So, why did Biden said this?

[Colobo]

BIDEN: The Washington Post: "After a lengthy critique of Bush administration education policies, Biden attempted to explain why some schools perform better than others -- in Iowa, for instance, compared with the District. ‘There's less than 1 percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than 4 or 5 percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with,’ Biden said. He went on to discuss the importance of parental involvement in reading to children and how "half this education gap exists before the kid steps foot in the classroom."

The Biden campaign moved quickly to clarify the senator's remarks in a statement: "This was not a race-based distinction, but a discussion of the problems kids face who don't have the same socio-economic support system (and all that implies -- nutrition, pre K, etc.) entering grade school and the impact of those disadvantages on outcomes."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/10/25/430273.aspx#comments
Nice spin, Joe. However, it's not the first time you make that "kind" of remarks...

[Virginia Dare]

1. I understand what he meant...

the gap between rich and poor in Washington, D.C., which he well knows about. I'm sure that is what his point was, even still he needs some kaopectate for his mouth sometimes.

[havocmom]

4. His is a great mind

sadly, not securely attached to his tongue.

Biden for Sec Of State! Let him hammer out policies and build coalitions, with the help of a corp of diplomats who can do most of the actual speaking.

[ginchinchili]

31. And just who is more qualified than him to be his boss?

The fact that he would make a better SOS than any of the other candidates is just another reason why he'd make a better president than the other candidates. You don't want the Sec. of State telling the president what to do. You need a president who has a strong enough grasp of the foreign policy issues telling the Sec. of State what to do.

For me, I find someone who doesn't run everything he says through a screening process until it comes out canned and shaped to please all ears very healthy and refreshing.

[havocmom]

65. I don't favor him for the big chair EXACTLY because of the way he puts his foot in it regularly

He does seem to screw up and NOT get his message out the way he intends. The big chair should go to someone more reliable in that area. It's not the screening process, it's just the getting it wrong too many times. That tendency in the big chair means having to constantly say you're sorry.

But, he mind for foreign relations and defense, WOW. Yeah!

[ginchinchili]

70. We agree to disagree.

I don't hear him the way you do. I crave a president to talks to us, really talks to us. I don't see one other candidate who is willing or capable of doing that. They're all to focused on being "careful."

[youthere]

2. I'm not really sure what your point is...

are you making the argument that there is no education gap between? Because it seems to me, that is what Biden is trying to illustrate. Can you help clarify? Thanks.

[madinmaryland]

3. I think the point the OP is trying to make, is that Biden while

trying to point one thing out, made it in a bone-headed way. He has a tendency of doing that.

[SteppingRazor]

5. If Biden has a tendency to point out things in a boneheaded way...

that should make him eminently qualified for the White House, no? :P

[Think82]

40. Like his Iraq plan? He's only solving the most important issues facing us while running for prez.

Oh, but I guess that doesn't matter to how you people pick candidates. No wonder we got Bush twice.

BIDEN 08!

[SteppingRazor]

42. I was making a joke about Bush, not Biden.

Christ, lighten up. :eyes:

[Think82]

47. Woops! Sorry. You can see how I could misinterpret your words though if you read them. my bad!

good joke, actually. Obviously, it frustrates Biden supporters when the only msm coverage of the best candidate is negative and wildly out of context when there is so much good that is not reported on, like when his Iraq plan gets 75 votes and no one in the msm gives a fuck except Chris Matthews.

[SteppingRazor]

50. Yeah, I know that can be frustrating...

Especially when Biden's got one of the only realistic plans for Iraq.

A couple weeks ago, I met a dude in a bar who had just come back from the Middle East a few days before after 20 YEARS in the Army in that area of the world. Solid Republican through and through for all his adult life. Very socially conservative. But he said he wants Biden as president, solely on the basis of his Iraq plan.

[Think82]

58. great story. Could you post it whenever we get into the "who's most electable?" debates on du

that might turn some heads

[rucky]

6. I taught in an all-Black school. Our reading coordinator gave us this report.

http://www.reading.org/Library/Retrieve.cfm?D=10.1598/RRQ.42.3.8&F=RRQ-42-3-Flowers.pdf

and this one:

http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archive/15_04/Race154.shtml

and different studies and literature on the issue every week.

There is - without a doubt - an achievement gap among Black students. I'm glad to see Biden is addressing this, even though he should've explained it better.

[Ian David]

7. This is why Stephen Colbert is almost tied with Joe Biden.

Stephen Colbert Moves Ahead of Richardson, Closes in on Biden, in National Poll!
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003661610

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. States With More Homogeneous Populations Do Better On Standardized Tests...

That's just a fact...There are a myriad of reasons with the foremost, imho, being the residue of racism and all its attendant problems...

It could have been said much less clumsily...

I'll leave it at that...

[Froward69]

9. Thank you.

Biden was just illustrating that Their aren't many "minorities" in Iowa. Sorry its a fact. The economic difference between races does perpetuate itself. Does only a Black or Chicano candidate get to point that out? Sad this is how the press pays attention to the best most experienced and qualified candidate in the field.

[murbley40]

11. Thank you Froward

[murbley40]

10. I understand what he meant,and so do you Katz..

[wyldwolf]

13. where were all the Biden supporters when I stood alone on DU in defending him...

... against the faux outrage over his comment about Obama being "clean." I could have used some help back then. But I'm glad you are stepping up to the plate now.

[gateley]

14. I wasn't here then otherwise I would have taken up arms with you. I also

wasn't a Biden supporter then, but I thought the ensuing hoopla was ridiculous - regardless of who said it.

Next time, there'll be a lot more of us in the trenches with you. :headbang:

[murbley40]

17. Delete double post.

[murbley40]

18. Sorry, you did not have help then , but you will now!!

[lyonn]

22. Biden got caught in the political play of the day

We golden oldies are very familiar with the term "clean" or "clean cut". It had Nothing to do with odor or bathing.

[wyldwolf]

23. yep, that was my argument. Of course, DU wisdom said I was wrong

[gateley]

24. "DU Wisdom" Hmmmm. nt

[lyonn]

38. Another thing, I suppose now it is politically incorrect to use the

word articulate when referring to an African American? Some of us like to say that Biden is articulate, that means we have no problem understanding his positions on issues. Some like to twist his meaning around, psychoanalyze him I guess. But we should not claim that Obama is articulate??? Ya gotta love the media.......

[IndianaGreen]

72. Oh, my Gawd. Don't tell me you are becoming a Bidenite!

Wonders never cease! :-)

[murbley40]

12. Why do you ask?

[gateley]

15. How on earth could that be construed as racist? He entered politics to

fight for the civil rights movement - he marched for equal rights.

As ugly as this fact is, it's the truth. There is still so much racism in this country - we can't do anything about it if we try to pretend there isn't just because it's politically sensitive.

He has said he speaks what he feels and doesn't search around for the "perfect" way to put it (like a couple of other candidates I could name). That ends up getting him in trouble because there are those just hovering waiting to swoop in and make an issue out of a statement. Not just with Biden, but all the candidates. He just speaks more from the heart and really tells us like it is - which is what we say we want, then he gets demonized for doing it.

[ellacott]

16. This is actually funny

If you take the whole thing in context you understand where he's going. Not offended at all.

[Debi]

19. What he says is true here in Iowa

And the problem is poverty driven, not race driven.

But go ahead and throw out your red herring.

Obama said something similar regardng the number of blacks in prison compared to the make-up of black people in the Iowa population just a couple of weeks ago. He said it was because a dispropotionate number of the poor are also black. They are saying the same thing.

http://www.wcfcourier.com/articles/2007/10/05/news/metro/63196c758dd5a4a48625736b004de430.txt

<snip>

After an audience member asked a question about the high African-American incarceration rate, a recent topic of debate in Waterloo, Obama said his first action would be to expand early childhood education, which can help alleviate poverty and crime.

<snip>

[Debi]

34. In addition - from one of the comments from Frist Read..

<snip>

" What's most overwhelming about urban poverty is that it's so difficult to escape--it's so isolating and it's everywhere. If you are an African-American child unlucky enough to be born into one of these neighborhoods, you are most likely to start life hungry or malnurished. You are less likely to start with a father in your household, and if he is there, there's a fifty-fifty chance that he never finished high shcool and the same chance he doesn't have a job. Your school isn't likely to have the right books or the best teachers..." from a speech by Barack Obama

<snip>

Why did Barack Obama say this???

[gateley]

45. Exactly, Debi. They are both acknowledging this tragic reality and sincerely

want to improve it. This entire "debate" is ludicrous.

[murbley40]

20. A very good sign that Joe's star is rising.

That is when others start to try to make mountains out of mole hills by inferring what is not there and they know it.

[ginchinchili]

32. Good point. Joe is making others nervous.

They can't even find a mole hill. They have to create attacks out of thin air. What a shame. Sort of reminds me of what the Bush campaign did to McCain in 2000.

[lyonn]

21. Inner city schools vs suburban or rural is the issue

In any large city there is a portion of the city that is black or hispanic. The tax base in these areas are poor. To me this starts the downward spiral in those communities. It then becomes a cultural issue. This has been an issue ignored. That is what I see Biden discussing. He is not a racially biased person. This is a problem the U.S. should be ashamed of. Why should schools in areas where property taxes provide a better education be better than poor tax based areas?

[gateley]

25. You're so right - it's a shameful situation. We need to address it - not pretend

it doesn't exist. This is not in defense of Biden's statement (although I do defend it) but rather an acknowledgment that this inequity exists and it's just so wrong.

[lyonn]

43. This issue is one that stirs me up

The govt. tried to integrate the school systems many years ago and that seemed to fail. In fact, it seems to have gotten worse. My thought is that if these poorer areas had smaller and more neighborhood schools that it would provide a sense of pride in the students. Huge schools where the kids are apt to get lost in the system is not a breeding ground for kids to feel their self worth. There are many kids from broken homes in the higher rated schools, so it is more than a family environment. I suspect the gang and drug situation has lots to do with kids dropping out. Kids are naturally built tough. They just need a better support system.

Think about small rural schools. There is a loyalty there you don't see as much in larger schools. Everyone knows everyone. That should do wonders for the inner city situation. But, it cost money. Heaven knows our govt. would rather spend money on prisons than schools.

[Mass]

26. Poorly stated and sadly true. Some kids start in life with an advantage linked to ...

nutrition, health, access to culture, books, ... than others do not have. This is, among other things, while early, professional, and public pre-K education is important.

[2rth2pwr]

27. So, why did Joe Biden say this?

Sen. Joseph Biden stereotypes Indian-Americans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cakQQtu5AxI

"You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking,"
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20060709/world.htm#1

[ginchinchili]

28. I didn't need Biden's explanation to understand what he meant. Did you?

If you would acquaint yourself with Biden's work on civil rights what you are intimating in your post would never even cross your mind. Biden made the comment you're referring to reflecting his unceasing belief in leveling the playing field in this country for all people, and in particular, African Americans. Some Republicans may make something of it, but you shouldn't be.

[2rth2pwr]

33. ACLU gave him a 60% rating

"Joe Biden also brought us the Rave Act (more here)and has been a supporter of increased rights for law enforcement and wiretapping. He won't get our support. Here's his voting record on issues of import:

* Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
* Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
* Rated 60% by the ACLU, indicating a mixed civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
* Rated 36% by NARAL, indicating a mixed voting record on abortion. (Dec 2003)

Biden also brought us this bill:

Biden's new bill would make it a federal felony to try and trick certain types of devices into playing your music or running your computer program. Breaking this law--even if it's to share music by your own garage band--could land you in prison for up to five years." http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/9/9/131531/7947

He was also a big supporter of the bankruptcy bill.

[ginchinchili]

56. And who might you be for?

[ginchinchili]

57. Your link is to a blog. Do you have any legitimate sources?

[2rth2pwr]

29. So, why did Biden say this?

Biden described Obama as "the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/31/AR2007013100404.html

[ginchinchili]

59. What part of that do you disagree with?

Keep in mind that it's in the context of viable presidential candidates. One could make the argument for Jesse Jackson, but Jackson really doesn't fit the bill like Obama does. And if you want to try to tear down the most qualified candidate running over a statement that could be interpreted in a way that doesn't sound tactful at the expense of the lives of potentially thousands who would be saved if he becomes president and implements his Iraq plan, I'd say your priorities are, at best, not in out nation's best interests. And at worst, aimed at preventing the Democrats from nominating the candidate who is in the best position to defeat the Republican candidate, whomever it may be, in 2008.

Who do you support? Thompson?

[2rth2pwr]

73. No criticism or else I am in favor of more dead people?

Anyway, Michelle disagreed with the clean part.

Hillary is our next President

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. The MSM Is Really Flogging This Story

DSB

[Debi]

36. And right in time for scheduling the Sunday talk shows

Biden didn't get any mention on ABC's THe Note or MSNBC's First Read for his interview with George Stephanopoulos - but guarantee they'll be talking about him this week. :eyes:

The fact that what he said is true or that Barack Obama says the same thing in his stump speeches means nothing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. They Will Probably Be On To Something Else By Then

DSB

[KittyWampus]

35. At least Biden actually addresses issues rather than spout prefabricated non-answers.

Occassionally, he might need tighter rhetoric.

But one of his best qualities is he actually ANWERS questions.

[jillan]

37. What Biden said was based on fact. Here are some statisics

The national graduation rate for the class of 1998 was 71%. For white students the rate was 78%, while it was 56% for African-American students and 54% for Latino students.

Georgia had the lowest overall graduation rate in the nation with 54% of students graduating, followed by Nevada, Florida, and Washington, D.C.
Iowa had the highest overall graduation rate with 93%, followed by North Dakota, Wisconsin, and Nebraska.
Wisconsin had the lowest graduation rate among African-American students with 40%, followed by Minnesota, Georgia, and Tennessee. Georgia had the lowest graduation rate among Latino students with 32%, followed by Alabama, Tennessee, and North Carolina. Less than 50% of African-American students graduated in seven states and less than 50% of Latino students graduated in eight states for which data were available.
The highest rate of graduation among African-American students was 71% in West Virginia, followed by Massachusetts, Arkansas, and New Jersey. The highest rate of graduation among Latino students was 82% in Montana, followed by Louisiana, Maryland, and Hawaii.
Among the fifty largest school districts in the country, Cleveland City had the lowest overall graduation rate with 28%, followed by Memphis, Milwaukee, and Columbus.
Fairfax County, VA had the highest overall graduation rate among the districts with 87%, followed by Montgomery County, MD, Albuquerque and Boston.
Cleveland City had the lowest graduation rate among African-American students with 29%, followed by Milwaukee, Memphis, and Gwinett County, Georgia. Cleveland City also had the lowest graduation rate among Latino students, followed by Georgia’s Dekalb, Gwinnett, and Cobb counties. Less than 50% of African-American students graduated in fifteen of forty-five districts for which there was sufficient data, and less than 50% of Latino students graduated in twenty-one of thirty-six districts for which there was sufficient data.
=====================

Why are you trying to make something out of nothing?

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_baeo.htm

[Think82]

39. So, Katz, I guess you think Biden is a racist? Because that's what you're implying.

If you don't think he's actually a racist, I can only speculate as to your motives for posting such a ludicrous piece of "news." I guess you are panicking because a lot of Obama supporters are now switching to Joe?

[Think82]

48. Also, Katz, I think you could use a grammar lesson. (re: the title of this stupid post)

[Colobo]

81. My English is not perfect

because it's my second language. My Portuguese is a bit worse, but decent. My Spanish is perfect.

[sandnsea]

41. Surprised?

Yes if Obama or Edwards had said this, the Hillary supporters would be all over it. Since Biden is no threat, it's a good opportunity for them to cozy up to his supporters. And the fact that you've been a nice guy all these months has mattered not one whit, you get personally attacked all the same.

[Froward69]

44. After lengthy research

heres the wash-post article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/24/AR2007102402716.html
only a reactionist would propagate the misnomer... I find NOTHING disparaging in his remarks. He is allowed to address these issues. It should be a Bigger issue if he hadent... :eyes:
Bill Cosby has said worse.http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4628960

[gateley]

46. HE'S GOT A 100% NAACP RATING! What does that tell you? nt

[ginchinchili]

60. That tells me that we have people on this thread who are willing

do say anything to keep America from having the best qualified candidate make it to the White House. Biden does not have the weaknesses that the other candidates have and this is increasingly becoming recognized. Their fear is making them desperate, not unlike Bush's supporters in the 2000 election and the crap they spread about John McCain. Our country is continuing to be sacrificed for people's myopic self-interests. This country would never have happened if these kinds of people had their way during the nascent years of our Republic.

[DangerDave921]

49. Gaffe

But he's only at about 2.5% in the polls, so who really cares.

I will say this -- inner city schools are an absolute disgrace. And I mean for everyone from the top on down. As one commentator said one time, if you didn't know better you'd think the DC public schools were being run by the KKK.

I would like more attention paid to public schools by the black leaders.

[ginchinchili]

61. There's really no room for racist comments like yours.

Obviously you assume that inner city schools can't achieve academically as well as all white schools. Hate to burst your bubble, but a little research would show you that this is not the case. Sad that Neanderthal thinking like yours doesn't just fade away.

[DangerDave921]

74. WTF???

What in the world are you talking about? How was my comment in any way racist?

I didn't in any way say that inner city schools can't achieve academically as well as white schools. I think they certainly can. But the facts are that the DC public school system is atrocious right now, by whatever measure you'd like to use. Do you disagree with that? Is that racist?

And my comment about the KKK is simply to highlight that the public schools are doing a terrible disservice to our black youth, which is robbing them of their future.

Again, what did I say that was racist?

[themaguffin]

51. What a pathetic attempt to attack Biden. Do some REAL homework to see who Biden really is

[percussivemadness]

52. OK.....You want to see who Biden really is, lets take the ACLU

The RAVE Act allows the government to impose a quarter million dollar fine by showing merely a "preponderance of the evidence" instead of the familiar, and much more protective, "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard that applies in criminal cases.

*The RAVE Act threatens musical expression, free speech and the right to dance. Property owners, promoters, and event coordinators can be fined hundreds of thousands of dollars or face up to twenty years in federal prison if they hold raves or other events on their property.

http://www.aclu.org/drugpolicy/raves/10671res20030911.html

This is the real face of Joe Biden, if this facist legislation had been pushed through by Resluglicans, you would be screaming at them.

Peace

[The Count]

53. Who? The guy who started his campaign saying Obama was "clean and articulate?"

I can't for the life of me imagine why...

[wyldwolf]

54. which, of course, there was nothing wrong in saying that

[jillan]

55. Rev Jesse Jackson doesn't think Biden is a racist, so why do you?

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/node/18787

"I have the highest regard for Joe Biden"

"I have high regard for Joe Biden. I campaigned against him week in and week out in 1988, and got to know him as a smart and decent person. The statements are a diversion. I hope they are not divisive. Joe has a strong position on foreign policy. He should be focusing on ending he war in Iraq and ending poverty, reinvesting in education and healthcare. I hope he will bring clarity to his statements."

[Laurab]

62. You know, Obama is my first choice but really

Katz, this is stupid. It's quite clear what Biden was saying. I wish Biden were higher in the polls, and I've donated to him, as well as Obama because I think Biden is by far the most qualified.

I like Obama, he's by far my favorite of the "front runners", and at this point, he's got my vote in the primary, because I think he has the best chance of beating HRC, and because I like him, the way he thinks, and a lot of things about him. I don't think his supporters (of which I am one) need to stoop to stupid shit like this, though.

[jillan]

63. Thank you Laura for posting that.

:yourock:

[Laurab]

64. Anytime...I'm used to stuff like this from supporters of

another candidate, but I don't like to see it by Obama supporters - I like to think we're better than that.

Also, I really do think Biden is, by far, the most qualified to be President. Right now, I'm most interested in beating HRC in the primary, and his numbers don't seem to be changing, but there's still time.....

[ginchinchili]

69. Thanks Laurab. People like you uphold the Party's integrity

[youthere]

82. You're a class act Laurab

[murbley40]

84. Thank you,Laura.

[PatSeg]

66. Well, it seems I missed all the excitement about

a lot of nothing. It appears everyone has said pretty much all that needs to be said about the ridiculous assertion that Joe Biden is "racist". I think I'll go with the NAACP rating of 100% and move on to more important issues.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

67. Man... you have lost your soul

You were the one Obama booster I hadn't put on ignore yet because you seemed so optimistic and idealistic and positive.

Now you're trying to smear Biden as a racist?

You have lost your soul.

Good-bye.

[LWolf]

68. Isn't he married to an educator?

I think I remember him saying that in one of the debates.

It's well established that socio-economic levels have a significant impact on test scores.

It's also true, to our enduring shame, that too many of those on the lower rungs of the socio-economic levels are people of color.

It's not racist to acknowledge this, and educators are well aware of this connection.

This is one of the big reasons that my personal preference would be to pour our resources into EVERY community, to actually achieve social and economic justice, to address the "achievement gap." If we address the gap between the haves and the have-nots, if we abolish an economic system that depends on a large pool of cheap labor, we'll raise academic achievement further and faster that all of the high-stakes testing legislation on the planet can do.

It's the reason that using high-stakes tests to close that gap will always fail; because threatening school systems with takeover if they don't somehow make the academic gaps go away doesn't affect the real gap, which is socio economic. That's deliberate; tptb would like the economic gaps to grow, and to privatize schools in the process.

[PatSeg]

79. Yes, Jill Biden is a teacher

You make excellent points. Well said.

[JI7]

71. this is my favorite Biden moment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIT3jUrNTX0

[Ethelk2044]

75. This is a very racist comment.

[ellacott]

76. It came out wrong but I don't think he meant it be racist

It could have been phrased better but I don't think he was trying to be racist.

[Clanfear]

77. He said it because it is the truth

Ignoring reality is not going to make things change. And the sad fact is that there is less parental involvement in children's education in lower socio-economic areas. And the other sad fact is that these lower socio-economic areas tend to be predominantly minority populated. You can't keep solely blaming the schools and teachers in these areas. Learning has to be a centerpiece at home.

[ellacott]

80. Very true n/t

[youthere]

83. WHY HAS THE OP NOT RESPONDED TO ANYONE ON THIS THREAD?

Makes me wonder what the OP's motivations were for posting it in the first place.

[murbley40]

85. Oh, I think we know why he posted it.