Who won tonight's debate?

[jefferson_dem]

If you watched the debate, who do you think won?

[Purveyor]

1. A little early aren't we? The fucking debate isn't even over yet... eom

[rucky]

3. You're taking a "lightning round" seriously? n/t

[rucky]

2. Obama. n/t

[rucky]

5. Unless we're judging on entertainment value, then Gravel.

[MadBadger]

4. Jumpin the gun arent we?

though unless Obama says that the holocaust didnt happen, sometime before this ends, I say him.

[Nedsdag]

6. You should've included this poll question:

"Who cares? The MSM will say Hillary won anyway."

[rurallib]

7. Russert I'd say. He got the most RW talking points in.

I am getting so I hate to see him.

[minkyboodle]

10. been there for awhile

:) welcome to my pov on him for the last 4 years,
the man is the worst "main stream media" figure I
can think of, mainly because he still has that
great reputation with many, how I can't figure.

[smoogatz]

50. To some extent a Dem debate probably should be about answering

those talking points, no? Whoever's most adept at that would probably do the best job in the general, IMO.

[minkyboodle]

8. Biden IMO

Although Obama will come off looking better thanks to
the drubbing that Hillary took. As usual the Kooch got
the best lines in. Oh this just in Timbo handed Hillary
redemption by his vile gotcha attempt. Way to go sweaty
Timmy you are a disgrace to your program's history.

[saltpoint]

9. Good performances abound when you gather good people to start with.

Gov. Richardson appeared to be quite prepared tonight, I thought.

John Edwards might have won some converts also. I like the earnestness in his face and voice.

Obama is going places, people.

I give a slight edge this evening to Joe Biden. Watch this space.

[calmblueocean]

11. I'm really liking Biden.

Biden's foreign policy experience comes through in a way that totally sets him apart from the rest of the pack, and frankly, I like how he can tell a joke. I think a lot of moderate Republicans could get behind Biden in ways they just won't get behind some of the other candidates. He's the most electable of our candidates, I think, and he's got the experience needed to deal with the foreign policy disaster handed to the next president.

[saltpoint]

12. Sometimes -- not all that often but sometimes -- on the blogs there comes a

post that's clear, sound, pragmatic, circuit-breaking, and worth keeping as concise synopsis.

Bam. Yours is one of those tonight.

Thank you for that.

I'm for John Edwards, with Joe Biden a very respectable second choice.

[PatSeg]

21. Pragmatic???

We don't hear too much of that around here lately. It is refreshing to know there are people who are watching this political process with some clarity and common sense.

Of course, there is always YOU OC!

[saltpoint]

24. ! Hi, tsegat01.

[PatSeg]

28. Hey there OC

You can call me Pat. Tsegat01 is SO formal!

You always bring great energy to any discussion.

[saltpoint]

30. Oh yeah!?! Well so do you! (sticks tongue out). People around here

can't turn around without your saying something intelligent and pertinent and uplifting to public dialogue.

What the hell kind of attitude is THAT!!?

[PatSeg]

33. I'm trying to contain myself, but I can't control

those rational urges I get!!!

You made me laugh out loud. Now you can put your tongue back in your mouth!!!

[saltpoint]

34. LOL!

I look up and see the number of votes Biden is receiving so far in this poll.

That's a landmark showing for Joe Biden on DU, I believe.

And perhaps a trend for Iowa.

[PatSeg]

37. I just noticed that too!

How things have changed in just a few weeks!

[saltpoint]

38. Yep. It might be fun to keep a few of these threads and check in on them

compared with actual events in a month or two -- or three.

December 12th, say -- it will be here before we know it -- and I just feel that the polls as they stand now are not going to look that way on the 12th of December.

[PatSeg]

39. Good idea

Another time capsule!

[demommom]

13. Thanks for this post.

I agree with everything you said.

[jillan]

17. I've been supporting Biden for 4 years - it always makes me so

happy to get another supporter on board:toast:

[AtomicKitten]

14. Obama was ill which affected his delivery, but his content was fine.

I don't think anyone can call a clear winner for anything other than partisan purposes.

[ncteechur]

15. I thought Obama was the "blended" candidate. All of his answers

were a blend of what those who spoke before him said.

[gateley]

20. I got that impression, too but to be fair, he might have answered the same

way if he had been asked first. I doubt it, but just to be fair...

[ChiciB1]

16. Problem... Tweety Talking Afterwords Got A Message From

"Stretch" & Todd, that "The Establishment in D.C." hate Edwards!! They wouldn't answer "the who they were" but did say this is WHY no matter what, Hillary will be the one!!

Even stating that Edwards could take Iowa AND NH and it still won't make a difference, because the "powers that be" just won't let it happen!

And there it is, all wrapped up in a bow. They basically said, JE could stand on his head and spit wooden nickels and he still WON'T get the nod!! We are sooooooooo being MANIPULATED, and OUR vote doesn't even count as Democrats, if "THEY" whoever "THEY" ARE don't want it to happen!

IT SUCKS BIG TIME!!

[AmBlue]

18. All the more reason...

to fight back. "They" are right. "They" hate Edwards. And they hate him because he would shake up the beltway status quo more than any other candidate other than Kucinich. I'm routing for Edwards/Kucinich ticket myself.

The more the establishment can't stand a candidate means they are exacly who we need to be pushing for.

NGU

[ChiciB1]

19. HOWE DO WE STOP THEM?? I'm NOT Giving Up... But They Just

said, he won't win, no matter what!

[gateley]

23. Your last sentence holds a lot of wisdom. nt

[jillan]

22. But as an Edwards supporter - you should be even more happy tonite.

They all said that Edwards won...and yet they feel that way.
So - he must've done really, really good!

[Usrename]

47. Edwards might still have a chance.

If he'd only pledge his allegiance to AIPAC. So far he (and Kucinich) haven't done that, where all the rest have.

[smoogatz]

52. "They" don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

The press corpse takedown only works when voters aren't paying attention and when candidates passively accept the RNC-concocted narratives the press is mouthing about them. I doubt it'll happen this time around; Dems have learned a lot from the Gore/Dean/Kerry takedowns, and are figuring out how to respond forcefully to obvious RNC talking points. Any candidate who allows him/her self to be victimized by the wingnut-friendly media deserves to lose.

[gateley]

25. Here's a link to an MSNBC viewer response thread -- I think you'll find it interesting

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3553534&mesg_id=3553534

Edited to post the CORRECT link, hopefully.

[ChiciB1]

27. I Saw It... But When Statements Like That Are Made, I Don't Think It

matters that much. Edwards has been on target about so many things, and has hit back on so many issues and STILL rated THIRD!!

We shall see, but do we even count??

[gateley]

31. Oh -- I think you might be thinking of a different MSNBC poll -- this

is an interactive one comparing how the candidates were viewed before and after the debate.

Edwards did very well.

And third in a race where the other two are potentially the first woman or first African American president -- is an impressive showing!

Try being a Biden supporter -- our guy isn't even mentioned a whole lot. And we of course feel HE's been on target and has hit back on so many issues, too. Frustrating, I know.

Check out the thread link to the thread I posted and see if this is indeed different from the one you were thinking of.

[ChiciB1]

45. Late Reply... But I Did See The Same Poll.. Edwards Came Out In

front and Biden did Super. I too really really like Biden, and always have liked him. I realize how you feel. Still, given that Edwards is one of the "so-called" top three, we have MSM stating on NATIONAL TV that he simply can't win, no matter what.

I have nothing against Obama, but certainly think Biden is MUCH more qualified than he is. Obama IS the "newbie" and HAS garnered stupendous attention, but to me, it's not going to last. Even so, as the assumed NUMBER TWO, and the one who raises the most money, tell me WHY it's ALL Hillary, ALL THE TIME!

What they said last night simply showed me why. Powers That Be, work over-time to make it so! And it raises my ire even more and is just once more reason that I have major problem with Hillary. I don't happen to think she's the most qualified. She's riding on a different train from all the rest, and that train is being provided by "the powers that be!"

It IS NOT fair, and most certainly goes against the grain of being Democratic. Until these past 7 years, I felt America was a Democracy... that thought fades away almost every day because not only do I see such Apathy from the masses, and because I see stagnation and stubbornness in D.C.!

[Clark2008]

26. There was a debate?

Honestly.

I knew this and didn't give a flying flip.

Do you think real people did?

[PatSeg]

29. Don't know

but it DID follow Countdown, which was good.

[Think82]

32. Biden clearly wins every time and the media doesn't even

mention his name. Pay attention, people!

Biden breaks out

[PatSeg]

36. Matthews is paying attention

He told him today pre-debate, that he "is a great man". I'm anticipating a snowball effect, especially after today's senate vote on Biden's Iraq resolution. The frontrunners are winding down, just as Biden is winding up.

[Think82]

42. Could be a sea change for Biden a turning point

This debate combined with his Iraq bill passing today (WHY was this not given more coverage) LOOK OUT frontrunners

[Robson]

49. Forthright and knowledgeable

I agree Biden came across forthright and knowledgeable. Edwards also did a very respectable job. Even though I really like some of Gravels ideas (like his national initiative) he's gone over the edge and is now there only for entertainment value.

Honestly I have this feeling that I can't trust Hillary. She comes across as devoid of any position except the direction that the political winds of the moment are blowing. While she is far smarter than Bush I can see her getting us involved in Iran at the behest of Israel and their strong supporters.

[Cameron27]

35. Biden

Crisp, straight forward answers always win with me.

[jillan]

40. : - ]

[Steve_in_California]

41. Biden

The guy won the debate even before he answered a question. His senate victory changed the direction of the war. Getting 26 staunch Republicans to vote against continuing the Bush policy in Iraq is just the kind of statecraft America is looking for in a president.

Not taking anything away from Edwards: he was impressive, effective and insightful. Yet, according to the MSNBC viewer poll, while Edwards was the winner, Biden had the largest point jump comparing his ratings before and after the debate. Clinton and Obama lost ground. Gravel, Dodd and Kucinich gained ground. Richardson went down the tubes.

[Froward69]

48. The Obama crowd got up this morning

and skewed the results... the difference from last night to this morning is remarkable!

[Think82]

43. JOE-MENTUM

Go, Joe, go!

[snowbear]

57. Would Biden supporters really want to use that old slang?

Even if it's a different Joe, the phrase "Joe-Mentum" is too much of a reminder of that creep who lost the Democratic senate nod.

[Nimrod2005]

44. K

[Froward69]

46. I wonder when Edwards people will

WAKE UP AND REALIZE HE IS A USED CAR SALESMAN! I MET HIM once and he is two different people, one real life and one on tv.
Biden is real on and off tv.
https://secure.ga3.org/03/joebiden/nQ7sOhb71wepo ?

[saracat]

53. What a bunch of crap! I have met John numerous times and he is one of the most sincere and

likable people one could ever meet. he genuinely cares for others.I like Biden but he is a brilliant man who has a real problem with his ego.

[Think82]

54. Sara

Exactly how is Biden's ego bigger than any of the other candidates? I think he's actually humble for how incredibly smart he is.

[saracat]

56. If is his attitude.He makes sure people know he thinks he is better and smarter than anyone else.

None of the other candidates, including Hillary , praise themselves as often as Biden. Actually I like the guy but the pomposity is a problem.

[Think82]

58. problem: he is better and smarter than everyone else, what would you have him do?

[saracat]

59. Even if he thinks so, he doesn't win support by saying so.It comes across as obnoxious. Biden has

had this problem for years. He needs to learn of bit of people skills.

[Byronic]

51. Hmmmmm

I am a huge Joe Biden fan, but I think John Edwards just edged this one. Chris Dodd was impressive too. I would be delighted if any of them became the nominee.

Still, I'm picturing Biden debating Giuliani.......Poor Rudy.

[snowbear]

55. 50-something replies and not one person who selected HRC explained why...

Too f'n hilarious!!!

That's because she lost her ass on stage last night inbetween taking a pounding from Edwards and trying like hell to cackle it off.

If there are winners and losers in debates, I'd give the win to Edwards and a big fat loss to Gravel.

[saracat]

60. It is always the same with some posters,Interesting is it not that Hillary also "refuses" to explain...

or answer anything?

[Clintonista2]

62. She was articulate, charming, and intelligent, per usual.

[doc03]

61. The Republican candidate whomever that

will be. If the Democrats can't promise to have the troops out of Iraq by 2013 we may as well just elect GWB for a third term.

[MetalCanuck]

63. For what Gravel did to Clinton,.

He gets my vote.

[snowbear]

64. Too funny! Here's a picture for you:

I live in Alaska and of course, Gravel had quite a long and distinguished career here.

Here is an old photo I found on the net of him...

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

1976 - Senator Gravel volunteers on KNOM Radio in Nome, Alaska

[ncteechur]

65. If I were to base my vote solely on the basis of who has won the debates

I would probably vote for Biden. I wish he were doing a bit better in the polls and
I wish he hadn't voted the way he did on the bankruptcy bill.

[Ninga]

66. Well, the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings wasn't his finest hour either.

[ncteechur]

67. You are correct but as I said in another post, at least he's actually doing some

leading on Iraq. He's backing up his talk with legislation.