The Reverse Hillary Bashing Effect

[ruggerson]

A strange psychological phenomenon, wherein various teenagers and irascibly immature gangs of message board congregators demean and castigate a candidate with such childishness and irrational vindictiveness, that it drives otherwise ambivalent, rational people to take a hard look at the contender and warm up to her.

I can't be the only one this has happened to.

I didn't even like this woman eight months ago. She was near the bottom of my personal '08 contender list.

Now, after carefully watching how she conducts herself in the campaign, observing her steeliness and resolve, and after surprising myself repeatedly in my reflexive desire to defend her here from the 'fall on their own sword' mob, I find that she's climbed into my top two.

Thank, Hillary bashers! You've played a small but interesting role in putting her into focus for me.

[JuniperLea]

1. LOL!!

:rofl:

[burythehatchet]

21. :rofl:

[MethuenProgressive]

2. I've been a Kerry-man for years - but DU has made me love Hillary

Thanks, DU!

[jcrew2001]

14. Really, so the RW stuff from the 90s made you hate Hillary more?

thats strange, you'd distrust democrats in their opinion of hillary.

[gateley]

19. And I've always loved Nader, but that pales in comparison to my newfound love for Hillary.

[Vincardog]

3. Cough Cough BS Cough Cough

[Taverner]

4. Main reason I like Clinton: She can win

And you can trust that the 8 years under Clinton will be better than what we have now. She gets shit done, and we need shit done.

[emilyg]

13. Amen. Strong woman.

[JuniperLea]

22. You've already got her re-elected?

:rofl:


There's not a chance in hell a Republican can win this election. Put away the fear and vote for realsies.

[roguevalley]

44. the few times I've ever voiced my reasoned problems with her

candidacy, I was called a freeper and undem. you can't have any objections to her based on anything that is thoughtful and reasonable and not get lumped in. that sucks.

[Kelly Rupert]

5. Same here, only top three. n/t

[movonne]

6. Gee I guess you like her vote on Iran...do you think she wants to

be a war president...If you are for a war with Iran, she is your candidate..

[ruggerson]

8. Yes, she and I both wish to dismember Iranians and eat their babies

n/t

[CreekDog]

12. Me too, very hungry, like bomb things

;)

[JeffR]

7. Eight months ago I didn't like her, and I still don't

and whenever I utter a reason why I don't, or see someone else do so, I have to read the standard "bash, hate, jealous, misogynist, loony left" allegations.

Yes, she's running a disciplined, smart campaign. Yes, she herself is disciplined and smart. Yes, she might even make a good president, and at this point has a very good chance to prove it.

And no, I still don't like her positions on many issues, don't feel she's entirely trustworthy, have grave misgivings about the depth of her liberal bona fides (which I will acknowledge she has).

For expressing opinions such as the ones in the preceding paragraph, I've been treated like an errant three-year old by Clintonistas on this board, and seen it happen to countless others.

If you're in the Clinton camp now, I can only wish you well. You're an articulate, committed person. Just beware of adopting the standard logical fallacies consistently employed by the senator's most vocal followers here. This OP, I say with great respect, is already verging on it...

[ruggerson]

17. Well I ain't there yet

and I will admit that there are some, if not many, principled, lucid objections to her, and you are one of the few to express those sentiments. But you surely can see much of the lunacy with which the anti Clinton brigades have conducted themselves.

My worries about her are: that they despise her so much, that some heretofore unknown scandal comes to light in October, 08. That she gets carried away in the heat of a campaign, yells something that sounds stupidly shrill, and they run it as an endless campaign commercial. That Bill gets her into some kind of unexpected hot water.

I trust her instincts implicitly on the issues. Most of my remaining wariness is purely political.

[babylonsister]

33. Thanks for that. I'm trying to stay out of it, but I'm not impressed for many of

your reasons. :toast:

[JeffR]

36. I try to stay out of it, too

but every now and then I get crazy and can't refrain from commenting. It's gonna be a long primary season. Come to think of it, it already is...!

[ShortnFiery]

9. OMFG!

That mere notion is so hilarious and bizarre - words escape me. :rofl: :spray: :rofl:

[Botany]

10. You are killing me .... stop

observing her steeliness and resolve :rofl: :spray:

[CreekDog]

11. Happened and is happening to me

They know not what they do.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Just when I think HRC's *machine* couldn't dig any lower in the muck ...

they come up with something like this ... truly bizarre.

Good luck with this but methinks you can't make people like someone who, IMO, is innately secretive and self-righteous. Disciplined or not, people don't like HRC. :shrug:

[CreekDog]

20. Didn't come from any machine, just human nature

Unfair criticisms appeal to people's sympathy and make someone appear to be an underdog, thus a rallying effect that ultimately helps them.

So, bash all you want, especially unfair bashing, you simply gain her more supporters right here, if that's what you want, just keep it up.

[ShortnFiery]

23. Yes, and that Kyl-Lieberman vote made her sparkle even more.

:crazy:

[emilyg]

39. If that's your only issues.

[gateley]

15. Bwah! nt

[CreekDog]

16. This phenomenon is more about DU than about HRC

That's the point.

[William769]

24. Welcome aboard!

Try as they might, they are just anti productive.

[calteacherguy]

25. I've experienced a similar transformation. nt

[Armstead]

26. By that logic you should reallllly love George Bush

No one gets bashed on DU more than GW.

So if vehement criticisms on DU is your criteria for choosing a candidate, rather than your own observations and instincts, then GW Bush or any of the GOP contenders should be the ones to benefit it.

As for me, I don't dislike Hilary personally. However, what and who she represents is the opposite of what Democrats and America need at this point in time. That's why I get a little carried away -- because the stakes are so much higher than feelings towards any candidate as a person.

[killbotfactory]

27. Any excessive vitriol towards a candidate is counter-productive

And every candidate is subjected to it here. She is one of the most powerful women on earth and she can defend herself fine. Expecting people here to just accept her nomination as a foregone conclusion and not subject her to scrutiny and criticism, then you might want to consider spending more time on a Hillary blog and less time on this forum.

[ruggerson]

38. You might want to re read the OP

n/t

[killbotfactory]

43. Do you understand that people have different ideas of what "bashing" means?

I've seen people here act like any criticism of their favorite candidates is "bashing". Hillary certainly isn't the only one being raked over the coals.

Cite some examples of what you are talking about.

[ruggerson]

49. I'm not talking about

legitimate disagreements with her on the issues. I'm talking about this constant, juvenile personal animus many here seem to have towards her.

I've seen her referred to as every single Free Republic pejorative here. Here. At Democratic Underground.

One example of many: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3561236#3561441

[ginchinchili]

28. So you gotta either support her or you're mean and immature?

Yeah, that's the kind of Party leader I want. It's sort of like, you're either with us or you're against us. Well I'm neither mean nor immature, and I don't want Hillary Clinton as the Democratic candidate. I don't believe she can get elected in a general election, and even if she could, our country can't take 4 more years of divisiveness. We have better candidates.

[jefferson_dem]

46. Submit now! Resistance is futile.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. I Swear

I used to watch her and be amazed at how bland she was... Now I see that blandness as steely resolve...

[earthlover]

35. Steely resolve?

I don't see her as having much resolve at all. She is down the middle. Will triangulate. Principles, resolve? Just what does she stand for that she is willing to do on principle, that she has enough steel to take an unpopular but principled position, or even to lead us?
She has the steel of a soft stick of butter! And the resolve....hell, she can't even make up her mind who to root for in the World Series among her two favorite teams! She said she would maybe....wouldn't even have enough resolve to say definately....root for one on one day and the other on the next. Steel resolve more like slippery wimpiness.

If you think she is going to stand up for you I am afraid you are being played.

[DinahMoeHum]

30. I met her up close and personal back in 2000 during a fund-raiser

when she was running for US Senate.
And it's really true, going one-on-one with her, I saw that she's not really the cold fish the TV shows her to be.

While I'm still not crazy about her as a POTUS candidate (BTW, I have ro real emotional or financial stake in ANY of the POTUS candidates) - if she wins the nomination, I will support her to the hilt.

As far as I'm concerned, the worst Democrat among the current crop of POTUS candidates is still a thousand times better than the best Republikkan.

Yes, even Hillary would be a thousand times better than them.

:kick:

[babylonsister]

34. What about Joe?

Your post was tailor made for this though the choices are lousy.:)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1935580

[DinahMoeHum]

51. Joe hasn't been a "Democrat" since mid-2006. He's an "Independent"

and HE's not running for POTUS.

He's an independent only in the sense that he has no loyalty to ANY party except himself.

Come 2009 when we solidify the Dem Senate lead - he will be marginalized and consigned to crap details.

:kick:

[fenriswolf]

31. and your welcome

for not looking at her policies, her voting record, where her money comes from or who she takes advice from. Just listen to the words from her mouth and it will all be alright.

*edit* sry did not realize this was a sarcasm thread

[Armstead]

32. Bingo

[creeksneakers2]

37. Its true for me

I like Chris Dodd but end up defending Hillary daily. The more unfairly she's treated the more I like her.

In '98, the reverse bashing effect caused Bill's approval to go up 10 points when his impeachment started. The wingers are going to be even more psychotic next summer and its likely that the general public will choose Hillary's sound mind over the lunatic ranting of the right.

[depakid]

40. All a rational person should care about is Clinton's policies

which are essentially be to right of a 70's style Republican like Gerald Ford.

[Froward69]

41. I don't mean to be vulgar

back when the repubes were aghast at bill for getting a BJ. she was the victim. the repubes plaid that up. we all know the outcome. When she moved to NY and ran for the senate, I feared carpetbagging. After she won and the hints she would now run for prez surfaced. I thought Ha! that would stuff those goose stepping, Nazi republicans. I supported her. In the intervening years, bushyboy has screwed this country so bad. She is so "in bed" with big business. she answers questions on poles. The condom candidate I heard today, because she plays safe politics. Carl rove himself Wants Hillary to run. so does all tthe repubes. they know they can beat HER. I cant go there. my desire to want what is best for our country, over rides any desire to "stick it to em". she simply wont win. We as Democrats need to drop the inexperienced and go for golden President material. of the caliber of TJ, Lincoln, FDR, JFK! to me thats where we need to focus. If her candidacy distracts the republicans while we actually choose the best one for the job, Fine. but for the Love of Each other and OUR COUNTRY. Its Biden or Dodd, For president vice prez, Obama or Richardson. Hillary would never accept Vice.

[AtomicKitten]

42. I had a different experience.

I stood with Hillary from day #1 and defended her from some of the most vile sentiments expressed, but the truth is I really don't care for below-the-belt epithets lodged at any candidate.

That said, I made a different choice than you did. So sue me. My opposition to her and Edwards is the same; the circumstances surrounding the IWR-war. I view that as reasonable. But some of the more, um, strident Hillary and Edwards people aren't having it. In their view, if you don't sign on, you're a hater.

There is a big difference between not choosing a candidate because of their policies and past votes and just being a hater. Unfortunately too many people can't discern that not too subtle difference. And that lack of understanding is fertile ground for much of the discord here.

On edit: In fact, I defended Hillary in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3561236 so I'd like to deposit that good will in the Treasury of the Saints to use as a cosmic shield against the rancor here. Unfortunately that's not the way it works around here. That kind of good will is ignored, and the next time I'm debating the war, I will still be called a hater. See how that works or doesn't work as the case may be?

[BootinUp]

52. Thats different as you say

clearly there are haters that are not interested in any kind of honest discussion and then there are advocates for the various candidates quite different.

you defended Hillary? :) Ah yes he's gone now.

[jefferson_dem]

45. Funny. I never even considered supporting my now-preferred candidate either...

until I linked to an Obama smear site that was referenced on DU by a rather boisterous Hillary supporter. I couldn't believe people could be so filled with irrational hate for a seemingly reasonable, well-intentioned candidate who would promote the simple idea of a "new kind of politics." I had to take a closer look. Pretty soon...it became "All Obama - All the Time."

So...beware...Obama-bashers. You may just deliver the opposite of what you're after.

[Exultant Democracy]

47. Kyle/Lieberman, forget about it, DLC who cares. her bashers- well now I got to vote for her.

I hope you don't have a job where peoples lives depend on your judgment.

[BootinUp]

48. Nice thread ruggerson

I am heartened by it. The Hillary basher's distort what she stands for beyond belief, any honest assessment of the major candidates reveals how close they really are in policy positions and how they would try to govern. The question becomes which is most capable of governing effectively.

[Alamom]

50. K

[mcar]

53. I've had the same response

I was totally against her running before she announced. But all the bashing on this board has caused me to take a second look as well. She's not my top primary choice, but I'll happily campaign and vote for her if she gets the nomination. And I think she'd make a great President.