I consider the antiwar protests and sit ins a waste of time.

[liberaldemocrat7]

I consider the antiwar protests and sit ins a waste of time
when hundreds of thousands of antiwar Democrats should call GOP and war contractor General Electric at 203 373 2211 and tell the person in public relations that we will not buy any GE products until Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of GE can convince Bush to end the war and then resign with Cheney.

You have to hit the friends of the GOP in their wallet.

Everything else appears a waste in my view.

[BeFree]

1. Yep

I avoid GE products. I always buy the other guy's stuff. Its the right thing to do.

[liberaldemocrat7]

2. How many times have I seen or heard remarks like yours

but the person has never called GE and demanded that they convince George W Bush to end the war!

Make a phone call!

[redqueen]

3. For reference:

Brands and Affiliates

Brands: 13th Street, Bravo, CNBC, CNBC Asia, CNBC Europe, CNBC World, Focus Features, GE, GE Monogram, GE Profile, MSNBC (no more Keith?!), mun2, NBC, NBC News, NBC Sports, Paxson, SciFi Channel, ShopNBC, Studio Universal, Telemundo, TRIO, Universal Channel, Universal HD, Universal Parks & Resorts, Universal Pictures, Universal Studio Home Video, USA Network

Affiliates:
- GE Commercial Finance
- GE Consumer Finance
- GE Health Care
- GE Industrial
- GE Infrastructure
- NBC Universal


Competitors
- Acer
- AOL
- Apple
- Dell
- Disney
- Fox Entertainment
- Gateway
- Hewlett-Packard (HP)
- IBM
- Microsoft
- Sanyo
- Sears, Roebuck & Co.
- Sony Corp.
- Time Warner Inc.
- Toshiba Corp.
- Vivendi Universal S.A.


source: http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/rs/profile.cfm?id=231

[kdmorris]

14. So...

AOL, Dell, Disney, FOX, HP.. we should go buy THEIR stuff??

GAH, hell, no.

You cannot boycott a company with so many diversified subsidiaries and make it work. We would also have to boycott EVERY advertiser that shows ads on any of the stations shown above. Otherwise, we will all stop buying GE light bulbs and they will continue to get rich by selling ad space on those stations.

[redqueen]

16. That's what I'm wondering.

When the culprit is a megacorporation, is a boycott a near impossibility/waste of time?

[kdmorris]

18. Yeah, I think it is

I wish it wasn't, but I if we all call GE and tell them we are going to boycott "them", they will just laugh about it at the next board meeting, while pocketing their ill gotten gains.

[ShortnFiery]

4. No, I disagree. At the very least it is a way to network and make plans to organize

in a more political, grass roots manner.

Further, until we lost our American free press we would be able to show other Americans that all is "not as it seems" with the happy camper M$M Corporations' sole solution is: GO SHOPPING. :crazy:

Finally, look at how peeved her highness in the thousand dollar pants suit, one each, Madame Pelosi is behaving? We are successful at *afflicting the comfortable.* Making our complacent status quo politicians NERVOUS and UNCOMFORTABLE is, at least a start ... "No, NANCY! - all is not well in paradise." :grr:

[gratuitous]

5. Then, may I respectfully suggest . . .

Do what you think is effective, but if other people are doing what they think is effective, at the very least stay out of their way. And in the spirit of the common cause, refrain from belittling their efforts, but that may be too much to ask.

[liberaldemocrat7]

7. have you ended the war?

looking around surveying the area I say no you haven't ended the war.

Ok, you can watch Keith

When I say not buy GE products I mean not buying:

Lightbulbs

TVs
Radios
stereo equipment
telephones
refrigerators
ovens
stoves
ranges
dishwashers
electrical appliances


Don't give me the large companies list. Merely stop buying the above will do and by all means watch Keith.

[ShortnFiery]

10. It's all part of the equation and should not be divorced from our multifaceted effort.

I know some of you folks think it "uncouth" for us little people to take our personal time to contact our representatives or march on D.C.

However, dammit, don't disrespect people who are on your side and doing what they PERSONALLY can to change things.

There's no SIMPLE FIXES to end this unholy war, but don't disrespect others who don't have the means to throw in big bucks OR are not the political beasties that some of us are.

I salute anyone who takes the time to contact their representative. That's the way it is supposed to work ... and WORKING TOGETHER ... refraining from disrespect of facets that don't jibe with your personality, is what's needed to pull together instead of rend apart. :thumbsdown:

[liberaldemocrat7]

19. Not a question about uncouth.

I find calling an entrenched insulated Republican congressman a waste of time.

I find a rally appears a waste of time.

But if hundreds of thousands of people call GE telling them that they will lose their business until the war ends, that I do not consider a waste of time because money translates into power, and by calling GE and telling them they will lose a lot of money, everyone who calls exercises power to get the war to end.

[gratuitous]

24. Well . . .

Whatever you've done hasn't ended the war, either, Skeezix.

But back to the respectful part of this equation: I don't think any one activity is going to stop the war, but everyone should do what they can or what they think best. If you don't think marches and protests do any good, then by all means, don't march and don't protest. I'm just asking you to stay out of the way (at least) and don't denigrate those who do (if at all possible). Those of us in the streets and on the corners are getting enough static from the self-styled ultra-patriots as well as law enforcement folks; additional catcalls from our putative allies is hardly necessary.

[Virginia Dare]

6. I agree with you, about the only power we hold right now..

is the power of the purse strings. The media can spin everything else now to their heart's content. This war won't end until Wall Street says it does.

[liberaldemocrat7]

8. So Virginia Dare, will you make the phone call and get everyone you can to make the phone call?

I hope so. Spread the message around this country.

[ShortnFiery]

9. OK, but if some of us "little people" wish to continue to protest, we should not be arrested.

There's no reason to STOP just because some people think protesting is unrefined and/or not financially savvy. :eyes:

It may not stop these mega-corporations but I believe it makes them NERVOUS. That, in and of itself, is reason to keep the pressure up by calling, emailing and protesting. :shrug:

[liberaldemocrat7]

11. of course not arrested. Geeesh.

I just said the rallies and the protests appear a waste of time.

If you want to network at least tell everyone to call GE and make the demands at your gatherings.

Calling GE and telling them you will boycott them by the hundreds of thousands will get the war to end.

[ShortnFiery]

12. We all have "our way" ... if we have the same goal and I don't step on your toes,

I think it, to say the least, impolite for you to disrespect my desire to protest. You go on in "your way" and recruit me to assist (canvassing, etc.). However, I think it crosses into what many call ELITIST to evaluate what others choose to do for the SAME CAUSE - even if it is not as effective as your strategy.

As my belated father would say: "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Translation: If someone is gifting you something, don't question their intentions or the QUALITY of the gift. (You can estimate a horse's age by assessing at the wear and tear on it's teeth)

Allow us "little people" who believe that *afflicting the comfortable* through protesting is a valuable part of the anti-war effort. Allow us to continue without your negative evaluations?

[liberaldemocrat7]

13. You're not afflicting the comfortable.

CALLING and Boycotting GOP contributors would afflict the comfortable.

I don't consider it elitist to point out that rallies and protests have not ended the war in 5 YEARS.

[wtmusic]

15. patience

It was public opinion that ended Vietnam but it took longer than 5 years. And protests undoubtedly raised public awareness.

So it may not accomplish much but it accomplishes something. And if you've already phoned the GOP contributors, it accomplishes more than staying home and sitting on your ass, no?

[martymar64]

29. WE the people have the power of secession or revolution

Get us all pissed off enough, we may just march on Washington with guns instead of picket signs.

Not advocating violence, but I do recall a flag that said . . .

DON'T TREAD ON ME

[kdmorris]

17. I think that trying to get people to stop protesting is naive and a waste of time

Look at Redqueen's list of GE affiliates, etc. It's not just about not buying light bulbs. And you cannot effectively boycott a company with so many diversified interests. They are getting BILLIONS of dollars in advertising money and war profiteering. Probably tens of billions. Calling them and telling them that we are going to boycott them is pretty much like an amusing Wednesday for them. They will NOT care and they will NOT stop doing it your way.

You want to end the war? Write your fucking Congress Critters and Senators and threaten THEM with losing their jobs. Force them to live up to the promises they made in 2006. Democrat or Republican... force THEM to do their jobs. Because mega-corporations like GE don't give a shit if you don't buy light bulbs. You will have to boycott ALL of GE and that's pretty hard when they are getting so much money from the war and advertising.

[liberaldemocrat7]

20. Well that appears your opinion. 20,000 women called Verizon a week ago

and forced Verizon to stop censoring text messages under threat of losing 20,000 women's business in 2 HOURS.

Before you tell me there appears no similarity I say Bunk.

No company wants a hundred thousand people calling them to tell them they won't buy their electrical products and appliances or tvs, etc.

[kdmorris]

21. You say bunk before I even get a chance to say anything?

That's highly immature and designed to allow YOU to state your opinion while no one else gets to state theirs. Guess that's what you want though, isn't it? You are always right and everyone else is wrong? Makes it easier to have a conversation when you are the only one that gets to say anything, eh?

There IS a difference and if you had read my previous post you would know the difference. It worked for Verizon because Verizon doesn't own tons of other stuff that has nothing to do with telecommunications. It also won't COST them anything to stop censoring the messages. It would not have worked if Verizon also owned several other types of companies that made billions of dollars, or if they were asked to do something that would hurt them financially, like, say, stop giving user information to the government. There are things that can be affected by boycotts and there are things that cannot be effected by boycotts.

Ending this war... can't be effected by boycotting mega corporations that own half the world and are getting billions of dollars from war profiteering. They will not call for Bush's resignation NOR will they call for the end of the war. Because they make more money on the war and advertising than you can possibly EVER boycott.

[liberaldemocrat7]

22. Well I disagree with you.

The rallies and the protests have not ended this war in 5 years.

When you refuse to hit GOP contributors in the wallet you abdicate power.

[kdmorris]

23. That's fine

You don't HAVE to agree with me. I disagree with you, as well.

I think the only way to get out of this war is to get the politicians to start doing their job. I do boycott GOP contributors as much as I am able. It's hard to find out who owns what sometimes. But I disagree with you that boycotting GE will do any good. They don't care. As I've stated, they are making more money than we can possibly every take away from them in a boycott.

There's no fucking point, usually, for me to write a thing to Senator Mel Martinez. He's a Bushie through and through. But I keep doing it. When you refuse to engage your elected politicians, you abdicate power.

[liberaldemocrat7]

26. How many times have I seen or heard remarks like yours

How many times have I seen or heard remarks like yours that you say you boycott GOP contributors but you have never called GE and demanded that they convince George W Bush to end the war!

[kdmorris]

27. I don't know... how many?

Seems like you have a one track mind. You have no fucking clue what I have or haven't done nor when.

I will not call GE. It is pointless. If you want to end the war, call the people that allowed the war to happen, not the people who are getting rich from it. It will not end the war.

How many times have I seen or heard remarks like yours that you say you want to end the war but won't call your Senator or Congressperson and DEMAND that they stop funding the war? Maybe if you spent more of your energies taking on the people who keep PAYING GE, you could stop the war.

[liberaldemocrat7]

28. Despite the millions of people who have called their senators and representatives

demanding to the end of the war in 5 years it has not happened. Despite the rallies, protests, sit ins the war has not happened in 5 years and you criticize me for asking people to call

a war contractor and a gop contributor to threaten a boycott of them.

You make me laugh.

5 years and people like you have not moved the RepubliKLAN party to end this war and you won't test my plan. ok fine. Then live with this fucking war because you appear powerless to stop it with what you have done so far.

[kdmorris]

32. Tells you something, eh?

Maybe we ARE powerless to stop the war. Maybe nothing will work.

All I'm saying is that you way won't work either. I criticized your wording. I wouldn't have said shit if you hadn't stated that you think it's a waste of time. You want to put out a thread that says "CALL GE.. hit them where it hurts", without trashing good people who are at least TRYING to end this war... go for it. I would still think it wouldn't work, but I wouldn't SAY anything about it. At least then, you would be TRYING.

But you didn't post something in the spirit of trying to help. You posted it in the spirit of making others feel bad for what they HAVE been doing. Since you keep getting reactions like this, maybe you should look at WHY people respond to you like that.

I make you laugh? Well, I guess that's good thing. Mutual amusement for the DU board. Because, I think you are hilarious.

[liberaldemocrat7]

30. People pay GE by purchasing their products!!!

.

[kdmorris]

31. People pay GE MORE by paying taxes

And having satellite/cable TV.

THAT is their largest source of income.

[EstimatedProphet]

25. So your solution to quit wasting hours is to start wasting days?

General Electric is never going to listen to an insistence that they lose 90% of their funding base in order to satisfy 10% of their funding base.

[Echo In Light]

33. Civil disobedience is not a "waste of time."

In a recent interview with Amy Goodman, Ralph Nader suggested that people begin staging mass protests at the mainline media centers, surround their buildings, and then see if it even gets any coverage! Spot on...

[liberaldemocrat7]

34. Well if people want to surround media buildings it might work

but people might get arrested. I don't advocate it.

In my view the key to getting at an insulated congressional Republican delegation will come from some type of shutting down of the commerce that goes on in America related to the Republican party.

If it comes from surrounding the Media buildings day after day ( which I don't recommend because people will get arrested ) then go for it.

My method involves CALLING GE and demanding their CEO get Bush to end the war and resign with Cheney and until then, shutting their economic ties with GE by not buying any electrical product with a GE LOGO ON IT.

I don't care about the subsidiaries but rather by not buying any product with a GE logo on it.

[Stuckinthebush]

35. You may be correct

Protests used to be effective because politicians feared the people. If you get a mass of people screaming about an issue, a politician would listen because it would have an effect on his or her ratings and, therefore, job.

That concern has disappeared in modern politics. The politicians need the corporations not the people. They fear the lobby not the voters. George Bush doesn't give a damn what you or I think. His party doesn't give a damn what we think. The Dems are starting to get the picture and not give a damn what we think. As long as they can appeal to fear and use lies effectively (not to mention election rigging), then they will keep their jobs.

So your point is well taken. Protests don't work. Hit them where it hurts - their wallets. GE doesn't give a shit who is in office as long as GE is well taken care of. GE is not well taken care of when GE makes less money. Make GE feel the pain and then the politicians feel the pain. Of course, this only works if you can mobilize enough people to hit GE and the other big players where it hurts.

Sadly, we have lost a lot of power as "The People". Frankly, this experiment in Democracy died and we are just playing with a ghost.