Dontcha Just Love All The 'Unity Or Else' Threat Treads ???

[WillyT]

I mean, does anybody remember when candidates and campaigns asked for a person's support? Something like, "When you go into that booth on election day, I'm asking you to pull the lever, and vote for me."

Oh yeah, the candidates still do that. Just been witness to that for the past couple of months.

But here on DU...

My god, poor Sean states that he's chosen to go 3rd party for his first ever presidential vote in November, and you'd have thought he stuck Baby Jessica back down the drain pipe.

Sean lives in Utah folks. If they could grant him special dispensation so that he could vote straight Dem 100, or even 1,000 times in a row, it wouldn't make a damned bit of difference. But hell, half of DU is jumping up and down on Sean's 18 year old bones right now.

There are a lot of very disappointed people here at DU right now. Their guy, or gal, has dropped out of the race. They are crestfallen.

Almost all will get over it. But they don't need, nor want to hear, "Get over it!" Almost all will vote for the eventual Dem Nominee, but they don't need, nor want to be told, that that's what they're gonna do, by God!!! Or else!

Try a little sweetness and light people.

There are a couple of things that will bring everybody home in November. The candidate's message through speeches, town-hall meetings, interviews, etc. His behavior (no funny hats, or other hanky panky). And how he counters the Bush campaign offensive.

Or should that be the offensive Bush campaign, LOL!

And that is the second thing that will bring people home. What the Bush folks do in the months remaining, will probably be enough to bring just about everybody along in November. When Rove gets his machine into gear, and whips up the corporate media whores, we will be witness to some vast ugly truths, that can only be corrected by kicking this little dictator from office.

There's a reason you and I get to cast our votes in private. You and I will never know for sure what the other did in that little booth. And I can say anything I like here to please you, or to piss you off. But when it comes to my vote, my franchise, you still have to ask for it. Nicely. And I'll betcha anything, I'll do the right thing. I'll betcha almost everybody here will.

Peace!

:grouphug:

[MurikanDemocrat]

1. Not near as much as I hate the "vote my way or I'll go 3rd party" threads

[Pale Blue Dot]

2. I'm sorry. But if someone posts their opinion

then others have the right to disagree with and respond to that opinion. I see that working on DU both ways every day.

3. they're the same coin in a way

just opposite sides of it
action reaction
Newton's laws

(response to response 1, really ... I agree with original post)

[Sean Reynolds]

4. Thanks for that! :)

I don't mind people not liking my opinion. In fact I knew it'd be unpopular, but it's how I feel. I don't understand why people have to be so full of hate, but that is just me.

I take it all in jest knowing that they're just pissed at Bush. No one realizes I come from the state of Utah, a state that last voted Democratic in '64.

[Vladimir]

6. do what you gotta do comrade

Believe me, I and a millon or so others who marched in London against this war feel your pain mate. Just remember that whoever gets elected in November (and fingers crossed it ain't gonna be *), there will still be a hell of a lot of work to do for progressives in the USA.

V

[BurtWorm]

35. You said it!

:toast:

[WillyT]

7. Hey Dude, No Sweat Man !!!

It is YOUR vote. Not anyone else's.

You do as you see fit.

:hi:

[bushwakker]

13. Who do you support down ballot?

Surely your vote could help a Democrat in state/local elections?

[jazzsammich]

41. i for one...

...have pledged to myself to support the most progressive candidate in any election i come across. for kerry or edwards, i'll make an exception just to get b**h out. in ordinary circumstances, i'd be voting green.

--jim k.

[Deaner1971]

52. Confused

You have the symbol of a nation that invaded two peaceful nations, killed millions of its own citizens, sponsored totalitarian regimes all over the world, and crushed religious freedom in its own borders as your avatar and you are suprised by hateful people? Sorry, little confused by the hammer and sickle.

[Vladimir]

5. well said

I am all for realpolitik but after the last four years there is no way you can blame people for feeling disenfranchised and angry. I do think you are right though, come November, most people will do what needs to be done.

Having said that, I have found the level of emotional engagement with various candidates here over the last year quite surprising. Maybe that comes from living in Britain for a while...

[WillyT]

8. It's Been A Rough Four Years Man !!!

I think our emotional engagement to our candidates is directly proportional to how badly we want Chimpboy gone.

Hopefully there will be great joy come November!

Thanks V!!!

:hi:

[JVS]

9. Classic!

"he's chosen to go 3rd party for his first ever presidential vote in November, and you'd have thought he stuck Baby Jessica back down the drain pipe"

ROTFLMAO! Great mental image!

[Paulie]

12. I think I soiled myself....

OMG, that was so FUNNY!!!

Classic indeed. :yourock:

[WillyT]

14. Glad You Guys Liked It, LOL !!!

:silly:

[Fleshdancer]

10. I choose to insult those who don't care enough to vote

I firmly believe everyone has the right to vote how ever they want to but I don't understand those who don't bother to vote at all.

[SEAburb]

11. Sean is learning a life's lesson

It's up to him to either turn it into a positive or a negative.

[maxanne]

37. he learned a lesson

that's for sure.

[gate of the sun]

15. thanks for the post Willy T

though I see the cut throat response is still being favored. You know what really get's to me....a few months back when we used to poll for who people favored as the candidate....well John Kerry was I have to say very few people's favorite....very few supported him and that's the truth because of ABB and the fact that Kerry did well in the first primaries people suddenly became crazy for Kerry and now well everyone is supposed to just join the bandwagon.

Alot of people put their "hopes" into Dean I can relate because I put my "hope" into Dennis Kucinich as a candidate. I feel very sad for the Dean folks today. I can relate to how they feel.

Now everyone has put their hopes into Kerry a "hope" that he will win...but not necessarily a "hope" for a better tomorrow. This really makes alot of difference in how people view someone.

I really wish people could have a little more compassion for the people on DU who were looking not just to out bush but to also make our country a better place. Settling for Kerry is alot for alot of us to swallow. I think if people were compassionate they could at least admit that this might have some truth in it. For alot of us Kerry holds little hope.

[Zhade]

20. You nailed exactly how I feel.

Now everyone has put their hopes into Kerry a "hope" that he will win...but not necessarily a "hope" for a better tomorrow.

Should anyone but Kucinich win, it will be a fight to keep progressive issues on the new president's to-do list.

Who wins will determine the difficulty of the fight.

[corporatewhore]

16. Purge Purge Purge !!!!!

[thelocalkgb]

17. I agree

n/t

[JVS]

18. It is sad when people scream at a 19 year old for choosing to vote for a..

3rd party, while insisting that Senators in their 50's and 60's get a free pass for cooperating so much in the execution of Bush's agenda. It is as if the public is now accountable to politicians rather than vice versa.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JVS]

25. He needs no excuse the vote is his. It is his right to use as he pleases

And the fact that people would rather be mad at him than at the politicians who have let us all down is a sign of how screwed up things have become among the american left.

[edzontar]

29. You said it. Kerry and Edwards can vote for a criminal war....

But our friend is the one who is treated like a war criminal because does not want to vote for these men.

The self-appointed thought-police have probably done mre to damage the "unity" they claim to profess than any disgruntled, disappointed person who would have liked the chance to vote for a REAL Democratic progressive in 04.

[DuctapeFatwa]

48. And heaven forbid they insist that their candidates oppose the crusade

or the Patriot Act.

"Now listen here young man, you better vote for killing people and stealing their oil and putting anybody who disagrees in a cage or we'll see to it that one of those cages has your name on it."

Those most opposed to multi-party systems can interestingly, be the best arguments for them.

[Zhade]

19. Excellent post.

In a fair election, a stale sandwich would beat b*sh.

This, of course, will not be a fair election. It will, however, have a larger turnout than last time.

I'll pull the lever against b*sh, even if it's for Kerry. I'll hate it, because I don't trust Kerry for a second, but I'll do it. Of course, I'm in California - doubtful we'll go toward b*sh, even with the Nazi squatting in the governor's office. (An aside: SchwarzeNazi will NEVER be my governor. I'm convinced the election was stolen.)

Nice points on "sweetness and light". You catch more flies with honey...

And kudos for believing in the best in people, rather than the worst.

[union_maid]

22. We have a two party system

If you vote, in reality you're voting for one of the two major parties, at least in a presidential election. Even in a local election where a third party candidate has a shot, said candidate will end up furthering the aims of one of the two major parties. You can form all the parties you want. Doesn't matter. A vote for Buchanan was a vote for Gore (except in Florida - but that was kind of unusual) and a vote for Nader was a vote for Bush. That's the way it'll remain, too, unless we adopt a parliamentary system. That's a lesson all third party voters need to learn. You're not really voting your conscience if you're not aware of what your vote is doing and to whom it's doing it. Vote the way you want, but be honest about confronting what your vote really means in the real world, rather than what you'd like it to mean.

[WillyT]

23. Point Well Taken, But...

brow beating somebody with a couple of hundred posts here is a bit on the overkill side, don't you think?

My point was, and is, that the vote belongs to the voter. Not the party.

And trying to mug someone for their vote, or because they don't vote the way you want, is anything but democratic.

In any case, getting somebody to change their mind on who to vote for, usually isn't preceeded by a bunch of yelling, name calling, and threats.

That's why most candidates don't use that particular tactic, no???

:shrug:

[IndianaGreen]

24. We have two wings of the same bird of prey

as Pat Buchanan was fond of saying.

Speaking of Buchanan, he is openly supporting Edwards on account of NAFTA.

[jazzsammich]

40. but Sean's in UTAH.

and, given the unfortunate reality of the Electoral College, it would take a veritable army of imported Democrats to take that state. back in 2000, i think b**h won 67% of the popular vote in that state. 67%!!! (and of course, because of the electoral college, that means that ALL of the state's electoral votes went bush's way.) by nature of his residence there, a Dem vote from Sean has absolutely no chance to affect bush's removal from office. none. zip. zero.

--jim k.

*revolution fist in the air*

i'd write more on this subject, but i'm pooped. for now, big ups to sean for understanding the system inside and out.

ps. i lived in salt lake city in 2000. i voted for nader. don't even start with me, just re-read the paragraph at the top of my post.

[Citizen Kang]

68. From the best Simpsons episode of all time

Homer: America, take a good look at your beloved candidates. They're
nothing but hideous space reptiles.

Kodos: It's true, we are aliens. But what are you going to do about
it? It's a two-party system; you have to vote for one of us.

Man1: He's right, this is a two-party system.
Man2: Well, I believe I'll vote for a third-party candidate.
Kang: Go ahead, throw your vote away.

[John_H]

26. I prefer the "My guy better win or I'll throw a tantrum" threads. n/t

[WillyT]

27. Kick !!!

:kick:

[Hav]

28. .

First, everybody can do with his vote whatever one likes.
I respect both Sean Reynolds and WillyT's positions and reasonings.

But when he was in a state with no chance for a Democrat, then this vote wouldn't have mattered if Dean was the nominee and then why making a fuss that one goes third party because your preferred candidate dropped out? Either way, your vote wouldn't have really mattered.So why making the announcement on this board that you go third party? It only served the purpose to annoy and upset posters on these boards.And that is what happened.

[edzontar]

30. Thanks for this thoughful and well-written post.

You have expressed my feelings and those of many others on this board with eloquence and wit.

I almost certainly WILL vote for Kerr-Wards because I live in PA, which will be close, and because Bush has to go.

That is it.

But I no longer care about the primary race, which ended for me yesterday afternoon.

[WillyT]

31. Thanks !!! --- I'm With You !!!

Peace!

:hug:

[maxanne]

32. thanks WillyT

nicely said. So much more nicely than the "if you don't vote for kerry you will singlehandedly be responsible for Armageddon" threads.

:yourock:

[corporatewhore]

33. We must all get behind Tweedle Dee!!!!!

[WillyT]

34. No Way Man, I'm For Tweedle Dum !!!

So there!!!

:silly:

[maxanne]

36. it's about fear

some people are very fearful of those who question, and don't follow blindly.

[Dr Fate]

39. And some people are just scared of John Ashcroft, Dick Cheney...

...and Chief Justice Scalia...

[maxanne]

42. I think we all are

but bludgeoning and insulting me isn't going to win me over to your point of view.

[Piperay]

38. Worse is the ones who threaten

to bolt the party if they don't get their candidate. That kind of thing puts me in mind of some bratty little kid who threatens to "take all his marbles and go home" if he doesn't get his way, boo hoo hoo. :puke:

[maxanne]

43. are you

unable to see any reason why some folks might be dissatisfied with the Party right now, Piperay?

It seems to me that instead of beating people up around here, it would be more sensible to give 'em some breathing room to make some decisions. After all - the primaries aren't even over yet for many.

[Piperay]

49. I haven't vote in my primary yet either

I live in CA and I intend to still vote for Clark. Yes, I can see people are disatisfied with the party, I am too but threatening to not vote for the nominee because you don't get your way is only going to get bush re-Selected.


EDIT: ops had to change re-elected to re-Selected cause we all know he wasn't elected.

[maxanne]

57. I don't suppose

it occurs to you that people are feeling pretty raw right now, and not terribly happy that they're being given an empty suit as a candidate. It seems to me that letting people vent, breathe, and regroup is more sensible than beating them up. Beatings don't win anyone over to your way of thinking. In fact, beatings guarantee rebellion.

Your choice.

[WillyT]

59. BING- GO !!! --- What You Said Maxanne, Right On !!!

:bounce:

[Piperay]

62. Hopefully they are just venting and

don't really mean it or the empty suit we all end up with is the one the chimp will be wearing while he sits in the Oval Office. That is the empty suit I am worried about.

[rucky]

44. Authoritarians among us

power seems to be a powerful incentive to win

[Cuban_Liberal]

45. "I have in my hand a list of people who do not support Sen. Kerry."

I am sick and tired of having my loyalty to this party maligned, just because I oppose the idea of John Kerry being our nominee. I am additionally infuriated by the repeated suggestions that by challenging John Kerry's record, policy positions, etc., I am somehow 'weakening him' should he become the nominee.

This is a PRIMARY, folks, not a coronation! There is NOTHING disloyal OR insidious in opposing John Kerry's attempt to gain the nomination, and those who keep suggesting otherwise are guilty of the DU equivalent of 'McCarthyism'. I have not only the right to oppose John Kerry by supporting another candidate, but I have an obligation to do so if I believe John Kerry to be an inferior candidate for our party's nomination!

Sheesh!

[WillyT]

53. You Make An Outstanding Point C_L !!!

"I have not only the right to oppose John Kerry by supporting another candidate, but I have an obligation to do so if I believe John Kerry to be an inferior candidate for our party's nomination!"

Well said, and spot on.

If only 'principle' was the coin of the realm.

:hi:

But hey... this is POLITICS!!! :nuke::nuke::nuke:

LOL!!!

[edzontar]

46. The most nauseating aspect of most of those threads is the

Insistence that we unite NOW around a candidate (almost always Kerry) who has NOT even won the nomination yet.

I mean, what is UP with that?

I don't know if this line of reasoning is fueled by fear or impatience or what, but it is certainly premature and borders on bullying.

Hopefully we wil hear less of this in the next several weeks, but i doubt it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

47. I absolutely agree, edzontar!

See my post above yours. :hi:

[Deaner1971]

50. But...

Will you unite in November? That's what I want to know.

By the way Angel was friggin hilarious last night.

[edzontar]

51. I am in PA and so my vote is sworn to the nominee

As for Angel--that was one of the best episodes ever!!!

Especially when the werewolf babe attacked the Angel puppet!!!!

I nearly fell out of seat with laughter.

[Deaner1971]

54. That was good

I also liked the scene when the Angel puppet was chewing on Spike.

Great show last night.

Sorry, off topic. Everyone can just ignore...

[West Coast Democrat]

55. Sean can be busy supporting Democratic candidates in Utah.......

rather than whining about how he's compelled to vote third party.

Yes, as you note, a vote is cast in private....so why should one announce their intentions on this board in a spiteful manner?

[WillyT]

56. Ooo.. Ooo.. *Raises Hand* I Know... I Know !!!

To encourage duscussion???

LOL!!!

Peace!

:hi:

[West Coast Democrat]

63. The original poster was the one who mentioned voting was...

a personal thing, not me. Anyway, bringing up these stupid threats to be spiteful is not actually "encouraging discussion," it's just encouraging more bitterness.

It's obvious Dean supporters are having a very hard time getting over the fact that their savior has dropped out of the race.'

However, Sean happens to live in a swing House district....a seat currently held by a Democrat in the conservative state of Utah!! I'm going to encourage him to help Rep. Matheson, because we really need to hold onto our House seats. Don't you agree?

[maxanne]

58. nice of you to be so supportive

of the turmoil a young voter is experiencing around his first presidential election.

Thanks!! :hi:

[WillyT]

60. Man, Does Anybody Here Remember Being Young And Idealistic ???

I do.

I'm more worried about those here who might be young, but have no idealism left. If they ever had it at all.

:scared:

[maxanne]

61. I do, too

Willy. It's a shame so many of us have forgotten.

[KeepHopeAlive]

65. Thankfully, I haven't forgotten

We should be applauding his enthusiasm and willingness to explore.

[West Coast Democrat]

64. What turmoil?

Seriously, Dean drops out and you people act like it's the end of the frickin' world!! I mean, it's not like sElection 2000---Dean lost fair and square.

Are you guys trying to prove Ann Coulter's point that the Democratic Party are a bunch of whiners, or what?

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

66. Get over it

Especially Dean supporters.

[WillyT]

69. That's The Way To Win 'Em Over, LOL !!!

To forget the 'or else' part!!!

:hi::evilgrin::hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

67. About as much as I love the I'm going third party to spite you all threads

That's why I posted "No biggie" on Sean's thread...but if Sean then propagandizes as he did with his MATESRKERRY post, his reach is far beyond Utah.

[revcarol]

71. Oh, I thought that was sooooo funny.

and one site on the internet is not going to kill us. "reach far beyond Utah?" Piffle.

I am tired of being bullied because I support a vanity candidate, a fringe candidate and a FINE CANDIDATE.I support a SUPERIOR candidate and I deserve to be trashed because I want the finest for our nation and the world? I'm supposed to settle for blow-dried when I can have a candidate who is REAL?

Remind's me of Newt's days: everyone in lockstep, now!!
Is that what we want?

[WillyT]

70. Last Kick From Me !!!

Thanks for your input folks!!!

:hi:

:kick: