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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:04 PM Original message |
Can anyone demostrate that Hillary will increase GOP turnout? |
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chubby190 (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:08 PM Response to Original message |
1. I would argue |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:14 PM Response to Original message |
2. A couple of thoughts... |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:55 PM Response to Reply #2 |
43. I don't think Racism is going to be an issue with Obama. |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 08:43 AM Response to Reply #43 |
59. There's little doubt that it will be an issue to some. |
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niceypoo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:15 PM Response to Original message |
3. Don't be fooled into thinking the smear machine would react any differently... |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:29 PM Response to Reply #3 |
7. Gore was attacked mercilessly as was Kerry. |
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ginchinchili (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:05 PM Response to Reply #7 |
121. That's because they were the nominees. One of the things that is hurting Hillary... |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 02:17 PM Response to Reply #3 |
20. This isn't about the smear machine. It's about how Repub. voters HATE the Clintons and |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 02:21 PM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Well, except for the racists. |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 02:50 PM Response to Reply #21 |
22. And what about the sexists? |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 02:55 PM Response to Reply #22 |
23. See above. |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 03:38 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. I saw it. I disagree with your last two paragraphs... |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:10 PM Response to Reply #24 |
32. Thank you for confirming my point. |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:42 PM Response to Reply #32 |
36. Nice try. |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 08:32 AM Response to Reply #36 |
58. You may not, but there are countless posts advocating exactly that. |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 12:27 PM Response to Reply #58 |
78. You misunderstand me... |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 02:20 PM Response to Reply #78 |
94. "Demoralize our base" |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:23 PM Response to Reply #94 |
105. I don't believe that poll for a SECOND. |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:27 PM Response to Reply #105 |
107. So polls citing her negatives amongst GOPers are kosher? |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:44 PM Response to Reply #107 |
109. I posted a poll from CNN showing 80% of Repubs. dislike Hillary compared |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:53 PM Response to Reply #109 |
110. If memory serves that was because you quoted from the TV, posting links later |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:57 PM Response to Reply #110 |
112. Yup, I quoted the poll posted on the tv on CNN. Nobody believed me until the transcript |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 04:06 PM Response to Reply #112 |
113. Well you have to understand that your word will not always carry the day. |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 06:21 PM Response to Reply #113 |
114. That's a shame that people here would accuse me of making it up when |
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AdHocSolver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:03 PM Response to Reply #21 |
29. That viewpoint has given us mostly Republican presidents for the last fifty years. n/t |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:09 PM Response to Reply #29 |
31. You might want to read my post again. |
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mark414 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:43 PM Response to Reply #21 |
37. well, Louisiana just voted in an Indian governor |
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niceypoo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 11:26 PM Response to Reply #20 |
55. This is about the smear machine... |
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jenmito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 12:32 PM Response to Reply #55 |
79. No it's not. They'll smear ANY Dems. The Repub. hate for the Clintons is there and |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:21 PM Response to Original message |
4. Here's an article with some analysis... |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:23 PM Response to Reply #4 |
5. yeah. Analysis. We get that daily at DU. But where is answer to the OP's question? |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:27 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. Analysis? Its a bunch of unsupported supposition from 2003! |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:31 PM Response to Reply #6 |
9. So you don't see how any of that transfers to the 2008 race? |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:37 PM Response to Reply #9 |
10. The political climate of 2008 is very different from 2004. |
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zulchzulu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 03:52 PM Response to Reply #10 |
26. I could show you other info and you'd still reject it |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:00 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Feel free to show me any evidence. |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:29 PM Response to Reply #4 |
8. I suspect that the dynamic has changed a bit since that was written four years ago. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:38 PM Response to Original message |
11. I honestly don't understand how anyone can look back on the last 15 years... |
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OwnedByFerrets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:45 PM Response to Reply #11 |
15. Great response!! |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:47 PM Response to Reply #11 |
16. Response |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:54 PM Response to Reply #16 |
18. Again, I don't know how it can be proven until it happens. |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:02 PM Response to Reply #18 |
28. The problem is measuring that impact. |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 08:55 AM Response to Reply #28 |
61. "Deranged people by their very nature are unpredictable." |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 11:07 AM Response to Reply #61 |
67. Except for when they're not. |
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Nedsdag (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:04 PM Response to Reply #11 |
30. Thank you for saying this: |
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AdHocSolver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:59 PM Response to Reply #11 |
35. Close elections don't go our way because then it takes little effort to steal the election. |
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enough already (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:51 PM Response to Reply #35 |
41. There isn't one red state she can flip n/t |
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saracat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:13 PM Response to Reply #11 |
83. Amen Forkboy! |
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Double T (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:43 PM Response to Original message |
12. I believe the gop HATES Hillary as much as 'WE'.......... |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:44 PM Response to Original message |
13. Turnout in '96 was actually lower than turnout in '00. |
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OwnedByFerrets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:44 PM Response to Original message |
14. Anecdotally, I know that it will decrease Democratic |
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TwilightZone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 01:47 PM Response to Reply #14 |
17. Your anecdotal evidence doesn't match the data available. |
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OwnedByFerrets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 03:39 PM Response to Reply #17 |
25. Never said it would....nonetheless, its what I have to share. |
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bunnies (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 02:02 PM Response to Original message |
19. Of course no one can prove it... |
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AdHocSolver (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:43 PM Response to Original message |
33. You are asking the wrong question. |
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Dr Fate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 04:49 PM Response to Original message |
34. It's not for me to demonstrate. The GOP voters may demonstrate it for you soon enough. |
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slick8790 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:45 PM Response to Original message |
38. Did you watch the republican debate on sunday? |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:46 PM Response to Original message |
39. Do they hate Gore any less? Kerry? Edwards? |
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enough already (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:54 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. Yes |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:55 PM Response to Reply #42 |
45. Have you got any evidence for that? |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 07:21 PM Response to Reply #45 |
49. The last fifteen years. |
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Dr Fate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 07:31 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. Prove that the sky is blue- but dont ask me to look out the window. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 07:38 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. No shit, huh? |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 08:45 PM Response to Reply #53 |
54. "I said it in Hebrew--I said it in Dutch-- |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 09:00 AM Response to Reply #53 |
62. The Biblical Argument, Ay |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:35 AM Response to Reply #62 |
64. They think their delusions are obvious to all |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 11:11 AM Response to Reply #64 |
68. Give it up already. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 11:29 AM Response to Reply #68 |
69. Did you assume I was referring to you? |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 11:35 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. Like you weren't. |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #70 |
72. Can't We All Just Get Along |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 12:20 PM Response to Reply #72 |
76. And I would do the same, for you, him, or anyone here, even those I don't like. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:05 PM Response to Reply #76 |
81. DSB doesn't need your help. Democratic candidates do |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:29 PM Response to Reply #81 |
84. Yeah yeah...we heard your lame ass wrongness the first time. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:38 PM Response to Reply #84 |
87. Lots of right wing threads with no Forkboy on them |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:45 PM Response to Reply #87 |
88. Lots of right wing examples shown to you that said didn't matter. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:47 PM Response to Reply #88 |
89. Making up stuff won't help you |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 11:37 AM Response to Reply #68 |
71. If We Nominated Jesus The Rethugs Would Crucify Him On A Cross Built By Right Wing Evangelicals |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #71 |
73. Except jesus isn't running, Hillary is, and after Jesus they hate her the most. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:06 PM Response to Reply #73 |
82. And you are happy to repeat that "fact" |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:35 PM Response to Reply #82 |
86. Quit making a fool of yourself. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:49 PM Response to Reply #86 |
90. I noticed you won't deny that it's a right wing argument |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:54 PM Response to Reply #90 |
91. Saying the right hates her is a right wing argument? |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 02:17 PM Response to Reply #91 |
93. Both * and Rove made that argument |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 02:28 PM Response to Reply #93 |
95. Only I said she'd win the GE. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 02:30 PM Response to Reply #95 |
96. * and Rove agree with you |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 02:33 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. So, is your argument that the Right DOESN'T hate Hillary? |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 02:52 PM Response to Reply #97 |
98. My argument is that it's a right wing argument |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:01 PM Response to Reply #98 |
100. Now who is the one dodging? |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:04 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. Not dodging |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:17 PM Response to Reply #101 |
102. Oh, you're dodging, and it's clear to see for all of us. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:20 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. Not dodging |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:22 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. You're funny, and clearly dodging. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:28 PM Response to Reply #104 |
108. The right hates every Democrat |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 11:47 AM Response to Reply #49 |
74. Deleted sub-thread |
enough already (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:50 PM Response to Original message |
40. How about the Gallup poll this week? |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 08:45 AM Response to Reply #40 |
60. Here's The Latest Gallup Poll And Other Polls |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:55 PM Response to Original message |
44. Can you prove that it won't? |
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illinoisprogressive (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 05:57 PM Response to Original message |
46. Hillary is also depress dem turnout |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 07:25 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. Actually Obama depresses turnout amongst Democrats (at least in comparison to Hillary) |
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PurityOfEssence (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 06:27 PM Response to Original message |
47. Here's an interesting WaPo article |
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DemFemme (315 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 07:11 PM Response to Original message |
48. I'd like to see this asked of Republican likely voters in a poll |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 07:26 PM Response to Reply #48 |
51. I would like to see polling like that as well. |
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DemocratSinceBirth (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 09:02 AM Response to Reply #48 |
63. Wow |
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RebelSansCause (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 11:30 PM Response to Original message |
56. by turning away moderate voters who would have voted |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:41 AM Response to Reply #56 |
66. polling disputes your contention |
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Stop Cornyn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Oct-23-07 11:33 PM Response to Original message |
57. I cannot demonstrate how it will be cold on election day in Maine, but common sense says it will be. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:40 AM Response to Reply #57 |
65. I can |
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Perry Logan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 12:16 PM Response to Original message |
75. I say let them turn out. The "higher GOP turnout" argument is an argument based on fear. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:04 PM Response to Reply #75 |
80. So is the "vote for Hillary or the SCOTUS gets even worse" argument. |
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ginchinchili (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 09:46 PM Response to Reply #75 |
116. Chill out for a minute. Not all republicans are crazy. |
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antiimperialist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 12:24 PM Response to Original message |
77. Many also wrongly assume that the GOP won't swiftboat Obama or Edwards if they win |
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harun (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:32 PM Response to Reply #77 |
85. Do you think Hillary may actually have more immunity to this |
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DrFunkenstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 01:57 PM Response to Original message |
92. You Could Trace their Fundraising Numbers According to Her Mentions |
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rinsd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:55 PM Response to Reply #92 |
111. I have brought that up as a possible experiment. |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 02:57 PM Response to Original message |
99. you know there are many ways to demostrate that it could happen |
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AtomicKitten (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 03:25 PM Response to Original message |
106. Demonstration. |
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ginchinchili (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 06:34 PM Response to Original message |
115. You offer a challenge that's impossible to take. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 09:52 PM Response to Reply #115 |
117. Because Hillary is the front runner |
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ginchinchili (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:01 PM Response to Reply #117 |
119. This is not true. They talked more about the Democrats as a whole. |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:05 PM Response to Reply #119 |
120. Nope |
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ginchinchili (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:14 PM Response to Reply #120 |
122. Then why did it start with Karl Rove before the primary every started? |
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cuke (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:20 PM Response to Reply #122 |
124. The same reason it started with Rove in 2003 - BEFORE the primaries |
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Colobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 09:52 PM Response to Original message |
118. No. Obama is our best candidate. |
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ginchinchili (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Oct-24-07 10:16 PM Response to Reply #118 |
123. Except that we're at war and Obama has ZERO foreign policy experience. |
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fightindonkey (674 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-25-07 02:31 AM Response to Original message |
125. LMAO! The Myth Created By The GOP About Clinton. People, Wake Up. |
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