Biden - The Only One With A Solution

[justinrr1]

Joe Biden is the only candidate with a solution for Iraq and I dont think the passing of his amendment is getting the attention that it should. He is the only candidate that is consistently a straight shooter in saying what he would do in regards to an array of issues. Contrast that with Hillary's constant non answers and I think it shows that we should give much more consideration to Biden for the Dem Nod.

[jillan]

1. Did you hear his interview with Matthews?

I am really beginning to think that Matthews is a Biden supporter.

Infact - Matthews was nudging Biden to sell himself, and Biden didn't get it ! ugh.

[Think82]

2. Matthews basically said

"vote for Biden" ...love it.

[rusty quoin]

3. You know, I have heard him for about a year

talking about breaking up Iraq. I honestly don't know if it will work. I am glad he proposed something, but I am too careful to state that this is the solution.

[jillan]

6. It passed the Senate today 75 - 23 - so alot of people sided with Joe.

[ginchinchili]

8. The honest Sen. Biden has himself stated that there are no guarantees.

It's just that something has to be done and this puts the answers back into the hands of the Iraqis. There are no good solutions. President Bush has screwed this country like no president has ever done before. We may never fully recover from this boondoggle. Bush needs to be held responsible.

[rusty quoin]

9. I absolutely agree. At least he's got something.

[gateley]

12. As he has said himself, he can't guarantee that it's a solution, but it's certainly

worth a try to get the results that the same approach yielded in Bosnia.

And it's not 'breaking it up'

If you're interested, here is a link to a website hosted by young Iraqis who tell their hope for the future of their country. They are of the same opinion as Biden, and actually support his plan.

http://babylonians.wordpress.com/about-2/

Interesting note -- I tried to e-mail them today to let them know the BBB amendment passed, and it was returned to me as undeliverable. Do you suppose it was because I was e-mailing Iraq? Guess I'll call the NSA and ask. :tinfoilhat: (does this hat look good on me?)

[rusty quoin]

16. I will read it. Thanks.

I read it and most of it was comments. A guy from southern California posted on water usage in his state and how it relates to Iraq, and Biden's plan. Thanks again for the site.

[justinrr1]

4. Good Interview

I think Matthews does like Biden a lot! Of course it is not hard to like a candidate he says what he thinks!

[ginchinchili]

5. To pass on Joe Biden in this election would be a mistake

There's no other candidate running more qualified to lead this country at this point in time. Our sound byte, quick fix, flavor of the month culture is churning out candidates that are better at superficial appeal, rather than the best person for the job as had been done historically with better results.

As many DU bloggers know by now, I am strongly opposed to a Hillary Clinton nomination because I don't think she can win the general election, nor do I think she is the candidate best suited for the job. I'm not anti Hillary. I just oppose her nomination.

Even if Hillary was able to win there would only be an escalation of the partisan politics that must come to an end if we are to survive as the great nation we've been for over 200 years.

This country, our United States of America, is in serious trouble. We first have to recognize that and then start doing the hard work to fix it. Hillary Clinton would be just another log on the fire that burns our house down. Joe Biden is a smart pragmatist who can help steer this country through this most difficult time. But again, I strongly believe that if Hillary gets the nomination, we will go through a blistering election worse than anything we've seen thus far, only to end with another Republican president. This precious country of ours can't afford that.

[PatSeg]

15. Oh I think Hillary could win the general

but it would be a gut-wrenching race, with a slim lead. We would be right back to an ineffectual government. We need a big win and a candidate who can actually accomplish something by working with congress. Biden proved today that he can do that.

[Inuca]

32. OK, so Hillary wins the general

then WHAT? That's my main problem with her, what will follow once she is the president.

[jillan]

7. Biden predicted that by the end of this year all of the candidates would sign on to his plan.

Hillary just added her name today.
Dodd as well.
Edwards talked about it being a good idea.
Richardson likes it.
Obama talked about it on the campaign trail.

Is Biden right again?? :P

[gateley]

10. The more I see and hear Biden, the more impressed I become. Regardless of

what question he's asked, he's obviously given the issue a lot of thought -- even (to me) obscure issues.

I agree that he's a straight shooter -- that was one of the first things that caught my attention.

Tonight both Obama and Edwards prefaced a few of their responses with "the American people deserve to know the truth", then continued on with their political non-answers.

Biden just tells the truth right out of the chute -- doesn't need to convince people he's telling the truth -- it's so obvious he is!!

I know he would do right by us all

I am proud to be supporting him.

[CK_John]

11. What no one is talking about, Turkey will invade the Kurd section, Syria/Saudi Arabia will merge

with the Sunni section, and Iran will merge with the Shiite south. Then how are we going to get our oil!

[ginchinchili]

13. We get very little oil from Iraq

[gateley]

14. Don't you think they've considered all the same possibilities we have?

They're the ones with the experience after all. They're not like Bush and just barging in with "the answer" with no real plan on how to achieve it. Let's see how it goes before we predict what will happen in the future.

[Steve_in_California]

19. Your information is off.

Turkey will not invade Kurdistan so long as it remains part of an united Iraq. The Biden plan is geared to create stability throughout the region by carefully balancing the competing interests.

[Think82]

22. Ditto, Steve

If you can get a video of Biden's speech from last friday, you'll get your answers.

[Think82]

21. New Biden supporters:

how about a donation? I'm not on the campaign but I'm sure he could use some more cash from his newly converted followers.

[eridani]

17. Biden for Secretary of State

He could do some good there, and not destroy any more American families with his horrible Bankruptcy Bill.

[Think82]

20. screw that Biden for prez

[eridani]

35. Not with that fucking bankruptcy bill disaster

That's a major dealbreaker for me. He clearly has the right experience to be Secretary of State.

[Steve_in_California]

18. One word, people: R E S U L T S!

Others talk a good game, Joe Biden delivers results!

[Think82]

23. AMEN

This was HUGELY significant and The msm and Russert didn;t mention it at all. What is wrong here?

[Perry Logan]

24. Biden brings new meaning to the word "unelectable."

[mrigirl]

26. what?

the hell are you smoking??? Biden's problem is getting the Democratic nomination, NOT being un-electable in the general election!!! Biden is the onely one capable of defeating the Repubs. When will you guys finally see the truth around here????? Hillary, Obama, and Edwards don't have what it takes. They would all lose and then we'll have another nut in the White House all over again!
Can't people see that even yesterday for example- Biden got that bill passed in Congress w/ a 75-23 vote? Obviously he had some power to sway a majority of Repubs. He is the only candidate capable of making change because he's able to work w/ both parties. We need a Moderate Democrat in office. Biden is the man all the way!!!!

[THUNDER HANDS]

28. he's got a voting record a mile long

if you thought John Kerry had a voting record the GOP could attack, Biden's is probably just as long, if not longer.

and I LIKE Biden.

[mrigirl]

29. Let them go after him-

he's quite capable of defending his votes over the years. He would enjoy it knowing him! He's strong and quick-witted and isn't scripted- he says it as it is. Bring those Repubs on- Biden would demolish them all in any debate and make fools out of every last one of them!!!!

[murbley40]

30. +It is for sure,

when they go after him,he won't two step around it. He 'll confront it head on look them in the eye and explain. Won't that be a novelty!!

[w4rma]

40. What do you think he has to say about his unwavering support for big banks and credit card companies

over his long career in the Senate?

[Froward69]

31. AMEN!!!

Biden is the clear winner last night. he is the only one with ideas and willing to speak them. Biden is the only choice as far as I am concerned.
I urge everyone to send Biden some cash. as I have donated my limit...

https://secure.ga3.org/03/joebiden/nQ7sOhb71wepo?


:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :grouphug:

[Inuca]

33. Because....? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. Where Does America Get The Right To Tell Other Nations How Their Government Should Be Ordered?

Who died and left America God?

[Think82]

37. Read this Dem since Birth:

A few key facts about the Biden amendment:

* The legislation does not tell Iraqis what to do. It speaks only to what U.S. policy should be.
* Federalism is not a U.S. or foreign imposition on Iraq. Iraq's own constitution calls a "decentralized, federal system" and sets out the powers of the regions (extensive) and those of the central government (limited). The Constitution also says that in case of conflict between regional and national law, regional law prevails.
* Federalism is not partition. In fact, it's probably the only way to prevent partition or, even worse, the total fragmentation of Iraq.
* Federalism will not accelerate sectarian cleansing; it's the only way to stop it. Iraqis are already voting with their feet, as yesterday's article in the New York Times demonstrates. Before the surge, Iraqis were fleeing their homes at a rate of about 40,000 month; now, it's about 100,000 a month. Unless Iraqis come to some kind of agreement on sharing power peacefully, the cleansing will continue.

[Steve_in_California]

38. Read this . . . it may change you mind.

Most of you missed this in all the excitement of this past Wednesday. An Iraqi named Muhammed joined the Biden for President group. I had posted to their website information about the BBB amendment and provided a link to B4P site. I think Muhammed’s comments say it all and will bring a deep sense of gratification to all who support Senator Biden. I will now copy to this entry comments made on the blog as the BBB amendment was being voted on.

…….

Steve Fallon Says:

September 26th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Anyone watching C-Span2 right now? The senate is voting on BBB amendment.

Steve Fallon Says:

September 26th, 2007 at 11:42 am
Biden-Brownback-Boxer passes Senate with 78 “aye” votes. This is a watershed moment in American history. Congratulations, Senator Biden, and thank you for all your hard work for this country.

Mohammed Says:

September 26th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
I can’t believe it! This is true right?

Jim Says:

September 26th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Yes. Well, 75 aye votes.

Mohammed Says:

September 26th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
The first realistic decision ever made in the West in regard to Iraq! Thank you Sen. Biden for doing your homework and understanding the history of my country.

[LWolf]

27. No, he's not. The "only candidate with a solution."

Or "the only candidate that is consistently a straight shooter in saying what he would do in regards to an array of issues." That's campaign propaganda, and it's false. There are other candidates with solutions, and there is at least one other "straight shooter." Whether or not you agree with the positions offered by others or not.

Disclaimer: This post is not a criticism of Joe Biden or his position. I don't happen to agree with him on this particular issue, but I have some respect for him. While I can't let "the only candidate with a solution" and "the only candidate that is consistently a straight shooter in saying what he would do in regards to an array of issues." pass unchallenged, I certainly agree that he shoots straighter than Hillary.

I would be happy to see him, and Richardson, and, of course, the straightest shooter on the block, Dennis Kucinich, be given more consideration. I would be thrilled to see them move up far enough to leave the nomination open until my primary limps across the line on May 20th. I would be happy to see any of them defeat Hillary.

I just can't, and won't, tolerate the "only" propaganda. Nothing turns me off faster to a candidate who might otherwise rank higher on my list than campaigning on dishonest propaganda.

[Think82]

36. But he was the first candidate to get the right solution on Iraq

If you don't think Biden's plan is the solution (is debatable, but no other candidate is refuting the plan), then you have a point. It's true I like a lot of the other candidates, but to me Biden is "the straighest shooter out of several fairly good shooters" and a cut above the rest.

Notice how Biden talks about healthcare. Everybody argues about which plan is best, who came up with it first, etc. but Biden makes the BIG ISSUE point that you cannot get an overhaul or reform of the system unless you get Republicans to come over and move forward. No one else would ever say that in a debate.

My point is, Biden frames the issue in a broader sense than everyone, then outlines a SPECIFIC answer on how to fix it. He is at once BROADER AND MORE SPECIFIC while giving answers. Not that the other candidates don't ever do this, but they Biden does this with every answer.

[LWolf]

41. I don't think Biden's plan is the best or only solution.

I'm willing to consider it, and incorporate some or all into a whole solution, but it's not the "only."

That's my point of contention. Tell me that you like his solution the best, and tell me the reasons why. Don't tell me it's "the only" when it's not.

When you say, (bolding mine) "to me Biden is 'the straighest shooter out of several fairly good shooters' and a cut above the rest," I am interested in thinking about what you've said. You framed your evaluation as just that, YOUR evaluation, not undisputed fact, and you've done it in a way that respects the processes others go through to make their own evaluations.

As I said, I have some differences with Biden, but I also appreciate his strengths, and you've highlighted some. I do believe he is, for the most part, "shooting straight." I often agree with his positions, just not on this one.

Since you seem willing to frame a discussion, and your thoughts, in a respectful way, here is a deep concern I have about Biden. I'd like to hear your thoughts; they may not relieve my concern, but I'm listening with an open mind:

The bankruptcy bill. You know, the corporate-friendly bill that Biden supports. Right now, most of the corruption rampant in our government stems from corporate $$ and influence. That corruption is eroding our Constitutional protections, our voice, democratic principles, and social and economic justice in our country. Removing that corruption, and that corporate influence, has to be at the top of the list. It's behind Iraq. It's behind Diebold. It's behind the push to leave insurance companies at the health care table. It's behind every crucial issue. Electing a corporate-friendly Democrat to the WH will not achieve the primary goal: wresting the government away from corporate influence and cleaning up the corruption.

This is more important than a disagreement about how to end Iraq, because I see this as the force driving our presence to begin with.

Is there any reasonable justification for Biden's support for the bankruptcy bill, and is there any reasonable evidence that he would put removing corporate influence in government at the top of a priority list?

[Steve_in_California]

39. Dennis prevaricates (don't both looking it up; it means lies)

How many times have we all heard Congressman Kucinich say that he can win the election? Not may . . . not, if enough people vote for me . . . not a modest, honest mand clear-eyed assessment of his chances . . . but with no humility whatsoever this man boldly lies to his audience in tellig them he can and will win the Presidency. While Dennis has many talents and much to contribute, no one over the age of 13 actually believes this guy has a real shot at winning the nomination, let alone the general election.

In my book, "sales talk" or "campaign rhetoric" are no different that telling lies for effect. The people of Cleveland tried to re-call him right after he took office and they finally bid him good riddance after only a year as mayor." His ties to the Cleveland underworld were well known. He is your proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing.

[LWolf]

42. Look these up: snide, derogatory, false, propaganda, misdirection.

Clever little way to suggest ignorance without calling someone out, that (don't both looking it up) thing. Of course, you'd think someone who thinks that the use of the word "prevaricate" raises their IQ by a few degrees might learn how to spell "bother." Or "telling."

This isn't the first time I've seen this assertion from you. I just haven't responded to what is obvious drivel (don't bother looking it up, it means "childish, silly, or meaningless talk or thinking; nonsense; twaddle.")

Since you've directed it to me personally, though, I'll point out that you are prevaricating. You are claiming that a statement about possibility is a lie.

When Dennis Kucinich says that he "can" win, that is a statement of possibility. It's accurate. Anyone on the ballot "can" win, if they get enough votes.

When you say, "but with no humility whatsoever this man boldly lies to his audience in tellig them he can and will win the Presidency," you are lying. Here is a direct quote from Kucinich, with link. This one is from '04, it's true; it's the first one I found when I googled. I've heard him repeat this numerous times:

<snip>

The Monument: Can you win?

Dennis: The short answer to that is of course I can win if people vote for me. The more detailed answer is if I win every state Al Gore won plus Ohio I win the election.

My Congressional district includes the suburb of Parma, Ohio. It's
one of the original homes of the Reagan Democrats. I carried it by 74 percent in 2002. Being a success there is a better predictor of national success than holding statewide office in a liberal stronghold like Vermont or Massachusetts.

Nationwide my campaign is bringing voters back into the Democratic Party. I beat an incumbent Republican for mayor in 1977. I beat an incumbent Republican for state senator in 1994, overcoming the national right-wing tide. I beat an incumbent Republican for U.S. Congress in 1996. I will win
Ohio and I will beat an incumbent Republican for President in 2004.

Of course, he'd have to be on the ticket in the general election to determine whether or not this particular prediction is accurate, wouldn't he? My point is that his response, when asked if he can win, is consistently, "Of course I can win if people vote for me." He gets asked this question frequently, and I've heard this same response frequently.

Which makes your statement pure anti-Kucinich campaign propaganda.

When you say that he "can't" win, that is a statement of probability. You are saying that a Kucinich win is improbable. You may be basing that on data, or it may just be an opinion you are couching as fact.

To continue the vocabulary lesson, possibility and probability are not the same thing:

possibility: "capability of happening"
probability: "a measure of likelihood"

Since possibility and probability are not the same thing, your statement is, in fact, false. Thus engaging you in the same activity you accuse Kucinich of: lying.

Ironically, your lie is given for the same reason you decry in your post:

"In my book, "sales talk" or "campaign rhetoric" are no different that telling lies for effect."

You are using the lie to campaign against Dennis Kucinich; a lie for "effect." You follow it with a spin on his term as Mayor that has been thoroughly, and repeatedly, debunked.

You can, of course, support whomever you'd like in the primary, and campaign for that candidate. I don't really care who you are supporting. If you are going to spend your time smearing Kucinich instead of engaging his actual positions and record, I'll be happy to repeat the vocabulary lesson in rebuttal.

All the posturing in the world doesn't override a false premise.

[murbley40]

34. kick