I didn't know Donnie McClurkin was an "ex-gay"

[Herman Munster]

I haven't been following the threads on this too closely but was shocked when I learned Donnie was an "ex-gay" today. How can Obama choose to associate himself with a mentally unstable individual such as an "ex-gay"? Nobody can be an "ex-gay." This article makes it out that Donnie is fighting a nasty disease like being gay is cancer or something.

The man is a fucking whack-job!!!

http://www.witnessfortheworld.org/DonnieMac.html

He told FamilyChristian.net writer Ann Meyerling that he was influenced to write the book after "seeing people, young people especially, who are being totally decimated in their sexuality."

Why is this book so good for us? One reason is because Donnie McClurkin opened the doors a little wider and shined a flashlight into that terrible darkness. He told the truth and didn't make excuses for himself.

"The abnormal use of my sexuality continued until I came to realize that I was broken and that homosexuality was not God's intention...for my masculinity." he writes. That's the kind of solid, practical advice thousands of young men and women are not getting in churches today. The book has plenty of "transparent" moments, something critical I feel to the success of a book like this.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. How could Biden, Clinton, Dodd, and Edwards vote for the Iraq War Resolution?

Knowing that it was being spearheaded by whackjobs like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Wolfowitz, GHBW, etc? How could they choose to associate themselves with that mentally unstable crowd?

Obama spoke out against the resolution 5 years ago when the aforementioned were lining up to support it. BTW, he has an excellent record on GLBT issues.

[BeyondGeography]

4. What's a misguided war compared with having the wrong singer at a fundraiser?

Get your priorities straight now, it's primary season.

[MADem]

6. Yeah, fuck ten percent of the population. The ones that donate to political causes well in excess

of their actual numbers.

Don't talk about issues of import to them. Distract and derail threads about the subject with unrelated bullshit.

Shame on you.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

11. Okay. Enjoy Hillary's next war. nt

[MADem]

15. And you enjoy fucking ten percent of the population, to say nothing of your

fellow DUers.

See, what you're doing is happening NOW.

And yet, you try to suggest that is equivalent to something that you, and only you, aver will happen in the future.

It isn't. Your fellow DUers see you for what you are.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

16. They have gone off the rails, excited by defending the indefensible. This is how pogroms start.

[BeyondGeography]

17. Hmmmm, pogroms...now who has gone off the rails again?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. ,

[mrreowwr_kittty]

24. Okay, enjoy the war that you think won't happen

Due to your choosing to engage in circular firing squad politics that will only lead to the elevation of the blandest, most centrist, most expediently war-hawkish candidate in the end.

Help to toss out a candidate who was right on the IWR and has an excellent record on civil rights, including LGBT issues, to teach him a lesson about making the wrong choice in gospel singers. Let the frontrunner, who has issues of her own regarding pandering to religious homophobes, gain an even bigger lead in the race to the primary. Then check back to me around 2010 or so and see how that's working out for you. I hope you're right and I'm wrong. I hope that the next Clinton presidency is manna from heaven, in terms of foreign and domestic policies. Strangely, I don't think it will be. But until then you are on my ignore list.

[MADem]

29. Oh, please. Get over yourself.

And stop assuming that everyone who has a fucking problem with this matter is a Clinton supporter.

It really speaks to YOUR inability to see things in a three dimensional fashion.

Your sad little "Either - Or" construct is bullshit. You're refusing to address this issue by countering with a lame "Hillary is WORSE" argument.

Well, gee, he's not as bad as Hitler either. But he's not as fluffy as a kitty. So what?

You need to stop with the "compare and contrast" game and ask yourself how you really feel about this candidate, this situation, and his reaction to it. Stop tossing canards into the mix. Is it OK to tell gay people to 'get over it?' Is it OK to talk about tolerance instead of equality? Are the gay people who deliver more cash to his campaign per capita than most demographics supposed to suck it up and get over it? Move ON?

So, you go on ahead and dramatically put me on your little ignore list. I wish you'd done it sooner, because you have nothing to contribute to this discussion save your faulty arguments and unthinking fealty. That kind of shit works real well in Kingdoms and dictatorships, but it doesn't quite hit the mark in a democracy.

[JackBeck]

9. Even though you belittle our fight for equal rights,

The majority of the LGBT commnunity will continue to call for an end to this illegal war.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. So whom do you support?

Clinton? Who is a warmonger and also has associations with homophobic clergy, not to mention participating in prayer groups with Man on Dog Santorum?

Edwards? Who voted for the IWR, gets endorsed by woman-hater Bill Maher (yeah, misogyny is just as hurtful as homophobia), and can't bring himself to support full marriage equity because of his "faith"?

Richardson? Who got tripped up by a question about the origin of same-sex attraction (he can't decide if it's a choice or not) at a LOGO debate?

Kucinich? Who probably did or said something someone would take offense to in the past decade?

Dodd? IWR

Biden? IWR

Gravel?

BTW, I don't appreciate you accusing me of belittling anything. I have supported GLBT causes with my dollars and my sweat for decades. If you want to throw out a good candidate, with an excellent record on civil rights and an expertise in the Constitution that none of the others have, because of one misstep that is your choice. I respect your right to make it but I don't have to follow suit.

[JackBeck]

13. Was I responding to you?

Nope. Never accused you of belittling.

But to answer your question, I'm voting for Kucinich in the primaries.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

14. You've convinced me. I will vote for the only candidate to make a SPECTACLE of embracing intolerance

enjoy your rationalization party without me.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

26. Oh, if it's a SPECTACLE then it's a problem

If they are more lowkey about it, not so much. Got it. :thumbsup:

Thanks for the clarification.

[MADem]

5. That is probably the most pathetic attempt at diversion I have ever seen.

The subject is Donnie, not a resolution that your candidate wasn't even in the chamber to vote for or against. It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, and it's easy to take the popular side well after the fact, when you weren't there and required to actually cast a vote anyway.

So that's just lame. Like this derailment attempt.

[BeyondGeography]

8. McClurkipalooza is what's lame

And it'll be a trivia question this time next week.

[cuke]

19. I'll take "Embrace the Change" for $100 Alex

[BeyondGeography]

22. LOL...How about Chinese dishwashers for $2,000?

[MADem]

23. I really don't think so. This isn't going away. It's a horrible misstep. NT

[BeyondGeography]

25. It's a misstep alright, but not the Twilight of the Gods incident that many would make it out to be

Lost in the uproar is the fact that Obama has been the only D-candidate with the guts and the ability to publicly criticize homophobia in the black community. He's overpaying for McClurkinGate right now, but he has the rhetorical and political skills and, more important, the sincere commitment to equal rights for all Americans, to bounce back. A lot of the criticism on this board is over the top and comes from people (not including you; your Switzerland status is appreciated) who weren't on board with him to begin with.

[MADem]

27. I think it's a self-inflicted Dean Scream. I think the wheels are coming off.

It's starting to get that Macaca momentum. I might be wrong, but it feels that way now.

And I was one of the ones who really thought he could fix this -- and I have said so here -- if he'd just get off his ass, bite the bullet, and get that bum off his concert tour however he had to--have him get a cold, or something. ANYTHING. Get that guy gone. Plus, his non-repudiation of the guy was just lame. It needed to be stronger and more sincere. A little more "equality" and a little less "tolerance" maybe.

A lot of his supporters--his generous, recurring donation, CASH supporters--are in the GLBT community. That, honestly, is where his Achilles heel may well come in. I don't know if there will be a "You take my money, and crap on me like that?" reaction. I think there might be, though. I don't think this can be papered over with a gay minister as the MC of the gospel tour.

I do know there's a LOAD of hurt over this. I don't think the campaign saw it coming--I KNOW they didn't. His HQ staff is a bunch of rank amateurs, or obtuse assholes. It seems the only quality personnel he's got is in the fundraising department--everything, from these political choices (sending his wife to the UK during breast cancer month? This bullshit? That HORRIBLE ad? What is WRONG with those clowns?) to his campaign ads is just well, LOUSY and a bit jarring. It really is a testament to his personal political skills that he's even out of single digits.

But the 'big deal' in all this is that no one likes to be called "less than." Or disrespected. Or treated as though they are expendable or will "get over it." And I guess it's a double-hurt when it comes from someone who should have a little experience knowing how it feels to be treated like "less than" or disrespected for something that is an essential, nonremovable aspect of one's nature.

Frankly, it's not MY personal ox being gored, but it is the ox of some of my relatives and friends. Not that I'm supporting Senator Clinton either, but I really do "feel their pain." You can't hurt people like that.

I'll have a better sense of this tomorrow when I see my cousin, who is a fairly generous "recurring donor" to the BO campaign and volunteers in NH, AND has a beloved baby brother who is gay. I get the BO sales pitch every time we meet, so we'll see how it goes tomorrow.

[BeyondGeography]

28. Some strong points, but where it falls short of Macaville and the Dean Scream

is the candidate himself has done nothing wrong. His campaign fucked up. If you want to read monumental incompetence into that, fine. But how competent was it to release the names of Chinese dishwashers with $2,000 campaign contributions attached to them? Funny how our ethically challenged frontrunner continues to fly under the radar with crap like this while we obssess over a warm-up act for a fundraiser.

[MADem]

30. Now there, I have to disagree.

You can get away with blaming the campaign for a day or two, but at some point, when the campaign staffers have fucked up, you TAKE THE WHEEL and fire a few idiots. He hasn't done that. He's had several days to fix it, too. Instead, he's plowing along, kinda like George Allen did with his Macaca disaster, taking small, INCREMENTAL steps instead of grabbing the bull by the horns and being decisive.

His actions are coming off as lame. They really are. He's giving an impression that he is a WEAK leader, if he can't even get his campaign ship on course.

And the homophobe guy isn't the warm-up act. He's a headliner, a Grammy winner, who's sold a ton of records. The warm up act is the gay minister they've dragged in at the last minute to " deliver an invocation."

This article talks about BO's 'balancing act.' http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/619786,sweet102507.article The problem with those is that you don't please either side. He's sacrificing his integrity in an effort to find votes amongst intolerant voters in SC, and that can't help but leave a sour taste in people's mouths.

And this has nothing to do with the 'ethically challenged frontrunner.' That's a canard. You can address her shortcomings all you want on their own merits or lack thereof, but you cannot credibly compare them to this specific issue, unless she's touring SC with Closet McLurkin, too.

This is about Obama, what he has done, what he hasn't done, and how he's walked a line between loyal supporters and votes that he seeks from religious bigots. He has not come off well--he simply hasn't.

[BeyondGeography]

31. I don't know about you , but I feel a hug coming up between the gay minister and McClurkin

complete with tears of sorrow and dignified pleas for forgiveness.

Could be wrong, but the Obama campaign isn't nearly as inept as you might think. I'd reserve final judgment until this fully plays out.

[MADem]

32. And then Closet McLurkin will pray the gay guy's gay away!!!

I'm only half joking there.

I dunno. My guess is that they'll keep them as far apart on the schedule as possible. To do anything else is asking for trouble. Two preachers, with opposite views of the Gospels? It can't possibly end well if they're in too close a proximity.

Who needs to be forgiven at that venue, though really? I'm quite sure the closeted Reverend thinks he's just ducky, as does the gay reverend. As do the attendees who think it's fine to reproach someone for being who and what they are.

I think the Christians who aren't haters might say Obama is the one who needs to be forgiven--if he stops repudiating his GLBT supporters.

I guess we'll have to wait and see!

[JackBeck]

33. In your scenario, which one is pleading for forgiveness?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

10. He made his statement in 2002, when he was preparing to run for the Senate

Hardly a Monday morning quarterback situation. It was an incredibly courageous thing to do, and not the popular view at the time. What he said at the time was spot on. I make the point because a lot of DUers are hammering Obama right now because of his "judgement". Well, if judgement is the issue then I think it's perfectly appropriate to point this out. You are willing to cast aside a great candidate because of one stupid misstep by his campaign in selecting a performer for a concert. That is the lame derailment, IMO.

[MADem]

18. He wasn't in the chamber casting a vote. Woulda, coulda, shoulda

ain't doing. It's easy to say what one would have done when one isn't actually having to do it. It's not the same.

And he managed to miss a rather important and dicey vote recently. You'd think he would have moved heaven and earth to get back to DC to bravely cast that NO vote.

But ya know what? This thread isn't about votes. It's about Donnie McClurkin. And it's not one misstep--it's a series of missteps that insult and devalue ten percent of the population of the United States. He's basically crapping on ten percent to try to get a chunk of twelve percent. Or rather, in one key state, a chunk of fifty percent.

I don't understand that math, myself. He may win a battle, but he's guaranteeing that he'll lose the war.

The wheels are coming off, his advisors suck, and he isn't bringing them up short, firing a few idiots, and taking charge of the ship.

That's what was needed--TWO DAYS AGO. I don't think he can fix this anymore. He's a dissapointment.

[Me.]

2. Soon To Be Appearing In A Bathroom Stall Near You

You can't fix what ain't broken

[MADem]

3. Oh sure! And his attitude is that it's a CHOICE--like hair color, or shoes.

You can put it on or take it off. ya wanna be "masculine?" Well, go see ole Donnie, and he'll help you change!! Like changing your socks!!

Ted Haggard should have gone the Donnie route, surely he'd have avoided all that trouble with that meth-carting rent boy!!

[Dr.Phool]

7. Neither does his boyfriend.

[cuke]

21. That deserves a DUzy