WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE DEM PARTY??????????

[Michigander4Dean]

The Michigan primary mess, a Congress that can't get the fuck off its ass, FISA capitulation, the possibility of HILLARY getting the nom?

We suck.

[wyldwolf]

1. Quick answer

Look in the mirror

[Sequoia]

2. Mirror

[stimbox]

5. And you'll see the DLC.

That is why the Democrats are sucking.

[wyldwolf]

11. so the OP is DLC?

Sometimes folks are so desperate to be clever they make no sense.

[robinlynne]

14. No. You're wrong. the problem is the DLC, not us.

[wyldwolf]

26. so that's what the OP sees in the mirror?

:shrug:

[stimbox]

31. it's what you will see when you look in the mirror.

:think:

[wyldwolf]

37. but we're talking about the OP looking in the mirror

[stimbox]

49. Project much?

[wyldwolf]

53. misdefine words much?

[stimbox]

61. Triangulate much?

[robinlynne]

32. You're just soo funny, but we have a country going under here.

[wyldwolf]

38. It takes a Clinton to clean up after a Bush

[John Q. Citizen]

45. He took care of the silver with NAFTA & let all the traitors from Iran Contra walk by sweeping

all the dirt under the rug.Thanks a lot.It's so hard to find good domestic help.

It looks like ground hog day.

[wyldwolf]

52. says who?

[John Q. Citizen]

59. Says everyone, even BC himself, except for the right wing who are glad that he passed NAFTA

and are glad that he decided not to pursue Iran Contra.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0511-29.htm

My book, Secrecy & Privilege, opens with a scene in spring 1994 when a guest at a White House social event asks Bill Clinton why his administration didn’t pursue unresolved scandals from the Reagan-Bush era, such as the Iraqgate secret support for Saddam Hussein’s government and clandestine arms shipments to Iran.

Clinton responds to the questions from the guest, documentary filmmaker Stuart Sender, by saying, in effect, that those historical questions had to take a back seat to Clinton’s domestic agenda and his desire for greater bipartisanship with the Republicans.

Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships.”

Clinton’s relatively low regard for the value of truth and accountability is relevant again today because other centrist Democrats are urging their party to give George W. Bush’s administration a similar pass if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress.

Here's what Bill Clinton said himself in his book. Now perhaps you think Bill is lying, but that's another matter. From the same article...

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided,” Clinton explained in his 2004 memoir, My Life. “President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the (Iran-Contra) matter between him and his conscience.”

Your assertion that it takes a Clinton to clean up after a bush is only relevant if by "clean up" you mean clean up the evidence and bury it. I would say that it takes a Clinton to insure that we get another bush. Read the whole article and tell me why you agree or don't agree. Thanks.

[Armstead]

65. Not when a previous Clinton helped create the mess

Bush was just a symptom. He inherited the mess ctreated by Clinton and the DLC.

Do you really think that things like the bursting of the 90's bubble had anything to do with GW Bush?

Bush may have accelerated the disaster and helped to bring it out in the open. But it was Clinton who helped put the foxes in charge of the henhouse and set the stage for the disasters of the last seven years.

[Lerkfish]

42. methinks you project too much

"Sometimes folks are so desperate to be clever they make no sense"

oh, the irony.

[Hieronymus]

54. DLC folks, who of course want Hillary, are incredibly cruel in ..

their criticism of John Edwards. They're making many of the same arguments that we hear from the GOP. It's really sad to see.

[rucky]

39. What's that on your shoulder? n/t

[durrrty libby]

3. Hillary getting the nom is fabulous."We suck." Speak for yourself please

[regnaD kciN]

6. "Fabulous"...???

Only if we want four-to-eight years of the DLC back in the saddle. :puke:

[petgoat]

25. As the Senator from Ground Zero, Hillary had the clout to exercise some leadership

and suggest that people just might want to read the USAPatriot
Act before voting on it.

She didn't. She failed. And she better be good and sorry about
that before I'll forgive her.

[Froward69]

47. Here Here!!!

[BootinUp]

4. I think you kind of set yourself up there n/t

[Cha]

7. Don't worry about the

"possibility" of hillary getting the nom..just keep working to make sure she doesn't like some of the rest of us are.

Thanks for being a Michigander for Dean :)

[Perry Logan]

8. Further proof that Dems have a massive self-esteem problem.

Especially since the OP's premise is 180 degrees wrong.

If Congress were sitting on its butt, it wouldn't have broken the historical record for highest number of roll-call votes in U.S. history.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/09/roll-call-record/

If Congress were sitting on its butt, or caving in to the administration, it would not have scored the highest Democratic unity score in 51 years.
http://public.cq.com/docs/cqt/news110-000002576765.html

I think the problem is the media. It is designed to demoralize and weaken the left. This thread proves its effectiveness.

[BootinUp]

10. Thats some good info Perry. n/t

[robinlynne]

16. So, you're happy with the way our country is going? You're proud?

[choie]

23. who the hell

gives a crap about party unity if they are not doing what we put them in congress to do???

[AZ Criminal JD]

27. Nice statistics

But could you tell me what was accomplished?

[tex-wyo-dem]

43. good post! You are absolutely spot on about one thing...

The media is a huge problem for the left. I don't think I'm breaking any new ground on DU in saying the message is being controlled, and it ain't our side that's at the helm.

[Bitwit1234]

9. There's too much bickering because a certain candidate

is falling behind. His supporters are messing their pants. That's what's wrong.

[iconocrastic]

12. Not just the primary, the whole state is mess.

We need to do better, people.

[illinoisprogressive]

13. We lost our Identity and our spine. the DLC will control the party and then we fall apart

[calteacherguy]

15. It would be wonderful if Hillary gets the nomination! What's wrong with that? nt

[MannyGoldstein]

40. Someone To The *Left* Of Eisenhower Would Be Far Better nt

[Progressive Friend]

17. The DLC is the problem

[HughMoran]

22. It's the answer for all are woes!

Blame the DLC!

[leftchick]

18. DLC/AIPAC/Coporate Control

that is the problem

[stimbox]

33. all of the above.

are represented on this thread.

[HughMoran]

19. Your "concern" has been duly noted

Only the Congress issue strikes me as a real issue. The others are personal preference and I am not happy that you are lumping them together as if we all agree that they are real and/or bad issues.

[superkia]

20. It will suck but when the Repubs beat Clinton, just know that you tried.

The people that support her will be at fault and will have to live with it, keep fighting for a better choice and maybe the country will see better days. If the constitution and elections still exist, maybe then those same people will realize that sometimes its better to have common sense than intelligence and we all will see through the political bullshit that is ruining our country and elect someone that speaks for the people and not the corporations and wealthy. Until then rant all you like.

[Yael]

44. Preach it

:applause:

[Perry Logan]

56. You've got all the fighting spirit of a dead dog.

[MannyGoldstein]

21. What's Wrong With Wars Of Aggression, Raping The Middle Class, And Shredding The Constitution?

Some people are so picky.

[Clanfear]

24. Maybe, just maybe

It is not the Democratic party that is fucked up.

[ozone_man]

28. The DLC.

The Clinton's DLC. The populist vision and principles of the Democratic Party were compromised in favor of a corporate vision less distinguishable from the Republican Party. A merging of the two parties.

[Zandor]

29. Chicken Little Syndrome

DUers often end up spinng against the Democratic party.

[robinlynne]

30. who made illegal wiretapping and spying legal 2 months ago?

[Zandor]

34. Here's one now

Democrats fight for a better balance between security and civil liberties.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3023155&mesg_id=3023439

[bonito]

46. Democratic liquidation Council

And everybody fucken knows, yet they keep on.

[robinlynne]

69. bonito. (which in portugese means good-looking, well done.)

[bonito]

72. Well

:blush: Thanks I'll take this personally, if you don't mind.:)

[Synnical]

35. Those in power hate change

And that includes the Dems in charge of the $$$$

[slackmaster]

36. At least we suck less

:D

[mtnsnake]

41. No. The real reason "we suck" is because we don't have the guts to impeach

If only they all had the guts and conscience of Dennis Kucinich.

[daninthemoon]

48. I guess if the country wanted that they would have elected a

democratic majority in both house. Otherwise, how would our reps know we wanted them to fire bush/cheney and end the war? If we had just somehow elected a majority.:banghead: :hurts: :mad:

[Perry Logan]

57. Maybe you suck, but I don't. We don't have the votes to impeach. We've gone over this many times.

[mtnsnake]

60. You exhibit a grade-A loser mentality. nt

[ClassWarrior]

50. Too many self-flagellating whiners.

NGU.

[autorank]

51. Tow things at least...

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0709/S00549.htm

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0710/S00107.htm

[fightindonkey]

55. I Want Hillary

Guess they are doing something.

[Perry Logan]

58. The most craven whiners at DU are the same ones accusing the Dems in Congress of being cowards.

These people are obviously scared shitless of Republicans. That's probably why they like to imagine the Democrats in Congress are terrified. They're simply projecting their own fear.

[Dr Fate]

70. Sorry, but DUers are not scared of ending the war or talking about impeaching Bush.

n/t

[Vidar]

62. I agree.

[MGKrebs]

63. Sometimes we expect to much of our representatives.

When WE build a constituency that will elect more progressive candidates, we will get more progressive representation. Expecting candidates to lead the electorate down a dramatically different path from the one (they perceive) their constituency occupies is a recipe for disappointment.

Is your Rep a Dem? Your state legislature? If not, you know what you need to do.

[Romulox]

64. The problem is that their "constituencies" change depending on who is the highest bidder

We let corporations buy our representatives votes, then we flagellate ourselves when these bought-off shills vote for corporate interests and endless war.

In a sense, we do deserve this level of "leadership", but only because we are too stupid to understand that money buys votes. :eyes:

[MGKrebs]

67. Even more of a reason to support DFA and/or

Progressive Majority.

I say, join the party and BE the difference, or help those who are trying to make a difference. For now, it is what it is. I got no problem with complaining, or pressure, or resistance, but it will never be enough.

[rasputin1952]

66. I have seen many responses in this thread, covering

various items, some are valid, some are the usual..."OMG, we're sinking because of__________", stuff.

I think that since WE are the Democratic Party, we hold some blame in what has happened. Look at this division and disparity here on DU, then multiply that by 100, and you get an idea just how congresscritters have no idea just where the D party should head.

We call for leadership, but when someone introduces a Bill, there are 500 different directions that D's go in. People discuss things that have nothing to do with them, and will never affect them, but they have to jump into the fray and dirty up the water. Rather than get a consensus on the bigger items that DO affect us all, say the war in in Iraq, we come off like some huge group of shrieking yahoos when things don't go according to some self-imposed "timetable". Suddenly, people dig in their heels and start calling D's all kinds of names, disparaging them in any way they can, because "I didn't get my way". When the info these people get is so damned conflicting, and worse yet, accusatory, how do you expect people to react?

How many people here, honestly, read at least some of the Bills congress is introducing? I am willing to bet the percentage is pretty low.

How many people here actually write/e-mail their congresscritters with something positive for what they might have done or introduced that is actually beneficial to the country? Once again, I'd say the percentage is pretty low.

I write to my Senators and Rep quite often. I'm honest with my concerns and when I write in the negative, (which I always do to Fortenberry(R) 1st District NE), I remain on topic, explain my reasoning and don't use verbiage like, "you suck", "wtf is the matter with you", and "are you really that stupid"...(once again, the exception is Fortenberry).

I have seen things like this all over DU, how does one expect to get things done when all one does is attack and divide?

The whole point is, WE are the Democratic Party. Yes, we do run around like cats on fire; yes, we do have differing opinions, yes we do have every right, and indeed the obligation, to question things that are done. But we also have the obligation to take matters to our elected officials. It is HOW we bring these things up and discuss them that matters. I know of no person that enjoys being batted around, discussion beats argument every time.

Let us set our priorities, let us ensure the Congress knows where we stand, but let's do it without the name calling, the attacking at every step, the constant bickering.

We can make a huge difference if we come together on issues, but as long as the divisive faction continues to screech rather than talk, we will be in state of paralysis.

Well, that's my 2 cents...:)

edit for typo.

[MGKrebs]

68. I'm in Georgia, where the Dem Party is probably in as bad shape

as anywhere in the country. Due to the recent switch of the South from automatic Dem to automatic Repub, we have virtually no grassroots, no money, leadership that is sailing into the wind every moment, and many elected officials who do not participate in the Party much, if at all. But what am I supposed to do, wait until someone ELSE fixes the Party and then jump in?

[Honeycombe8]

71. No argument here. nt

[rhett o rick]

73. The Democratic Party is not in touch with it's base. 70% want impeachment

but the "Party" say f*** you. The Democrats were given majorities in both the House and Senate and what happened? The lowest ratings for Congress in history. The Democrats in Congress are part of the rich/corporatist society. It will take a third party or revolution.
You choose.