Knowing mainstream Dem voters as well as you know them...

[Colobo]

What effect will the Obama-Donnie issue will have on their opinion of Obama? Notice I'm talking about mainstream Dems, and by that I mean your average Dem voter, not your average political junkie that hangs out over here. :)

[cboy4]

1. Yea, so what if it doesn't have an affect on them? Does

that make it right?

Are you saying it's okay for Obama to piss all over gays because it may not hurt him in the long run?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

2. You misunderstood. The OP is about talking about "mainstream" Dems

[Warren DeMontague]

6. If the argument is that "mainstream" Dems are clueless homophobes, I'm not buying.

More of this "All Powerful Values Voter" bullshit that the Corporate Media has been peddling and both parties have been buying into. Someone should ask the GOP how well that Terri Schiavo thing worked out for 'em?

I'll say it once, and I'll say it loud and clear: The American People are FAR MORE LIBERAL and FAR MORE SOCIALLY LIBERTARIAN than the Conventional Wisdom waterheads give them credit for. We'e told that reproductive choice is somehow a loss leader for us... how does that work, exactly, when the American People are OVERWHELMINGLY pro-choice?

Well, here's a little clue telegram: They also think gays deserve equal rights, including marriage rights. They don't understand why they should spend $40 Billion a year trying to keep cancer grannies and Willie Nelson from smoking pot. They want the government out of the bodies, bedrooms, and bloodstreams of consenting adults. They do NOT think the government should be wasting millions of dollars trying to censor pictures of consenting adults fucking or peddling idiotic "abstinence only" programs to teens that don't work. They think the terminally ill should have a right to a pain-free, dignified exit of their own (and not Bill Frist's) choosing. They believe STRONGLY in the Constitution, The Bill of Rights, Civil Liberties and the Separation of Church and State.

Unfortunately, too many of our candidates are playing this idiotic fucking "woo the values voter" game. What they really should be doing is wooing the "Do your friggin' jobs already: fix the country's infrastructure, solve our energy and environment issues, and stop playing god-damn church lady morals nanny with the private affairs of consenting adults" Voter.

[IndianaJones]

11. mainstream America is made up, to a large degree, of bigots. nt.

[Warren DeMontague]

I don't buy it.

They aren't the mainstream. Not by a long shot. Selling out our collective integrity in pursuit them is not only the wrong thing to do morally, it's the wrong thing to do politically.

We do the right thing--- we stand up uncompromisingly for what is right, and we don't FUCKING APOLOGIZE for it?

We win.

[IndianaJones]

15. why are gays relegated to second class status? It ain't all fundamentalists and Republicans...

why are there more young black men in prison than in college?

[Warren DeMontague]

17. The only people surprised by how accepted gays and lesbians already are are those who haven't been

paying attention. There has been remarkable progress in GLBT rights in recent decades, and that is BECAUSE the American People are not the closed-minded flat Earth fundamentalist ninnies the Corporate Media would like them to be. Beyond that- if you're talking about marriage equality, people are ready for bravery and real leadership- the kind that can articulate WHY it's nobody else's damn business if two gay people who love each other want to get married.. As for black men in prison? Simple answer: The drug war. And the drug war is an utter fucking failure--- most Americans who don't have a financial stake in that $40 Billion dollar a year gravy train realize it.

[IndianaJones]

19. the progress is made DESPITE mainstream Americans, and it will continue in that manner.

Mainstream Americans vote for marriage definition amendments. Mainstream Americans make sure african american children remain in subpar schools. Mainstream Americans tell their fellow human beings to wait and be patient...their rights will come eventually. Fundamentalists and Republicans are not the biggest hurdle to the end of bigotry in this country by a long shot.

[Warren DeMontague]

24. I agree that they're the biggest hurdle. What I don't agree is that they're anything resembling a

majority.

[Colobo]

3. No. I'm wondering what effect will this have on mainstream Dem voters.

Honestly- I'm not looking for confrontation, just analysis.

[Warren DeMontague]

14. Since mainstream Dem voters are, like most of America, Progressive, socially liberal, pro-choice

and want the government to do their fucking jobs and stop playing god-damn church lady, this will alienate a large number of them.

[Bluebear]

10. cboy, you pipe down now, this is about MAINSTREAM Dems, not us uppity gays.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. Look! I found the "mainstream"!

[Bluebear]

16. There's my problem.

When I heard the banjo I thought it was Senator Sessions playing around the bend and I took to the other direction.

[Warren DeMontague]

18. And I love the banjo. When played well, it's a wonderful sound.

[cboy4]

20. I know, what was I thinking?

:eyes:

[IndianaJones]

4. many, if not most of them, are homophobes to one degree or another. nt.

[cuke]

5. I think it will hurt. How much? I don't know

It depends on how much play it gets. It's hard to tell if this story has legs.

Either way, I don't think it's a killer for Obama, but it does undermine his image

[OHdem10]

7. I assume you mean people who livr in the Hinterlands

not in the DC Bubble.

I watched coverage tonight to see how much coverage and how it
was covered. So far, it was more like brief story and you really
needed some real understanding to realize what is going on.

The Masses get most of their news from TV. Out in the country
not too much effect, I would say.

The Northeast part of the country--where you have the major
papers and DC where they obsess over things like this--I do not
have a clue as to what impact it will have.

[saracat]

8. Nada nothing.No effect on most.

[Bluebear]

9. Notice, MAINSTREAM Dems. Not you uppity gays, just MAINSTREAM Dems, please.

Ecccch this keeps getting worse and worse.

[jillan]

12. The majority of Americans don't even know about this story.

[sandnsea]

21. They will never know about this

So I guess it will have no affect at all. Nobody cares about what a gospel singer thinks about anything.

[IndianaJones]

22. nobody cares. I can agree with that. nt.

[The Magistrate]

23. In Direct Terms, Sir, Probably Not Too Much Effect At All

Leaving aside that a great proportion of even primary voters will not hear much about this, some other factors are worth noting.

First, it is a sense of tolereance, and reluctance to be judgemental about the behavior of others, that is the distinguishing characteristic of Democratic voters concerning issues of politicized sexuality. These are things that cut both ways, and will be applied to persons who, for their own personal reasons, hold a differing view on such matters. Most of these people will be no more inclined to condemn this singer than they are to condemn an activist from the Human Rights Campaign. Hardly any will consider that Sen. Obama should be counted as a religious right homophobe for sharing a stage with the man.

Second, sexual issues are not a particularly high priority for the greatest proportion of even Democratic primary voters. Most consider these to be distractions, forced on the country by moralists of the right, to divert attention from matters they view as of much wider and more grave import. Concerns about the 'forever war' in Iraq and likely in Iran, about impending economic disaster, subversion of the basic principles of Constitutional liberty, will rank higher in their consideration of candidates.

Probably the most important element of this controversy is something it may come to serve as an emblem of, namely a sense that Sen. Obama's political operation is showing signs of being more an amatuer than a professional effort. That will receive increasing coverage as this unwinds; commentators will from here on in be looking for signs of this in his campaign activities, and what is looked for generally is found. If this works its way into the normal rotation of campaign coverage, it will be noted by most primary voters, and become part of their consideration of whether or not the man is the one to run in the general election.

[Cameron27]

25. I think it will hurt him with younger voters

which makes up a big part of his support.