Olive Branch to Obama supporters...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

I have said some very rude things to some Obama supporters (in a just cause, but still rude.) Looking back on things, I suspect a few Obama supporters were acting as persons of good-will who were genuinely blind-sided by the McClurkin controversy because it seemed so outside their conception of their candidate. Fair enough.

I don't think Obama is a bad man. I think he is a politician. There is a badness in being a politician, but non-politicians can't win elections. These candidates are hired-guns, not messiahs. We hire them in the primaries to win for our party.

I do not think he is any worse, as a human being, than Biden or Clinton, who I support to different degrees. The McClurkin thing outrages me on a personal level, but everyone has their hot-button issues.

To me, Clinton's Kyl/Lieberman vote was a practical (and necessary) play aimed at a very tight race with Guliani in Florida. To others, it is a serious moral problem. I don't need to diminish their passionately held belief... we just disagree. I think we might need Florida, and Guliani is so bat-shit crazy that we can run him off the road on national security issues... hugging him from the left so tightly that he has to drive off the road to open up any differences.

But I concede that Dems can be sincere in their opposition to that vote, and consider it a legitimate deal-breaker. Fair enough.

Every single person in this race has done something at one time or another for purely political reasons that would be a deal-breaker to me in the abstract. (I like Biden even though I have suffered a great deal personally from certain credit card policies that should be illegal.)

But, the fact is that somebody has to get the nomination. Our nominee will be flawed... and so it has always been, and will always be.

May the (relatively) best man or woman win. (And, for the record, if Obama wins the nomination I will crawl through broken glass to vote for him... same as I will for any Dem in the race.)

[Vilis Veritas]

1. Will I get unlimited salad and bread?

Oh, my bad...I thought you said Olive Garden...

:hide:

[Debi]

4. !!

:spray:

[cuke]

9. OK, fess up!

Who opened the Gates of The Lounge?

[Debi]

22. I haven't been there in ages....

:yoiks:

Bet they revoked my membership :cry:

[Vilis Veritas]

40. uhmmm...me?

I hope I won't be banished or something...do they serve peanuts?

[cuke]

55. Banished??!! Are you kidding?

You'll be welcomed as a liberator

[Vilis Veritas]

57. LOL!!!

Thanks!...

Perhaps, I can buy you a round sometime at the DU Lounge...

Peace.

[Kagemusha]

2. Obama is a greater hate figure among Democrats now than David Duke.

By pure overwhelming hatred of the netroots alone, Obama is expected to be utterly finished in national politics, a pariah who is

a) a bigot writ large
b) a racist against blacks for selling them too short
c) a hypocrite who cannot say a single word of disagreement with other candidates without being hailed as such
d) a towering figure of all that is wrong and evil in America today.

So I don't see what there is that's left to say. To anyone. With anyone. About anything.

[jonnyblitz]

3. I have no beef with them in regards to their continued support

of Obama,that is there business, but for SOME of them to continue to try to spin this weekend as though nothing was wrong and that we who are concerned are some how disinegenous or at fault or racist or HIllary supporters, well, that is just fucking INSANE and I have NO respect for THOSE Obama supporters.

and to those of you that kept wanting to bring Hillary up to deflect attention from Obama at every turn. that was seriously LAME.

[William769]

5. The die has been cast..

I saw some who were sincerely upset over the matter. For those supporters of Obama I do feel really bad.

But some just refuse to admit what this stunt really was. For those there will never be a olive branch.

[Nedsdag]

10. I agree Kurt.

Unlike SOME people in DU!

[William769]

11. And who would that be?

You did read what I wrote, didn't you?

[Nedsdag]

25. You claimed that I didn't deserve an olive branch, am I correct?

n/t

[William769]

27. Where did I claim that?

I made no such assertion about you personally. Now if you happen to fail into the latter of the two categories that I posted about, then you are correct.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. Actually, I (Kurt) agree with William769

The olive branch is for Obama supporters of good-will who were blinded to the true nature of the strategy being employed.

For the handful of smear-and-distract folks who were trying to wound and diminish... sneering at all offense as being "faux outrage", "histrionics" and "Just a Clinton campaign stunt," are particularly anyone who suggested that McClurkin detractors were racists, there is no olive branch. (Nor would they want one... )

[Nedsdag]

33. Kurt, William,

I have never said that McClurkin detractors were racists. I was just going by people I knew who didn't think this was a big deal. If anything they cannot believe people actually took McClurkin seriously. Two of my colleagues, who are gay by the way, didn't understand what the fuss was about. Are they "sellouts" or "Uncle Toms?"

Please tell me so I can tell them.

[William769]

37. I love when people post about friends.

But we are the real deal here.

[Nedsdag]

38. My colleagues are as active as you are.

They just don't post at DU.

[William769]

39. Maybe they should.

I can't respond to people that are not here.

[Nedsdag]

47. Actually, they are on other blogs.

Just not DU.

[jefferson_dem]

6. This Obama supporter appreciates your words, Kurt_and_Hunter.

:toast:

Onward...

[goclark]

7. Ditto ~

[nickgutierrez]

8. Whoever the candidate may be...

...they're bound to be better than the Republicans. I mean, really - listen to them. They're nuts.

Signed,
An Obama supporter not happy about the McClurkin event

[CTLawGuy]

13. I'm upset the guy was allowed to talk about his views

this doesn't look good for Obama. But no one's perfect and I still support him. Thousands did not die because of this, nor did this drain billions out of our treasury. IMHO voting for IWR was worse, and I refuse to reward anyone who did vote for it with my primary vote. That said, he had better clean up his act and respect his base.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Bluebear]

14. 'Thousands did not die because of this' - Matt Shepard.....

that's only one whose name you probably know. :(

[CTLawGuy]

16. Donnie McClurkin speaking here

killed Matt Shepard??

are you seriously arguing this is as destructive as passing the bill that allowed Bush to launch the Iraq War?

[Bluebear]

19. Yes, yes I am. Giving a stage to bigotry is dangerous. Excusing it is dangerous.

[JackBeck]

15. Thousands of the LGBT community have paid with their lives.

Not to mention the ones killed during the Holocaust.

[CTLawGuy]

17. because of Donnie McClurkin' appearance?

I didn't think you could kill someone back in time.

Also, are you suggesting McClurkin is responsible for the Holocaust?

[JackBeck]

18. Because of McClurkin's bigotry, which he continues to perpetuate.

[William769]

20. Some people just don't seem to be able to get over that little fact.

[Sandaasu]

21. Actually...

According to the CDC, the rate of suicide attempts by gay male adolescents is two to three times that of their heterosexual peers. It's not a stretch to say that the whole "ex-gay" thing that Donnie promotes plays a part in this.

So yes, I'd say that he, and those like him, have blood on their hands too.

[AtomicKitten]

23. Too late for two DU'ers who have left because of the pile-on on Obama.

[William769]

28. What a pity.

:sarcasm:

[AtomicKitten]

29. it is because people like you are still here

But then again a-hole frequently upstages a good heart in our world, so the exodus of two wonderful people is a pity you couldn't possibly understand.

[William769]

30. And guess what?

I'm not going anywhere! Bigotry needs to be fought on DU just as anyplace else.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[William769]

35. How so?

Or is this just more foaming at the mouth for you?

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jefferson_dem]

31. That fucking comment wasn't even worthy of a reply in my view.

What a sad little shit.

[ShortnFiery]

42. I regret that you too have been caught up by a very skilled feint.

But what the hell do I know - for sure? I've only worked in the intelligence field and have earned a masters in psychology (to include thesis ;) ).

Newsflash: With genuine respect because I usually enjoy your posts - you and far too many Obama supporters have been played like a Stradivarius violin. The hilarious but sad part, is that NOW you are *thanking* the main smear campaigner. "Thank you sir may I have another?" :crazy: :(

Damn, I best get into my second love, "Animal Behavior and Training" because the more I learn about human behavior, the more I ADORE (and prefer) my K9s + a few humans on the side. ;)

[rucky]

53. That sucks.

Last primary was brutal, but it hardly ever got personal like this one.

I hope it's not the two I think they might be.

[phen43]

24. olive branch accepted

[jenmito]

26. Thank you.

:hi:

[Grandrose]

34. Very gracious! (K&R)

Thank you.
I must say it was a very bad mistake to have McClurkin, but the hate and piling on was terribly hurtful to those of us who support the gay community!
:thumbsup: :kick:

[ShortnFiery]

41. IMO, this was a well orchestrated "campaign of disrespect" by extension.

IMO, THE UNDERLYING motivations reveal all :evilgrin: :crazy: ... the CORE information was true, but it SPUN into absurdity, and many GOOD people were caught in the undertow. I am only sorry that far too many of my fellow Obama supporters considered your threads, in any way, an OPEN, UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE public service from an opponent's camp. :(

Although I have no sentiments toward your person, I consider your threads that were clearly meant to inflame over the past two days abhorrent. As such, no, I can't accept your figurative "Olive Branch" because I believe it's about as genuine as the original SMEAR threads.


If you're done slamming our candidate and choose to focus on the good qualities of yours? ... Then YES!

Alleluia! Non-smear threads are those types of interactions that I can avidly applaud.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

43. My sympathy for any Obama supporters caught off guard is real

I have little sympathy for Obama himself in this matter, nor have I pretended to. His supporters are a different matter... some of them seem like really nice people. Others are terrible. People are people. But either way, the campaign left them hanging, and that's no fun.

As to whether my posts have been calculated to SMEAR Obama... they were certainly calculated to criticize a course of action by Obama in harsh terms, but Obama smeared himself. I was not waiting for an opportunity to hurt Obama. This thing came along out of the blue, and I have a very real and heartfelt take on this, independent of any candidate versus candidate issues.

Had a candidate I liked more followed this same course of action I would not have offered a word of defense of it. I might have left DU for a while out of embarassment, but I would not rationalize it. (Anymore than I would try to rationalize HRC's IWR vote, which was clearly wrong.)

As to whether this has been a devious campaign... I never saw it as a campaign. This story has unfolded on its own with no help from me. I have merely reacted, event by event, post by post, with no "plan." If my communication skills are good, that's not sinister in and of itself. There is nothing sinister in saying, "I think this thing, and I wish to persuade others to share that view." That describes the bulk of all posts here... people want to present their views well and persuasively.

As for coordination, I have never communicted with anyone of this board except in open posts.

[ShortnFiery]

44. Oh, please, just give it a rest, you'll not EVER convince me.

Go forth ole' wise one of many flowery, albeit, IMO, meaningless words. :eyes:

Later! Hopefully, much later. ;)

[William769]

45. Well I guess we know what category you fall into. NT

[Karenina]

48. Wonder what flavor of Kool-Aid it was.

[ShortnFiery]

49. Gee, here I thought you were a proponent of

your heroine's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" philosophy? I can't tell you, as a former Army Officer, how many good people were Washed Out of the service under Bill Clinton regardless of that disgusting, half step policy. It was as discriminatory as the President I served under, Saint Ronnie.

I remember being in a Battalion Formation (1983) and having the Commander, a Full Bird Colonel (06), go into great detail and disgusting stereotypes how there was "a ring of lesbianism" in our command. You can only imagine how all women were discerned from that point on?

Oh yes, COVERT discrimination via poor policies by our higher ups (Clintonian) is LESS DAMAGING than say, having a supporter who hsd FLATLY STATED that he (Obama) is 180 degrees in opposition to ... but everyone must be pure on one's opponent's side? :crazy:

You want me to forgive HRC's IWR vote - YET you smear a man who, I'd bet my paycheck, would implement liberating policies for the gay community within society as well as within the ranks of military service. The foregoing makes ZERO sense to me. :shrug:

The "situations" you choose to BLOW OUT OF PROPORTION, reveal IMO, a very ugly hidden agenda, i.e., get HRC the Democratic Nomination no matter how disgusting the tactics.

Bravo William, if anything, you are predictable.

[William769]

50. Is there anything you haven't been?

BTW "don't ask don't tell" has actually opened up the door for us today. The rest of your tripe I won't even bother with.

[ShortnFiery]

52. Not from what I have heard from the active duty Marines and Soldiers today.

Hey, I haven't been much in comparison to vast numbers of laudable people. I earned a Bachelors degree; was Commissioned an Regular Army Officer out of college due to graduating in the upper 5% of my Military Science Class; returned five years later to Graduate School with VEAP benefits; earned my Masters, worked as a GS-9 "Psychologist" position in Alcohol and Drug Abuse and also in the Civilian Sphere.

Gee, I won't give you the "snore fest" of all the "part time gigs" that I enjoyed (Construction work with a friend whose brother owned the company, Substitute Teaching, Temp Work) having to snag employment because I was married to an Marine 18 of the 20 years that my husband was on Active Duty.

Yes, you could say that I've been around the block a time or two. :blush: That is, I'd venture to guess that I have at least 20 years on you. So cut this old broad some slack? - or at least consider not disrespecting your elders? ;)

I don't discount your sincerity and compassion for one moment. You are clearly genuine. However, I regret that IMO, your perspectives and tactics are either in error and/or leave much to be desired when considering "fair play." That's based on my OPINION and, perhaps, a little more experience that you have enjoyed to date. :hi:

[PatSeg]

46. Thanks for the sanity

Obviously not everyone took it as it was intended. There is no perfect candidate and no perfect campaign. My take on the McClurkin controversy is it would have never happened if Obama had not mixed religion with politics - a dangerous combination.

[Karenina]

51. BINGO!!!

[illinoisprogressive]

54. K&H, you are pure class. Deepest thanks.

[BeyondGeography]

56. Much appreciated...and I hope Obama doesn't do anything more to offend you

not least because you're a reasonable Democrat and it was well within reason for you to take offense.

:thumbsup: