The primary's over. Now let's vote on principle!

[Guaranteed]

We've gotten it down to a choice between two guys. Let's start thinking about what kind of president we really want!

Okay...I'll start!

I want a president who was against the war.

Hmm....don't see him. Huh. Well, forget that.

How about this: I want a president who isn't beholden to corporate interests and is willing to take on the media conglomerates to make sure that we maintain an at least halfway healthy democracy.

Nothing there either? You've gotta be kidding.

Well, can I at least find one that's willing to stand up for our basic constitutional rights? The 1st Amendment, the 4th Amendment? Gay marriage? Geez.

No?

Maybe we shouldn't have waited so long to start voting on principle.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Two out of three of those issues depend on how the Supreme Court

is stacked. Think again.

[Guaranteed]

5. Dean and Clark were the most electable candidates. nt

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. You'll never be able to prove that since they fared so poorly with their

own parties. You also responded to my post with a complete non-sequitur.

[Guaranteed]

7. What'll it prove when Kerry loses

because Bush calls him on the fact that Kerry's been voting for almost all of Bush's policies?

On edit: Principle IS electability. Sequitur.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. And Dean could have easily been called on some of his comments

prior to the war and comments on civil liberties. Frankly, I think Kerry will be able to point to the Biden-Lugar amendment that was being crafted, the fact that Ashcroft has grossly abused portions of the Patriot Act for items not related to terrorism and the fact that regulatory changes in NCLB are necessary, along with the funding issues.

Furthermore, Kerry can also cite statements made by Perle et al that the WMD were the "bureaucratic" reasons for the war.

[Guaranteed]

10. Okay, so Kerry is going to try to complicate the issues,

and Bush is going to try to simplify them. Who do you think will win that battle?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. I think Kerry will do just fine against Bush in a debate

and is far less likely to lose his cool and make a comment he will have to explain later....an issue that has plagued Dean.

[Guaranteed]

12. But at least Dean would be able to offer resistance.

Kerry's gonna be up there with a bunch of "Yeah I voted for it but I didn't want it to happen THAT way" excuses. That's the way it's going to come across: a bunch of weak, political excuses. He's not going to look like a leader. He's going to look like a guy who got bulldozed and it trying to find his self-respect again. He's going to have very little to say.

Bush's re-election will be simple. All he has to do is make us relive what happened in 2002. Kerry will be shamed, his supporters (which are mostly bandwagoners- not you, of course) will be demoralized and disbanded (like in 2002), and Bush will take the election easily.

And I haven't even mentioned the "New England liberal" tactic yet.

The only way that Kerry could possibly win is if things got MUCH worse for this country between now and the election. If a majority of the country gets so disgusted with Bush that they want to throw him out on his ass, then they'll give the presidency to Kerry. Otherwise, Bush is going to look like a much stronger leader than Kerry, and Bush will win.

[Old and In the Way]

17. Bush vs. Kerry?

Absolutely no contest. Kerry will take Dimson apart. I can't wait to see them one on one in a debate.

[SinkingInTheRain]

31. Kerry is not the man or the job

We MUST get either and or both Dean and Kucinich on the ticket. I am working for that goal are you?

[Carolina]

33. disagree

I remember thinking in 2000 that Gore would dust the floor with Bush in the debates. Wrong. While he was clearly more knowledgeable, his demeanor and manner of speaking was easily distorted and then spun by the media as losses.

Kerry with his Senate-speak oratory and lack of inspiring delivery will be similarly Gored in the debates, if we even have them!

[For PaisAn]

8. Yes they were and

they were the most honest (of the top 4).

[Casablanca]

14. Kerry voted to confirm Antonin Scalia. ...

You might want to rethink using the SCOTUS as a rationale for voting for an Beltway insider other than Kucinich. (If you can call DK a real insider.)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. We've already rehashed this one.

Rehnquists nomination had passed and was more contentious so by the time Scalia came before the Senate and congress, there was less of a fight. The GRASP of the AEI was not yet apparent at the time of his nomination and besides, your argument falls short in that there is NO SCJ nominated by Democratic presidents that comes close to Scalia.

[JohnLocke]

2. WTF

How about this: I want a president who isn't beholden to corporate interests and is willing to take on the media conglomerates to make sure that we maintain an at least halfway healthy democracy.

Edwards?

[diamondsoul]

4. Try Kucinich

your description fits Dennis better.

[Xanth]

15. I agree with John

I believe Edwards is the only one now that people will relate too. And Tuesday just proved it. The only reason Kerry has done this good so far is because of momentum. Even though these two have voted with the President, Edwards is not an insider. Kerry is and will have credibility issues debating Bush.

[democratreformed]

3. This is the saddest part to me

I remember back when the war was first being discussed. Many people decided we would make our legislators who voted for IWR pay by voting them out. Boy, were we naive. Now, we are faced with one of them potentially taking the highest office in the land. There are many other reasons why I think it's sad, but I have accepted it and so be it.

[JVS]

32. Yeah. It's pathetic

[Carolina]

35. exactly why I left Kerry

in the first place and went to Clark.

Exactly why the issues don't seem to matter to the DNC, DLC and media and therefore exactly the reason we NEED someone who resonates with people on another level ... style, communication, humbler roots, whatever.

Exactly why Kerry is NOT the best choice.

[snoochie]

38. That is sad

Manufactured consent? Naaaaah.

[Snivi Yllom]

13. sad but true

This process sucks. Check the issues at the door that matter to you.

[Guaranteed]

16. So then it's just a gang war.

Who cares about a fucking gang war?

[gate of the sun]

18. For the p eople who care Kucinich is still in the race!

He's ignored on DU as much as the media ignores him. You can't say we don't have a choice to care. We still have Kucinich.

[madfloridian]

20. He is still on the primary ballots to push for a progressive agenda.

I intend to vote for him as he asked us to do in his speech. It could help.
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/003777.html#more

[dpbrown]

21. Welcome to Your Discovery of Dennis Kucinich

And to think, he was here all along.

Fear Ends
Hope Begins
Kucinich 2004

Dan Brown
Saint Paul, Minnesota

[mgc1961]

26. Right under their noses.

Who? What? Where?

[Guaranteed]

27. Hey, I always liked Dennis.

If I had to vote for someone still in the race, I'd vote for him. :)

[LynneSin]

22. How about these little known issues like CHOICE AND ENVIRONMENT

:eyes:

[Guaranteed]

24. Kerry didn't even vote on the PBA ban

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00051

[TexasSissy]

23. I want a Prez strong on environment. I want a Prez strong on middleclass

class. I want a Prez who wants to roll back the tax cuts given to the wealthy. I want a Prez who actively works to get more jobs in the country. I want a Prez who does something about the trade agreements - either cancel them or modify them to make them fair. I want a Prez who has a plan for healthcare for most, if not all, Americans. I want a Prez who gets a REAL international coalition involved in Iraq. I want Prez who does something about the American taxpayer being embezzled by Halliburton.

Hey....that's either Kerry or Edwards (or any of the other Dem. candidates)! But it's NOT Dubya. What luck! I have some great choices, and they are NOT Dubya. We have a chance. We really have a chance.

[Guaranteed]

25. Unfortunately they've been voting with Bush for two years.

Not that they AGREED with Bush's policies. They just voted for them.

[Snivi Yllom]

28. Have you seen this about Kerry and drilling

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4302564 /
Hardball transcript 2/17/04

MATTHEWS: How about ANWR? You guys want to see ANWR because you want to see guys working in your business. I guess there‘s a lot of Teamsters jobs up there lined up and organized, if you could put a pipeline up to the Alaska wilderness. He is against that.

HOFFA: Well, we talked about that.

He says, look, I am against ANWR, but I am going to put that pipeline in and we‘re going to drill like never before.

MATTHEWS: What, are they going to run water through it?

HOFFA: ... more jobs than the ANWR would have ever created.

MATTHEWS: What are they going to run through the pipeline?

HOFFA: And that‘s the position he‘s taking.

MATTHEWS: But he is against drilling up there. What are they going to run through the pipeline?

HOFFA: Well, they are going to drill all over, according to him. And he says, we‘re going to be drilling all over the United States. And he says that is going to create more jobs.

MATTHEWS: You got that guy rolling.

MATTHEWS: What position was he in when he made all these promises?

MATTHEWS: It just seems amazing that he has turned around on NAFTA, turned around on WTO, turned around on ANWR, anything to get the Teamsters.

HOFFA: Oh.

MATTHEWS: Who is going to be boss if he gets in there, you or him?

HOFFA: Well, I think that

MATTHEWS: It sounds like you are the boss.

[SinkingInTheRain]

29. Dean and or Kucinich are our only choice

We MUST convince them to run against the DNC norm and use the third party if need be. I know we can get enough progressives to bring them over the top. Let's get to it!!!

[library_max]

30. Maybe most Democratic primary voters don't agree with your principles.

Maybe they don't see things the same way as you. Maybe they don't share your opinion of the remaining candidates. Ever think of that?

[Guaranteed]

36. Most don't HAVE opinions on the issues.

They're voting for SUPPOSED electability. They're voting for Kerry because CNN TOLD THEM THAT HE'S THE MOST ELECTABLE.

[library_max]

37. And you know this because you've asked them.

All million-plus of them. Right?

Or is it just what you want to believe because you don't like their decisions thus far?

34. you might already know this

but I was voting on principle all along.
Not that I've had a chance yet since I live in New York.

grrrrrrrrr:evilgrin:

[Kenneth ken]

39. DENNIS KUCINICH!

Maybe you need to look beyond what THE CORPORATE MEDIA TELLS YOU ARE YOUR ONLY choices?

The primaries are NOT over.