How is it possible for ANYONE to care if Edwards or Kerry wins the nom?

[edzontar]

They are almost identical in their pro-war, pro-corporate ideology, and have based their entire campaigns on claims of "electability."

Well guess what:

I will HAVE to vote for the nomineee because I live in PA--which will be very close, but as far as I am concerned, the primaries ended yesterday when the last serious anti-establishment candidate dropped out of the race.

I for one will be tuning out this pointless race between Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum, because it would bore and depress me to no end.

At least "Angel" will be on for a few more months, and after that, there are those weighty DVD collections of "Green Acres" and "Lost in Space" to get through.

Either one of these, and almost anyhting else I can think of, will be more relevant to my life and spirit than trying to care about the battle between Kerry vs. Edwards--which from where I sit is nothing more than an infinitely more boring version of Spy vs. Spy.

[Guaranteed]

1. Seriously. I don't give two shits at this point. nt

[gWbush is Mabus]

2. I don't care either.

this country is fucked

[GreenArrow]

104. say it again

the country is fucked. Seriously fucked.

[mhr]

3. Agree Completely, The Democratic Party Has Been Lost Again

To special interests.

Replacing * will be a non-event as the presumed nominee saddles up to the corporate water trough for directions.

[Gman]

4. Its this type of apathy that will go a long way to electing Bush

If you think watching Green Acres is more important than the future of this country, your real interest and committment to freeing this country become questionable

[polpilot]

6. Not 'apathy' but DLC pro-war...Bush-lite...Bush-like establishment 'picks'

Dean...The ONLY Hope in '04

[shivaji]

80. Dean was the only true breath of fresh air in 2004, the rest of

them are nothing but old cud regurgitated. Get ready for
4 years of grid-lock, corporate whoring, Bush-lite, GOP
majority congress.........wake me up in 4 years!

[loupe-garou]

102. I guess you haven't paid attentio to Kerry's voting record

on the environment, women's issues, veteran's issues etc

[Carolina]

109. yeah, we have ...

his record of the past 3 years.

Besides elections are no longer about record. They're frigging personality, likeability, popularity contests. On record:

Carter was better Reagan
Mondale was better than Reagan
Dukakis was better than Bush 41
Gore was infinitely better than Bush 43

Record ain't squat and the only record the GOP and its media enablers will talk about this election cycle are Kerry's go along votes during 43's tenure. For the rest, he'll be tarred and feathered as a Massachusetts, elitist liberal (can you hear the sneer?).

[edzontar]

8. I don't think Green Acres is more important than the future of

Than the future of the country.

I SAID I will vote for the nominee.

I just don't care if its Kerry or Edwards.

Honestly--what is the difference?

[polpilot]

16. Honestly...Kerry is older than Edwards. Other than that...no differences.

/

[shivaji]

81. The only diff. is Kerry is old and crusty, Edwards is 50 and slick

[RafterMan]

19. You mean

If Edwards runs a pro-Iraq war campaign, talking about how Saddam presented "a direct threat to the security of the American people " and "we couldn't let those who could veto in the Security Council hold us hostage" it won't drive you insane?

At least Kerry has had the courtesy to waffle on the issue.

[edzontar]

35. It is a minor distinction, IMHO

Both are complete sell-outs or worse on this issue.

[retyred]

118. Crying in ones milk

seems to be the flavor of the day, the doom and gloom crowd are bush's best asset for victory.

What a pathetic group of Democrats(?)



retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[seventhson]

5. They WANT YOU to tune out folks!!!

Thisd is exactly wht the right wing wants - that you be lulled into a complicit apathetuc sleep.

There is plenty to do and despite the fact that Kerry is a Bonesman and Edwards is not as progressive as we wish they are STILL better choices than a continuation of the status quo.

You could still go wild for DK or Dean or Clark and raise hell at the convention to get your issues aired and addressed.

Remember - fascism thrives on the udea that resistance is futile.

What is really futile is failing to resist fascism.

I have kids. Please help us defeat Bush.

Do not just tune out because that will make Bush and Rove and Cheney VERY happy

[Guaranteed]

7. Resistance IS futile as long as our OWN PARTY keeps

FUCKING us, over and over!

[Ninga]

11. Hello? We let them "f**k us over when we are apathatic.

We can only be f**ked over, if we let them.

I am 60 years old. My guess is that you are young.

My mind and experince and your youth should come together in a new movement.......wanna?

[edzontar]

36. I am not apathetic. i am digusted and defeated--for now...

But I have not yet begin to to fight for REAL change.

That is not likely to come from either of the Senators.

But again, I am in PA, so my vote in November is clear.

[Guaranteed]

59. Hell yeah!

I'm down :)

[Carolina]

113. exactly, they screwed us

in 2002 with their go along votes to get Iraq off the table. What a laugh. We still lost and Iraq is anything but off the table.

So for 2004, we mount grassroots campaigns behind a lone voice that spoke out for us early --thank you, Dr. Dean-- and draft an outsider Then the party insiders complicit with the media squash them.

It is pretty discouraging, but I'm not ready to give up yet. I'm over 50 and I want to fight to see all the bastards responsible for the mess we're in get their just come-uppance

[gate of the sun]

122. I'm not slamming Dean

but he wasn't a lone voice.....Kucinich has spoken for us long before his was even running for Pres. he even tried to stop the IWR vote....why do people completly ignore him?

I've heard many Dean supporters saying they could never support Kucinich because he threw his votes to Edwards in the Iowa caucas....yet they forget that Dean has always acted like Kucinich didn't exist and that he was the only one saying anything against the administration which was wrong and now you are doing it.... I don't understand why.......lone voice I think not.

[Ninga]

9. Right ON Seventhson!

In the final anaylsis, the true agents for change will find a way to become part of the new movement. It will be a lot of work.

Or to say it another way, "put their money, time and energy where their mouths (emails)are." Or "put up or shut up."

[edzontar]

10. The PA primary is April 27--I will vote for Dean or DK

Depending on the situation.

If it looks like Edwards can beat Kerry at that point, i might even give him a hand, if only to get even for the Osama ads.

But that is the extent of my involvement until the GE.

[eileen_d]

13. edited

Have a nice day. :)

[edzontar]

15. Dear friend, from what I am reading here, it seems I am not alone....

And I do have some other hobbies...like those DVDs, plus a job to do, boks, writing, travel, so it is not like I will bored.

I said I will vote for the nominee, so what is the big deal anyway?

I just can't see much difference between Kerry and Edwards--or not enough to actually get me worked up, if y'know what i mean.

[polpilot]

20. The request, Edzontar, is that one 'act' excited about a Kerry or Edwards

candidacy. As if some change is to be had by supporting a pro-war...pro-establishment DLC candidate. To ignore Kerry & Edwards' votes and committment to illegal wars 8,500 miles away is not possible and produces heckling from other well informed persons.

[Anwen]

74. Good!

Seeing as how there really is no choice left for us, I think you should vote for Dean anyway. From Dean's speech yesterday:


"As the fight moves forward, I have some things that I specifically want to ask of you.

First, keep active in the primary. We are still on the ballots. Sending delegates to the convention only continues to energize our party. Fight on in the caucuses. Use your network to send progressive delegates to the convention in Boston. We are not going away. We are staying together, unified -- all of us."



I will still be voting for Dean on Super Tuesday.

[Gman]

12. As long as you vote for the nominee in November

even if you have to hold your nose while voting, that's all anyone can ask.

[loupe-garou]

110. Thanks, Seventhson- you're right- we can't hold our breaths

until we get perfection. There are a lot of us who would love thing to be much more progressive, but somehow we got here, where we're going backwards on ALL the issues we care about- you name it, the right wing has damaged it!

So should we be pragmatic or utopian????? I can't think of another option besides getting behind our guy, whoever he is and pushing as hard as we can!!!!!!!

I have kids, too, and things could get infinitely scarier!

[NoPasaran]

14. For what it's worth

I'd rather see Edwards debate Busholini than Kerry. I think the smart southern guy would cut the dumb pseudosouthern guy to bloody ribbons. But aside from that I don't see much diff between the two.

[Ripley]

22. I would have to agree...Edwards looks more "alive" in debates.

And that would be a plus in the Smirkaholic debate.

[madrchsod]

17. green acres is more entertaining

and more relevant than listening to Kerry say he`s going to change the direction of this country with the same old hacks advising him. don`t look for one original thought coming out of these people`s heads. think we will be out of Iraq? a rational middle east policy? job creation? tax reform? don`t count on it.

[edzontar]

37. Right. I LOVE Green Acres. It is a very funny and surrealstic show.

Meanwhile, the primaries have become a crushing bore, at best.

[HERVEPA]

18. Have you checked Kerry's voting record?

He is liberal. All the liberal organizations that rate him rate him high. The conservative ones rate him low.
The other guys who are now out of the race are no more liberal than he is.

And yes, I would like Kucinich if it was possible, maybe I would have preferred Dean, but Kerry is liberal enough.

The revolution isn't happening. And it wouldn't necessarily be any prize if it did. There's going to be a flow back and forth, as there always has been. Kerry will do his best to swing it as far left as is possible.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. "Kerry will do his best to swing it as far left as is possible."

He had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to go as far "left"* as he is now. The big question is whether he'll revert to his old self once the nomination is sewn up. I don't think so but pray to be proven wrong.



*"Left" being, in this case, in opposition to the policies and rhetoric of the Republicans. He's there now, rhetorically. Finally. Now we wait and see if it was a true conversion or one of convenience. I remain deeply convinced that it is the latter (due to prima facie evidence) but hope that it's the former.

[Ripley]

29. They keep saying he has such a high Liberal rating.

I'd like to know which liberal Peace and Non-violence groups Ok'd these guys position on Iraq. And how many liberal education groups Ok'd their position on NCLBehind? Oops and I forgot, is it the ACLU that gave them a 100% rating for signing the Patriot Act?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

52. Much of that rating was accrued pre-1994.

And then the New Democrats hit the scene. Bringing you such memorable hits as the Tel-Com Act, NAFTA and Welfare Reform. They showed that they weren't one-hit wonders by following up later with toe-tappers like the IWR, Patriot Act, Homeland Security and NCLB.

[gate of the sun]

123. that is true

and yet they still want to say he is so liberal.

[lovedems]

21. Tweedle- Dee and Tweedle- Dum are occupying the WH right now

not running for the democratic nomination. I am sorry that you have suddenly lost interest in the most important Presidential race in our generation.

[edzontar]

38. I will be voting against Bush and for the Dem--is that a problem?

I just don't make any real distinction between the two senators, is all.

[lovedems]

60. My problem is you calling Kerry and Edwards Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum

I find that offensive when the real idiots are occupying the WH. If you want to bash the dems, that's fine. Don't expect me to jump and down with joy. I find it offensive and unneccessary. Name calling is republican tactic and I expect more out of democrats.

If you have lost interest, that is to bad.

[edzontar]

61. What I am saying with this metaphor is that they are very much ALIKE

It is a rather indisputable observation.

And has nothing to do with Bush/Cheney.

[RetroLounge]

99. Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum

seems about correct for me.

2 sides of the same coin.

[CWebster]

23. What's "Angel"?

Am I missing something?

;-)

Nah, I'm in PA too, and that's how they played me to vote for Gore last time---essential swing state and all. I don't know this time, maybe someone will have to pay me. hehe.

[Deaner1971]

26. Angel is a TV show

And a good one at that.

[edzontar]

39. And th bastards at WB cancleed it. After a series of recent classics

Like the possesed TV kiddie show puppets from last night.

More relevant socially and politically than anything I have heard from the Senators, and MUCH funnier too (though Edwards can indeed be charming).

[Deaner1971]

42. No more info

It airs in Columbus tonight so, no spoilers!

[edzontar]

48. Sorry! I left out the best parts.

It is one for the ages, really....

[Deaner1971]

25. I am sick of the "insider" versus "outsider" argument

How can anybody see a man who wants to be President as an "outsider". If government is made up of "insiders" and the President runs the government, aren't they all applying for the ultimate insider job. You can't say you hate country clubs and then apply to run one and have any credibility.

I have the ultimate respect for Gov. Dean but, I do not think that he was the single candidate most able to appeal to swing voters. He was absolutely fantastic at mobilizing Progressive who have felt disenfranchised and disconnected but, I don't see him turning any red states to blue states.

I like John Kerry. The man was willing to shed blood for his country and then speak his mind about a war that he saw first hand. I think that he and Edwards or he and Clark will be a ticket that can beat Bush/Cheney in November and if that is electability, then yeah, I consider that when I look at candidates. I want Bush out of the White House more than anything. If we have to all find a compromise candidate that the largest number of Dems, Greens, and Independants can get behind and "One and Done" Bush, then so be it. Our nation's future is at stake and both Kerry and Edwards are better stewards than Bush Inc.

If your candidate failed to get the nom, then make sure that you communicate to the nominee the issues that made your candidate attractive. Give these men a chance to learn from the platform of your chosen candidate. You stand a better chance of being heard by John Kerry that by George Bush.

Also, if you are turned off til November, get involved in House, Senate, or state and local elections. We need the neo-cons out of the House, the Congress, Governor's mansions, and statehouses too. We can take this nation back and the White House is only the beginning.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

27. Here's 9 reasons:

William H. Rehnquist, born: October 1, 1924...79 years old.

John Paul Stevens, born: April 20, 1920...83 years old.

Antonin Scalia, born: March 11, 1936...67 years old.

Sandra Day O'Connor, born: March 26, 1930...73 years old.

Anthony M. Kennedy, born: July 23, 1936...67 years old.

David Hackett Souter, born: September 17, 1939...64 years old.

Clarence Thomas, born: June 23, 1948...55 years old.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg, born: March 15, 1933...70 years old.

Stephen G. Breyer, born: August 15, 1938...65 years old.

[Deaner1971]

30. Fantastic point

The Supremes are an amazing reason why Bush has to go. Either Kerry or Edwards will appont judges who protect what we hold dear but, can you even imagine what nominees Bush would have given nominees to the Federal Court bench?

I shudder to think how many apoointments he could make in 4 years and this is another reason why we have to get control of Congress back. We cannot let his neo-facist appointees see the light of day on the Supreme Court.

[lovedems]

31. I hope you don't that I have been sharing that! You always get the

credit for it!

Here is another one someone shared: It is broken down by liberal, conservative and swing voters. It came from bain_sidhe

Liberal (mostly) SC Justices

John Paul Stevens, born: April 20, 1920...83 years old.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, born: March 15, 1933...70 years old.
Stephen G. Breyer, born: August 15, 1938...65 years old.
David Hackett Souter, born: September 17, 1939...64 years old.

Centrist/Moderate Justices (swing votes on abortion and civil rights)
Sandra Day O'Connor, born: March 26, 1930...73 years old.
Anthony M. Kennedy, born: July 23, 1936...67 years old.

Conservative/Reichwing Justices

William H. Rehnquist, born: October 1, 1924...79 years old.
Antonin Scalia, born: March 11, 1936...67 years old.
Clarence Thomas, born: June 23, 1948...55 years old.

It's worth noting that the oldest Justice is on the liberal wing, and a second liberal justice, Ginsburg, has had a bout with cancer. "Swing vote" O'Connor, too, has has a bout with cancer.

[Lex]

34. Yes! How can anyone NOT care?

If someone thinks that it's not important to have DEM in the White House to make the next round of Supreme Court appointments, then they're just not paying attention.

Does anyone NOT understand that Roe v. Wade could easily be rolled back with just ONE appointment by a Repuke President?!

Jeez.

[edzontar]

45. Again--these are reponses to other arguments--not mine...

I already said I would vote for the nominee, so whya re you posting this?

[edzontar]

44. Did you read my post? I am Voting FOR the nominee!!!!!

I live in Pa--I have no choice.

Please, if you must respond, try to address my argument.

[seaglass]

94. You haven't made an argument, you've made a complaint. n/t

[edzontar]

91. Kerry voted to APPROVE Scalia for the court.....

And he is probably the worst wingnut of the bunch.

Anyway, I am voting for the nominee so what is your point?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

103. Did he approve Thomas? anyway, don't miss this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=374002

[edzontar]

105. I think not.

Look, I will vote for the nominee anyway, so what's the diff?

[maxanne]

108. the point?

Do you think Kerry is somehow going to save us from SCOTUS? If he somehow does get elected, they'll all just hang in for another 4 years.

Here's a question to ask yourself - why haven't any of them left yet?
They have had the perfect opportunity in the last 3 years.

Kerry did not vote for Thomas - but he did for Scalia. Who is the more dangerous of the two?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

112. WHY HAVEN'T ANY LEFT?

Because O'Connor came to her senses and realized her reputaion needed a little reviving after selection 2000.

[maxanne]

120. that doesn't explain

the rest of them.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

121. O'Connor is the only one who threatened to retire

and the rest seem to want to serve for the rest of their natural days.
God Bless... some of them.

[Carolina]

114. and Uncle Thomas too

[G_j]

28. try not to be part of the problem

"the last serious anti-establishment candidate dropped out of the race."

what about Kucinich and Sharpton?

??

[edzontar]

46. I like those guys, and will be paying attention to THEM, yes indeed

It is the likely winners that bore me.

[Toby109]

32. Why don't we work like hell to get a Dem

elected THEN maybe we can change the system. I recall that when Clinton won in '92 the left, after 12 years of Reagan/Bush, just heaved a big sigh of relief and forgot that the struggle for progress is eternal. I know I did.

Let's not take it for granted this time. With Bush in we have no chance at all.

[Khephra]

33. Saturday Night Live might as well repeat their Gore vs Bush

debate skits this fall. It's going to look the same. Remember the ones where Gore and Bush did nothing but agree on everything until they questioned why they were running against each other?

It will be the same exact situation, but this time the major issues will involve the war on "terra".

I'm ABB, but I'm sure as hell not proud of either of the two major candidates being our last two viable choices.

[Castilleja]

40. edzontar, I totally agree.

It is all just disgusting and sad.

[RichM]

41. How is Kucinich not a "serious anti-establishment candidate?"

I agree totally about Kerry vs Edwards, FWIW.

[edzontar]

47. I would love it if DK was the nominee....and will be watching

HIM at least.

[Freddie Stubbs]

83. Perhaps the fact that after 17 states have primaries and caucuses

and he has yet to win a single pledged delegate. Even Al Sharpton has done that.

[Walt Starr]

43. All I care about is seeing Kerry NOT win the nomination

ergo, I am forced to support the anti-Kerry.

It's sort of how I'll be voting in the General Election anyway. All I care about in the general Election is seeing Geroge W. Bush NOT win, so in that instance I'll be voting for the anti-Bush.

[Deaner1971]

50. Why so anti-Kerry?

Just curious.

[Walt Starr]

79. Because of the remaining candidates, Kerry sucks the most

and to defeat Kerry, I have to compromise my values in order to vote for the candidate most likely to defeat the suckiest candidate.

It's good preparation for what I'll have to do this fall.

[Deaner1971]

82. "Sucks" and "suckiest" are certainly vaild and lucid points

But could you be more specific. I'd like to think your beliefs are measurable.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

49. I will still watch the race

But only because there is one thing in particular I am watching for. I want to see if the trend of "record turnouts" still occurrs. I will go vote for Dean in the Texas primary. But I am wondering if the trend will continue. My guess is, it will slow dramatically. That will be a clear indicator of what will happen in November which I am guessing will be a whole lot of the same old thing.

[edzontar]

54. My guess--turnout will drop off drastically....

Hopefully this will not happen in November too.

[GodHelpUsAll2]

55. Me too

But I fear it will.

[Snivi Yllom]

51. How many of these people are excited to vote

For a candidate that enabled the war they protested?

[GodHelpUsAll2]

53. Good Question

I for one will not be excited at all.

[Carolina]

115. my enthusiasm

suffered a blow last week when Clark bowed out. But it died yesterday now that we no longer have Dr. Dean's voice out there.

We needed that chorus of voices speaking out against Bush...

Now we've basically got boring Kerry with the waffling, Senate-speak, put-me-to-sleep oratory, and I feel like: wake me when this nightmare is over.

[OKNancy]

56. I'll be excited to see Bush gone

Oh the day of the inauguration will be splendid. Bush, with his nasty little smirk and Cheney with his evil eyes.....and they will see the Democrats cheering.

And Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld and all of them will have to pack their bags.....

Eyes on the Prize....

[GodHelpUsAll2]

57. Don't get me wrong

I will be glad to have Bush gone also. But it's a sad sad day when all we have to do that with is a lot of the same old thing. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Zomby Woof]

58. it will always amaze me

It will never fail to amaze me that Dean supporters cling to the deeply cherished myth than Dean was "anti-establishment". Suuuurrrre he was. All those DC insiders on his staff, being a governor for 12 years, endorsed by Gore, Bradley, and other high-ranking Democratic party officials. A real outsider and rabble-rouser he was. I laugh whenever a true believer claims Dean was one of them, lol.

Dean IS the establishment folks, and a rather Republican-corporate-friendly part of it at that. He really isn't all that far removed from the DLC, other than his false rhetoric.

I am still smiling from yesterday's news. :-)

[edzontar]

63. I expected nothing less.

By the way, if you really want to attract orphaned Dean supporters to Kucinich, you should try a diffferent line of argument.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[edzontar]

76. I think it is best to let this post speak for itself.

nt.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[edzontar]

87. So, what are your thoughts regarding "Green Acres"?

And the other shows I mentioned above?

I think they are pretty good TV shows.

[edzontar]

64. On another thread: "Us Kucinich supporters welcome the Dean Supporters"

More:

"Time for us progressives to unite under the only progressive left in the race, Dennis Kucinich!"

It seems some of your colleagues are more willing to make common cause with us that your post would suggest.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sly Kal]

68. It amazes me

that people continue to mischaracterize who Howard Dean is because they can't get past the false premise that Left=anti establishment and centrist/right=establishment.

[edzontar]

72. So you suppport the center-right?

do you think the "establishment" is leftist?

Just asking.

I am a lefty, myself.

[Maddy McCall]

107. If you are supporting Dean, you are supporting a centrist...

nothing much liberal about Dean, except his rhetoric.

Edit: oops, forgot to post in past tense; if you WERE supporting Dean....

[Zomby Woof]

77. in this case

That allegedly false premise aside, two facts remain irrefutable:

1. Howard Dean IS the establishment, and not because of ideology. It is because of his record, his payroll, and his actions.

2. Regardless of his ideology, leftists DO cling to the myth that he is one of them. THEY buy into the 'false' ideological argument.


That being said, I despise the squishy center, and Howard Dean, for those reasons, and others I have listed again and again on DU for months.

[edzontar]

86. I think your words in this thread make your views quite clear.

nt.

[West Coast Democrat]

88. I couldn't agree with you more!

I mean, everyone and their dog endorsed Dean at one point!!

[Maddy McCall]

106. Tellin' the Zomby Troof...

Man, you hit the nail on the head. Amazing to me, too. Just because a politician talks the talk is no indication that he walks the walk.

:thumbsup:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

62. I am sorry Dean withdrew from the race

That said, there are plenty of differences between Edwards and Kerry in their background and experience.

I can understand the lack of excitement since your candidate withdrew but I'll take a boring guy that thinks before he speaks and acts anyday.

BTW, my favored candidate Bob Graham was out before the race even started and certainly had the most credentials to manage the country.

I didn't make claims of media bias even though he got NO coverage because it was beng dwarfed by Howard Dean at the time.

I didn't claim to sit home because my guy pulled out.

And I certainly did not, at that time, begin a campaign to smear all other candidates.

[Sly Kal]

67. okay

We are talking very different circumstances here. Graham was boring and didn't attract support. Dean gained a lot of support and had an organized effort by both the media and the Stop Dean movement, of which your new candidate (Kerry) was a part, to get rid of him.
You can't compare the two situations.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

69. Sure I can. At the time Dean was running a STOP EVERYONE ELSE

campaign claiming to represent the Democratic wing of the democratic party even though he had parsed his own words on IRaq, buried his gubernatorial papers, locked environmentalists out of negotiations with developers and garnered a 100% rating from the NRA...one of the most RACIST lobbying organizations on the planet.

the two are absolutely comparable.

[edzontar]

71. Graham is a great guy. I did not find him boring.

He was one of the best in the filed, IMHO.

[vision]

65. i did my vote and voted DK

But now that Dean is out I am afraid that DK will be sidelined even more than he is now. With Dean in the had to keep an illusion of a horse race, while they hammered for Dean to drop out. Now that he has dropped out they will run the "Two-Man Race" memo and leave DK and Sharpton out entirely.

Myself at least right now cannot get excited about Kerry or Edwards. DK I can get behind, Dean I liked his passion, Clark I liked his integrity but the leading contenders to me don't have the soul of DK, the passion of Dean or the integrity of Clark.

[edzontar]

66. See post number 58 for a different perspective

nt.

[Jacobin]

70. IraqNam Quagmire. That's what

[JVS]

84. Edwards is Southern and more photogenic

but that's about the whole difference

[edzontar]

89. Yes. there are some differences in packaging...

That seems to be about it.

[Carolina]

117. packaging sells

It's sad but style trumps substance in this telegenic, media age.

Edwards packaging offers more than Kerry's record and vaunted electability when it comes to swing voters, independents and disaffected repugs. Many of them can't stand Kerry for starters and thus can't/won't be bothered to check out what he stands for or against or for one moment and against the next or .......

[West Coast Democrat]

85. The Two "Anti-Establishment" Candidates are Still In It!

So I don't really understand what you're talking about. No one who has dropped out so far is what I would refer to as "anti-establishment."

[drfemoe]

90. Hey, you could watch this

a few times to pass some time ..
http://homepage.mac.com/stevehernandez/iMovieTheater5.html
"Make Your Own Kind Of Music"

[Sushi-Lover]

92. I'm not sure what people find so threatening about this post

I view things somewhat similarly. Although, I have to say I think they are different in important ways, but they are equally 'electable' in my opinion. It isn't that both the Edwards and Kerry glasses are empty for me, but that they are equally half full (and equally half empty). I'm not really excited by either one and I will wait to become involved until a nominee is chosen. What is so bad about that? Am I required to like one more then the other? Do I have to be interested in them?

Edit- On second thought I see the title asks how anyone can be interested. I took it as an expression of frustration because I'm not the target. I can see why that is taken as an insult to people who are backing one or the other.

[edzontar]

96. Not meant as an insult...but a PLEA or CRY in the wilderness...

It came to me overnight in a dream---that i really did NOT care since my vote was pretty much determined by my geography...but then, there really is NO major difference in policy between the two--is there?

[corporatewhore]

93. Tweedledee '04!!!!!

[West Coast Democrat]

95. Hey! I'm bummed that my state's primary is in frickin' May!!

I'm excited about voting in the primaries and in November. I can't wait!!

[Minstrel Boy]

97. I wonder - if Kerry wins, and Iraq becomes a "Democratic" occupation,

how many currently opposed will find cause to support it? Because whether Bush or Kerry win, I fully expect Iraq to be garrisoned by American troops four years from now. Disheartening, I know, but there you have it.

And this is as disheartening a season as 1968, after Eugene McCarthy faltered and Robert Kennedy was murdered, and the last man standing was Hubert Humphrey. Why should opponents of Bush's pillaging be excited at the prospect of supporting one of its enablers?

Getting rid of Bush should mean more than getting rid of the man. Or is it really, after all, just personal?

[West Coast Democrat]

98. For me, it's about more than just Iraq..............

A lot more

[RandomUser]

100. Doesn't matter to me

The best guy for the job was Clark. He was the only one I would be voting FOR instead of voting AGAINST Bush. Now, it's just ABB, and I'll be voting AGAINST Bush, but not so much voting FOR someone. Sigh.

Gotta love a system that's so diastrous that you end up voting purely against someone rather than for someone who inspires you. We had the chance at creating a great presidency and we threw it away. If we lose to the Chimp, we have only ourselves to blame for not nominating Clark.

[incapsulated]

101. I believe one of them can win, and the other can't

And one of them is qualified, and the other isn't.

But Kerry will win, despite rumors to the contrary, so I'm not that concerned.

That's about it.

Passion, excitement, inspiration? That left with Clark, for me.

[Slice]

111. Flame bait.

Flame bait. Flame bait. Flame bait. Flame bait. Flame bait.

[Tweed]

116. I want to win in 2004, that's why. Edwards doesn't stand a chance n\t

[anti-NAFTA]

119. There's a significant difference between the two.

Edwards is more of a protectionist with broad appeal. Kerry is a centrist who has a record of being very liberal on social issues but has spewed some of the most vitriolic stuff against his own state's supreme court.

[scarletwoman]

124. I'm with you. The status quo will be amply protected, hardly an exciting

prospect. The corporatocracy will trundle onward just fine, and the militant centrists need not fear any untidy revolutions.

I'll be caucusing for Kucinich, that much I can do. Then I'll vote for the Dem nominee in November -- knowing full well that it won't be DK, of course. And knowing full well that it will only mean voting for a slightly "kinder, gentler" front man for the ruling class.

Afterward, I shall attend to my garden, live small and simply, and teach my children how to survive on the fringes and beneath the radar of the Empire.

So... Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...

sw