A Word of Advice to DU ABDers from a Dean DUer

[NashVegas]

Today would not be a good day to switch tactics and try to 'make nice,' with those whose candidate you've spent the last 8 months trashing in GD and GD2004.

Today would not be a good day to have an attitude adjustment towards the candidate whom you took every opportunity to find flaw with and blow it up to the size of Texas in an attempt to pry one group of DUers from a vote for the candidate of their first preference, and dissuade anyone who might have merely been leaning that way from continuing to do so.

Some have already started, and frankly, your pitiful attempts at reconciliation ring as hollow as the Johnny Bravo suit that stands waiting for the eventual nominee.

[ShaneGR]

1. OK, but I was never a part of that ABD thing...nt

[EXE619K]

3. That's not completely true....

Yes, for the past couple of weeks, you have been and I'll vouch for that.

But, prior to the above mentioned time frame....you were one of the most critical opposition against Dean.

It's true!

[burning bush]

2. Damn straight Crisco

this open arms shit I've been seeing is laughable. Those same arms once held knives in hand, and now they want to make nicey nice?

I feel an urge to spit.

[Maddy McCall]

4. LOL!

[burning bush]

7. Exactly

laugh away. Thank you. :)

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HuskerDem]

31. There's a couple I have a bucket of salt just waiting for

Ones that really earned it.

[WilliamPitt]

6. The alternative to the fighting

would have been open, unquestioned acceptance of the ascendancy of Dean. That isn't how politics is done in America. We haven't done it that way for about 227 years. I'm sorry you feel hurt, and I have no interest in trying to cajole you over to the Kucinich camp because of your stated desire above. But if you feel you've been treated poorly these last months, well, that's the way it works in politics.

[goobergunch]

11. Well, certain posters were trying to force a Kerry ascendancy

Which isn't how politics is done here either.

[WilliamPitt]

12. ...and certain posters were trying to force a Dean ascendancy

while certain others were doing the same with Clark and Kucinich and Edwards and Graham...

This is how politics is done.

[goobergunch]

15. However

some posters criticized Dean supporters for one thing and then did themselves the same thing when Kerry became the nominee.

[WilliamPitt]

18. So it's a he-said-she-said issue

That never happens in political arguments.

[XanaDUer]

25. Please cite examples:

Each person feels that the candidate they have chosen in the best person for the job.

Why is it different because you happen to disagree with them?

That IS not how politics is done anywhere. :shrug:

[meegbear]

14. And certain Dean supporters haven't?

[goobergunch]

17. I'm not saying that. (n/t)

[The Magistrate]

34. Then What Are You Saying, Mr. Punch?

For weeks in this forum, there was a tremendous volume of comments declaring that if Gov. Dean did not receive the nomination, the nominee of the Party ought to be abandoned, and victory by the criminals of the '00 Coup courted as punishment for the defeat of Gov. Dean. This needed strenuous opposition, and received it; those who made such comments surely expected nothing else.

The attacks leveled against first Gen. Clark, and then against Sen. Kerry, by the most vehement supporters of Gov. Dean here, have been concocted of distortion and insinuendo. Persons who supported those candidates, and persons who are simply interested in victory over the criminals of the '00 Coup come the fall, have naturally opposed these smears with some heat, and again, it is hard to imagine those who bruited them about expected any other reaction.

My own position has always been that, regardless of my own preference in candidates, the candidate of the Party come the fall will receive my unflagging support. That seems to me the best position, and one that all here ought to adopt.

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[NashVegas]

30. The Alternative to Fighting is Discussion

Fighting may very well be how politics is done in America, but it was not how things were done on DU until a group of people decided to make it so.

Don't believe me? Go to the GD archives and notice the glaring difference in the thread starters that discussed the candidates. The overwhelming majority of threads about Dean started as a post expressing admiration and curiosity. Compare that to the posts of others that were little more than campaign announcements & talking points.

In the last two weeks there was one Clark supporter who was honest enough to admit that when he first came to DU it was more like Dean Underground, and that needed to be blocked.

Ah, well.

The point of the originating post was not intended to spark a they said/we said mash. It was merely to state the obvious: for those who actively worked to trash Dean on DU to turn around now and post plattitudes would be nothing more than an excersize in vanity and a waste of bandwidth.

[WilliamPitt]

35. Fighting wasn't done on DU?

Surely you jest. I've been here since May of 2001, and I can tell you that fighting has been the breakfast of champions since the day I got here.

[HuskerDem]

37. Do you think everyone who did not agree with you was "trashing" Dean?

What you call the obvious was only obvious to you. I have a different obvious.

I remember a large number of posts started by Dean supporters perpetuating baseless rumors, republican tinfoil hat theories and snarky misinformation about every candidate but Dean.

I stayed off of the positive Dean threads because I don't believe in trolling other peoples positive threads just to be a parade rainer.

BUT

I certainly remember ALOT of trolls in ours and I would say that 90% of them had a DEAN for America avatar and that's the damn truth.

That's my obvious.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

8. as a Dean DU'er

i can recognize that all is fair in politics. You think it was a personal thing? Nobody on DU was responsible for Dean's tumble. There are a lot of other culprits out there, Dean being one of them, that played a role in his ultimate disappearance.

[Zomby Woof]

9. no worries

I still plan on kicking his corpse around as long as his supporters insist on dragging it through this forum. ;-)

[WilliamPitt]

10. ...oh man...

I felt that from here.

:)

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maddy McCall]

16. Puh-leeeez

Self- annihilation, but no assassination.

[goobergunch]

19. Kicking people's corpses?

Sounds a little threatening to me.

[Maddy McCall]

23. You have GOT to be joking...

LOL!

[Zomby Woof]

21. I didn't think a metaphor needed explaining

Anyone who thinks that was literal... :eyes:

Dean is politically dead. Thinking I implied otherwise is just... :wtf:

[Donkeyboy75]

20. Jesus,

You've got to be kidding. I'm a huge Dean supporter, and have donated more than I could afford to his campaign. The corpse is a metaphor, obviously. Quit trying to find something to get offended about. Dean lost because he made some errors that happened at the wrong time and were overblown by the media.

[XanaDUer]

24. Your post is off the beam...

Eom.

[Missy Vixen]

33. Wow, Zomby Troof,

that was fairly brutal.

>I still plan on kicking his corpse around as long as his supporters insist on dragging it through this forum. ;-)<

I'm sure that anyone pointing out that doing the same to your guy when he finally drops out would be less than charitable. I also think that your candidate, whose dedication to peace and to community is well-documented, would find the above less than humorous as well.

Julie

[Zomby Woof]

41. I think for myself

I don't write my posts with a "WhatWouldDennisDo?" mantra at hand. My task is to support him, not imitate him. I am too much the freethinker for that kind of behavior.

Plus, DK isn't a phony populist, nor pro-establishment, faux-grassroots, or a tool of the AMA like Dean. Dean was the frontrunner we were told to drop out and get behind before xmas. I extended the olive branch with sincerity once, and was told to fuck off. So yeah, I am enjoying this, and in my own schadenfreude way, I am enjoying the implosion of the con man from Vermont's campaign.

He will be a smaller footnote to history than even Harold Stassen.

[jansu]

22. No, today and possibly any day

would not be a good time to go trawling for your candidate. Throughout 2003 Dean received only 49% favorable reporting while the other candidates received 78% favorable reporting, and still he was 20 points ahead.

He was doing better than fine, until he told Chris Matthews that he would take back the media for the American people, to get the control out of the hands of the 6 owners of all the media. Since then, the media has done nothing but bash him. He was still in second place and yet, you heard nothing but "He's a loser, why doesn't he quit"? The third, fourth and fifth place candidates were not being pushed into quitting.

Yesterday, Kerry received far less than the 40 points he was leading by, finishing only 6 points ahead of Edwards. Did anyone say, "Wow, he really did badly"? Or, Dean went from @4% to finish @18%, did anyone say that was a pretty good comeback? No, it was all about his quiting!

The White House told you that they would love to run against Dean! And you believed them. Have they ever lied about anything else?

Today is a very sad day for this country, if Dean does not go on! If you remember your history, there have been other candidates which did badly up to this point, and then turned it around. Bobby Kennedy comes to mind. I am begging Dean not to quit!

But, don't come asking for me to support your candidate! I will vote ABB, but I had hoped for a real change in our country, not just more of the same, by someone different!

I will be putting all of my effort into changing the makeup of the Congress.

[HuskerDem]

26. What do you say to the NBD'ers? And empty Johnny Bravo suit?

What's up with that? You think that's a great way to communicate your message?

I have defended Dean and I have found criticism of Dean. He was not my candidate. I had my reasons. This is a debate forum. I have always been mindfully of the contribution he has made and the importance of his candidacy. Those are no small things. He just wasn't my choice.

Guess what, I didn't get my way either. Sure I cried. But I'm getting over it. Work it out.

The sun came up today and Bush is still in our White House. Let's go get the son of a bitch. You don't have to hop on any bandwagons, but you can still help get that monkey out. Don't like any of the other candidates? Give your money to moveon.org so we can plaster the airwaves with the TRUTH about Bush. It's a noble cause.

[XanaDUer]

29. Good post, Husker Dem.

:hi:

[HuskerDem]

40. Thanks LibertyChick - The most important goal remains..........

GET BUSH OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!

[bobthedrummer]

27. One can never get used to the taste of bile.

This independent is ABB even if I puke.
BTW, I voted for Dennis Kucinich along with 854 other voters in my County yesterday.
But I was paying close attention to Howard Dean and defended him from time to time here in the threads that reeked of bile.
It's realpolitik time to get rid of Bush-ABB.

[John_H]

28. Is the Dean campaign trashing Dean supporters?

"A few days earlier, meanwhile, two top officials for the Democratic National Committee traveled to Burlington, Vt., to meet with Roy Neel, the Dean campaign's chief executive. Their agenda, diplomatically stated but unmistakable, was to find out whether and how Dean would harness his network of highly motivated grass-roots activists and small contributors on behalf of the national party and the eventual nominee, according to people familiar with the session...."


99 percent of Dean supporters will vote for the nominee. Howard Dean is a dyed in the wool Dem who is ABB and will work hard to rid America of Chimp. I see absolutely no need to make nice with the one percent of Dean Supporters who intend to enable chimp by denying his opponent a vote. I say Bring. It. On.

[Paulie]

32. Dean lost me with his disrespect to Dennis

Why did he feel it necessasary to keep walking all over Dennis? He corrected himself ONCE, then continued the lie.

So sorry, I don't feel bad about him being in the position he's in. He helped himself abit into it.

I feel bad that he was SETUP to fail by the powers that want the safe canidate. I think it's dirty that people inside his campaign undercut him.

Instead of being a mensch, he wanted to be the only, and treated Dennis like crap.

[bobthedrummer]

36. Nothing fazes Dennis though

in politics, that's why he is in this race until the convention!
I'm sorry Wisconsin didn't get him some delegates yesterday.
Howard Dean got at least 11 delegates here yesterday!

[DrFunkenstein]

38. I Opposed Dean, But With A Big Difference

I made it absolutely clear that I would support him once it became clear he was the one. For months, he was my #2 guy, but after awhile the nastiness wore me down. And, honestly, the more I got to see him on the campaign trail, the more anxiety I had about his candidacy.

I think it's cool if you want to support Edwards now. But I think we've passed the point where we should continue eating each other up.

As a final note, I want to make it clear that there was a real difference in the levels of civility I had with Dean supporters. There were some decent, sincere people who just coulnd't get past the IWR. I always maintained a very respectful tone with these people, and often carried on very friendly correspondence with them through private messages.

And then there were the ones who played nasty. I'm not going to apologize for the times I went 10 rounds with these guys as they hurled names and planted rumors. I hope the Dean people don't see themselves as so much a single unit that they will defend everyone who happens to defend Dean.

I'm sorry if you think "playing nice" is some sort of cynical ploy, but I genuinely welcome people from every candidate into the Kerry camp. I have no intention of making them feel the slightest bit awkward about wanting to move forward with the Democratic Party.

[progressivebydesign]

39. This thread is confusing to me... N/T

[Moderator]

42. Locking

1. If you start a thread in this forum, you must present your opinion in a manner that is not inflammatory, which respects differences in opinion, and which is likely to lead to respectful discussion rather than flaming. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether a thread topic is inflammatory. Extremely inflammatory or inappropriate topics will be deleted rather than locked, and the thread's author will receive a warning.