Dennis Kucinich tells how to stop the madness - why is he ignored?

[RiverStone]

Dennis Kucinich gave this interview on Democracy Now! back on May 24, 2007. The same date the Democrats caved in with last May's war funding resolution vote. A few months later, his words still apply; though they seem lost in the wind to those on The Hill. No better evidence to that effect then yesterday's vote of 92 YEA 3 NEY for more war dollars to Shrub.

Folks, our Democratic leaders actually moved in the opposite direction. More voted for war funding then they did last May. I'm still stunned and completely mystified at what feels like a total push back (not against BushCo) but against We The People that voted them in power ON AN ANTI-WAR PLATFORM.

What about DK's recommendations do (or do not) make sense? He is one of the few shining examples of logic at a time where I find very little of it with our current batch in Washington. Yet most in the MSM/coporate/Party elite structure either ignore or laugh him off. The TRUTH really seems to scare some folks.

The interview went as follows...

AMY GOODMAN: Antiwar groups have harshly criticized the Democratic leadership. United for Peace and Justice accused the Democrats of supporting a disastrous war and occupation. The group Win Without War said this decision marks a “complete capitulation to a failed president and a failed policy.”

We’re now joined by one of the leading antiwar voices on Capitol Hill, Congress member and presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich of Ohio. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Congressmember Kucinich.

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Thank you. Good morning, Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: What is your assessment of this?

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: Well, you know, there’s a fundamental misperception about the path the Democrats should be taking. We shouldn’t be offering any legislation at all. We should just simply tell the President we’re not going to fund the war. And this idea about funding the war to help the troops is absurd. You want to help the troops, bring them home.

I offered a plan, HR 1234, that would provide for a plan that would bring the troops home, close the bases, end the occupation and reach out to the international community for an international peacekeeping and security force that would move in as our troops leave. But we can’t do that until we end the occupation. We can’t end the occupation until we stop funding the war. We simply do not have to have a bill, Amy. It’s just as simple as that.

JUAN GONZALEZ: What about those Democrats who argue that they could not get a majority vote or at least one that would survive a presidential veto to stop the funding, so that they’ve got to then have a concession of some sort?

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH: I want to make sure I’m being clear about this. I’m saying that it’s not necessary to have a bill, that the process depends on legislation to keep the war going. But there’s money in the pipeline right now to bring the troops home. We simply should tell the President we’re not going to fund the war, period. We don’t need legislation to do that. And the idea that somehow we need to fund the war to help the troops, again, it’s an absurd thought, and we need to start to reorient ourselves to getting out of Iraq. This administration isn’t going to do that, and frankly, the Democratic Congress is failing the American people at this moment.

more interview here:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/24/143225

[valerief]

1. He doesn't want to make enough rich people richer, I guess. nt

[GliderGuider]

16. I beg to differ

He doesn't want to make the right people richer.

[NoodleBoy]

2. well, I tend to ignore people who've ever said something like this:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/2/23/113236/176

Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self. The energy of the stars becomes us. We become the energy of the stars. Stardust and spirit unite and we begin: One with the universe. Whole and holy. From one source, endless creative energy, bursting forth, kinetic, elemental. We, the earth, air, water and fire-source of nearly fifteen billion years of cosmic spiraling

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. That's Actually Good Prose

"All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his, real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.”

[tech3149]

12. You have a problem with someone with a spiritual nature?

I guess you haven't read Castaneda. All the "front tier" candidates are trying to out-religious everyone else, but there is a huuuuggge difference between spirituality and religiosity. Spirituality requires striving toward enlightenment based on observation of the world around you and introspection. Religiosity only requires you to believe in a world view presented in a manner you can agree with. I'd rather put my trust in someone who gained their beliefs through struggle and questioning the world around them than someone who adopts the ideas of others.

[More Than A Feeling]

28. Much of the time "spirituality" is a codeword for New Age silliness.

and that's just as baseless as the beliefs of the most hardcore Christian fundamentalist. Sometimes, spirituality isn't a codeword for that, but it those cases, I think you could find other words that don't connote supernaturalism. Like, oh, say...observation of the world around you and introspection. Why dress it up in words like spirituality, so ambiguous as to be almost completely meaningless?

[superkia]

29. So they are all crazy but at least Kucinich is speaking the truth.

So do we elect a crazy person that lies and supports corporations or do we elect the crazy one that speaks up for the people like they are supposed to do? America is going to continue its downward spiral as long as people always find any reason to write off the candidates that speak the truth for the people. It is our fault as American that the country is in its current shape and it is our fault that we will continue to be in a false war for profit as we kill thousands of innocent people to make a few rich and powerful. Everyone bitches at the republicans or at the democrats as weak but their not, they are just worried about the same agenda to stay in power by making certain people wealthy so they can buy the next office. Until we decide to elect a president that will stand up and give the people a voice, we will continue to cause ourselves problems.

I am sick of the same people complaining about the shape of our country, while they are electing career politicians who look our for themselves and the wealthy. When those people wake up, hopefully we will still have rights and elections and can then create a positive future for our children. Until then, if you are voting for one of those candidates that don't speak up for you...shut the fuck up and stop your crying!

[Greyhound]

20. I see no difference between this and someone that professes to believe in an invisible man

in the sky that reads everyone's mind and decides to send some people to an eternal paradise and to torture others forever.:crazy:

It has no bearing on leadership or good ideas.

[Ron Green]

36. I see a hell of a difference

between spiritual awareness of Unity and fearful dogma.

Indeed if a majority of people in the world shared the spiritual musings of DK as stated above, we'd have peace and cooperation where there is war and enmity.

[LittleClarkie]

39. My eyes crossed about half way through that

Like someone took Philosophy 101 and is showing off. I knew people like that in college.

[flvegan]

3. He doesn't have millions in corporate support.

He's also not a lying sell out. Oh, and he's short.

In addition, it appears that actually getting out of Iraq may hurt the general coffers of some powerful folks. Meh, 2013 might be a good time to start thinking about getting out, but don't hold your breath.

[Didereaux]

4. and one fault Dennis has is he does not stay focused long ...he scatters his shots. n/t

[Desertrose]

6. scatters his shots??

Sometimes you need someone to get the ball - or balls- rolling.....

[Joe Chi Minh]

24. He must have a heck of a job finding targets. Seriously, I expect Dennis has a

more or less coherent world-view, and wants to share it with the electorate, showing how the parts fit together and will create all sorts of synergies.

[ProudDad]

7. He doesn't have $63,000,000 to move the propaganda!!!

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp

[BridgeTheGap]

8. He's too populist to make popular?

MSM will let us know who's popular, you know, like Brittney / Lindsey, et al.

[GreenArrow]

9. Plato's allegory of the cave

.

[Virginia Dare]

10. The problem I have with this argument is..

in truth, we really have no idea what the outcome of cutting off funding for the troops in Iraq would be, because it's never been done. Kucinich's plan is based on all sorts of assumptions (many false in my view) about what Bush would do, whether by choice or by force.

[jmp]

11. I hate to say it but ...

Most Americans are afraid of anti-war type candidates.

[Dulcinea]

13. Because wars make money for corporate America. eom

[Lerkfish]

14. truth is not en vogue

I guess.

[KansDem]

15. The more I see/hear of DK the more I like...

I will, of course, support and vote for the "D" next year, but I think DK is the "real deal."

[Greyhound]

22. Click my banner and let him know there's another DUer that likes what he's saying.

That's why we have primaries, this is the time to let all the candidates how you feel.

[Gregorian]

17. Republicans own our media.

There was a slow motion coup. And that's all there is to it. The Supreme Court, the FCC, the media.

We are truly in trouble.

[OwnedByFerrets]

18. He's too short for the SS to see him in a crowd of people..........

and that makes as much sense as any other reason why he is ignored.

[2rth2pwr]

19. Kucinich has not been ignored, this is his second run

he has been at all of the debates, and his days are full of interviews. The truth is most Democrats have seen him, weighed his proposals and chosen a different candidate.

Nobody is "scared" of him.

[RiverStone]

25. I'd assert if not ignored, then marginalized

...by the powers that be. I addressed this question specifically here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1961781&mesg_id=1961781


And yea, guess you can tell who I'm voting for in the primaries:)

[mmonk]

21. He needs a larger venue to tell the truth.

One of the greatest disappointments to me has been this "democratically held" congress. I will never get over it probably. I never will trust a politician unless they are clear in their views and I agree with those views. That's why I can't guarantee I will vote for a double speaking democrat when asked. I have to know their stances in clear terms. I consider this congress a failure.

[Bo Bike]

23. He is ignored because he speaks nonsense.

What Kucinich is saying sounds good but is not reality. Being in government you would think he know how it works. If you do not pass a war appropriation bill W will just draw funds from the D.O.D. general budget for the war, and force democrats to not appropriate the D.O.D. If you do not appropriate the D.O.D., W will be forced to pull the troops out immediately which is not palatable for the majority of Americans. De-funding the entire military while there are troops in a war zone is unwise for many reasons including safety. If Kucinich is relying on W to be responsible and use the money in the pipeline to pull the troops out he is in dreamland. W will force the dems to de-fund the entire military, which will not fly with the American people.

[mmonk]

26. So give him his disgraceful war based on lies and his oil

he came to rob and go the fuck home because that is the same thing.

[Bo Bike]

27. Unfortunately that’s the truth of it.

Until we can get a veto proof majority we are stuck with this stupid war.

[mmonk]

40. According to my constitution,

congress has the say in matters of the purse and war. Don't send him a bill. He can't veto what he doesn't have.

[Bo Bike]

44. This is what will happen if you do not appropriat a war bill.

If you do not pass a war appropriation bill W will just draw funds from the D.O.D. general budget for the war, and force democrats to not appropriate the D.O.D. If you do not appropriate the D.O.D., W will be forced to pull the troops out immediately which is not palatable for the majority of Americans. De-funding the entire military while there are troops in a war zone is unwise for many reasons including troop safety. If Kucinich is relying on W to be responsible and use the money in the pipeline to pull the troops out he is in dreamland. W will force the dems to de-fund the entire military, which will not fly with the American people.

[gateley]

30. I feel your frustration and empathize. And it's a VERY valid question. At

least with my candidate people are ready to jump in and and rant about why they think he's a jerk (!), but at least he isn't ignored.

Have faith. Truth will out. In the interim -- Tums.

[AtomicKitten]

31. I don't think people take him seriously -

which is a crying shame because he's really on his game now.

[cobalt1999]

32. I'd like to be able to take him seriously

Unfortunately he has never given me the slightest indication that he is serious about trying to win. He won't compromise on anything but his solutions, and hasn't shown he knows how to build congressional support for his ideas.

I've never yet had a Kucinich supporter explain his strategy for winning the nomination.

[AtomicKitten]

33. I think his participation in the debates is holding the others' feet -

to the fire, but I find it difficult to believe that even he really thinks he has a chance to win the nod. His focus on some basic truths is a good thing in my opinion. I think he's keeping the others on their toes by insisting on accountability, this entire primary process hopefully honing a better candidate to represent Democrats in the general.

[cobalt1999]

34. I also don't believe he thinks he has a chance,

However, I also haven't seen a serious effort from him to try and win. Even if he knows he is a long shot, shouldn't he at least try? Organize in the early states, concentrate his limited funds where they would have the most impact, and have a presence where he can build some momentum.

I haven't seen any of that from him and none of his supporters here have explained the strategy behind his apparently aimless campaigning.

He is going to have to act serious before anyone will take him serious.

[truedelphi]

47. Oh he must think that te has a chance

I ran for office in 2000 for city council.

Nobody puts themselves through the ordeal of endless campaigning, lack of sleep, meetings with church groups, debates, visiting the editors of newspapers, etc for the fun of it.

The lack of sleep alone endured by candidates allows me to say with a straight face that I hold immense respect for politicians on the campaign trail (Yes, even ones I abhor have my respect for what they go through out there.)

You try four hours of sleep for six months and then get back to me.

[Nederland]

35. He is ignored because it's a bad idea

His idea is great so long as you are willing to the Iraqi's that have stuck their necks out for us and hang them out to dry. That's what we did in Vietnam, and 100,000 South Vietnamese died simply because they trusted us not to leave them hanging. DK's plan is great if you don't give a shit about those people.

[jmatthan]

37. Why should you think about these treasonous people

who for their own personal interest have condemned many hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis to death!

They should be arrested and tried for causing these deaths along with the war criminals, Bush, Cheney and crowd!

[Nederland]

45. It's not just the top tier

Sure Maliki and the people at the top are little better than Bush, but there are tens of thousands of other people that would be adversely affected by an American pullout. Policemen, bureaucrats, judges--scores of people that are merely trying to do the right thing and will likely be slaughtered if we leave too quickly.

[Amonester]

41. When a "quiet" place is a "bad idea" maybe a hell hole is better?

Reuters: Iraqis say Basra quieter after British troop pullout
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1970046

Funny, Vietnam also was "quieter" after the American troop pullout (but at what cost?)...

[Nederland]

46. The British did it right

Actually, I think the British got it right in Basra and the quiet you are witnessing is the result. They didn't engage in the type of reckless, unilateral withdrawal that DK is suggesting. They fought the opposition to the negotiating table and made sure that there was a single, recognized force in charge capable of maintaining the peace after they left. That's how to do it, not this crazy unilateral plan of DK's.

[eridani]

43. Of course all our caring war promoters show it by murdering a million of them

We are refusing to take Iraqi refugees right now (even those that have fled because of being in danger because of working for us), and that has exactly jackshit to do with further funding of the war.

[LWolf]

38. He's a threat to the corrupt status quo,

and a threat to those voters who are more comfortable turning a blind eye to the corruption.

[mike_c]

42. because few in Washington-- dems included-- want to "stop the madness...."

Not while there's still so much money to be made....

[Desertrose]

48. Iwas gonna say the same thing!

As long as $$ can still be made.... :shrug: nothing will really change.

The changes we need are much BIGGER I'm afraid.

DR