The Heritage Foundation's description of poor

[dajoki]

I know this is an old article, but you just know the thinking hasn't changed, so when I came across it I had to post it. There isn't much to say, the writers, Robert E. Rector and Kirk A. Johnson, Ph.D., made their beliefs known very clearly. As a matter of fact they make living in poverty sound pretty darn good. There is absolutely no way you can get these kind of people to see the truth. They sicken me!! According to them the poor have it too good, God forbid, a poor person owning a telephone or TV, that is luxury!! These bastards should be put in a situation of poverty and then let me hear what they have to say. So Mr. Robert E. Rector and Kirk A. Johnson, Ph.D., you both can both kiss my poor ass!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Heritage Foundation
January 5, 2004
Understanding Poverty in America
by Robert E. Rector and Kirk A. Johnson, Ph.D.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg1713.cfm

<<snip>>

The following are facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau, taken from various government reports:

-Forty-six percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census -
Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.

-Seventy-six percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.

-Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

-The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

-Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.

-Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.

-Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

-Seventy-three percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

As a group, America's poor are far from being chronically undernourished. The average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-class children and, in most cases, is well above recommended norms. Poor children actually consume more meat than do higher-income children and have average protein intakes 100 percent above recommended levels. Most poor children today are, in fact, supernourished and grow up to be, on average, one inch taller and 10 pounds heavier that the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy in World War II.

<<snip>>

Overall, the typical American defined as poor by the government has a car, air conditioning, a refrigerator, a stove, a clothes washer and dryer, and a microwave. He has two color televisions, cable or satellite TV reception, a VCR or DVD player, and a stereo. He is able to obtain medical care. His home is in good repair and is not overcrowded. By his own report, his family is not hungry and he had sufficient funds in the past year to meet his family's essential needs. While this individual's life is not opulent, it is equally far from the popular images of dire poverty conveyed by the press, liberal activists, and politicians.

<<snip>>

The best news is that remaining poverty can readily be reduced further, particularly among children. There are two main reasons that American children are poor: Their parents don't work much, and fathers are absent from the home.

<<snip>>

Father absence is another major cause of child poverty. Nearly two-thirds of poor children reside in single-parent homes; each year, an additional 1.3 million children are born out of wedlock. If poor mothers married the fathers of their children, almost three-quarters would immediately be lifted out of poverty.

[Flabbergasted]

1. Have to play devils advocate for a second...

When comparing these folks to third world countries where such things are luxuries, it must be admitted that they have a point.

Now that said, the Heritage Foundation is full of shit!!!!

[dajoki]

3. But they weren't making that comparison n/t

[Honeycombe8]

10. It is invalid argument to compare U.S. poor with other countries' poor, unless....

you ALSO compare our wealthy and middle class with those classes in other countries, as well.

It is not a logical argument and is a red herring I've heard used before. It means nothing, really.

The standard of the U.S. poor is...what is poor in our country. Not what is considered poor in France or Ireland or Africa.

A valid comparison would be:

Our poor have 20% more space than the poor in France, AND our wealthy have 10% more space than the wealthy in France. (That would mean that our poor are doing better, by our standards, than the poor in France, by France's standards.)

I think the reality is this:
The U.S. poor have 20% more living space than the poor in France, while the U.S. wealthy have 150% more living space than the wealthy in France.

When you see that, then you realize how OUR poor fare in OUR country with the OTHERS in OUR country.

[Flabbergasted]

16. There are those in foreign countries that would gladly trade the condition

of our poor with that of the condition of the poor in their own country. Where the use of analysis ends is where you actually put the living breathing human being into the equation.

How many poor people into this country are trying to immigrate to Mexico for better living standards?

Take your pick of these two situations:

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. The first picture is NOT a picture of the'poor'.

It is a picture of drought and famine. Completely different condition.

[Flabbergasted]

28. Oh really. You have an unusual definition of poor. If they had money would they be starving?

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. If they have no food or water, yes.

If that woman found a gold bar and a loaf of bread side by side on the ground, but could take only one, which would she choose?



You don't eat money.

I believe it is you who has a twisted idea of poverty. And no understanding of famine.

[Flabbergasted]

31. What would keep a person that has the means from traveling where food is available?

How about these dump scavengers; Are they poor?

[Honeycombe8]

40. It is irrelevant to matters involving OUR poor how others in other countries are faring.

What I'm saying is.....it doesn't matter at all, when discussing whether we should provide healthcare to our poor, that others in other countries do or don't have healthcare. That is not the issue. If you compare one segment of our society with others in another country, then you MUST compare the rest of our society with that other country, in order for the argument to be logical.

We don't pay, for instance, African wages to seamstresses here, and say that's fair, while paying American wages to the janitors. It matters not what seamstresses in Africa get paid, when we're talking about America. What matters is....wage comparisons within the same country and economic structure.

When discussing our poor, the relevant things are the standards in our country. The wages here, the healthcare here, the living space here, the crime here, the education here. Otherwise, you end up like Mexico, where a minor percentage of the citizens are very wealthy, and the majority are poor. If you compare the poor in Mexico with the poor in India, for example, the Mexico poor are doing very well. But that's not the point, is it? That they are better off than some Indians. Because, after all, the rest of the Mexican citizens are not living by Indian standards.

No matter who someone is, or where he lives...you can bank on it that there's someone else in the world worse off, and better off. If someone insists that no one in his country get anything more than the person who is the worst off in the world....then none of us will ever have anything. Food, water, clean air, civil rights....nothing.

[catzies]

2. GOP's new motto: "When losing the game, change the rules."

Folks aren't "poor" if we redefine "poor." Kinda like what the meaning of the word "is," is. :puke:

[Demit]

4. Poor people aren't using those cars for leisure activities. And do they even MAKE color tvs anymore?

People need cars to get to their low-paid jobs which are located in exurban or far-flung suburban corporate campuses. They need two of them because jobs are so badly paying two people have to work to live.

And to compare all poor people living throughout a vast country like the U.S. to people living in ancient cities in Europe is so ridiculous that it proves how disingenuous and deliberately misleading all these 'facts' are.

[kestrel91316]

13. I sure HOPE they still make color TVs, 'cause there is a heckuva demand for them.....

[Demit]

33. Oops, I meant black & white tvs. LOL!

[snappyturtle]

5. I don't know how the Heritage people manipulated the numbers but I find several

markers hard to believe. The three bedroom and one and a half baths and the cable/satellite data. I've seen plenty of poor neighborhoods and taught poor children....they don't have much....they do not eat well. Where in the hell did they come up with these "facts"?

I am especially fond of the "parents don't work much". Wouldn't you like to take a few of these Heritage types and make them live in a one bedroom, one bath home with three junkers in the driveway (maybe one of them will run) and survive for, let's say a year? And, clothe their children, feed them and figure out who's going to be with them after working two jobs at minimum wage. Do they have any idea what's left in a minimum wage pay check?

Who are all the people in the laudromats?? if even the poor have washers and dryers, this doesn't make sense there are so many facilities for washing clothes.

My conclusion: They don't have a clue.

[dajoki]

Yes...

I would love to put them in the situation you describe, I highly doubt that they would last the full year.

And saying they don't work and blaming welfare for poverty really makes my blood boil. These people have no clue as to what causes a person or family to fall into poverty, it can be very complicated and has many variables. But I do believe their kind of thinking and the policies of their ilk has a big role in keeping people stuck in poverty.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. Most doublewides have 3 bedrooms and 1 1/2 baths.

Pretty much a standard. I have a good friend who lives in one. He has six cars. One of them runs. Five of them haven't moved in the 10 years I've known him. He has cable, and a computer. Also has a father on 100% disability who only leaves the house to go to the hospital. He works as a pizza guy, and actually makes $1 over minimum.

Sitting pretty, he is.

[snappyturtle]

14. He won't be sitting pretty when a storm takes his home....and they

depreciate....it's pouring money into a sieve. You won't find many double wides in the inner city where many poor reside. If your friend is happy then I'm happy for him. Does he have children? Health care? As prices go up, gasoline and food, that dollar over minimum won't be enough.

This "sitting pretty"-- are you being facetious? I'm tired tonight and I can't tell.

[RaleighNCDUer]

17. Yeah, just a 'touch' of facetiousness, there.

He is the epitome of rural poverty. Lives in a deteriorating trailer, has a half-dozen cars that aren't worth the cost of towing them away, and works at a low-paying dead end job. But according the the Heritage Foundation, he's doing well. Once a year, when he gets his tax returns, he splurges on something - a couple years ago it was the computer. He maybe COULD work more than 40 hrs, like many of us do (I work @60, and make @ 34K between 2 jobs - and can barely afford a cramped 1 bedroom apt - and I KNOW I am doing well, compared to many). My daughter just spent more than a year unemployed, wound up in a shelter when I couldn't send her any more rent money.

Poverty is a relative thing. If I were to lose my primary job, I'd be on the street in 2 months, with no insurance, unless I cashed in my miniscule 401K early. At my age, that is terrifying.

[snappyturtle]

35. Thank you for being so patient! When I re-read your reply I took

all together differently than I did yesterday! Sorry...my head was pooped.

[pingzing58]

9. Poor people live in apartments or trailer houses it depends on how you define "house."

What a manipulative crock of sh*t is this report.

[snappyturtle]

12. Right...house,apartment,mobile whatever is considered "home". nt

[goodgd_yall]

37. It could be an "inherited" house. One that's been in the family n/t

[JVS]

20. Just because the poor have washers and dryers doesn't mean those washers and dryers are functioning

Hence the laundromat ;-)

[sandnsea]

24. Bedrooms are mandated by law

If you have a boy and girl, any low income housing or Section 8 housing is required to be 3 bedrooms. There are also programs that give people cars so they can get to school or work. Poverty programs reduce poverty by half.

And haven forbid grandma give the grandkids her old tv.

I hate these clueless fuckheads.

[calimary]

42. I would question where, how, and from whom they came by these findings.

Maybe they just took ronald reagan's infamous "welfare queen" scary-story and multiplied it random numbers of times.

Nice how we've come to this - nickel and diming about poverty.

"GOP's new motto: 'When losing the game, change the rules.'" INDEED! Great point, catzies!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. If poor people have it so good, why don't these guys give up their

cushy Heritage Foundation jobs and go get a job at the nearest 7-11?

[TexasBushwhacker]

7. Well, like they say ....

perception is everything! :sarcasm:

[kestrel91316]

11. They would prefer that, in order to be classified as poor, a family

NOT HAVE a stove or fridge????? Jesus wept.

[snappyturtle]

15. Arrogant snobs. nt

[dajoki]

22. All you need to do is get married...

There are many reasons for single mothers and one just happens to be abuse. I suppose they would prefer women and children be abused than have children raised as safely as possible. And this is such a silly statement, I wonder if they actually believe that by getting married it will lift 3/4 out of poverty immediately.

If poor mothers married the fathers of their children, almost three-quarters would immediately be lifted out of poverty.

[Gman]

18. Many of the footnotes refer back to other Heritage Foundation articles

that sometimes cite external government printed reports. If I was a college prof, I wouldn't accept this. But then, no one ever accused the RW of being overly smart anyway.

[baldguy]

25. So, the whole RW noise machine actually *IS* a masturbatory cluster fuck?

Who'd a thunk it?

:hi:

[baldguy]

21. Color TVs? Cars? Those bastards!

I bet most of these so-called "poor" people have running water & indoor plumbing too!

[dajoki]

23. If you have...

indoor plumbing, how can you possibly be poor? Our outhouses suit us hicks just fine.
:sarcasm:

[mitchum]

26. Those Lucky Ducks!

[killbotfactory]

27. Oh! Those Lucky Duckies!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_duckies

[NMMNG]

32. That is so perfect

The RW is so hateful. They should walk a mile in other peoples' shoes and maybe they'll learn something.

[Alcibiades]

30. People who live in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens

also have universal health care, great public transportation, and a much better system of social services in general. And a functional educational system. And a currency that is appreciating against the dollar. And they don't have to go and fight silly imperial wars (except the Londoners). They also have the solace of thousands of years of culture.

Anyway, for supposedly economically-savvy people, it's stupid to make the claim that the poor should be happy because they have larger dwellings available than people in major European capitals. Homes there are small because so many people want to live there. Land is therefore expensive, so even well-to-do folk often live in small apartments. Not so much the case in, say, rural Arkansas: almost nobody, except the people stuck there for family reasons (or because they own property that's always been in the family), wants to live somewhere with no economic opportunity, little culture, etc. As a consequence, you plop the biggest double-wide you can on a cheap plot of land.

I know for certain I'd trade a life in my mother's 2500 square foot double wide in South Carolina (no I don't live with my mother, it's just an example) for a 500 square foot flat in Vienna.

[dajoki]

36. No need for them to go overseas for that comparison...

Ever see the prices and size of NYC apartments?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. And the idea that living standards in Europe are low shows that the writer

hasn't been to Europe recently.

[Perry Logan]

34. You can't believe a word the Heritage Foundation says. They're paid to churn out stats for the Right

Right-wing policies are always wrong--so right-wing "think tanks" were created to fake the science to make right-wing ideas look good.

Since the Right is always wrong, they have to hire people to cook the stats for them. Not one of their reports could pass peer review in a real academic journal.

Not surprisingly, every single study done by the Heritage Foundation--as well as those done by a million right-wing think tanks--have proved that the Right is always right.

What further proof do you need that conservatism is fraudulent down to its stem cells?

[goodgd_yall]

38. Resourefulness

Just because poor people have the TV, w/d, more than one car, etc doesn't mean they paid full price for new ones. My poor friends have things given to them, shop thrift stores, find thrown away things in working order, among other ways to acquire things.

[OnionPatch]

41. Almost anyone in America can come up with appliances

You can get a microwave at the thrift store for $15. Likewise a color TV. I'm a person who has lived in poverty and sure, we had those things. But they were old and used and we bought them at the thrift store or they were given to us by friends who had managed to purchase something newer. We sure as hell couldn't have resold them, as they were usually on their last legs. The real indicator of poverty to me are things like this: Do you have enough money to purchase healthful food? Is there enough to send your kids to school with decent clothes on their backs? Do you have enough health care coverage? What about eye and dental care? Can you afford a pair of glasses for your kid if you need them? Are you able to spend anything at all on a movie? Some music? An occasional outing to the zoo or museum? Can you afford to repair your car when it breaks down? Do you have enough to pay for gasoline to get to work/school? If you say no, you are poor. And if you say no and you are working full time, (like many people I've known) then your employer is ripping you off and taking advantage of your desperate and powerless situation. The Heritage Foundation thinks this is OK in our society. I think it's despicable.

[bascule]

43. I decided to fact check one of their numbers and immediately found a discrepancy

The report claims 80% of poor households have air conditioning. I went to their cited source:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/recs/recs2001/hc_pdf/appl/hc5-3a_hhincome2001.pdf

And pretty much immediately discovered that they are wrong. The actual number is 64%, which is 2,400,000 households off.

If anyone cares I blogged about it here:

http://airconditionedpoor.blogspot.com/2007/10/is-heritage-foundation-full-of-shit.html

[displacedtexan]

44. What a great first post!

Thanks for the link to your blog!

Delilah

[annabanana]

45. Welcome to DU!

So. Their number is a lie, even using their own source...

I suspect that most of their numbers will just reinforce that finding.

[annabanana]

46. A massive steaming pile of elephant shit...

(exactly what I expect from this outfit)

[Hippo_Tron]

47. They lost me with "73% own a microwave"

God forbid that poor people heat up their food.