Governor Spitzer and Senator Clinton want to give ILLEGAL immigrants drivers licenses

[bigdarryl]

I have no link on this but I 100% disagree with Senator Clinton and the NY Governor on this it's CRAZY most of these people can't even drive properly. this is NUTS

[IndianaJones]

1. won't they have to take a test? nt.

[iverglas]

2. I believe it's Spitzer

and the question has been discussed at great length at DU, and referring to groups of people different from one's self, particularly people whom other groups despise, as "these people" is generally regarded as the hallmark of a bigot.

Anything else you'd like to know?

Where the fuck did this come from ...

[Book Lover]

3. As a car guy, my two cents

is that the people you are talking about should be trained at least in how we drive on our roads. What would you think of a different license class, something sort of like an international DL, that only says that a person has been trained and tested and knows how to drive safely on the roads in this or that state? We could also offer it to people who are here temporarily but long-term.

on edit: removed term I did not realize was offensive. Apologies.

[iverglas]

33. thank you

on edit: removed term I did not realize was offensive. Apologies.

That was the right thing to do, in every respect, and I just wanted to express my own respect for the acknowledgement and the action on it, and the apology even if the offence was inadvertent.

[Book Lover]

65. You are of course welcome

In my original wording, I was talking one car guy to another (no offense, but the world is divided between those of us who love cars, and the rest). I realized how easily my words could be misinterpreted; and I think I didn't realize the OP's intentions either.

[TwilightZone]

4. I presume that you mean Spitzer.

There are plenty of Americans that can't drive properly, either. Can we please take away their licenses, as well?

[rinsd]

5. These people?

How about certifying that "these people" CAN drive by having them go thru the license procedure where they must pass a written and driving test?

Ya know as opposed to the current situation where undocumented workers tend to drive without licenses or insurance since one needs the former for the latter.

[IndianaJones]

6. i think the OP believes they will just give everyone licenses with no test...

after all, most of them can't even drive properly.

[NYCGirl]

7. Well, there you go using logic.

That'll never fly here.

[fenriswolf]

8. im sorry

but these are illegal immigrants, i believe that mexicans should be able to migrate to america but why should we give special privligas to mexicans? why should we bring them into the system without them being taxed, being able to incorporate themselves into society and contribute to said society. I mean whatever happened to deporting illegal immigrants? I know i will be flamed for this but i look at it this way, overpopulation will become a major problem very soon so why should we accomidate people who feel that they can jump borders whenever they want? I want to migrate to canada but I am doing it legally, what do you think the candadians would do to me if i just decided, "i'm gonna live their weather they like it or not"

[MGKrebs]

15. Who said they are not being taxed?

If employers are paying people under the table then we need to address that. Not sure why we would focus on the worker end of it.

It's my understanding that there is a pretty significant black market in fake ID's so that it's easier for certain people to get jobs. The implication is that this means that taxes ARE being withheld... taxes which pay for benefits the employee will never collect.

[kdmorris]

20. What the hell are you talking about?

"special privileges for Mexicans"? You think Mexicans are the only illegal immigrants??

You want to talk about special privileges? Look up the "Wet Foot, Dry Foot" policy for Cubans.

[fenriswolf]

23. sorry

just replace mexican with illegal immigrants

[kdmorris]

60. Did you look up the policy?

Do you even know how hypocritical the the government is towards immigrants? Really, you NEED to look up the the Cuban policy. Because their illegal immigrants are welcomed with open arms, as long as they set foot on land. And then, they get driver's licenses, and schooling, and all the other things that you call privileges.

[iverglas]

21. sorry

I want to migrate to canada but I am doing it legally, what do you think the candadians would do to me if i just decided, "i'm gonna live their weather they like it or not"

There is no comparison.

The historical relationship between what are known today as the United States and Mexico, and the peoples of those states, is entirely unlike the historical relationship between the United States and Canada and their peoples.

The only possible hypothetical similar situation involving Canada would be if, instead of forming a political union, French Canada and English Canada had solidified as separate states. French Canada, two centuries ago and up into the 20th century, was an agrarian society, much less developed than English-speaking societies on the continent, priest-ridden, speaking a language not spoken by neighbouring political communities, and set adrift from the former colonial power before modern economic and other kinds of development occurred.

Had that happened, and had English Canada conquered and occupied, say, western Quebec, without recognizing the status of its population as a people and a nation and incorporating their language and culture into the larger nation-state, it's conceivable that the relationship between Canada and Quebec would look, today, something like the relationship between Mexico and the US.

But any comparison between USAmericans wanting to settle in Canada and Mexicans wanting to settle in the US is really entirely specious.

[fenriswolf]

26. so i guess your point being

we should let however many people come into the states whenever they want while if we wish to move we still have to go through due process?

[iverglas]

31. wow, I hope you didn't bet anything on that guess

'cause it's really quite amazing how far from truth it was.

[fenriswolf]

32. so what is your point

my point is i think migrants should go through the naturilization process like anyone who wants to migrate to america and just like americans have to go through to migrate elsewhere and that if someone is living in american illigally they should be driven back to their country of origin. what is so wrong with that? i think giving illegal immigrants drivers license is another step towards allowing anyone to come here if they want to.

[Mass]

35. So, are you going to drive 12 M people out of the country overnight. If not, may be it would be

good to be sure that they know how to drive and that they have insurance, even if you do not consider human issues of people who have been there for years making some American citizens richer and that you are just going to throw away like used tissues.

And, BTW, naturalization is the process of getting American citizenship. Immigration is the process of getting a visa to come legally in the States.

[cuke]

37. The "rewarding illegals" is a bullshit argument

I have heard many say that the "illegals" don't deserve "priviliges" like driver's licenses because they have broken the law in entering this country. These people never complain about how citizens who break the law are still entitled to a driver's license.

[fenriswolf]

42. i never said criminals should be rewarded

thanks the words in my mouth sure are tasty

[cuke]

46. I never said it was a quote of yours

but you did speak of "special priviliges", a right-wing code phrase

[iverglas]

45. 'tis always better to point a finger

than to come up with a solution to a problem that will be in the common interest.

Why anyone could think it's in the common interest to have uninstructed, unlicensed, uninsured drivers (who therefore have nothing to lose) wandering one's highways and byways, I can't imagine.

It's not like refusing to give the drivers in question access to licences is going to persuade them all to stop driving, let alone leave ...

But it sure is heart-warming to point the finger. Apparently.

[fenriswolf]

50. thanks for the diff between naturilization and immigration

but that does not answer my point. I am not saying throwing people away like used tissue, i am just saying keep them here to make americans richer, i am not saying give them slave wages. In fact if only we would pay illegal immigrants the same wage we would not have this problem. I am just saying that if someone is in america illegally we should treat them as if they are breaking the law, basically i'm saying deport them untill they get a visa, anything wrong with that?

[Mass]

55. So, how do you deport 12 M people?

And, if not, why would you not make sure they know how to drive rather than allowing them to drive without a license and an insurance? Just asking, because you are consistently refusing to answer these 2 questions?

May be we should start by making sure those who hire illegal immigrants get severely punished. That would be a start. Then make sure that people who are there illegally can regularize. BTW, being deported prevents you from getting a visa, I think.

[fenriswolf]

63. good question on how to deport 12 mil people

to answer that it would take alot of money and manpower but no I do not have an answer to that except to maybe make a SOP if you find someone living in the states illigally to deport them so that we dont have this build up. I also agree that people who hire illegal immigrants should be held accountable for it. as for being able to drive back safely well yes I agree but but giving people a driver's license is almost paramount to giving them a visa IMHO. I just feel that with each passing year we are allowing the US to have a second class of citizens to whom labor laws do not apply as they would not want to report abuses for fear of deportation (yes I know catch 22 and all) but it is my feeling that instead of trying to get illegal immigrants to be "safer" or whatever in the US is wrong, illegal immigrants are here illegally and should be deported instead of trying to find a way for them to coexist in america. That is just my opinon

[dugggy]

70. The same way they snuk in, one at a time?

[iverglas]

39. look, this is tedious

Make all the arguments against anything and anybody you like.

Just don't pretend that the subject matter of the discussion is anything LIKE your efforts to immigrate to Canada.

It isn't. Period.

Yes, all countries have immigration controls.

No, Canada does not have an historical relationship with the US and USAmericans that involves conquest, colonization, economic exploitation, enormous benefits from illegal immigration, a large population of ethnic USAmericans in Canada with strong cultural and linguistic ties to the population of the US, or just about any other characteristic of the relationship of the US with Mexico and Mexicans.

I do not take any position on the issue of illegal immigration in the US, actually, not that you saw fit to inquire. I do not live there so I do not understand the phenomenon well enough to have an informed opinion, and I do not have any frame of reference for trying to understand it by considering something I do understand. The situation is unique, and I would likely find it difficult to have a firm opinion even if I had lived in the US all my life. I often find that to be the case when trying to devise ways of cleaning up messes other people have created.

[lynnertic]

9. They simply want to decriminalize driving a car.

It's not such a big deal.

[Colobo]

71. Illegals have no right to be in this country in the first place.

For instance, they have no right to drive a car over here.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

11. Sorry, but if I get hit by an illegal immigrant, I want him or her to have

a driver's license, so I can report it to my insurance company.

A driver's license means the person has been tested to have adequate driving skills. Not issuing licenses to illegal immigrants won't prevent them from driving. It just means less protection for everyone else on the road.

[fenriswolf]

19. true

but i guess this means illigals can now get drivers license and insurance, if we know they are illegal and where they live why are we not going after them, I do not agree that we should just let illigal immigrants live in america without them going through due process, i know this is cold and heartless of me but if i have to go through process to migrate then they need to do it as well.

[MGKrebs]

27. That get's into who has authority for immigration law.

Also, local law enforcement agencies are sometimes reluctant to enforce immigration laws because they are concerned that immigrants then won't report crimes or seek help in a crisis.

I suppose if someone could wave a magic wand and fix the problem that would be good, but that isn't going to happen. Whatever we do will take some time and the consequences and repercussions of our strategy need to be considered. In other words, there probably is no perfect solution. We have to judge among various less than perfect choices.

[Mellowtone]

38. This is the most reasonable post on this thread!

In my opinion, and the opinion of the Governor of NY!

[wyldwolf]

12. bigdarryl's Hllary Hysteria Fake Outrage of the Day!

[IndianaJones]

13. but...most of them don't even know how to drive properly. nt.

[bigdarryl]

14. She said she has no problem with it

[durrrty libby]

16. He is barely amusing, but the best one was when he said

his mommy supposedly said that Hillary was "cold and cocky":nuke:

[cuke]

29. I haven't forgotten when BD predicted

that Rudy's web ad would "devastate" Hillary's campaign

[durrrty libby]

34. Oh yeah, he loves drama words such as "devastate"

[NYVet]

43. devastate

"That word. I do not think it means what you think it means."- Inigo Montoya

[AlCzervik]

17. "most of these people can't even drive properly" you did not post that, i know you didn't.

[Forkboy]

18. OMG! THIS IS HUGH!!!!

:eyes:

[SaveElmer]

22. JESUS...this is right up there with her wanting to outsource bricklaying.,..

And Obama's ability to create people from clay...!!!


:rofl:

[Mass]

24. Actually, if they had licenses, they would have to pass the test and get an insurance, so the

situation would be better.

[seasat]

25. Having a driver's liscense mean they can get auto insurance.

It means that if you're involved in an accident with them then you can get reimbursement. Several states have moved to grant illegal immigrants drivers licenses because of this reason.

[Bluebear]

40. And jobs. And take their kids to school.

Good point on insurance.

[mark414]

28. if somebody is going to drive regardless, shouldn't they be licensed and insured?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. The Way I Understand It

My Florida (American) driver's license is good anywhere in the world*... Presumably, illegal immigrants have licenses fron other countries...This would just give them an opportunity to get an American one if they are here...


*I do realize if I move to another country I can't drive with my Florida license forever but the same would be true if I moved to California...

[Mass]

58. In most countries, you would have to take a driving exam again.

and most immigrants have to take a driving exam after one year in the USA, not just reapply for a license.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. That's What I Meant

But I presume if I went to Paris or London or Tel Aviv I could rent a car at the airport and drive around...

[cuke]

30. Another right-wing argument from the Hillary Haters

All hate, no content

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. The OP Has Some Great Ones

It shows even Democrats or so called Democrats can be incredibly reactionary...

[hedda_foil]

36. It's all politics on all sides. Illegals get drivers licenses every day.

Puh-LEEEZE. The only documentation you need to get a DL in the VAST majority of states is an electric bill or some other piece of semi-official mail sent to you at an in-state address. Illegals have jobs, apartments, etc, which means that almost all of them can take the state driving test (in Spanish probably). The only reason the Repubs are up in arms is that they want to use drivers' licenses as proof of citizenship and if illegals are "allowed" to have drivers licenses, that wouldn't work for them. The only alternative to illegals having licenses to drive is a huge number of people driving without a license, which means they've never been tested to show they're able to drive relatively well. This is ALL politics on the Dem side too, because they know damn well that there's absolutely nothing to prevent illegal immigrants from obtaining a drivers' license. But the issue plays well politically with many Latino/Hispanic voters.

[Bluebear]

41. FIND LINK!!!!1111 THIS IS HUGH!!!!!! I AM SERIES!!

This suck's!!! Big time!!!!!!!!!!!!!~!1111

[cuke]

44. "most of these people can't even drive properly."

"these people"???

Is driving a skill only Americans can master?

[fenriswolf]

53. no but i can speak for someone who has been to a different country

granted i have never been in mexico but in some of the countries ihave visted (namely middle eastern countries) most lines on the roads are suggestions and lights and stop signs are a distraction.

[killbotfactory]

47. Why not?

They are going to drive anyway, unless you want to start deporting hundreds of thousands of people from every major city. It's best to make sure they know the rules of the road.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. The Original Poster Is A Clinton Basher And He Sees This As A Cudgel To Bash Her Over The Head With

I am beginning to believe you can judge a person by their enemies...

[desi]

59. I know that..

and I can't be taking all these pholk off ignore just to pile on...It's not right, back he goes.

[BootinUp]

68. only beginning?

lol.

[AtomicKitten]

49. In California, you must have a driver's license to get insurance.

HUGE problem in So Cal.

[mtnsnake]

54. How the fuck do you know that "most of these people can't even drive properly?"

Your post reaks of racial intolerance. What do you do, spend every waking minute sucking up the wisdom of Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh?

[IndianaJones]

57. some genetic scientist told him. nt.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. Maybe He's A Member Of The Minute Men

eom

[desi]

56. Dang b i g

All that hate and not a single recommend. rofl

[DemFemme]

62. Pandering to the Hispanic vote again with an eye to the general election

This will make it much harder for Spitzer to turn the NY Legislature into a Democratic majority
unless he spins this well.

[Colobo]

66. It's a stupid idea.

[BootinUp]

67. I think we should make them continue to hide and drive

without one.

edit: :sarcasm:

[Colobo]

69. No, I think we reform immigration laws first.

[BootinUp]

72. Good luck

America doesn't seem ready. Try again in another 10 years.