Is Obama lying about why he didn't vote for the Iran resoluition? Biden says everyone knew

[Herman Munster]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-101207-obama,0,2758281.story

But Biden also questioned why Obama was campaigning in New Hampshire instead of staying in Washington voting against the resolution. "I wonder why he wasn't there to vote," Biden said. "We all knew that this vote was coming up."

[jefferson_dem]

1. Is Hillary lying about why she supported it?

Clinton then explained that she had gone to the Senate floor in February to state that Bush does not have the authority to use military action against Iran and that she is working on legislation to put that into law. Rolph once again challenged her recent vote, suggesting that it amounted to giving Bush a free hand..

"I'm sorry, sir, it does not," she said, her voice showing her exasperation. "No, no, let me just say one other thing because I respect your research. There was an earlier version that I opposed. It was dramatically changed ... I would never have voted for the first version. The second version ripped out what was considered very bellicose and very threatening language."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/10/07/clintons_iran_vote_prompts_a_h.html

This sounds really fishy to me. Perhaps she was rubber-stamping yet another Chimpy war plan?

[Tellurian]

2. This thread is about Obama not Hillary...

There are other threads for that..

Just what we need is another...

[jefferson_dem]

5. This thread is about the Iran vote.

Has Hillary explained her war-mongering to your satisfaction?

[cuke]

17. Can someone tell me which cartoon is funnier?

I'm having problems deciding on a candidate, and some supporters seem to think I should choose on the basis of cartoons

[Dawgs]

13. No. This thread is about someone using a quote from another candidate to attack Obama.

Would you be okay with someone using an Edwards quote as proof against Hillary? I doubt it.

[cuke]

31. It was OK when Obama supporters used a quote from Carter

to attack Clinton re: Kyl/Lieberman resolution.

[MADem]

4. She's on record as having voted. Or are we not going to talk about who voted anymore? NT

[emilyg]

23. Stay on topic.

[MADem]

3. I do think he ducked the vote. But hey, that was his choice.

He looked downstream, and knew full well that in the ENTIRELY UNLIKELY event that Iran did something insanely idiotic like pull a version of Nahn Wun Wun, then he wouldn't be on record as voting NO. Far better to have missed a vote than be on record as going "the wrong way."

It was plainly a dodge. And it's also plain to see why he did it. It was a practical, entirely political decision to inoculate himself against an unlikely-in-the-extreme, but possible, future event.

I don't see why people should get bent out of shape about it. At least it shows some political acumen. That's not a bad thing, even though many people nowadays like to see it that way.

[Herman Munster]

6. the problem is he's being a hypocrite

by attacking hillary while he was AWOL.

[MADem]

9. Well, it's a weak attack when he didn't go on record with a vote, and he knows it.

I don't think Senator Clinton is too concerned. If he keeps beating that drum, and tries to do anything more with it than toss a bone to his already-converted minions, more than Senators Biden and Dodd will point out that THEY got the word about the vote.

He's doing the "fast swipe" and "move on to another topic." It pumps up his diehard supporters. Anyone looking at the matter critically will naturally ask the question "Well, where the fuck were YOU, there, Mister Know It All?"

It's not really hypocrisy, it's politics. This is for the consumption of his contributors and supporters. It makes them feel superior, while he can safely DENY that he voted NO if he needs to (just in case Iran goes NUTZO and unleashes a nuke in Times Square, for example)--a "have cake, eat it too" device that other politicians have used in the past as well.

You shouldn't get too upset by it. It is what it is, and nothing more.

[BootinUp]

8. Yes that part, missing the vote, was pretty sly, but launching

an attack on his opponent for her vote has revealed him to be quite a novice after all.

[MADem]

11. As I said just above, it's really more for his already-converted supporters

...and maybe for the naive types who aren't paying attention. He'd be a fool to beat that drum too hard, IMO.

[Dawgs]

16. That's your opinion. My opinion is that you're wrong.

[MADem]

22. I used the word "think"--as in, "I do think." So yes, it WAS an opinion. But gee, thanks for

reiterating what was already PLAIN in my subject line, there!!! And reiterating that you have a different view!

Not that said reiteration provides any additional light on the subject, though it does add a degree of earnest heat....

:eyes:

[BootinUp]

7. lol. Obama is losing this little skirmish big time.

To my friends that support Obama, please forgive me for saying.

[maximusveritas]

10. No, looks like Biden is lying. Or at least, he needs to speak for himself

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r110:1:./temp/~r110IRswkQ:e130345
This is what Harry Reid said:

We have tried to work something out on the Kyl-Lieberman amendment and the Biden amendment. We have been unable to do that.

We have been very close a few times, but we have just been informed that Senator Biden will not have a vote anytime in the near future. There will not be a vote on the other one anytime in the near future.

I'll also say that it's hypocritical for Biden to complain about Obama missing votes, when he's missed the most votes of any Democratic candidate. Is he going to now explain why he missed all those votes? There were some big ones in there as well like the Alberto Gonzales vote.

[MADem]

15. Your link failed, so we are unable to see the context. But Biden isn't lying.

Look, the Majority Leader knows what's coming to the Floor. He's the one who makes that happen. He tells his caucus what's coming up, and when.

So to suggest that Obama didn't know is just silly. Don't go there. Remember, WE have the Senate now, WE set the agenda, to include when votes take place--no more of those GOP midnight votes anymore.

[Dawgs]

18. When the fuck did we start taking quotes from other candidates as proof?

Your explanation is pathetic. Are you in the Senate? Has Harry Reid denied it?

This whole thread is pathetic. I'm done with it.

[MADem]

20. Well, your dramatic FUCK notwithstanding, you're just uneducated as to how the Senate works.

When a vote comes up, the Majority Leader lets his caucus know. It goes on the schedule.

My explanation isn't pathetic (FWIW, I'm very familiar with the Senate--I used to spend a lot of time on the Hill working with both chambers in my old job). Your UNDERSTANDING is a bit pathetic, though. And your fast retreat from this discussion because you can't back up your gripe is, too.

See ya! I don't buy the "high dudgeon" but thanks for playing, anyway.

[Dawgs]

12. So your "proof" is what another candidate said?

This is getting pathetic.

[ncabot22]

14. Getting pathetic?

Oh, it passed pathetic a long time ago and is venturing into bullshit territory. Unbelievable, isn't it?

[nevergiveup]

19. Obama was dumb

for not being there to vote but Hillary was equally dumb in voting for the resolution. I think Obama and Hillary supporters also look dumb trying to defend their respective candidates on this one. I support Obama and believe this to be his biggest error of the campaign.

[MADem]

21. See, I don't think he WAS dumb. He didn't want to vote yes, but he didn't DARE vote no.

Just IN CASE Iran goes koo-koo and explodes a suitcase bomb in Times Square.

We know it probably would never happen, but just...in...case...! He would never live it down, it would be a career-ender in the right circumstance. He's not gonna risk being a Neville Chamberlain, even though that's terribly unlikely. Ya gotta plan for the worst case scenario.

It's just POLITICS. It's silly to get hypersensitive about it, no matter which candidate you support.

Hell, I'm undecided, and I can see why he did what he did, and I can also see that he should probably be a bit judiciious when he points out that he didn't vote for the resolution. I can also see why Clinton voted for it. Just go to the bases, and you see why.

It's funny how pissed off people get at silly shit. There's really not all that much daylight between Obama and Clinton. They could easily share a ticket, and maybe they will. That'll make some heads explode around here.

[illinoisprogressive]

24. Herman, the facts are there. I can't help it if you don't like the truth.

[AtomicKitten]

25. me thinks the brown noses want to be VP

Reid's comment has been posted a gazillion times stating he was tabling this vote. That's a fact. And considering Obama is 87th in pecking order in the Senate, it cannot come as a huge surprise that there is some brown-nosing going on by the other candidates who are hoping to be visible for the VP slot if HRC gets the nod.

In the end, this is bait and switch by some spinning their wheels: "Pay no attention to the vote by Hillary for more war, and look at the kid with the funny name who had the audacity to disagree with her."

Yeah, we get it.

[zulchzulu]

26. Obama has large events with people who want to see him. Biden...not so much...

Biden says that Obama knew the vote was coming up and didn't vote. It was a day late.

If Biden wants to get in a pissing contest about recent missed votes or perhaps votes where he was there to vote to authorize the Iraq War, we can go there.

I hear Greenville Market has a sale on sandbags, Joe. You might want to stock up.

[Debi]

27. I wonder if Biden was asked about this and was just responding

rather than calling Obama out? The story doesn't really shed light on how the quote came about.

[rucky]

28. Brilliant deflection!

a thread about Kyl-Lieberman without a single mention of Clinton's vote!

seriously. brilliant. stick Biden on a hook and throw him in the water. All the sudden the attention is no longer on the gal who voted yes, or the guy who didn't vote, but the guy who did the right thing.

This is why we look at candidates' achievements, not their intentions.

[madrchsod]

29. no democrat should have voted for this resolution

to give cheney/bush the excuse to blow the crap out of iran. the democrats fell into the well they should have seen. if the democrat party really wanted to show that it`s bush`s war they would`t have shown up like obama did..but no, they dug themselves deeper in the well...

[Clintonista2]

30. As an Obama poster pointed out, Harry Reid hates Obama so there's a conspiracy against him

In the Democratic party :eyes:

[Evergreen Emerald]

32. Yes he lied...and showed his lack of leadership in the process.

His inexperience is showing again. Why would he condemn her for a vote that he did not even think was important enough to be present for the vote?

If this was such an important vote--on whether or not to go to war with Iran--why did he sit silent? Not much of a leader that.

his glass house was shattered.