Christian "ex-gay" group calls on gay activists to stop "promoting hatred" re: Obama concert

[Bluebear]

Family Organization Calls for Gay Activists to Stop Promoting Hatred against Former Homosexuals Participating in Obama Presidential Campaign

Gay groups attack African-American for coming out of homosexuality

Contact: Regina Griggs, Director, Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays (PFOX), 703-360-2225, [e-mail], www.pfox.org

WASHINGTON, October 23 /Christian Newswire/ -- Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays (PFOX) have called on gay activists to end their attacks against Donnie McClurkin, an African-American gospel singer and former homosexual. Mr. McClurkin is a Grammy Award winner who is using his singing voice to participate in gospel concerts to raise funds for Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign. Some gay activists are demanding that Sen. Obama drop McClurkin from the singing tour.

"Ex-gays have the same right to participate in the political process as other Americans and should not have to endure this type of abuse because they chose to leave homosexuality," said Regina Griggs, PFOX executive director. "Gay rights groups demand hate crimes laws and sexual orientation non-discrimination legislation, but would deny the same protection to ex-gays who want full inclusion in society at the same level that gays currently enjoy."

"This irrational behavior towards those who have overcome unwanted same-sex attractions perpetuates misunderstanding and harm against ex-gays. It also demonstrates a disregard for diversity and a refusal to respect a basic human right to dignity and self-determination," said Griggs.

"It is ironic that gay activists, who used the African-American civil rights movement to win their own homosexual rights, have turned against African-Americans who no longer want to engage in homosexuality," said Griggs.

"Yet many in the African-American community, especially Black churches, support the ex-gay community. PFOX has spoken at Black churches and exhibited at African-American conferences, including the NAACP and Congressional Black Caucus. The support PFOX has received from the African-American community is tremendous."

PFOX urges gay organizations to show the same kind of compassion and acceptance of ex-gays that African-Americans have shown. "Gay groups must stop promoting discrimination against former homosexuals," said Griggs. "Gay activists cannot claim sympathy as victims when they victimize others."

http://www.earnedmedia.org/pfox1023.htm

[bicentennial_baby]

1. Oh, the persecuted ex-gays!!

Folks, we are truly through the looking glass now... :crazy:

[MethuenProgressive]

18. The Obama/McBigot Cure The Gays Gospel Concert Tour rolls on...

Obama's lack of experience shows at every turn.

[BR_Parkway]

2. Can we still pick on the "ex-gays" who are still having gay sex as he appears to be?

http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/PamsHouseBlend/~3/174972352/showDiary.do

OMG. Looks like a bit of a PR problem... Journalist Clay Cane has an exclusive interview with an alleged former lover of recloseted homosexual anti-gay gospel singer Donnie McClurkin. Well, perhaps he isn't so "ex-gay", as the man alleges he had a sexual encounter with McClurkin long after he claimed to have prayed away the gay. Clay Cane:

In this revealing interview "Rob" details his relationship, or as he described, "roller coaster ride" with the “We Fall Down” hit maker from 2001 to 2004, which is ironically during the height of McClurkin's anti-gay rants and calls for conversion. How they met, his status in the gospel industry, their sex life, why he stayed and why they ended it. Plus, their last encounter in March 2007.

The full interview can not be made public, some things I had to leave out such as other artists in gospel who are gay, but have not made anti-gay rants and a relationship with an R&B legend who as, “Rob” said, married a “bisexual”, famous pastor. I only wanted to focus on the relationship with McClurkin and no one else. I am presenting a story for people to make up their own minds.

...How long were you guys being sexual?
Off and on for three years, 2001 to 2004.

much, much more at the link

[Kurovski]

55. I suspect a fair number of "ex-gays" (jeez that sounds so queer) are bisexuals who

eventually end up back on the wiener-wagon.

[MNDemNY]

3. "Former homosexuals" ..wouldn't those be dead people?

[Bluebear]

4. :)

[NMMNG]

5. Dear "ex-gays" (e.g., repressed homosexuals).

Stop harassing us, abusing us, inciting hatred against us and declaring war against us and we'll you live your repressed lives in peace. Otherwise we are going to fight you every step of the way.

[ronnykmarshall]

6. Poor little things ..

Can't have cock/beaver and now THIS!

Tragic! Just Tragic!

[Bullet1987]

Wndycty was RIGHT DAMMIT!!!

Absolutely right when he said the anti-Obama people were over-playing their hand on this situation. LOL...oh how the tables will turn...

[Bluebear]

9. "LOL...oh how the tables will turn..." We get it, you could give a shit about GLBT rights.

[sniffa]

44. again, my ignore List proves insightfuL

i'm happy i don't have to read their driveL, but i'm sad to see my brethren have to put with this shit. fuck them.

[ronnykmarshall]

12. Get a HOLD of yourself Neely!

[Bluebear]

13. "Don't worry, sweetheart. If the show folds I can always get a part as understudy for my grandmother

[ronnykmarshall]

21. Now get out of my way ...

I gotta MAN waiting for me.

[jonnyblitz]

32. LMFAO!!!! Bullet needs his DOLLLLLS

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[DURHAM D]

38. LOL !! Oh no you didn't.

Some won't get it.

Thanks - I so needed a laugh - I scared my cat.

[keopeli]

7. Dear PFOX: The problem is not that he "left homosexuality"; it's that he promotes hatred/prejudice

Here's a few McClurkin quotes:

"I've been through this and have experienced God's power to change my lifestyle," he wrote.

Asked in 2004 by Pat Robertson how he deals with gay activists, he said, "I'm not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children."

"There's a group that says, 'God made us this way,' but then there's another group that knows God didn't make them that way," he says.

Or how about this gem:

"One mother brought her son up on stage. 11 years old, most beautiful little boy you've ever seen. stood there crying and she said, "He was raped two weeks ago." He broke loose from his mother, grabbed me by the waist and broke down crying. I have to do something and I can't care about the gay community . If they want to fight, fine, let's fight."


If McClurkin wants to be abstinent or have sex with girls, no problem. But, when he starts telling others that being gay is "wrong" and "a sin" and "a lifestyle choice", then he's preaching hatred.

[Bluebear]

8. "I can't care about the gay community . If they want to fight, fine, let's fight."

Who would hire this man for a concert??

[varun]

10. pitting African Americans against Gays

these same "Christian Conservatives" get all upset when race is mentioned in other contexts (like hate crimes). :eyes:

"Gay groups attack African-American for coming out of homosexuality"

[Bluebear]

11. It was just said here! "Why are LGBT singling out Obama? Because he's black!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3643822&mesg_id=3645865

Look no farther than DU. That's how deep commitment to LGBT rights go here with some.

[yardwork]

33. That's a great way to run a campaign for president.

Not.

[TechBear_Seattle]

14. Proof that America is persecuting devout Christians!!

Because these people are not allowed to execute us on sight for violating God's law, their right to free excercise of religion is being unconstitutionally impeded. :eyes:

[yardwork]

35. That's about right. And it's Halloween = evil baby killing pagans season, too.

It's a two-fer for me.

[alteredstate]

15. I think you need to edit your subject line. It's misleading.

I can't find any reference to the Christian "ex-gay" group calling on gay activists to stop "attacks" on Obama.

[Bluebear]

17. And that's all you chose to comment about? How nice.

[alteredstate]

20. Your subject line is inaccurate and misleading.

[Bluebear]

22. And that's the only comment you have about the issue??

There, hope you like it better.

[alteredstate]

23. Thanks!

[Ian David]

16. For the dirt on those "ex-gay" nutbags, see: www.ExGayWatch.com

http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/

Video: Exodus V.P. Defends Right to Do What’s Wrong: Discriminate
Posted on October 23rd, 2007 by Mike Airhart
Ex-gay activist and Exodus executive vice president spoke at a press conference last Friday to oppose the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

Video courtesy of People For the American Way.

Here are some excerpts.

I know what it is to be an out and proud gay-identified man … I was out and proud in the workplace …

I know what that’s like first-hand.

But I also know what it’s like to say … If I’m doing a bad job, then I definitely need correction, but if I’m not, she does. And it was taken care of right then. And I actually got promoted over her. What I’m trying to point out is this was 1990.

I do respect civil rights. I do respect Dr King. And for ENDA to create a special class, or a protected class, undercuts civil rights to the core.

As a former gay man, I see this from the perspective of knowing what it’s like to be a gay man in the workplace … But I also see it from the perspective of “I want my religious liberties protected.”

Update: Commenter Emproph provides a transcript of Thomas’ full remarks.

More:
http://www.exgaywatch.com/wp/2007/10/video-exodus-vp-claims-right-to-do-whats-wrong-discriminate/

[TrogL]

31. More stuff on my site

http://members.shaw.ca/trogl/orient.html

[Glorfindel]

19. How silly. One can no more be "ex-gay" than one can be

"ex-Caucasian." Somewhere, there is probably an organization of "ex-left-handers," promoting freedom from the SINISTER life and getting RIGHT with God. Doesn't mean they wouldn't still be left-handed. All that rot about molestation is just that, too: ROT. I was never molested. :evilgrin:

[CyberPieHole]

24. That's what PFOX is peddling...but, sorry, I'm not buying.

The homophobia expressed by McCloset is not acceptable. He is fanning the flames of hatred and intolerance (and violence) towards our brothers and sisters in the GLBT community. We cannot let this go without comment. Obama made a huge mistake in inviting this bigot to sing. If the bigot sings, then Obama will have shown the GLBT community (and those who support their causes) what he thinks of them.

[terrya]

25. This is rich:

"Ex-gays have the same right to participate in the political process as other Americans and should not have to endure this type of abuse because they chose to leave homosexuality," said Regina Griggs, PFOX executive director. "Gay rights groups demand hate crimes laws and sexual orientation non-discrimination legislation, but would deny the same protection to ex-gays who want full inclusion in society at the same level that gays currently enjoy."

What rights are those, dear? What alleged, fictitious rights are those? The right to legal same-sex marriage? Well, the good people of Massachusetts are the only ones currently enjoying that. Hate crimes legislation? Nope, don't have that one. The right to serve openly in the military? Again, nope...don't have that one. Even the right to be protected from workplace discrimination? A simple, basic right that GLBT people SHOULD have been enjoying a long time? No, Regina honey, we don't have that one, either.

It's amazing how these bigots can get oh, so huffy about us uppity homos pushing for the same rights as other Americans. We have the nerve not to expect to be treated as second class citizens.

And by the way...fuck them for perverting the name of a truly great organization. P-Flag.

[CyberPieHole]

26. Great post...

:applause:

[Duncan Grant]

39. Isn't "ex-gay", for all intents and purposes, simply "straight"?

"Gay rights groups demand hate crimes laws and sexual orientation non-discrimination legislation, but would deny the same protection to ex-gays who want full inclusion in society at the same level that gays currently enjoy." - Griggs

Like you, terry, I'm floored by this argument! Talk about lunacy! :crazy:

[terrya]

43. Yes...that would be true.

If this crap from the "ex-gays" and their enablers wasn't so morally reprehensible, you'd get the feeling that you were in some sort of perverse "Alice in Wonderland". :eyes:

Good to see you again, 94114_San_Francisco. :-)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. Many of these replies remind me of Ahmadinejad denying there are gays in Iran

Former homosexuals do exist, and the abuse levelled at them on DU is absolutely disgusting.

Tolerance & self-identification cut both ways, I'm afraid.

That said, the point the Christian group referred to in the OP is deliberately overlooking is that in this specific case, the reason Obama is being criticised for associating with McClurkin is *not* because he's a former homosexual, it's because he's bigottedly opposed to homosexuality.

[bicentennial_baby]

28. Say what?

"Former homosexuals do exist"

[yardwork]

34. This should be good. Let's hear it. Where are the "former homosexuals"

being persecuted on DU?

[Sapphocrat]

36. The only "ex-gays"...

...are either in denial, or not gay anymore because they're dead.

That's like telling me if you want it badly enough, and wish hard enough, you can will your penis to fall off, so you can be an "ex-woman." :eyes:

What part of the definition of "innate" do you not understand?

[IndianaJones]

37. my best friend is an ex-white dude. nt.

[NMMNG]

41. Delete

Misread. :dunce:

[NMMNG]

40. Um

What abuse are you referring to?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

45. For example:

Posts 3,5,6,19,43,28,36 etc on this thread.

Just imagine reading them leaving out the word "ex".

They systematic attempts to deny that ex-gays even exist is especially contemptible, I think; especially given that I'll bet that in many cases it's coming from people who will hotly defend e.g. the right of pre-op transexuals to be identify and be treated as their mental rather than physical gender.

[NMMNG]

47. Facts are on our side

"Ex-gays" are nothing more than people trying to repress their innate homosexuality, typically for religious reasons, and often at great expense to their emotional and psychological (even spiritual) health. Sometimes at great cost to others, as can be seen with McClurkin and others like him.

-There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of 'reparative therapy' as a treatment to change ones sexual orientation." American Psychiatric Association fact sheet, 1994-SEP
- "...scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy works." American Psychological Association, 1994.
- "... "can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation." American Academy of Pediatrics, 1993.

REPARATIVE THERAPY & TRANSFORMATIONAL MINISTRIES:
ESTIMATES OF SUCCESS RATES>

Various professional organizations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, and the National Association of Social Workers have stated that a person's sexual orientation cannot be changed by reparative therapy. 1,2

The one exception is the very small group: National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH). NARTH was founded in 1992 as a "non-profit, educational organization dedicated to the research, therapy and prevention of homosexuality." It currently consists of "more than 1,000 mental-health professionals." -- fewer than 1% of the therapists who belong to either of the APA's. 3,4 NARTH strongly advocates the use of reparative therapy, believing it to be very effective and safe. They regard homosexual behavior as a treatable disorder.

The American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association have formed the "Just the Facts Coalition." In 1999, they developed and endorsed "Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation & Youth: A Primer for Principals, Educators and School Personnel." It includes a number of quotations from major professional organizations expressing concern about reparative therapy and other methods of attempting to change an individual's sexual orientation. One example is the American Academy of Pediatrics, which stated: "Therapy directed specifically at changing sexual orientation is contraindicated, since it can provoke guilt and anxiety while having little or no potential for achieving changes in orientation." 5

<snip>

And of note:

A person with a homosexual orientation who decides to become celibate is also considered a victory for reparative therapy or a transformation ministry; they have become an "ex." Again, non-Evangelicals would suggest that the individuals have not changed their orientation, which remains homosexual. They are simply celibate homosexuals.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_spit.htm">ANALYSIS OF DR. SPITZER'S STUDY OF REPARATIVE THERAPY




These aren't "ex-gays", they are repressed homosexuals for Jesus. And "reparative therapy" is nothing more than abuse.

[Bluebear]

49. You are beyond contemptible, I think. There is no "ex" on anything innate.

Or are you one of the unenlightened who think it's a "choice"? Brother.

[terrya]

54. Oh, BULLSHIT

It's very telling that the people who are behind this "ex-gay" nonsense are the usual suspects...Focus on the Family, Family Research Council, American Family Association, etc, ad nauseum. The usual homophobes. This "ex-gay" bullshit is bigotry wrapped up to look like some sort of "compassion". I daresay those bigoted groups aren't quite so "compassionate" about pre-op transsexuals.

[William769]

57. Ex-Gay = DENIAL. NT

[Maven]

52. "Former homosexuals do exist"

No, they don't.

Next!

[Maven]

53. In fact, here's a little info on McClurkin's "ex-gay" activities!

Of course, it was just because he let his "problem" get out of control. :eyes:

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3418

[Karenina]

56. Oh dear...

:freak:

[Jamastiene]

58. And what the flying fuck do you know about it?

There is no such thing as a "former homosexual." The very same guys who started the entire ex-gay movement ended up together as a couple. The psychological torture leveled at gay people on a daily basis causes some to finally break and hate themselves enough to deny themselves a very big part of who they are. There is no such thing as a "former homosexual." They are one person of the same sex away from the truth coming back on out.

So, that premise is false to begin with and you should be ashamed for even giving credence to such an idea as that. Therein lies the problem. Idiots who know nothing feeling the need to chime in with a bunch of bullshit. I'm fed up with jerks like you pretending to know shit, when you don't know anything. Try living it for a week. I dare you. You'll crack outside of 3 days of that extreme pressure from the ex-gay bunch. I wish people like you would find the brink of suicide once or twice from that kind of hatred and self loathing due to assholes who do not understand nor even try to understand. Do me a favor if you ever find it. Don't come back. The last thing humanity needs in an unevolved mind like yours slowing civilization down.

Welcome to ignore, ignoramus.

[Solon]

59. Not according to credible psychologists...

I'm literally floored by your first statement in the body of your post. The only people that can be considered "ex-gay" would be those who are bisexual and simply don't get into homosexual relationships. Doesn't mean they are straight, and they were never gay either, but are still bi, because the feelings of attraction they feel for the same sex don't change, they simply don't act on them.

You are confusing actions with feelings, Homosexuality, is about you being attracted to the same sex, not whether you act on it. A person claiming to be a "former" homosexual is either someone who is honestly confused(most likely bisexual), or someone who suppresses, or at least attempts to suppress their feelings of attraction for the same sex. This doesn't make them straight either, there is no magical way to make someone become attracted to the opposite sex if they aren't already attracted to them.

In the case of McClurkin, his childhood trauma could have lead to sexual confusion, and he could be honest to Gods straight, for all we know. The rape could have messed him up psychologically, but if he is truly straight, he was still born that way, and was never homosexual to begin with, so for him to claim to be an "ex-gay" would be a lie, though one that he may not be aware of. However, if he does feel genuine attraction to men, and even women, then he is still either homosexual or bisexual, and still isn't "ex-gay". The worst victim of a lie isn't other people, but yourself, if you lie to yourself, you lose the moorings on the truth and cannot tell it from a lie.

In addition, self identification only works to a certain extent if there wasn't some objective way to determine whether that identification is valid. Humans, being social animals, generally seek out companionship with those they are sexually attracted to, there is nothing wrong with this, and its generally unavoidable. This is part of the reason why the "success rate" of ex-gay groups is, for all standards of objective measurement, 0%.

[IndianaJones]

29. this is the phase where gays are painted as responsible for the hatred shown against them.

it is shameful.

[msongs]

30. # of gys murdered by christians vs # of christians murdered by gays = ????? nt

[Bullet1987]

42. This is what happens when you over-play a small

contreversy and try to turn it into something it's not.

[NMMNG]

48. Do you have an answer to the question

Or just the same stupid bullshit?

[Bluebear]

50. It's a "contreversy", nothing more.

:silly:

[Duncan Grant]

46. I'm no longer gay: I'm "ex-hetero" and/or "formerly-straight".

What a sham -- the entire enterprise (PFOX) is nothing more than a carnival side-show. Regina Griggs offers such a perverse argument; it's nothing more than a mockery of LGBT people.

"Ex-gay", my eye. They're straight. Contemporary American culture doesn't discriminates against straight people based upon their sexual orientation. This word-play is the same right-wing crap as "pro-life" (aka: anti-abortion) and what Regina Griggs asserts as logic is purely bullshit.

[terrya]

51. Exactly

There are some good people...Wayne Besen to name but one...exposing this hateful sham. The best thing that can happen is continued exposure of these bigots. Just like lifting a rock and seeing the cockroaches underneath scurrying about...same thing with these homophobes.