work place and in society and before the law for every American!"

[pnwmom]

16. But by giving McJerkin a forum, Obama is implying the opposite. n/t

[CreekDog]

19. And McClurkin used that forum

so, yeah, a big problem.

[pingzing58]

31. As a Liberal I would defend McClurkin's right to believe that God changed him. But it's not every

one's experience and I would defend their experience as well. Equal before the law! And, before God to add a religious tone to the statement.

[yardwork]

44. McClurkin's beliefs are one thing. However, he's made a career out of homophobia.

McClurkin's entire gig is to go around the country singing songs and telling people that God "saved him" from being gay, and that they too can be saved from the horrible evil oppression of being gay. McClurkin's message is that gay people are terribly sick and evil and filled with sin, but if they pray hard enough, God will make them straight.

This is bigotry, and Obama headlined it at a campaign event. Not ok.

[Imagevision]

3. From what I've seen Obama would run circles around Hillary in a debate without

breaking a sweat and Hillary knows it!

[CreekDog]

5. That's not the issue I'm talking about nt

[rodeodance]

6. well, tune in tomorrow night

[emilyg]

9. Why does it always come back to Hillary. And he hasn't run circles around her. Have you not watche

[jonnyblitz]

11. because they have nothing else.nt

[CreekDog]

13. I just said Obama now has to take resonsibility for what is said

at his concerts.

That would be the right thing to do, but he's going to piss off the people he brought to the concerts as much as he pissed off those who were offended by the mere presence of McClurkin.

No, I don't think Obama is a bad guy and I do think he is a gifted politician, but this is now definitely going against his values and if he doesn't do something about it, he will be responsible for sponsoring an event that mocks his values of inclusion and acceptance.

It's not a good situation.

If Obama had said to McClurkin, privately before this concert, "I'm not giving you the stage to make gay people feel like sinners for being gay, if you cannot abide that, you need to excuse yourself from this tour." And he can add, "I would fight for your right to say what you think, even though I disagree, but I will not pay to give you a microphone to say it with.

And McClurkin would probably bow out. Getting out now is going to draw yet more attention and the offending words were now uttered on Obama's stage. No more hands off now.

[jonnyblitz]

18. this is an interesting thread to read. I am glad you started it.

I appreciate hearing your point of view on this. I am a bit more angry and admittedly MUCH LESS civil. if I get posts deleted or if I get reprimanded by mods via PM then it's what I deserve, I know the rules. all this just gets me FUMING and I don't appreciate the excuses being made by the apologists, ESPECIALLY after all that has come out about this situation.

[CreekDog]

20. i owed it to everyone after defending him

my defense of Obama was that he just had singer at a concert. but now that has become a forum for the guy's views.

so my opinion has changed.

the responsible thing to do, even if not politically expedient, is to get this guy off the tour and state how he disagrees.

[jonnyblitz]

22. it will be interesting to see what transpires. nt

[cuke]

32. I blame rabies

[denem]

33. Those golden retrievers are killers I tell you, killers!

They're rabid without rabies. Mark my words, they'll tear you limb from limb.

[daninthemoon]

7. I still don't understand what exactly this event was. I read on

another thread that Obama wasn't even there, just a tape. Was this some fundie event that Obama latched onto, or did he organize the thing? Are there going to be more, and if so, will he be at them, or just the tape? Reading some of the text of McClurkins comments during the show, was the whole event supposed to be primarily about "saving/curing" gays? Before the event, I assumed Obama would use the forum to speak on tolerance and inclusiveness. It appears the whole thing was opposite that, and at least as bad as DUers were warning. It better come up during the "debate" Tuesday.

[yardwork]

45. It was a fundraiser organized and run by Obama's campaign.

Obama's campaign staffers planned, organized, and ran the event. Obama was shown on video introducing McClurkin as one of his favorite singers. Obama strongly endorsed McClurkin, who was the Master of Ceremonies for the entire evening, and spoke at great length about how God "saved" him from being gay.

Obama's endorsement of McClurkin served as an effective endorsement of McClurkin's message.

[CreekDog]

8. Here's a link about the Sunday concert:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/29/obamas-gospel-concert-tour/

“God delivered me from homosexuality,” he added. He then told the audience to believe the Bible over the blogs: “God is the only way.” The crowd sang and clapped along in full support."

[young_at_heart]

10. I received an e-mail today with a photo of Obama not holding his hand over his heart

This is from an acquaintance who sent it to lots of other people and I can tell she really was offended. Here is how the e-mail began:

"Can anyone honestly elect this man President of the United States of America?

I had heard about this but a picture is definitely worth 1000 words! God save us!!!"

[jonnyblitz]

12. now THAT is a stupid reason to be mad at him, IMHO. nt

[young_at_heart]

14. I agree---just reporting on the absurdity of this sort of thing

It feels like "Swift-Boating" is starting early!

[yardwork]

41. So you equate speaking up against bigotry with swift-boating?

Expressing disappointment that a presidential candidate gave a forum to a bigot is the same as telling lies about the candidate? Is that what you're saying? Gay people deserve so little respect that speaking up for our rights is the same as telling lies about a candidate?

[hisownpetard]

15. And if he *had* put his hand over his heart, they'd claim it was to cover the fact that

he wasn't wearing his tin I'm-a-Bush-lovin'-flag-wavin'-liein'-cheatin'-Amurriken-flag pin.

[jonnyblitz]

24. I thought it was cool how he said screw the flag pin.

too bad about this other stuff this weekend, though. :( it has pissed me off to no end.

[hisownpetard]

35. Extremely cool about the flag pin, but I'm with you about this Donnie McGherkin thing.

[yardwork]

42. I agree on both counts. Obama was great about the flag pin.

Giving the mic to a homophobe was very uncool, though.

[mzmolly]

17. Answered my own question, sorry.

:blush:

[pnwmom]

21. I'm not sure if he paid McClurkin, but the event was billed

as a fundraiser for Obama.

[mzmolly]

25. I just read the advocate interview,

thanks pnwmom.

:hi:

[CreekDog]

23. It was Obama's venue, like it or not nt

[calteacherguy]

26. There's nothing wrong with giving a platform to someone with whom you disagree with.

Have a little faith in the power truth! If we can get McClurkin types to vote for a pro-gay rights Democrat, I say so much the better!

[CreekDog]

27. I agree with your 2nd point, but not your 1st

Especially when it concerns calling a bunch of people sinners for being gay.

That's different than giving a platform to someone who thinks the earned income tax credit should be larger than you think.

Quite different.

If they can get those voters, great, but not this way. If it was simply music, that would be one thing, but it's a revival meeting now --that's different.

[calteacherguy]

28. I just put up a poll...check it out. nt

[CreekDog]

29. eek, hard to understand poll you got there

I would rather the attendees vote for Obama, that's true. But I'd prefer Obama not give a platform for spreading a message that Obama is against especially when that message impugns people for who they are as gay people.

While I believe that people can genuinely believe in rights for all and still believe their church's teaching that homosexuality is a sin, I believe that for Obama to sanction and provide a venue for that message in order to get votes is a real problem.

Worse, it's hypocrisy that is worse than the normal hypocrisy politicians engage in. It's benefitting from a position that he is appraently quite opposed to.

[Guaranteed]

30. This post marks the beginning of the "mob mentality," "pile-on"

portion of this controversy.

Enjoy.

[CreekDog]

36. My post is certainly not reflective of mob mentality

First, I began defending Obama and McClurkin UNTIL

McClurkin used Obama's venue to preach that gays essentially are sinners.

My point was not to muzzle anybody, but Obama need not and should not give a microphone to someone who is going to preach in opposition to his values as part of his campaign.

Just like I would not invite someone of another religion to preach in the pulpit of my church, though I would defend their right to preach in general, I am not obligated to provide them a venue to do it, there are other forums available to do that.

This is not reflective of Obama's values.

[Dawgs]

37. I'm sorry to hear that you defended it all. I'm an Obama supporter (still!!) but..

could never defend how he handled this. I believe that he will fight for GLBT rights as much as anyone else, so I will always support him, but his campaign handled it terribly.

[CreekDog]

38. we can agree to disagree on that, but it goes to show you

that now that we agree that it is bad, that an arguably bad situation has become an undeniably bad situation.

and for Obama's supporters, they are now spending time defending him (forcing them into a negative dialectic) instead of praising him which is the kind of thing that changes minds to support him.

this is a lose lose now. it didn't have to turn out that way even after the initial selection of McClurkin, but now there is no way to deal with this in an un-messy way.

yes, he can move on and come back --it just got harder and Obama is already behind, losing time to close the gap.

[yardwork]

39. Thank you very much.

[FredScuttle]

40. A stand-up post in this circus

Cheers.

[Bluebear]

43. Absolutely a stand-up post.

[cobalt1999]

46. It takes a big man to admit his mistakes publically.

You are a person of character.