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I owe the Edwards folks an answer on the 'He wrote the Patriot Act' thing

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:10 AM
Original message
I owe the Edwards folks an answer on the 'He wrote the Patriot Act' thing
So here is a press release from Edwards, dated October 26, 2001:

http://edwards.senate.gov/press/2001/oct26-pr.html

SENATE PASSES STRONG ANTITERRORISM LAW
October 26, 2001

WASHINGTON–The Senate on Thursday passed a sweeping antiterrorism bill that expanded the wiretapping and electronic surveillance authority of the FBI and imposed stronger penalties for harboring or bankrolling terrorists.

"This will strengthen our nation's ability to prevent future terrorist attacks," said Senator John Edwards, who worked on the legislation as a member of the Judiciary Committee and the Select Committee on Intelligence.

(snip)

Under the law in force before September 11, when highjacked planes crashed into the Pentagon and World Trade Center, federal courts could authorize many electronic surveillance warrants only in the place where the court had jurisdiction. If the target of an investigation lived in Charlotte, for example, but the subject of the warrant was technically an Internet Service Provider located in Raleigh, the warrant wouldn't let agents track the electronic trail of email records or web surfing activities. The new law lets the court overseeing an investigation issue valid warrants nationwide.

Another common-sense change gives law enforcement officers and the intelligence community the ability to share intelligence information with each other. "We simply cannot prevail in the battle against terrorism if the right hand of our government has no idea what the left hand is doing," Senator Edwards said.

...more...

==========

The Thursday in question was October 25, the day the PATRIOT Act was passed. The actual Act is dated October 24:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Did he invent the internet too?
Damn him...

I see the PA like I see NAFTA and other collosal f'ups by Dems, they can be repealed.

Mistakes must be acknowledged.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. To be clear: THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK AGAINST EDWARDS
Let others do that. I said late last night he helped draft it, and was asked for the cite. I am providing it. That's it.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Oh. Were we just vetting last night?
Not that it bothers me in the slightest. I'm still voting for Dennis:-)

PS: Isn't the PA just a slightly (My word) beefed up Clinton law?

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. Thank you.
eom
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SerpentX Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. They're all on the hook for something.
Kerry : IWR
Edwards : Patriot Act
Kucinich : Global Gag Rule
Sharpton : Don't get me started.

Let the one who is without sin ...
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. This is NOT an attack against Edwards
Let others do that. I said late last night he helped draft it, and was asked for the cite. I am providing it. That's it.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Thank you for being *factual*, Will.
As the article makes clear, he helped draft the legislation, along with everyone else on the Judiciary and Intelligence committees. Far too often here at DU, people make it sound like Edwards did this single-handedly.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. In a press release on Ocrober 27, Senator Edwards
said, "The PATRIOT Act is mine. Mine!! All mine!!! MMMWWWAAAAHH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!"

:)

(kidding, of course)
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lovedems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
28. Well, the DOJ is single-handedly responsible for letting this bad
peice of legislation become worse.

I am really torn because I hate the PA act but good god, look at the people's fears the republicans were playing off of. I am torn because I totally salute and support Cleland for his stance of not supporting it and standing on principle. Look where that got him...the boot. We lost some much needed house and senate seats due to this bunk peice of legislation and we lost control of the senate and while I would have preferred all dems not back it, would that have been akin to mass political suicide by the democratic party? I don't know. I don't want to make any justifications for the PA but I am just wondering what would have happened to democrats and the party had they not come out in some (underline some) support of it? Maybe someone could nicely answer my question.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. You said he "wrote" the act. Which provisions did he "write"?
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Above is an Edwards press release. It is unambiguously taking credit
for working on the bill. 'Working on the bill' means helping to draft it. You can beef with me all you want, but this is a press release from his Senate office.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Working on the bill meant taking things out, and ensuring things went in.
Which parts do you think Edwards authored?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Incidentally, working on THIS bill meant taking lots of stuff OUT which
no Dem authored.

That's what they said in their testimony on this bill.

So, would it be more honest to go around and say "Edwards" authored this bill, or that Dems on this committee made sure that lots of things Ashcroft wanted were removed, and that a sunset provision was included?
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. You are so right. Except with some one issue supporters
their issue is ABKerry. But of course that is their right.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Actually....
This makes me MORE likely to vote for Kerry than for Edwards.

But I don't think I'll vote for either of them in the General. The Kerry fans on here saw to that.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. How do you know who the "Kerry fans" are on an anonymous board? n/t
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. avatars, screennames, and reputation
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. All of which add up to prove something...
...or nothing. Anonymous board and all.

Don

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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I'm an Edwards supporter. I'm not hiding that fact.
I'm not the only one not hiding their preferences.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. If you say so that is alright with me
I just hope that if I choose to remain skeptical that is alright with you? What do you say? Fair deal?

Don

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MSchreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Kick
:kick:
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
13. He helped draft the restrictions
in the Patriot Act and the sunset clauses on the Patriot Act is what I read about his participation.

His role was to try to contain the fervor of the Repubs and Ashcroft who wanted it to be actually much broader & far-sweeping than it turned out.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Do you have a cite for that?
The tone of the press release above suggests he is taking his share of the credit for the Act. I'll be happy to admit I am wrong if what you say is true. Do you have a cite I can look to?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Look at the floor debate when the bill was being drafted.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. ...and then come back and appologize.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:07 AM
Original message
Floor debate Mr. Pitt
Take a look, I believe you'll be wise enough to repost about it then.
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KC21304 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. Sort of like Kerry tried to do with IWR.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Preaching to the choir.
The choir understands who the world works.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. Edwards's wife said he authored no part of the act. As a Dem on the senate
committee that worked on the bill he made sure that the worst parts of it were removed, and that it included a sunset provision (provisions, which, although he ensured were included, according to wife, he didn't even write).

Read Feingold's testimony. He congratulates the Dems on the committee for doing that much.

Saying he "wrote" a part of it is very different from saying what this article says.

Tell us which provisions Edwards wrote, if you're claiming he wrote a part of it.

Edwards telling us which provisions make sense (provisions Kerry says make sense) isn't the same thing as writing the act.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. This isn't an article. It's an Edwards press release
The press release claims he wrote part of it. If you say he wrote in the sunset provisions, I'd like to see a cite so I can admit my error.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Russ Feingold, who didn't even vote for the act, praised Edwards and the
other Dems on the committee for "writing out" the worst parts of the act and for including the sunset provision.

All the candidates believe that some of these provisions were important.

Now, which parts do you think Edwards authored?

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. All I have to go on is your angry self
Can you provide one link? One?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. You didn't look up the floor debate when you wrote about this in your book
?

The link was here at DU about a month ago.

I'm sure the LOC has a feature where you can look up floor debates by popular name or bill number.

By the way, are you putting the "angry" label on me like you put the "authored" label on Edwards?

Is that fair?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Why don't you call your opposite in the Edwards camp and get the answer
if you don't want to look it up on the internet?

Tell them you're writing about it on the internet. Tell them you need to confirm your facts.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. I think AP has a point for Bill
Since you brought it up - I confess I wasn't even aware of it - please do clarify.

What did Edwards say from the floor?

Which provisions does he claim he affected?

What does he say about it now?

While the answers are interesting, I doubt I will be impressed by anything short of a renunciation of the PATRIOT Act. Anyone who voted for it, voted for it. That's how simple things can be.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Other side of that coin: Senators who took things OUT of a bill that was
Edited on Wed Feb-18-04 11:59 AM by AP
certainly going to pass deserve credit for their hard work too. They could have left that shit in and then hid behind a no vote, like they were hiding behing their mothers' skirts.

That would have been much worse, in my opinon, then a yes vote on a bill they made better.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Sorry, don't buy it
I agree it was good if he took out excessive language or wrote in the sunset clause, but that remains to be seen.

It changes nothing. The PATRIOT Act is the worst legal attack on the Constitution in modern memory. It is a no-compromise issue. And all most people know is that it passed by 82-1, so it must have been a good thing with bipartisan support.

The only credible thing you can do with such a bill is to fight it, and by fighting it make clear to the people what is being done to them. Almost no one dared. And that brings us to the nub, in my opinion:

"The extralegal campaign to undo the Constitution, which was even worse than PATRIOT, which coincided with the making of PATRIOT, and which was what struck fear into the Congress and made everyone line up obediently to vote for PATRIOT."

Since this thread has taken on a bit of a quiz-show character, I'll ask you to provide the Jeopardy question for the above answer.

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Buzz! Sorry, you ran out of time.
"What are the anthrax attacks of October 2001?"
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. It doesn't 'remain to be seen' -- the transcript of the hearings was post-
ed here a coupld days ago, and everyon person testifying and the Dems on the committee said that's what happened.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
76. Is it your position that every single measure
called for in the Patriot Act was worthless and a threat to the Constitution?


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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
40. I thought the patriot act was dropped
fully assembled into the Congress after 9-11. I remember Senator Byrd complaining they didn't even have time to read it. I don't know Edwards role but I think this was Ashcroft's document.

"Now, a chief architect of the USA Patriot Act and a former top assistant to Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft are joining the fray, voicing concern about aspects of the administration's anti-terrorism policy. "

"The principal intellectual force behind the Patriot Act, the terror-fighting law enacted by Congress after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Dinh has steadfastly defended the Justice Department's anti-terrorism efforts against charges that they have led to civil-rights abuses of immigrants and others."
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/120103E.shtml
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
41. Sounds proud of his efforts
of course, having few defense credentials he would leap at the opportunity to connect himself publicly to a "Patriot Act".
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elsiesummers Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
42. I read Edwards is responsible for the Sunset Clause in the Patriot Act.
It was listed a while back here at DU in the ten myths about Edwards.

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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-18-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thanks, WP.
Edwards embroidered a scarlet "P" on his chest like Hester Pyrne.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
44. Hey Will, post the floor-debate
Or would you like us to do that for you, calling into question your motives? I certainly don't want to.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. I've asked three different people to post it
If you want to, be my guest. Whatever you post should prove that Edwards added nothing to the Act except sunset provisions, and also subtracted bad parts. That is what I've been told in rejoinder to this post. Go to town. My apology is all warmed up.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. I'm not really interested in what he did or didn't do with the act. He
more than anyone else in the party knew it was a piece
of crap and he STILL voted for it. His vote against it
would have been evidence of a principled stand. His vote
for it was craven.

What would it have done to him to vote against it? He
didn't. He should have and could have but he didn't.
All the spin in the world won't change the fact that he
knew it was crap and he STILL voted for it.

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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Here's the link:
This is the (last?) floor debate in the Senate:
http://www.cdt.org/security/011025senate.txt

Here's a list of links for the entire legislative history:
http://www.cdt.org/security/usapatriot/history.shtml
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #47
55. Things the Democrats "worked on" on the bill:
Leahy (from the first link) says:

Let me outline just ten ways in which we in the bicameral, bipartisan
negotiations were able to supplement and improve this legislation from
the original proposal we received from the Administration.
We improved security on the Northern Border;
We added money laundering;
We added programs to enhance information sharing and coordination
with State and local law enforcement, grants to State and local
governments to respond to bioterrorism, and to increase payments to
families of fallen firefighters, police officers and other public
safety workers;
We added humanitarian relief to immigrant victims of the September 11
terrorist attacks;
We added help to the FBI to hire translators;
We added more comprehensive victims assistance;
We added measures to fight cybercrime;
We added measures to fight terrorism against mass transportation
systems;
We added important measures to use technology to make our borders
more secure;
Finally, and most importantly, we were able to include additional
important checks on the proposed expansion of government powers
contained in the Attorney General's initial proposal.
In negotiations with the Administration, I did my best to strike a
reasonable balance between the need to address the threat of terrorism,
which we all keenly feel at the present time, and the need to protect
our constitutional freedoms. Despite my misgivings, I acquiesced in
some of the Administration's proposals to move the legislative process
forward. That progress has been rewarded by a bill we have been able to
improve further during discussions over the last two weeks.
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. No "Edwards" on that page though!
And, did you know this? William Pitt is...

Ah I see you do.
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #55
57. Feingold sez:
Edited on Thu Feb-19-04 02:02 AM by PeaceProgProsp
That is why I found the antiterrorism bill originally proposed by
Attorney General Ashcroft and President Bush to be troubling.
The administration's proposed bill contained vast new powers for law
enforcement, some seemingly drafted in haste and others that came from
the FBI's wish list that Congress has rejected in the past. You may
remember that the Attorney General announced his intention to introduce
a bill shortly after the September 11 attacks. He provided the text of
the bill the following Wednesday, and urged Congress to enact it by the
end of the week. That was plainly impossible, but the pressure to move
on this bill quickly, without deliberation and debate, has been
relentless ever since.
It is one thing to shortcut the legislative process in order to get
Federal financial aid to the cities hit by terrorism. We did that, and
no one complained that we moved too quickly. It

<[Page S11021>]

is quite another to press for the enactment of sweeping new powers for
law enforcement that directly affect the civil liberties of the
American people without due deliberation by the peoples' elected
representatives.
Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed at least to some extent, and
while this bill has been on a fast track, there has been time to make
some changes and reach agreement on a bill that is less objectionable
than the bill that the administration originally proposed.
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. also sez:
As I will discuss in a moment, I have concluded that this bill still
does not strike the right balance between empowering law enforcement
and protecting civil liberties. But that does not mean that I oppose
everything in the bill. By no means. Indeed many of its provisions are
entirely reasonable, and I hope they will help law enforcement more
effectively counter the threat of terrorism.

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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Looks like some Dems worked to UNwrite parts of the Act. More Feingold:
For example, the original administration proposal contained a
provision that would have allowed the use in U.S. criminal proceedings
against U.S. citizens of information obtained by foreign law
enforcement agencies in wiretaps that would be illegal in this country.
In other words, evidence obtained in an unconstitutional search
overseas was to be allowed in a U.S. court.

Another provision would have broadened the criminal forfeiture laws
to permit--prior to conviction--the freezing of assets entirely
unrelated to an alleged crime. The Justice Department has wanted this
authority for years, and Congress has never been willing to give it.
For one thing, it touches on the right to counsel, since assets that
are frozen cannot be used to pay a lawyer. The courts have almost
uniformly rejected efforts to restrain assets before conviction unless
they are assets gained in the alleged criminal enterprise. This
proposal, in my view, was simply an effort on the part of the
Department to take advantage of the emergency situation and get
something that they've wanted to get for a long time.

As I have indicated, the foreign wiretap and criminal forfeiture
provisions were dropped from the bill that we considered in the Senate.
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. Feingold certainly had problems with the bill, but he called it 'improved'
Thanks to the work of Democrats, no doubt:

"So the bill before us is certainly improved from the bill that the
administration sent to us on September 19, and wanted us to pass on
September 21."
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
48. 15 hours later the record here still shows: Edwards participated in the PA
So far, since this topic started, William Pitt is the one who provided the most conclusive self-admission from Edwards' press office that he did work on the PA.

Loud but unsubstantiated declarations to the contrary by others notwithstanding.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. Did somebody deny that
Edwards worked on it?

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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. So it seems
When you see a flock of lawyers in a frenzy tinkering with language and obsessing over marginal aspects, you know the case itself is lost.

No idea where that came from, must be all those Law & Order listings that I came across, earlier, when checking what's on TV. Not much really, and West Wing was really sucky too.

But: William Pitt is the one who provided the most conclusive self-admission from Edwards' press office that he did work on the PA.
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #48
52. "did work," "wrote," "authored" -- nobody wants to be precise?
What exactly is the accusation?

Everyone on the committee, Democrat and Republican did work on it. They didn't all have the same intentions.
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SangamonTaylor Donating Member (537 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #48
59. Senator Edwards: Senate Floor debate statement
Oct. 11, 2001

Mr. EDWARDS. Mr. President, I rise in support of S. 1510, the Uniting and Strengthening America Act.

In the aftermath of September 11, we face two difficult and delicate tasks: to strengthen our security in order to prevent future terrorist attacks, and at the same time, to safeguard the individual liberties that make America a beacon of freedom to all the world. I believe that when the President signs this anti-terrorism legislation into law, we will have achieved those two goals as best we now can.

The act is a far-reaching bill. I will mention just a few key aspects of that bill.

First, the legislation brings our surveillance laws into the 21st century. Here are two of many examples. Under current law, the FBI can use a basic search warrant to access answering machine messages, but the FBI needs a different kind of warrant to get to voice mail. This law says the FBI can use a traditional warrant for both. Another example: Under current law, a Federal court can authorize many
electronic surveillance warrants only within the court's limited
jurisdiction. If the target of the investigation is in the judge's
jurisdiction, but the subject of the warrant is technically an internet service provider located elsewhere, the warrant is no good as to that ISP. This bill allows the court overseeing an investigation to issue valid warrants nationwide.

Second, the act gives law enforcement officers and the foreign
intelligence community the ability to share intelligence information
with each other in defined contexts
. For example, the act says that
under specified conditions, the FBI may share wiretap and grand jury
information related to foreign- and counter-intelligence. I appreciate concerns that this information-sharing authority could be abused. Like Chairman Leahy, I would have preferred to see greater judicial oversight of these data exchanges. But I also believe we simply cannot prevail in the battle against terrorism if the right hand of our government has no idea what the left hand is doing.

Third, the act enhances intelligence authorities under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). When I met with FBI agents in North Carolina shortly after September 11, they told me their number one priority was to streamline the FISA process. We've done that. We've said, for example, that the renewal periods of certain key FISA orders may be longer than the initial periods. This makes sure the FBI can focus on investigations, not duplicative court applications.

A more controversial change concerns the purpose of FISA
surveillance. Under current law, a FISA wiretap order may only enter if the primary purpose of the surveillance is foreign intelligence
gathering. The administration initially proposed changing the ``primary purpose'' requirement to a requirement of ``a purpose,'' any foreign intelligence purpose. At a recent Intelligence Committee hearing, I was one of several Senators to raise constitutional questions about the Administration's initial proposal. The last thing we want is to see FISA investigations lost, and convictions overturned, because the surveillance is not constitutional. S. 1510 says that FISA surveillance requires not just ``a purpose,'' but ``a significant purpose,'' of foreign intelligence gathering. That new language is a substantial improvement that I support. In applying this ``significant purpose'' requirement, the FISA court will still need to be careful to enter FISA orders only when the requirements of the Constitution as well as the statute are satisfied. As the Department of Justice has stated in its letter regarding the proposed FISA change, the FISA court has ``an obligation,'' whatever the statutory standard, ``to reject FISA applications that do not truly qualify'' as constitutional. I anticipate continued close congressional oversight and inquiry in this area.

A forth step taken by this legislation is to triple the number of
Border Patrol, INS inspectors, and Customs Service agents along our
4,000-mile northern border
. Today there are just 300 border patrol
agents to guard those 4,000 miles. Orange cones are too often our only defenses against illegal entries. This bill will change that.

Fifth, the bill expedites the hiring of translators by the FBI. It is unthinkable that our law enforcement agents could have critical raw intelligence that they simply cannot understand because they do not know the relevant language. This statute will help to change that stateof affairs.

Finally, the bill makes the criminal law tougher on terrorists. We make it a crime to possess a biological agent or toxin in an amount with no reasonable, peaceful purpose, a crime to harbor a terrorist, a crime to provide material support to terrorism. And we say that when you commit a crime of terrorism, you can be prosecuted for that crime for the rest of your life, with no limitations period. Statutes of limitations guarantee what lawyers call ``repose.'' Terrorists deserve no repose.

As Chairman Leahy and Senator Hatch have both said, this legislation is not perfect, and the House-Senate Conference may yet make improvements. For example, the Conference might clarify that, as to aliens detained as national security threats, the law will secure the due process protections and judicial review required by the Constitution and by the Supreme Court's recent decisions in Zadvydas v. Davis and INS v. St. Cyr. The Conference might also sensibly include a sunset of the new surveillance authorities, ensuring that Congress will reconsider this bill's provisions, which touch such cherished liberties, in light of further experience and reflection.

The bill is not perfect, but it is a good bill, it is important for
the Nation, and I am pleased to support it.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. Thanks, Sangamon, for providing facts to set the record straight.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #59
69. Can I get the link for this?
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Sure Will here it is
http://www.cdt.org/security/011011senate.txt

BTW, I've not heard many Edwards supporters deny outright any involvement by Edwards. I think he worked on it. I can't find a link to what he specifically worked on in committee. I have heard in the past that his job was to try to tone it down and get in the sunset provisions, but I can't find a link on that, so believe or don't.

He voted NO on confirming Ashcroft but in spite of that I still think Edwards and Kerry are both surprised at how Ashcroft has tried to expand and overreach by using the Act as frickin' nazi would.



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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. You're late to the game. Not only is that link provided above, the docs...
...which you find in it have been quoted in subsequent posts and provide answers to your questions.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. AP -- then what link was Will wanting?
I was responding to his request for a link.

I thought I provided the link he requested?

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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #75
77. I think I saw that same link somewhere above.
And parts of it are posted. And I think you can get the answers to some of your questions from the things posted.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
49. Will, Feingold was the only senator who saw through it. .
We may have to fogive the nominee over that one. However, we still have a chance to elect the only candidate who, not only voted against it, but led the fight against it. I'm hoping some of the supporters who have lost their candidates will come Dennis's way. He can still win California.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. I didn't post this to zap Edwards
I mentioned that he had worked on the legislation in another thread, and was asked to cite my claim. That thread had gotten huge by the time I found this, so I posted it here. If Edwards gets the nomination, he has my support.
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. Also, long live ABB and let's do the pledge of allegiance once more!
But: William Pitt is the one who provided the most conclusive self-admission from Edwards' press office that he did work on the PA.

I thought y'all wanted to hear that.
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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #50
62. In your first post you said "wrote." Now you say "worked."
Care to take a side, or argue that it's not relevant which word you use?
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tobius Donating Member (947 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
63. " Isn't it time to unite behind our candidate(s)? "
I've heard variations on this question/statement for some time here. I have been told that the positions on LNCB, Patriot Act, IWR, NAFTA, tax cuts, etc..etc.. on and on...
were not important, what was important was ABB.

I seem to sense a bit of buyers remorse today all over the board on the imminent nomination of Edwards or Kerry.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
64. kick
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
65. Some important context for this discussion...
A is for Anthrax. Remember that?

(notes to an article...)

The Congress that rushed through the USA PATRIOT Act nearly unread was the same Congress that was packing and rushing out of Washington because the leadership of the opposition Democrats had been subjected to an anthrax attack.

I consider this fact inseparable from any discussion of the PATRIOT Act. The head of the Judiciary Committee, Patrick Leahy, received a letter, as did the Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle. This was just as they had complained about the original text of the PATRIOT Act.

Congress was terrorized and broken.

This incident should have put an end to doubt about the "war on terror" and everything else that the regime has been doing. It has been utterly forgotten, although during October 2001 it was trumped up as something even bigger than 9/11.

Unlike the case of 9/11, the facts about the anthrax attacks are simple, clear and close to conclusive:

-The Bush government revived an anthrax program early in 2001 on orders from Cheney and had developed a new milling process just before Sept. 11. Incredibly, this was called "Project Jefferson" (!).

- A week before Sept. 11, NYT reported that the Pentagon was experimenting in the "defensive" development of anthrax milling methods. Scientists were assigned to put together homemade laboratories, using only materials available commercially, on the sparse budget of a mere million of your taxpayer dollars. The Pentagon said they weren't actually taking the final step of milling live spores (although I wonder why, once ready, they would not want to see how well their lab works). The idea was to see what terrorists might be able to do. The French got wind of this program and complained to some UN committee, since the biowarfare convention outlaws all research including "defensive." To allay concerns, the Pentagon invited an NY Times reporter, our old friend Judy Miller, to the Texas base where all this was going on.*
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/international/04GERM.html?searchpv=nytToday&pagewanted=all
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/04/international/04BIOW.html

-On Sept. 11th the White House immediately put some of its staff, including Cheney, on Cipro. How did they know to pick this antibiotic, out of the many available? How could they guess that anthrax (or another pathogen against which Cipro can protect) was coming?

-A wave of stories immediately after Sept. 11th announced that anthrax was the likeliest next attack. We were even threatened with a specific sequence of future attacks: anthrax, smallpox, plague. (They've been drumming up the smallpox scare ever since the anthrax attacks stopped.) Of all the hundreds of biowar germs and literally thousands of types of terror attacks, why was this idea circulated so prominently? Who was behind spreading these stories? Why so specific?

-Suspect Hatfill while working biowarfare research at SAIC/Batelle Memorial in 1999 commissioned his colleague in science, William Capers Patrick, the renowned dean of American biowarfare research, to write a report on modalities that terrorists might employ in sending anthrax through the mail.

-The report from that study specified an ideal spore concentration and weight of anthrax sample per envelope. These were the amounts that were then reportedly used in the attacks on Daschle and Leahy. In other words, the anthrax attackers had access to this secret report.

-The anthrax went first to the headquarters of the country's biggest tabloid owner (National Enquirer and Florida Sun-Sentinel). The Enquirer had printed a series of anti-Bush "conspiracy" stories, including one claiming that McVeigh was still breathing after his execution. The Enquirer also published embarrassing pictures of the Bush twins drunk, which had gotten much play on Drudge and similar outlets. Was this an object lesson to the media? (Note: never established how it got to Bob Stevens; no envelope located; theory that it may have been spread from one floor to another by a vacuum cleaner ... or was he directly hit, via keyboard?)

-The wife of the paper's editor had rented an apartment to Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi. Were they going to do a story about this that would not have fit the official 9/11 line?

--At this point, the FBI on a request from Iowa State University allowed the destruction of a stockpile of original Ames strain samples on Oct. 13, days after the attacks became known. Why?! This was a precaution?!

--The FBI immediately called off one-half of the thousands of agents who were working on 9/11 and put them to work on anthrax.

-The next group of attacks hit the New York media. They arrived just as the Afghanistan campaign began and caused maximum coverage of nothing but anthrax. For a vital week or two, the 9/11 investigation dropped out of the media. About one-half of the FBI agents assigned to 9/11 were dispatched to cover anthrax.

-The third wave of attacks, the one that exactly fit the specifications of the secret paper, was sent first to Daschle and Leahy - the leader of the opposition in the Senate and the head of the Judiciary Committee.

-This exceptional piece of constituent mail arrived at around the same time as the USA Patriot Act was also submitted to the Congress. Lehay had initially opposed the Act, and requested clarification of its more extreme provisions from Ashcroft.

-The House chose to immediately run home, casting their votes for this negation of the U.S. Constitution as they went. As Republican Congressman Ron Paul has made clear, most of them did not even receive a text of the 300-page final version before they voted for it, let alone had a chance to read it.

- The Senate soon followed suit, also approving Patriot. The next reports were that Kennedy and Levin, two other liberals, had also received an anthrax letter.

-The notes included with the anthrax letters tried to point the blame at Arab perpetrators, but these were clumsy and transparent ("Allah is Great" instead of "God Is Great" or "Allah Akhbar.")

-The news at first wanted to blame it on Arabs, or Iraq. Why does that damned Osama bin Laden hate the Democratic leadership, as opposed to Republican leaders?

-Only days later did reports arrive of anthrax being found in mail to the White House, Pentagon, Federal Reserve, CIA, etc., all of which had by then been very safely isolated on military bases. No details about these alleged attacks have been released. We have not seen copies of the letters, as was the case with the letters to Daschle, Leahy and Brokaw. There have to my knowledge been no follow up reports on the provenance of the anthrax employed.

How strange how the first attacks, which were the only ones that had a chance to get through, went to the Democratic leadership!

-Suddenly, the anthrax wave was dropped as quickly as it had begun. The biggest U.S. media story of October 2001 was effectively swept away. The media obediently switched to the taking of Kabul and spent November 2001 preparing us for a thoughtful Thanksgiving with endless soul-searching stories asking how our country could have ever produced Johnny Taliban Walker.

- Anthrax has since been mentioned only rarely and out of context, as when Powell had the gall to hold up a vial of white powder at the UN and ask where Saddam is hiding his anthrax. Well, Colin, where are you keeping yours?

-All the foreign anthrax letters reported at various times in 2001 have been dismissed as white-powder hoaxes.

-It was established quickly that the anthrax to Leahy and Daschle was of recent production, with high-quality, weaponized spores such as can be produced only by a specialist at an advanced facility; and that the lineage goes back to Fort Detrick, Maryland and the Ames strain used by American biowarfare programs.

-For all this, an obvious effort was made to minimize casualties and target the letters very specifically to individuals. The same amount of anthrax could have been spread in a fashion causing many more deaths.

-Having gotten as far as Stephen Hatfill, the FBI investigation has now stalled for nearly two years. Could it be that the "lone perpetrator" thesis is not sustainable, and they don't want to deal with the implications?

What does that add up to?

As a selective wave of terror, the attacks were perfectly designed and timed to cow the opposition, force through the Patriot Act, make an exampe of deviant journalists, divert the 9/11 investigation, and frighten and occupy the media during the first phase of the Afghanistan war. The attacks provided important reinforcement in keeping these various actors from deviating in any way from the official post-Sept. 11th atmosphere of terror and panic. They were the key step in initiating the post-Sept. 11 transformation of American society and law.

In other words, the anthrax attacks look exactly as though they were planned and executed by a black-ops or damage control team working on behalf of the Bush regime's goals, either as rogues or as appointed hitmen. We might compare them to Nixon's Plumbers, except that they were much more sophisticated and effective in their choice of methods.

That is the only thesis forwarded so far that credibly covers all of the above facts. In this case, there is no doubt which way Occam's razor cuts.

In fact, this is the thesis that many people subscribe to when speaking off the record in the the world capital of paranoia itself, Washington, DC.

And what has Daschle done or said about these facts? Are Brokaw and Rather really unaware of all this? They do not even defend themselves against an assassination attempt on himself and his staff.

This is the context in which we should view the Jan. 2002 call from Cheney, the premature Cipro-taker, to Daschle, the anthrax recipient, threatening the other of dire consequences if he should push too hard for a 9/11 investigation in the Congress. This touched off a series delays in the joint investigation, which first opened in June.

Daschle - and Leahy, and all the other Senators including Kerry and Edwards - are so scared, or so compromised, or otherwise being blackmailed with other threats, that they have not risen to this challenge. I don't envy or accuse them, but how can you expect these guy to ever confront the Bush mob?

(*NOTE: What justification is there for programs like "Jefferson"? This program not only finds out what terrorists might do, it no doubt discovers ways to do it that they might not have thought of themselves. The government scientists gain the astonishing insight that there's fuck-all they can do to stop evil biology students from engaging in such activities if they so wish. And the program's results will be written up in a little "defensive" manual on how to make your own anthrax lab. One day, probably soon, that will end up in the hands of one of our freedom fighters somewhere... and a years down the line he or his successor will use it against the U.S., thus setting off the next round of "defensive" activity on our part. At least it's lucrative!)
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
66. Edwards Supporters: Care to tell us about the Homeland Intelligence Agency
Edwards has introduced a bill to create a Homeland Intelligence Agency, a new consolidated domestic law enforcement and intel agency. What is that all about? Care to justify it?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. It's brilliant. FBI and CIA are dominated by Bush-crony Republicans.
Edwards wants to create an agency which takes away the powers they possesss, which they have failed to exercise possibly INTENTIONALLY in order to create a landscape which helps Republicans get elected.

Edwards wants to dump those powers into a new agency which Democrats will form. All those appointments will be people who are sympathetic to the Democratic project. In the same way that the FBI does bidding of Republicans (wen ho lee, ignoring terrorism) the new agency will do the bidding of Democrats (ie, actually protect us from terrorism, find the anthrax people) so that Republicans don't have their little fortuitous events which help them win electins.

This is actually GENIUS. I'm surprised more DU'ers don't understand the implications.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Hello? No responses?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Do me a favor...
Since you're the ardent Edwards supporter, maybe you can win this argument in the minds of others if not me. But you have to provide the research.

I don't have the time, sorry. I won't make attack Edwards for HIA until I've researched it some more. Besides, as a supporter you want to make sure that it's somebody sympathetic to E. doing the research, and I can't guarantee I will be (after the IWR and PATRIOT votes.)

What you say about HIA is potentially true, of course, but when you create new agencies they tend to end up in the hands of whomever gets elected (a problem with many things, as you are aware).

Is the text of this HIA thing available on the Web?

Are statements by Edwards on HIA available on the Web?

Can you summarize its provisions factually, as one might for a newspaper article?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. If this comes up two more times, I will. Although I love to write on DU,
I don't get paid to do it, and my attentions flow towards the place where they seem most valuable at the moment. Although I respect you and would love to convince people you mention, I can't justify the time until I see that what I've already written isn't enough, or untiil I see that many more people care about it.

But I promise, as soon as I get the sense that that time will be well-spent, I'll write more.

Incidentally, my opinoin on this is based on stuff I did read at the time this issue broke.
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