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[Name removed]

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[Raven]

1. Hi Pete. I agree completely.

Edwards is wonderful but no match for Bush on the 'terra' front. And while Kerry gets the rap of being a Washington insider, Edwards will be criticised for lacking enough experience. I think a Kerry/Edwards ticket would be a killer for Bush. Edwards is such an attractive, approachable guy that he takes the edge off of Kerry's coolness. I also like his 'two Americas' message. Kerry certainly can't talk about his lowly beginnings but Edwards can and I think many people can relate to that.

[cheezus]

2. I'd rather see Edwards/Kerry

I agree that the "war president" thing will hurt Edwards
But Edwards has such a broader appeal and chrisma

[Skwmom]

22. Kerry/Edwards would be a weak ticket.

Kerry is not immune to attacks that he is a Democrat weak on national defense (for example the Republicans are already attacking him for voting against funding for equipment critical to the Afghanistan campaign). Edwards does not help against these types of attacks. In addition, the Republicans will make Kerry's health an issue and would hammer home Edward's inability to step into the role of commander-in-chief if Kerry had to step down. I'm not thrilled with Kerry or Edwards. However, at least Kerry isn't a lightweight. I thought only the Republicans supported empty suits (like Reagan and Bush). If the Democrats nominate Edwards the Republicans will no longer hold that distinction.

[AP]

3. WI voters cared more about jobs than Kerry's M-16. Why won't the rest

of America.

Didn't Iraq rank LOWEST on people's list of concerns?

So what if Kerry can go head to head with Bush on the thing people care least about? He's not strong on everything else.

If Kerry and Bush battle it out on strong leadership, lots of Democrats are going to think that neither care about the issues most Americans care about and they'll stay home. And the people who do show up -- those who think terror IS the top issue -- will be predominantly Republican, and Bush will win.

[Cuban_Liberal]

4. Bravo!

:)

[Tweed]

6. Kerry can start talking about the economy too...

Edwards can't start talking about national security. If the economy starts to pick up, then Edwards has nowhere to go. Even if the economy starts to tank again, unlikely since it feel so low before, Bush can still win based on the war president idea.

[AP]

9. Kerry can't talk about middle class opportunity, just as Gore couldn't.

Have you seen their biographies?

Leno made a joke the other night: Kerry's solution to America's economic problems is to find a rich country like Switzerland and marry it.

That's what you'll hear a lot of if Kerry gets nominated.

[KittyWampus]

33. Well, Edwards Essentially LIED About HIS Biography

Son of a miller worker was his standard line... implying he grew up poor/working class.

REALITY- Edwards was the son of a Textile Mill manager who went on to own his own Textile Mill Consulting business. Edwards grew up very comfortably.

So they mediawhores haven't seized upon this YET.

Although they DID try and make Clark's mention of his poor upbringing look like HE was not telling the Truth (he was).

[AP]

35. I laugh every time you repeat this without any link.

In Silicon Valley, by the way, "owning your own consulting business" means you're unemployed.

[KittyWampus]

37. Who Cares If You Laugh? Edwards Lied & Grew Up Comfortable

in a Middle Class family with no economic hardships.

He was not a "son of a millworker" as he tries to imply.

[AP]

45. A link? An explanation for why he had to leave Clemson when

he didn't get an athletic scholarship? Or for why he didn't accept a place at Duke Law School, and he and his parents still had to spend everything they had to put him through UNC? Or for why his brother is an electrician, rather than a partner in the consultancy? Or for why he had to borrow 1.50 from his in laws to pay for his honeymoon motel room?

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AP]

10. Kerry LOST a 30+ point lead in a week when the talk turned to jobs.

[Cuban_Liberal]

16. You're not supposed to mention that!

Don't you know Kerry is the 'presumptive nominee', and 'ineviatble'? :P

[KittyWampus]

34. Kerry Had A Bimbo Smear & Hanoi Jane Thrown At Him

pretty much just when Clark left the race.

But GEE, that's all JUST a coincidence.

[AP]

43. Yet people still chose wisely on the issue of jobs.

And nobody I know was aware of the bimbo erruption.

It has actually given him an excuse for losing 30+ point lead, without actually being the reason.

I'd be glad there was a bimbo eruption for that reason alone.

[atre]

48. Yes, cryingshame....

It's all an elaborate ruse to prevent you from being happy. We've managed to deny you your first choice in Clark. Now we're working our asses off to deny you your second choice, as well!

:rolleyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Kerry has won

Iowa, NH, NM, ND, AZ, Delaware, Missouri, Va., TN, Wisconsin, and???? more....can't remember the rest. Washington and Michigan?? Edwards has won.....his birthstate, SC. Just a reminder. :)

[jpgpenn]

39. Including the 10% repukes that pumped up Edwards #'s?

[Casablanca]

46. Bush's Iraq War lies were the only thing that substantially ...

Decreased Bush's popularity ratings during his term. Enron didn't. The lack of jobs hasn't.

And even if people did believe some magical relationship between outsourcing to India and the Frat Boy, how do you think a Dem candidate would be able to make that charge convincingly? Bush's ties to the 9/11 hijackers are less tenuous.

[SangamonTaylor]

5. This seems to be conceding that our candidate will not frame the debate

Let bushco try to frame the debate on national security.

"It's the jobs stupid."

Instead of planning defensively, Democrats should think about going on the offensive on * where it hurts him the most.

[pmbryant]

25. Right. It is much harder to win playing defense.

There are certainly plenty of ways for either candidate, be it Kerry or Edwards, to poke holes in that shallow campaign message of Bush's.

We should not allow the Repubs to dictate the terms of the campaign. If Kerry plans on allowing this, I feel that is a big mistake.

--Peter

[colonel odis]

8. "it's the economy, stupid"

seemed to work in '92, after poppy had 90% approval ratings.

i don't think "wartime president" will matter one bit. people vote with their pocketbooks. always have. always will.

[DjTj]

11. Bush I tried to frame the debate and failed...

Like father, like son.

Edwards will frame the debate in his favor.

[AP]

13. That's homefield advantage for Dems and they should play on it.

It gets the fans excited and into the game.

[Tweed]

15. Last time I checked, it was 2004

Bush I is tottally different then Bush II. The only focus was the economy. The economy was really bad and showed no signs of improving. Now the economy is getting better and national security issues are much larger. With Edwards, the better the economy is, the worse his numbers will go. His numbers can still dip if national security issues are pounded.

[AP]

23. Wealth polarization is WORSE now than in 92, the corporate hegemony is

MORE hegemonic, and the war is being sold to hide those facts.

We run a candidate who makes people think more about class and opportunity than they think about the war, and the Dems win big.

[GreenArrow]

54. the unacknowledged elephant in the living room

The "war" IS THE Corporate Hegemony.

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. I think you nailed it Pete

Edwards is a damn good candidate, but he has one HUGE gaping hole in his resume. And you can bet the Bush team would exploit it to the max if he's the nominee.

[AP]

14. Kerry has a gaping hole in his res: he's not a veteran of the way most

Americans experience life in America.

[Tweed]

17. Wow

For a lover of history, I would think you would know that most presidents haven't been.

[AP]

21. They have a choice this year, Bush is the opponent, and many Americans

are feeling like they're losing class mobility and opportunity.

It's the perfect storm.

[atre]

49. Lincoln is a good analogy for Edwards

He wasn't born into wealth. He actually had less political experience than Edwards (Illinois legislature, failed Senate campaign). And his primary profession was the practice of law.

[Cuban_Liberal]

18. Son fo Privilege A vs. Son of Privilege B.

:shrug:

[SangamonTaylor]

19. the aristocrat choir sings....what's the ruckus

Personally, I like Edwards' biographical resume more than Kerry.

I wonder if people really care that he's the son of a mill worker. :) had to sneak that one in.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. He's a veteran liberal Democrat

which goes a long way in most people's books.

[bowens43]

20. I think that you greatly over estimate

of the right wings mantras.

[Snivi Yllom]

26. I could argue that Edwards is equally qualified as Kerry

I mean they both voted for the IWR.

[Lex]

27. Kerry as War Protestor

and Kerry's voting record in the Senate . . .

are 2 things that will be smeared, attacked, mischaracterized, and ridiculed relentlessly by the right wing.

Kerry will hardly have time trying to talk about himself, but will be on the defensive about those 2 things the entire time, imho.

My father is going to vote for Edwards in the primary because he thinks that Edwards doesn't give Rabid Right Wing the "Jane Fonda War Protestor" angle or the long history of Senate votes to attack.

I guess it all depends on your perspective.

I think either Kerry or Edwards would make a great President.

[emulatorloo]

36. anybody who cares wouldn't have voted Dem anyway

The only people negative about "Vietnam War Protestor" are not ever gonna vote Dem ever ever ever.

HIs voting record is defensible and he will defend it. This guy is not Al Gore.

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. That's why we

MUST have a Kerry/Clark ticket! No one has more experience in Foreign Policy than Wes Clark. He's a "must have" VP. IMO :7

[mouse7]

30. Edwards replies with "2 Americas" stump speech.

Kerry may have experience, but what good is that experience if Kerry can't communicate with voters and puts his most dedicated supporters to sleep.

Kerry was communicating with voters pretty well for a while, but that has tailed off badly. He's back to "Kerrydroning" through his stump speeches and debate appearances again. He's back to the old Kerry of early last year who thought he had the nomination won without ever needing to have a nomination process.

Kerry better go back to getting the fire back in his delivery, or Edwards is going to close and pass him before Super Tuesday.

[AP]

32. He's trying to get the fire back by cribbing from Edwards. That won't

work either.

[mouse7]

40. Kerry often steals his opponent material

Kerry stole most of Dean's rhetoric, and applied it to positions that very similar.

I noticed that Kerry is stealing from Edwards now, too. Unfortunately, he's droning through the stolen material, too.

I'll survive if Kerry steals from Dems if he beats Bush with the borrowed material. However, if he steals material, and then ruins it with Kerrydroning, he ruins the material for himself and the author.

[Meshuga]

44. People act as if Edwards won WI...

I also like Edwards and like I said before, this is the best case scenario for me since I will proudly vote for Edwards if he wins the nomination but Edwards has a lot of work to do if he wants to get a shot at winning the nomination.

Kerry has the money and an organization in NY and CA. Edwards is doesn't have much money and cannot afford to keep getting "strong seconds". Edwards needs to win the states where he wasn't born in first before having any hopes... :-)

[Jack from Charlotte]

31. The CAN be countered...........

Bush must be attacked as having failed at the War on Terror. He could be attack on several things on this topic.....

"We STOPPED the war on terror in order to attack Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11."

Why hasn't Bin Laden been caught?

I'd make an issue of our guys not having enough bullet proof vests. I'd make an issue of our guys in Iraq having to rig some of the vehicles with armor. "Why isn't this administration providing our troops with the best equipment? This should be top priority, even if the vest companies have to work 3 shifts and ahd we need to ship metal fabricators to Iraq."

Provide a comprehensive plan to deal with Iraq....... as well as a plan to deal with terror......... using the assitence of our allies... who'll return when the moron is removed from office.

If we just ignore this and say......... Jobs, Jobs, ..... Bush will hang the...."good thing Bush was in office or Bin Laden would be the winner, sign around our neck.

[arcos]

38. ahh... the Deanization of Edwards has officially begun! n/t

[citizen snips]

One word "Dukakis".

n/t

[citizen snips]

41. delete.

accedently posted the same thing twice.

[PurityOfEssence]

42. News flash: letting your enemy set the terms guarantees defeat

Bush-the-first tried the same thing in '92 and failed miserably because Clinton set the terms and demanded the sitting President to justify himself.

You are absolutely wrong on this, and the craven scrabbling for a war hero to counter the macho horseshit of the monarchists is just plain silly. Clark failed largely because of that.

Edwards has been on the Foreign Intelligence committee and very engaged in his short career.

Bush has made hideous blunders, and if he wants to run on his record, he has to do much more than just catch Osama, he has to pacify Iraq and quell some of the crap in the so-called holy land.

I completely dispute your contention of Kerry being the best choice, and Wisconsin proves it: Edwards did much better with crossovers and independents; he'll get all the votes Kerry would (maybe not quite as many veterans) and many more. He is the better debater, the better persona and has the freshness that brings excitement.

How is Kerry going to explain the '91 Gulf War vote? That alone nullifies any of his tough-guy credentials for the great unwashed.

Do you realize how much many Southerners and rural voters hate eastern liberals? Do you realize how many of them hate professorial intellectual brahmins of the old elite? Yeah, it's despicable for Junior to not be tarred with the label of "old money", but that's how it's going to work.

Did I mention that Junior and Edwards are both Methodists?

It's simple: Edwards can and will get all the votes Kerry will, and many, many more; to top it off, he will obliterate Junior in a debate, whereas Kerry will pontificate and come off as more together, but still remote.

Ask your non-voting friends. Ask people who aren't from NYC.

I'm absolutely serious. When was the last time you heard someone gush love and excitement for Kerry? People do that all the time for Edwards. A friend who's a lawyer for the EPA said something I've heard many, many times: with a sheepish twinkle in her eye, she admitted that he was hot; it was a crotch-level fascination, and a guilty pleasure, but it was REAL and people actually do vote on that level. Bear in mind, this woman is a daughter of a Federal Judge (mom, that is) and a high-pressure corporate attorney, so she's hardly the facile, dewy-eyed voter I generally refer to when speaking of this phenomenon.

Doncha want to WIN?

[spooky3]

52. re: "the better persona", Wisconsin voters agree

Those for whom the right "temperament" for the job was the most important factor in selecting a candidate overwhelmingly chose Edwards over Kerry. This is interesting because many pundits like to emphasize how "presidential" Kerry seems.

I would like to see Edwards look closely at why his message is not resonating as well with minority voters as Kerry's is, and to reframe the "experience" issue so that voters will consider that experience relevant to this job is not limited to experience in the Senate. Perhaps Edwards needs to emphasize more strongly recent actions he has taken to improve equal opportunity and what he would do going forward, and as for the second, I am sure he would have much better ways to do this than I could suggest.

[corporatewhore]

47. my neighbors find losing their job losing the house not bein able to pay

for their kids college scarier than terrorists and orange alerts edwars spoke out against nafta and conservatives and liberals both hate it

[atre]

50. Military experience did NOTHING for McGovern, either

I don't agree that we should let the Republicans frame the national debate. We need to do what Clinton did: hammer down the "jobs" and "economy" issues.

[Butterflies]

51. I agree. I think Kerry/Edwards would be the winner

on Edit: Kerry/Clark would work too.

:dem:

[sunnynair]

53. W's strategy

The neocon's desperate stategy would be coughing up Osama on October 22nd or another terror attack. I think one of these are coming.