So much for the pledge, Barack Obama was at a fundraiser in FL just last week.

[rinsd]

See I've been told that Obama has integrity because he has gone the extra mile to honor the early state pledge.

I've been told that the pledge means more than simple refraining from campaigning or spending money.

That there is a spirit behind it that one can only live up to by removing one's name from the ballot.

Now I am well aware that the pledge allows for fundraising but does it follow the spirit of the pledge. Or better yet does it follow the pledge in the minds of some Obama supporters. Ya know the ones attacking Hillary for not living up to part of pledge that does not exist.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/10174761.html

The Nevada Democratic Party says it is up to voters to decide whether presidential candidate Barack Obama broke his promise not to campaign in Florida when he talked to reporters in Tampa on Sunday.

"We are busy preparing for our caucus, and we will not be policing the pledge," party Deputy Executive Director Kirsten Searer said Monday.

At issue was a report that, leaving a fundraising event at the home of a supporter in the Florida city, the U.S. senator from Illinois stopped to take questions from reporters waiting outside.

Obama and the rest of the major Democratic presidential candidates in August pledged not to campaign in Florida.

[saracat]

1. What is the problem if they allow for fundraising? Perhaps he shouldn't have talked to reporters

but other than that what is the gripe? He wasn't "campaigning". Hillary has had Florida fundraisers as well.

[SaveElmer]

2. It shows his withdrawl from the Michigan ballot was a campaign tactic...

Having nothing to do with respecting the four state pledge...

Neither fundraising or appearing on the ballot in MI and FL violated the pledge...both were done for tactical reasons, and have nothing to do with respect for the special place of Iowa and New Hampshire...

[rinsd]

4. Bingo!

[rinsd]

3. I have been told repeatedly that Hillary is breaking the pledge.

Because she did not remove her name from the MI ballot.

The reason being the pledge is about more than just campaigning.

Again I know fundraising is exempt from the actual pledge.

Not the made up pledge in some supporters minds.

[saracat]

Why isn't she removing her name from the Michigan ballot? Not being snarky, I just don't understand

the differnce between Michigan and Florida. Aren't both rebelling against the DNC? I just don't understand and how would either staying or withdrawing be more of a tactic for any candidate?

[rinsd]

12. You can't remove your name from FL's ballot without dropping out of the race entirely.

But one can remove one's name from the MI ballot and still run.

"I just don't understand and how would either staying or withdrawing be more of a tactic for any candidate?"

Basically Richardson kicked this off by having his name removed then nearly everyone else jumped on it a day later.

[saracat]

16. I think I understand that but I do not get how either action benefits any candidate!

[SaveElmer]

19. Obama et al...

Are trying to boost support with Iowa Democrats...hoping that by going the extra mile to insure Iow's place will give them a boost...

Hillary and Dodd have apparently made the judgment that this will not resonate in Iowa, certainly not so that it is worth alienating Michigan Democrats...

[rinsd]

22. I'm not sure either.

I suppose its a calculation that Iowa voters would be displeased by someone remaining on the MI ballot given that the MI primary will occur around the same time.

But I think you would have to be blatantly campaigning to really raise ire.

[SaveElmer]

23. I agree...

But also by removing themselves from the Michigan ballot, they can discount the Hillary victory there...which she was headed for anyway...

I don't think it is worth alienating Michigan Democrats...as I am willing to bet that some kind of compromise will be made before the convention seating their delegates...who will surely not go to those who decided to not place their names on the ballot...

[saracat]

27. Well, I think this is a kerfuffle about nothing on all sides but what do I know?

[SaveElmer]

13. It might be...

It's just that we are hearing claims from some (not all ) Obama supporters defending Obama as just upholding the spirit of the pledge, and criticizing Dodd and most especially Hillary...

[Capn Sunshine]

7. so you twist some non- event into...

never mind.

It's not like I'll change your mind.
I am rather amused by all the bullshit flying around lately
I'm so glad you guys are basically harmless.

[rinsd]

17. What do you need to change my mind about?

Fundraising is permitted under the pledge.

Nowhere in the pledge does it say remove thyself from the ballot.

So just as attacking one for fundraising when the pledges allows it would be silly so is it silly to attack someone because they didn't remove their name from a ballot.

Unless we're all actually serious about primacy of the 1st 4 in which case they shouldn't even be fundraising.

[wndycty]

5. is this post to distract from the fact Hillary

Stayed on the ballot in Michigan? Just remember the very standards you hold one candidate to can bite your candidate in the ass.

[SaveElmer]

8. Funny...Obama is the inconsistent on ehere...

Fundraising in Florida while "nobly" removing his name from the Michigan ballot...

It's a campaign tactic on his part...nothing more...

[rinsd]

10. To quote Elmer.....

"Neither fundraising or appearing on the ballot in MI and FL violated the pledge...both were done for tactical reasons, and have nothing to do with respect for the special place of Iowa and New Hampshire..."

"Just remember the very standards you hold one candidate to can bite your candidate in the ass"

Maybe you misunderstood or I wasn't clear. See the above line.

[illinoisprogressive]

6. You can be there for fundraising.

[SaveElmer]

9. And you can be on the ballot...

So criticism of Dodd and Hillary for remaining on the Florida ballot is unwarranted wouldn't you agree...?

[Clintonista2]

30. You can be on the ballot aswell

The point of the OP is, stop complaining about Hillary remaining on the ballot in that state when your candidate goes out and fundraises in that state. Neither breaks the pledge.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. BS. They've all agreed fundraising is okay (and all will raise funds, I'm sure)

[SaveElmer]

14. Then the wihdrawl from the ballot in Michigan is a campaign tactic...

Not some noble way to uphold the importance of the four states...wouldn't you agree...

Staying on the ballot no more violates the pledge than fundraising does...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. Agreed. Clinton is weighing the upside of a news cycle day noting a crushing win in the

Mich beauty contest vs. the downside of whatever Iowans might think. It's a trade-off.

And the "virtuous" ones taking their names off the ballot are setting up an excuse for what they knew would be a big loss in that beauty contest. They are certainly not honoring any 'principle'

It's all political maneuvering on every side.

[SaveElmer]

21. Yes it very well may be exactly that...

It's just that some Obama supporters are trying to spin it as another "noble" gesture on his part...we are pointing out the inconsistency in that belief...

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

25. I shouldn't have said BS. Something much milder was called for, but it's two letters... easy to type

The lofty Obama side of the kerfuffle is equally BS.

It's a silly story all around.

[rinsd]

15. Exactly.

Fundraising is not part of the pledge, neither is having one's name removed from the ballot.

[ripple]

18. Asking questions from reporters is not campaigning,

it is allowing for transparency. I can see how it could easily morph into a stump speech, but from what I understand, that is not what occurred in Florida.

Both candidates fund raised, Obama merely responded to a few peppered questions from the press. It's not like he called a press conference or made it a campaign event. Or has anything to hide from the press, for that matter. ;-)

[rinsd]

24. I know that ripple.

I wasn't crazy about the way the article framed it but I was just looking for something where Obama had fundraised in FL and that popped up.

Hillary has certainly done a few fundraisers in FL post-pledge.

This OP was in response to someone insisting that failure of Hillary to remove herself from the MI ballot was tantamount to breaking the pledge even though the pledge said no such thing.

[ripple]

29. Ok, gotcha.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree that Hillary has every right to leave her name on the ballot, unless there is some additional stipulation in the 'pledge' that has not come to light. If the DNC merely requested that candidates remove their names from the ballot, she certainly had the right to decline.

It will be interesting to see how any backlash in Iowa will weigh against how keeping her name on will benefit her in Michigan. As an Obama supporter, I'm obviously hoping that Iowa voters take her to task at the polls, but from what I can tell, it's anyone's guess as to how this thing will play out.

[wndycty]

26. just remembe the op is not looking for an honest debate

The op is not even trying to be remotely objective.

[rinsd]

28. Yes, honest debate.

Perhaps you can show me where that is on DU when it comes to candidates.

I've seen glimpses of it here and there in interactions with various candidate supporters but it still remains an ever elusive beast.

[Cameron27]

31. That's right rinsd,

there's nothing wrong with the OP considering what's being posted about Clinton on the same issue.

[Romulox]

32. H * Y * P * O * C * R * I * S * Y.

Barack Obama: Gimme your money and SHADDUP! :puke:

[Debi]

33. Cinton fundraising in Florida in September - Obama fundraising in Florida in September

Clinton http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/hillary-clinton/states/fl

Obama http://projects.washingtonpost.com/2008-presidential-candidates/tracker/candidates/barack-obama/states/fl/

You're story is a week old and has been gone over and over on this very forum (and actually the event that started the story is a month old). While Obama spoke to reporters (and then apologized for it when he realized it broke the pledge) Clinton held a campaign event with Senior Citizens (which very clearly broke the pledge) and her supporters defended it b/c it was a small and non-public event (the campaign never disclosed how 'small' the event was and who the event was 'closed' to.

Both candidates are walking a fine line with regard to the pledge - neither one is any more guilty than the other. Just depends on who posts the story.

[SaveElmer]

35. You've missed the point...

Some have been claiming Obama's withdrawal from the Michigan ballot was him just showing his commitment to the primacy of Iowa and New Hampshire...while it is clear of course, that it was simply a campaign tactic...as his fundraising in Florida demonstrates

[Debi]

36. Some might say that Clinton remaining on the ballot is a campaign tactic

as well (she'll get the 'win' and the unseatable delegates but appear that she understands poor Michigan's plight - which I guess is that they shouldn't have to obey the rules b/c they are Michigan...). All Michigan has to do is move it's primary back to Feb 5th or later and they get all their delegates and all the candidates back. (Otherwise stated - obey the rules).


I note that the pledge doesn't say candidates have to take their names off of the ballots of rule-breaking states - so Clinton is not breaking the letter of the pledge - if that's what this is all about. However, candidates standing up (together for the most part) for the DNC rules is healthy for the party. One or two candidates saying "screw the party, I'm in it for me" isn't.


As for the Obama/Clinton-Michigan/Florida-campaigning/fundraising feud, both campaigns are calculating and maneuvering. Anyone who thinks differently is a fool. Both campaigns did a disservice to the pledge on September 9th-10th in their own manner - Obama in talking w/reporters and Clinton in holding a campaign event. Neither campaign is better than the other on that.

[SaveElmer]

39. It might be...

But we are not the ones making claims of nobility on behalf of their candidate on this issue..(some) Obama supporters are...

[Debi]

40. And we both know that supporters of a candidate don't speak on behalf of the campaign

So everything written here that isn't in a press release or a news item quoting the campaign has to be taken w/a grain of salt and some humor. :hi:

[SaveElmer]

42. Well I believe that is who the post was directed at...nt

[Apollo11]

34. So he can go to Florida if he wears a disguise and ignores reporters?

This primary wars stuff is so crazy I can't believe it is happening in the 21st Century.

In a democracy it is wrong to exclude millions of voters from the primary process.

[Debi]

37. They weren't excluded. They're primary was set for Feb. 5th

They broke the rules and are only suffering the very clear consequences of doing so. In being punished for breaking the rules they are crying that they are being excluded. Bull. I can't believe that rule breakers expect preferential treatment to those states who have stayed w/in the rules.

[AtomicKitten]

38. your suggestion sort of puts this into perspective

[Catherine Vincent]

41. That's okay with me.

The guys needs to raise as much money as he can to top Senator Clinton.