A witness to the Kerry event where a tesor was used has an interesting take on the event

[zulchzulu]

On FACEBOOK:

Ted Donaldson (Rollins) wrote
5 hours ago
"If you want to hear it from someone that was there:

The disturbance did not begin with Andrew asking the question. He caused quite a scene by bursting into the room in the middle of Q+A, rudely interrupting Kerry answering another question (what was supposed to be the last one), and demanding to be heard. The cops followed him in (I have the feeling he had been giving them a hard time outside as well)

John Kerry responded by asking him to calm down and wait his turn, that his question would be answered next.

As some of the videos show, his question was long and rambling without much focus, less of a question if you will than an outburst. John Kerry remained calm, tried to guide him to the direct question he would like answered, but Andrew continued. After Accent cut his mike off, the cops tried to guide him out and as you can all see the real event began.

I was sitting in the back row of the auditorium- less than 5 feet from where he was restrained and ended up being tasered. (you can see my green shirt next to my friend in the striped shirt on most of the videos) He WAS NOT handcuffed yet when they did it. He was still attempting to get up and resist the police officers and would not put his hands behind his back.

Within close range, I have to say that I didn't feel it was the safest situation. I did not feel like they had him under control at all- and was scared that if he did manage to get up- he would have started getting riled up again. I personally was in a location that if he had started flailing around again- I would have been at risk.

Now- my opinion- I think Andrew had intentions to be disruptive and was not going to leave peacefully. I am by no means a proponent of violence, but the way the UPD handled this situation was completely appropriate."

-Stephanie Sims, former UF College Democrats PresidentReply to Ted
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Post #2Erin Decker (UF) wrote
4 hours ago
Thank you for posting that. I was also at the forum and completely agree with that account of the incident. I also felt unsafe because Mr. Meyer was being excessively aggressive and violent. I am thankful that UPD was finally able to control the situation and think they acted properly.Reply to Erin
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Post #3Chris Agard (FIU) replied to Ted's post
3 hours ago
I'd like to also thank you. I wasn't as close to him, but agree that his actions were meant to disrupt, and make a scene. He deserved what he got and UPD did what they had to, and had they not handled it as professionally as they did, they wouldn't be doing ther jobs. Being that it was Sen. Kerry the police also had to act accordingly.



http://uwm.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4943984636

[Steve_in_California]

1. The whole things changes . . .

once the Cops let that kid get in. The cops should have stopped him at the door. They screwed up--twice!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

3. This may have been a political ploy that backfired.

MKj

[Purveyor]

2. Well then 'THAT DOES IT"! The cops shouldn't have refrained themselves to just tasers

and pulled out their Glocks and aerated this bastard!

Just think of the DU 'cheerleading' over THAT, now would you...

[zulchzulu]

7. Hey, I agree

Everybody should be able to just bust into a rally and jump the line and start screaming at the top of their lungs...and we should all just be mollified by their pure all-knowing "expression"...so what if they mispronounce the author's name and introduce tinfoil hat "logic"...hey, they have a right to interrupt and make a scene... rules and order are so last century... the cops should have clapped and given him oral servicing for his immense courage.

:sarcasm:

[RangerRK]

54. "bust into a rally and jump the line and start screaming at the top of their lungs"

There seems to be an effort to manufacture reality on this board.

The student asked rational questions and was not screaming until arrested and tasered.

[Cha]

100. No, what I still don't agree

with is the tasering but sounds like it's old hat to these students.

[truedelphi]

14. YEAH! I WANNA SEE STUDENT BLOOD AND GUTS AND GORE

But if not Gore than I'd at least like to see Kerry answer the questions - especially about why DID he concede.

Would that be okay to answer? I mean, since people worked themselves to the bone trying to get that election right - and trying to get him elected, but he doesn't answer because of protocol.

[paulk]

19. actually, he did answer the question,

but don't let that stop you...

[truedelphi]

24. I just spent ten minutes doing the transcript and nowhere did he answer

At least not inside the YouTube clip that I watched.

In fact Kerry says, "I would answer that but the person is busy now" or something to that effect - as though you don't have to answer legitimate questions if the gestapo gets to the questioner first.

[zulchzulu]

26. If you watched the video, you'd see that it was panic near the end

Do you really think that knowing the event was about to end and this unfortunate incident happens with screaming and cops running around in the scuffle that he should succinctly and calmly answer a question that frankly didn't even deserve to be answered...the tinfoil hattery about Skull and Bones... he might have corrected the guy about how Palast's name is really pronounced. He did try to answer the question about the 2004 election, but it would take an hour to describe what happened that election day...

I suspect this guy didn't even read Armed Madhouse. I got my copy signed by Greg at the Fighting Bob Fest last year... so there!

:hi:

[truedelphi]

34. Ya know something, I think some of us gave our lives and our GODDAMN FRIGGING HEARTS

AND SOULS FOR KERRY and he in turn spent about a half hour the day after the election musing over it and then conceded.

So you know SOMETHING?? I don't care if the kid went up and rang his doorbell in the middle of the FRIGGIN night and got Sen Kerry out of FRIGGIN BED - I would love to hear the answer.

Because it is an answer I need and so do many of the rest of us who spent way too long working for a cause that in the end could not have cared at all about us. At least apparently not from Kerry's stand point.

I remember John Edwards being totally impassioned about the need to count every vote - and he wanted to wait until all the votes were counted.

But Hillary chewed Edwards out for grandstanding (After all, if Kerry waited and insisted and counted every vote - he would have gotten in and then where would her plans for WH in '08 go??)

[rjones2818]

84. Yeah...

while the kid was being manhandled and tazed.

:banghead:

:nuke:

[spag68]

4. How many times can you say

mountain out of molehill

[MarianJack]

10. Maybe Even...

...Jupiter out of a golf ball?

[jobycom]

5. People have been calling radio stations all day saying the same thing.

They were there, this kid was out of control, and the cops handled it with restraint.

[barb162]

38. A radio station in my town was having great fun with this weirdo today.

This particular station's comment / call-in show was terrific. It's the same as you are mentioning in your post.

[TwilightZone]

6. This thread will probably be ignored; it doesn't fit the agenda.

It's amazing what people have turned this into. This belligerent, self-centered jerk is made out to be some kind of superhero.

[barb162]

36. I thought he came off as an arrogant, crazed jerk whose sole aim was

to attack Kerry. Bringing up Kerry's Skull and Brossbones affiliation from about 50 years ago showed where this guy was coming from. I'm wondering why he didn't go even farther back and attack Kerry's high school record.

[tocqueville]

8. some observations

I watched the video on Youtube and on CNN (different angles)

1) I was myself witness of a similar situation at a townhall in France a couple of years ago.

A disruptive person started to act in the same way (the reason was that he was not happy with the answers a civil servant gave him)

there were no cops in the hall but only an unarmed guard who could not subdue the person. He called for the cops while trying to push to guy towards the exit. The guy was as heavily built as Andrew.

Two cops came in, tripped him, locked rapidly his arms behind his back and cuffed him. End of story. The person in case was making as much resistance as Andrew.

Question how come, two normal built cops can handle a person that 5/6 can't ? Even if 5 cops were needed, there was no reason to taze him, specially when he was on the ground. It didn't paralyze him, just hurt him.


2) no matter what can be considered as appropriate use of force, the video gives a very bad image of the States because it will be interpreted as overuse av violence.

[MonkeyFunk]

11. because a suspect

on the ground who's fighting is still a danger to himself and others.

[mike_c]

18. a "suspect on the ground...."

Amazing how the language of the police state makes all this seem so clear and reasonable, isn't it? The police grossly over reacted-- Andrew Meyer was a nuisance, not a threat. He was loud, he was expressing himself angrily. Nonetheless, his only real "crime" was to violate the organizer's microphone etiquette. Law enforcement should never have been involved because he wasn't breaking any laws.

This is how the security state locks down a free nation-- with the consent of the fearful and those who applaud an end to inconvenient behavior.

[MonkeyFunk]

20. He was obviously disrupting the event

and was asked to leave. When he didn't, the police got involved.

He's no hero. He went there with the intention of disrupting it.

The people who actually WANTED to hear Kerry speak have rights, too.

And regardless of what word you want to use to describe him, somebody who is on the ground, but still fighting, is a danger to himself and others.

[mike_c]

25. my friend, this was a public event, paid for by public funds...

...held in a public institution. First, I'd argue that it's really hard to "disrupt" such an event-- its purpose is to stimulate public participation, thought, and discussion in the first place, and Mr. Meyer has CERTAINLY done that, far more than anything else that occurred there.

But even more important, "disrupting" such an event by taking part in it is NOT a crime. It's perhaps a nuisance, maybe a brief inconvenience-- remember, he was at the microphone for less than two minutes-- but it never warranted police intervention. By the time he was "on the ground, still fighting," the police had already made a complete mess of the situation.

The way to deal with folks like Mr. Meyer is through civil engagement or confrontation-- by DEALING with them, or by ignoring them sometimes, but this was just totally unnecessary police violence.

[MonkeyFunk]

28. You honestly

think public events cannot be disrupted? How strange.

[mike_c]

30. I didn't say that at all....

I said that Mr. Meyer's outburst was within the realm of acceptable behavior at this sort of event-- it was still rude, still obnoxious, but speakers like Senator Kerry are certainly accustomed to being strongly challenged. And there is an audience dynamic that happens in cases like this-- you saw it on the video, when the audience approved of his arrest-- that isolates and quiets lone disruptors without a support column.

The police need never have involved themselves in this matter. THAT is the real problem, in my estimation, not the circumstance that someone went to a political forum with a chip on their shoulder about current affairs.

[MonkeyFunk]

32. How long should he have been allowed to rant?

He'd already gone way over the time limit, and was asked repeatedly to stop.

Do you think he was really trying to get an answer out of Kerry? If so, why didn't he shut up and listen to the answer?

[mike_c]

37. it wouldn't have taken long for him to run out of steam, IMO....

1. He's 21 years old. He might be a hot-head, but unless he's completely around the bend he will eventually start hearing himself rant. They always do.

2. He was angry, and confrontational, but not hysterical or out of control-- at least not until the police started on him.

3. Once he begins to falter, he will start listening. He might try to spin up again in response to Kerry's reply, but he could be dealt with as soon as he stopped to breathe.

4. He was isolated-- that makes the self-conscious sillies set in that much more quickly.

5. The best thing to have done in the circumstance-- IMO, based on my experiences dealing with hot-headed college students :-)-- would be to quiet the crowd and let him rant freely. After a couple of minutes he would have either stopped to listen, or he would have made a dramatic exit on his own.

None of this changes the circumstance that the police should NEVER have been involved unless the guy was breaking the law, or presenting a clear danger to himself or others. Rude people are not necessarily dangerous, except to complacency.

[MonkeyFunk]

42. he'd already had a few minutes

the fact is, if you read some of the other accounts of what happened, he was NOT an innocent college kid asking an innocent question.

He was there to disrupt. THey let him disrupt for a few minutes, then tried to get him to stop, and he wouldn't.

I'm not saying he should've been tasered - but I think he should not be surprised that the police got involved.

[mike_c]

48. I believe he was on the mic for about one minute...

That's it. Start to finish, he was only speaking for a minute or so, and while clearly agitated, he was coherent and made perfect sense. When he asked the skull and bones question, the cops simply grabbed him.

[Hersheygirl]

64. To be exact, someone timed it

It was one minute and 45 seconds.

[karynnj]

52. He was 21 , not 2

Yet year ago, I took myself and my then 2 year old out of many restaurants, religious services and a kids' movie, leaving her older sisters to see the rest with my husband. Why, because I could not keep her quiet - she was singing in the movie. She is not 21 yet, put has never had to leave anything for well over 10 years.

Somehow this boy never learned how to behave in public.

[mike_c]

58. I've seen lots of kids his age freak out a little...

...when they realize everyone is watching and listening to them, especially in argumentative situations. Not like Andrew Meyer did, of course, but I definitely recognize some of the incipient panic behind his ranting. You're right-- he did not know how to conduct himself in that setting, especially when angry and frustrated. That's another reason I'm convinced Kerry could have handled the situation easily if the cops had stayed out of it-- it's not that difficult to talk someone like that into being reasonable, especially when they begin to feel really out there by themselves.

[karynnj]

76. Which was what Kerry was already doing

and which I have seen him do very effectively in some CSPAN coverage. I also saw him deal very well with someone, who had been relatively disruptive at a NJ event - calling for the local candidates to stop talking. Kerry was incredible speaking very calmly and in a quieter than usual voice - the guy who was loud actually followed the Senator in reducing his volume. In that case, through questions, it was clear that that guy was a good person and in the end there was a pleasant exchange of information between them.

Here, I'm not sure, it would have worked - the NJ guy was someone like what you are describing. Meyer though wanted the thing to blow up and the police knew more about him - the questions were irrelevant. He wanted a reaction. In fact, Kerry is one of the politicians, who is coolest at this point and does not blow up. Meyers would have liked nothing better than to be the "victim" of a Macaca moment and other Democrats might have given it to him - if provoked like this. (Consider that Dean was hurt in Iowa by telling an obnoxious 70 year old heckler to "Sit Down". Our 2008 candidates are human.)

[barb162]

59. That was one giant temper tantrum.

If he couldn't do what he wanted , he was willing to disrupt the whole event for everyone else. Pathetic. Another poster on another thread suggested we may have been witnessing a manic disorder because of the grandiosity and other traits he was evidencing.

[Apollo11]

60. I strongly agree

"Rude people are not necessarily dangerous, except to complacency."

Exactly!

And if the kid was unarmed, it was wrong to use a taser on him.

[Marrah_G]

73. You do realize he specifically went there to cause a scene and film it right?

If you don't realize that then perhaps you should read the police report and his own web page.

[truedelphi]

90. Okay but if you are basing the concept of allowing of all the things that went on

On whether or not he went there to cause a scene - we have a problem.

Even if he was a professional heckler, we need to protect his right to speech. Because if we don't and then one day you want to say something, someone can say, Hmm, she is someone on DU, and aren't they all pretty much provacateurs over there at DU.

They aren't the norm. They are radical.

Shut her up! Taser Her!

[barb162]

43. When the audience started clapping and cheering, he became

more out of control and tried playing to the audience.

[zulchzulu]

29. What if Meyer had a firearm on him...

The event was not a "brief inconvenience" according to people who were there. According to the people who were there and not armchair judges far away from where it happened, he was more than a "nuisance".

He was a nut. There are rules. You don't just come running in screaming, butt in line and hijack a rally/event and then not adhere to protocol. Do you support chaos?

Should I go to a restaurant tomorrow, butt in line, grab my food, yell at the top of my lungs that I'm hungry and then just be expected by others to let me do what the hell ever I want to do?

[mike_c]

35. what if he were an escaped nazi war criminal with a basement full of hostages....

Well.

He was not armed. He didn't threaten anyone until the police tried to force him out, and then he simply resisted being removed. Don't you think it's rather silly to discuss the possibility that he might have been armed when he clearly wasn't. Hell, I might have a nuclear bomb in the hall closet. Better call Homeland Security.

"He was a nut. There are rules." Yes, but not LAWS. It is not illegal to butt in line to question a speaker-- just impolite. It isn't illegal to violate the organizer's microphone etiquette, however intentional. It's rude, but not illegal. It's not illegal to challenge a public figure at a public event in a public institution. I think more folks should be doing it.

In any event, it's hard to see what law enforcement had to do with anything that happened in that room.

[barb162]

46. Disorderly conduct. is a law as is resisting arrest.

It's not just about obnoxious behavior. He also resisted the police. The "rules" are laws in some instances, such as disturbing the peace. I suspect that's why the meeting orgainziers called the police in the first place.

"Almost every state in the United States has a disorderly conduct law that makes it a crime to be drunk in public, to "disturb the peace", or to loiter in certain areas. Many types of obnoxious or unruly conduct may fit the definition of disorderly conduct, as such statutes are often used as "catch-all" crimes. Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when people are behaving in a disruptive manner to themselves or others, but present no serious public danger. Disorderly conduct is typically classified as a misdemeanor."
from wikipedia

[mike_c]

50. have you watched the video of his questions at the microphone?

That's not disorderly conduct IMO-- in fact, up until the skull and bones question I thought he was just a bit nervous and self-conscious.

The more I watch that video, the more I think Mr. Meyers was just a kid pissed off about the same things I'm pissed about, who let the moment get away from him. He was NEVER any threat to anyone.

Up until the cops grabbed him, I don't think his behavior was even all that obnoxious, frankly. He asked a couple of direct questions. That's all. The skull and bones question was unnecessary, but for gods sake, Kerry is a seasoned speaker. Andrew Meyer would not have been too difficult to deal with if the cops had stayed out of it.

[karynnj]

53. That video is a small excerpt

filmed by a friend of his, put up on his web site and linked by a major Florida newspaper. It does not tell the entire story.

Here is another personal account - that I found with google that oddly enough was from a RW site!
So I went to the John Kerry town hall forum this morning trying to get students registered to vote. I run a student government organization called Chomp the Vote. Anyway I went inside to watch the event. Senator Kerry took the podium and began delivering a speech about the Middle East, Iraq, dimplomacy, etc. Anyway, after he was done, a university ambassador asked Kerry a few premade questions. Once that was over, Senator Kerry announced he would take questions from the students. There were two microphones placed on each side of the aisle. One on my side and the other on Andrew Meyer’s side. Senator Kerry began answering the student’s questions from each aisle. Eventually it was announced that there would only be a few more questions answered. Since Meyer and I were both in the back of each line, it did not seem likely that our questions would be answered.

However, while Senator Kerry was responding to a student’s question, all of a sudden Meyer rushed to the microphone with cops in pursuit. At that point no one knew what was going on. Could he have a gun, a bomb? Immediately, Meyer began yelling into the microphone that he had been waiting in line forever and that Senator Kerry should “spend time to answer everyone’s questions!” Senator Kerry tried to calm the student down by telling him that he would “stay here as long as it takes to get the questions answered.” The police approached Meyer who began taunting them by saying “what! are you going to taser me? are you going to arrest me?!” The police grabbed Meyer, but Senator Kerry asked the police to let him go and that he would answer his question. Senator Kerry finished answering the other student’s question and then proceeded with Meyer. (*This entire scene is not in any video I can find so far. This is why 2 cops are seen right behind Meyer at the start of some videos*).

Meyer approached the microphone and began to talk about a book he had which stated that Kerry won the 2004 election because of disenfranchisement of black voters and faulty voter machines that produced “Bush” as the winner. He then posed another question about why President Bush had not been impeached. “President Clinton was impeached because of a blowjob, why not Bush?”. The third and strangest question he posed to Senator Kerry was asking him if he was part of the skull and bones society with Bush at Yale. Meyer’s mic cut off after that, probably because he had mentioned the word “blowjob”.

...I don’t know if this is relevant or not, but Andrew Meyer is a former sports writer for the school newspaper The Alligator. In his columns, he has been known to make ridiculous statements in order to gain attention for himself. Was today a publicity stunt?

[barb162]

57. I wonder if he was high on coke or something.

The accusations disguised as questions, the unprofessional, disjointed manner, the manic, stocatto style where he seemed not to be finishing his own sentences, etc. If he's a journalism senior, I wonder who he thinks will hire him. I hope his parents are rich and can support him or get him a good shrink.

[zulchzulu]

71. He has symptoms of being bi-polar

I would fully expect that once the fog clears, this kid has had a history of disruptive behavioral problems.

He also might have been high on something as well. I'm sure his parents are wealthy and are embarrassed by his latest stint.

[barb162]

94. And if his parents aren't embarassed by the poor job

they did raising this idiot, that will explain a lot why this attention freak is the way he is.

Get the lithium!!!!!
I had a friend who was bipolar and when she was in her manic phases she would barge in to places inappropriately too. She drove her car on to a football field once when a college game was in play. She got arrested, fired from her job, and was all upset when her sister refused to bail her out of jail and that the cops arrested her. Because, by golly, she had the right to do that and everyone else was violating HER rights. There was no talking to her when she was like that. It was very sad when every so often she decided she didn't need to take her medication. She'd always go manic first and get in big trouble.

[karynnj]

75. If I saw someone acting likely that on the streets of NYC,

I would clearly cross the street to avoid him. His aggressiveness was scary.

[barb162]

95. I know what you mean.

In one of the videos there is a male on the far side of the hall leaving the auditorium when Meyer is speaking-ranting. Maybe he was disgusted or tired or sensing trouble ahead. It's best to avoid the trouble.

[barb162]

55. I watched the video where he was ranting for a while before he

actually asked any question. The S and C question was beyond odd and then he seemed to try to tie that in with the suggestion "question" of Kerry "throwing" the last presidential election and then there was the Iraq war question. Was he trying to get Kerry to admit to some sort of conspiracy tied in with what groups he was affiliated with during his college years? I thought it was a one man attack fest on Kerry, very angrily stated and outrageously accusing in its implications. Then he got even angrier when the mike was cut. Well, too bad, since my understanding is people were told they had one question. This guy was acting like everyone had to play by his rules and he was going to make up the rules as he went along. That's why I think there was clapping when the mike was cut.

What the cops failed to do was what another poster stated. They failed to trip him and cuff him in a few seconds. If they could have cuffed him quickly, they could have hauled him out of that auditorium much faster and without further problem (tasering).

[Apollo11]

82. Strongly agree

"Andrew Meyer would not have been too difficult to deal with if the cops had stayed out of it."

[sendero]

67. I don't think your interpretation..

...of what is legal has much basis in reality.

[slick8790]

96. Re: There are rules....

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules." :D

But on a serious note, I agree with you. This kid was there solely to disrupt.

[zeemike]

23. You have been well trained comrade

" a danger to himself and others." is strait out of Law enforcement 101

[MonkeyFunk]

do you deny it?

if police are trying to restrain someone who is fighting them, even if he's on the ground, is he not in danger of injuring himelf or others?

[mike_c]

39. the police CREATED that situation, so it's a bit of a straw man....

There was no reason for them to "restrain" him in the first place.

[MonkeyFunk]

45. The police had already asked him to leave

and he didn't. In fact, he broke away from them, still screaming, and swung at them.

When the police asked him to leave, and he refused, nothing that happened after that should've come as a surprise to him.

[mike_c]

51. the police were denying his right to speak-- why are you so adamently...

...defending fascist tactics? Now folks in this thread are playing "lets find a crime that fits the circumstance" to justify police brutality. Welcome to the Amerikan security state, where it's ALWAYS a crime to stand out from the herd.

[barb162]

47. There certainly was a reason to restrain him in the first place,

that being, other citizens called the police about his behavior. I believe it falls under disorderly conduct statutes.

[zeemike]

65. I don't care how big and strong you are

If you have 5 cops on top of you your are not about to get up and hurt anyone. But the cops can hurt you and say that you hurt yourself by resisting them
Case in point the Rodney King beating. He was on the ground face down and every time he raised his head they beat him some more. So he wa hurting himself by moving right?
One tactic they use ( and are probably trained to do) is to get them on the ground face down and put there full body weight on the back and this makes it imposable to breath. It is the same as water boarding only no watter is necessary. And then when the suspect turns blue they let up so that he does not die. There have been cases where they waited to long and the suspect did die....but it was his own fault he should not have moved at all but submit.....he killed himself.

[zulchzulu]

13. I don't think they had to taser him necessarily, although I wasn't there

What the account says is that he was not cooperating at a point where he was well past just getting released.

If he had really wanted to make a statement, he would have willingly made his point, got arrested and then get released outside the event venue. He decided to fight the police...you go "there" and it's up to them to stop you in your tracks.

I've been at many protest rallies where some want to get arrested and make a point, preferably on video. They know not to fight the cops. Make your point. Then either cooperate with the authorities or give them a chance to fully reprimand you. Good protestors can do good actions without getting busted.

[zalinda]

22. To some here, any force by cops is too much force

If the cops had tripped the guy, you would have had people here declaring that the cops slammed him to the ground. It doesn't pay to put ANY type of common sense into some of the discussions, because it is never heard.

And, we STILL don't know the whole story. All we know is that he was hopped up when he left the auditorium and subdued when he left the police station.

zalinda

[barb162]

40. The female cop was way smaller than Meyer as I recall.

Maybe the trick was to trip him and the cops in Florida didn't do that.

[Niche]

9. "Agenda?" Now that's just freepy talk...

Nothing about this incident bothers anyone on this thread? Hmmm? Oh, that's right this is * Nation.

[truedelphi]

16. Itbothers some of us over here at

http://tinyurl.com/39wrmy

in the election reform group.

[zeemike]

21. That explains why the clapping when the cops came to take him

We love our brave SS. They protect us so well from loud mouths that ask a lot of questions. And if you got him down why not a Little punishment with a tazer. He certainly deserved it did he not?

[barb162]

49. The clapping came, I suspect, because the people in that audience

were fed up with that clown who was clearly trying to disrupt the meeting. I understand people were told beforehand there would be one question per person. Not multiple questions inside of a long buffoonish attack rant.

[AZBlue]

44. Really?? Cause I'm not a Freper, but I use the word "agenda" often.

Are ya sure about that??

[ShortnFiery]

12. Yes, Ted is AFRAID of some activist who is clearly challenging "the establishment"

Bugga bugga BOO!

Ted, my boy? Whatever you do don't look under your bed tonight. :eyes:

Me? I've lived under Martial law and seen decapitated bodies. :wow: That's surreal - that's true FEAR.

But hell, if you want to be afraid for your safety by some *goof ball* activist who was clearly challenging only Kerry, then BE AFRAID ... after all, in a post 9/11 world - our illustrious authority figures are GODS. :(

[blm]

80. He pushed and shoved through how MANY OTHER STUDENTS? He was NOT the only person w/rights

there - and it's ironic that his physical abuse of the others as well as his superior attitude over THEM is being overlooked.

Post Virginia Tech those other students had no right to fear any level of physical aggressiveness by another student?

[Vektor]

15. Shhh! The unabashed truth from several witnesses is not welcome here.

It's way more fun for the haters to believe that fascist pig Kerry stood by salivating while an "innocent person asking a simple question" was cuffed, battered, and tasered at high voltage until he seized up and shit himself blind.

[barb162]

33. Great post.

Yeah, who cares why the audience was clapping what that jerk had the mike cut off?

[Major Hogwash]

63. Other people at the same event see things differently.

And Kerry didn't do a damned thing to stop what was happening to Andrew.

It isn't just "haters" that think Kerry should have done more.
That's a pretty broad brush to use for anyone who criticizes Senator Kerry.

But, everyone in that auditorium knew that Andrew was being tasered.
So, when Kerry said yesterday that he didn't know that he had been tasered until he left the building, I don't believe him.

[karynnj]

79. How do you know that everyone knew he was being tasered?

Looking at the size of the room, knowing Kerry was on the far other side - and that there were bright stage lights - it is very believable. The video is jumpy - and it is an angry scene - Meyers himself contributed significantly to that - he was out of control and out of control at a large public event.

Kerry couldn't stop it when they started to kick him out - it was not his decision. He did signal it was ok with him for the guy to stay.

The whole story is not even out - there will be an investigation - until then there are even stories that they did not even taser him.

[Major Hogwash]

93. Because Andrew was still in the auditorium where he was tasered, and Kerry was still there.

Instead of reading all of the statements that were being made here at DU by people who weren't even there, I went to the Florida newspaper sites where the students were commenting and I read what they had to say - students that were there that day.

They talked about the videos that had been put up at the YouTube site of this incident.
There is more than just one "jumpy video".
There are about 17 different videos, and many of them are from different angles.
Many kids used their camera phones to capture what was going on there.

In one video, Kerry can clearly be seen still on stage, after Andrew has already been thrown to the ground and handcuffed.
Andrew is still in the auditorium - at the back, but still in the auditorium.
Other students were watching, from their seats, as the cops yelled at Andrew - after he was handcuffed, on the ground, with 6 campus police on him - before he was tasered.

Let me make this clear for you - Andrew was already on the floor and handcuffed - before he was tasered.

One campus cop pulled the taser from his belt - within the very first minute just after the microphone had been cut off, when the 2 other campus cops were trying to bend Andrew's arms behind his back.
That cop was standing only about 20 feet from the stage, where Kerry was standing.
That cop holstered his taser when that big, black cop came down the aisle and picked Andrew up and carried him up the aisle, sort of, and they headed toward the exit.

There is no way Kerry didn't know that Andrew was tasered.
One female student screamed at the cops and asked "why are you doing this?" just before they tasered Andrew.
Another female student screamed when they tasered Andrew and she was 25 feet away from where Andrew was laying on the floor.

[karynnj]

101. I was not speaking of DU people there were

accounts from people there.

This was a large auditorium and Meyer was at the far end. There were 700 people there. Kerry was at the opposite end, on stage with stage lights on there. It is entirely possible at that distance that he could not see what was going on.

He may have seen his surrounded by cops - but as they were on the ground - he may not have. He certainly would not have seen or heard that he was tasered.

PS at 25 feet, the girl was FAR closer to Meyer.

[Vektor]

85. Kerry cannot

"stop the police" from doing their job.

Not to mention that those who felt threatened by this person, who was belligerent and out of control don't feel the police SHOULD have been stopped. I made no "broad brush" insult. There are a hell of a lot of haters slithering out of the woodwork to attack Kerry for "not stopping" a belligerent punk from getting his wrists slapped by the cops.

1.) That situation was between the disruptor and the police, and the disruptor brought it on, after a whole lot of planning, and setting up his buddy with the camera to catch his fifteen minutes of fame on tape.

2.) Kerry shouldn't have stopped the police. He shouldn't even have raised a verbal objection, on the moron's behalf, which he did. The disruptor intended to get arrested and make a martyr of himself. He got what he wanted, AND what he deserved. You disrupt, frighten people, do not comply when asked to leave an event which you have caused a scene at, become aggressive, and push and shove the cops, you bet you're gonna get a little roughed up. That's the way it works, and Meyer got exactly what he went in there hoping for.

Cry me a river.

[Major Hogwash]

92. Kerry was there and he could have told the cops to stop - Bush would have!

And that's the difference, Vektor.

You are star struck with Kerry.
I am not.

[karynnj]

102. Bush would have - I think you jumped the shark there

You are as biased against Kerry as anyone is star struck by him.

[Major Hogwash]

104. No, I'm not the one who is biased about this incident.

I'm not a member of any group or forum discussing other members of the DU forum.
I looked at this incident as objectively as I could.

Many of the students that were there said that Bush would have stopped it, if this would have happened to him.
So, you can see, Kerry has a severe perception problem in Florida if that is what they were saying.
I just happen to agree with them, is all.

But, it's not worth getting your feelings hurt over it.
So, this is my last comment on the subject.

[karynnj]

105. I did not see any comment of that sort

If it were said, there's a more logical explanation.
I suspect Bush would have had him out as soon as he ran to the front, without letting him ask a question. I seriously doubt the "it" refers to what the police were doing to the kid.

[Vektor]

103. Nice assumption.

Start struck?

That's funny. You hold onto that.

Bush would have told the cops to stop? Doubt it. Highly doubt it.

Kerry had no reason to ask them to stop. The young man was violent and disruptive. That's what you're not getting. There was no reason to stop the police. There was every reason to stop the perp, though.

Again, I have to laugh at the star struck thing.

[Cameron27]

17. Ah, thank you

it's nice to have a first hand report. The attention-hound's freedom of speech has to be weighed against the issue of crowd safety, and Kerry's safety too, so they were right to remove him, but I don't understand why that many cops couldn't subdue him without tasering.

Kerry did the right thing, he tried to keep everyone calm and I doubt he could see the tasering, but it wouldn't have been appropriate for him to try to second guess the police. People do want to hurt our guys, they've killed enough of them already...I never want that to happen again.

[Ravachol]

27. From what I've read in all those threads...

Most people who disagree with the situation point out at the unnecessary display of force done by the cops. Has nothing to do with Kerry. Having watched the video of the event, Kerry seems to have acted in a very polite manner, trying to calm down the whole thing. So it has nothing to do with him.

The problem, to me, is between the police force and this guy. Yes, the guy was clearly disruptive. Throwing him out would have been more than enough. Three cops were all that was needed to escort him out of the basement and making sure he stays out for the remaining of the event. There was no need to brutally get him on the ground and tase him. His reaction was obviously a defensive reaction: he possibly didn't expect to get manhandled that way and was surprised, reacting instinctively, waving his hands around, trying to get free. To remain calm when you are - violently - arrested, you need to be prepared. He wasn't. Yet, the argument saying he was a danger to anyone or himself is pure bullshit. They were five on him, it should have been a matter of seconds to scuffle him. Nothing can justify the tasering that occured.

It is, indeed, a sobering reminder of the sorry state of affairs in the USA of A. People are used to fascist tactics and don't mind the daily police brutality: these people cheered as he was being tasered. And "progressives", on many boards, are busy defending the cops.

[zulchzulu]

31. Go shoplift tomorrow

Hey, the damn store and their stupid rules...who the hell do they think they are?

So you wanted some frozen lobster...you wanted it dammit!

The damn store thinks that they can impose their little rules on you! Fascists! Owners! People with jobs!

Now they want to arrest you! For merely not following basic rules! How dare they!

We progressives need to tell the cops that we're just sick of following rules and interrupting...stuff...yunno?

:sarcasm:

[mike_c]

41. that is utterly ridiculous....

Sheesh.

[Zodiak]

74. The strawmen sure are flying around, aren't they?

I see most of them come from one side of the argument, by the way.

Yesterday, I suggested that the cops should have corraled the guy to the door and talk him down (like every other time I have seen someone being disruptive in public).

Someone tried to counter that I want that method applied to bank robbers and wife beaters.

Sheesh.

[Ravachol]

56. Just that he wasn't doing anything illegal and this was no store...

But a speech with a Q&A at an university. And yes, I'm of the opinion progressives should generally refrain from cheering up a group of cops displaying excessive show of force. But then again, that's just me.

Like I said, if he was truly that disruptive, escorting him out of the basement would have done it. He wasn't making any threat and didn't have any weapon on him. He stayed clear from Kerry and didn't try to reach him. Tasers can kill. What would people be saying if the cops would have tased and killed him while doing so? "You're dead 'cause you asked a few questions and were clearly disruptive. Fair enough, you should have known better."?!

Yes, he didn't die. But he could have, in the same situation. Odds, that is all. I've never heard of people dying because they were escorted out of a building. I remember when we used to think the security at any event wasn't about making sure any "disrupter" ends up at the hospital...

[jmp]

68. "...a group of cops displaying excessive show of force."

Take your blinders off. The situation escalated BECAUSE the cops tried to use as little force as possible. One guy even tried carrying him out without even cuffing him.

Did you even watch the video? :eyes:

[jmp]

70. "Progressive" ...

Is not a synonym for "anarchist".

[Apollo11]

61. Historical perspective

Annie Kenney, together with Christabel Pankhurst, has somewhat of a run-in with Mr Winston Churchill on 13th October 1905 in the Free Trade Hall in Manchester when she posed the question to Churchill and Sir Edward Grey, "If you are elected will you do your best to make women's suffrage a Government measure?".

http://www.iknow-northwest.co.uk/tourist_information/manchester/oldham/saddleworth.htm


Campaign for Women's suffrage continues

On 14 October, two young women decided to go to prison rather than pay a fine for causing a disturbance. Christabel Pankhurst and Annie Kenney were the first to be jailed for demanding the right to vote.

Uproar broke out at Manchester Free Trade Hall, England, when the women demanded to know if a Liberal government would give women the vote. Their protest came at the end of an election address by leading Liberal politician Sir Edward Grey, when Pankhurst and Kenney stood up and unfurled their banner, saying "Votes for Women". Their behaviour provoked an angry reaction from the crowd, who threw the two into the street, where they were arrested by police.

In 1903, Christabel Pankhurst had founded the Women's Political and Social Union with her mother Emmeline Pankhurst, the pioneer of women's suffrage. The arrest marked a new militancy in what would have been a peaceful political campaign.

http://library.thinkquest.org/27629/chronicle/1905.html


Christabel Pankhurst
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Christabel Pankhurst (September 22, 1880 – February 13, 1958) was a suffragette born in Manchester, England.

Along with her mother Emmeline and others, Christabel co-founded the Women's Social and Political Union (WSPU) in 1903. In 1905, Christabel Pankhurst interrupted a Liberal Party meeting by shouting demands for voting rights for women. She was arrested and along with fellow suffragette Annie Kenney went to prison rather than pay a fine as punishment for their outburst. Their case gained much media interest and the ranks of the WSPU swelled following their trial. Emmeline began to take more militant action for the suffragette cause after her daughter's arrest and was herself imprisoned on many occasions for her principles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christabel_Pankhurst

[cui bono]

62. Those poor students "felt unsafe" because of that?

They might as well not graduate and go out into the real world then. They might have anxiety attacks from the fright reality gives them.

:eyes:

[Vinca]

66. Tasers were originally introduced to reduce the number of

people shot by police. So . . . look at it this way. Should they have shot the guy? Of course not. Tasers have reportedly killed 70 people over the past few years. Without knowing the medical history of a person, a cop is playing Russian roulette if he/she uses the device for anything other than a substitute for lethal force.

[BeyondGeography]

69. Good luck with that whole maturity thing, Andrew

Dope.

[Totally Committed]

72. There is no reason why a U.S. citizen should be tasered for asking a question. Period.

I don't care how unruly he was. I don't care how rude he was. This is the United States of America. That sort of thing has no business happening here.

Why are so many missing this point??????

TC

[Apollo11]

81. Strongly agree

Why were the police trying to remove this guy from the room, before Kerry had responded to his questions?

It's not like he was armed and dangerous.

I am shocked that so many people here on DU think that the police's job to keep everyone in line.

That's not what the police are for!

Their job is to protect the public and fight crime.

Not keep everyone in line. IN A FREE COUNTRY !!!!

[jmp]

83. Poor guy was just standing there ...

Asking a question when *ZAP* ... some rogue cops tasered him out of the blue.

Hmmm ... maybe people are missing the point because it is nonsense?

[Apollo11]

87. No cop ever went over the top

And the moon is made of freakin' swiss cheese. :eyes:

[LanternWaste]

91. Nor has any professional drama-queen ever gone over the top.

Nor has any professional drama-queen ever gone over the top.

[zulchzulu]

77. Another observer at the event has some more interesting input on Meyer

An avid prankster and politico, Meyer is a regular at local Gainesville political events. In the past, he has stood on a major street corner with a sign proclaiming "Harry dies" in the final book of the Potter series. His personal website lists interests that include "getting wasted." (http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/)

Moments before publicly berating Senator Kerry - who was gracious enough to allow the question beyond the allotted time available - he gave his own video camera to a complete stranger nearby, simply to ensure that the incident would be recorded. There are also some who have said that he was warned of his impending arrest, though he repeatedly asks "Why are you arresting me?" while it was happening.

One can reasonably assume that the goal of this action was publication. Meyer's personal friends have publicly stated otherwise.

Now, reports are coming forth that Meyer himself told police, "You didn't do anything wrong," once cameras were out of sight. As one of the first to see him in the downstairs lobby of the UF Auditorium, I can say that he was visibly calm and collected - until a crowd began to form.

http://news.google.com/news?client=safari&rls=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=wn&ncl=1120931376&hl=en&btclp=1&scoring=r

On the charges:
"Meyer was arrested on charges of resisting an officer and disturbing the peace, according to Alachua County jail records, but the State Attorney's Office had yet to make the formal charging decision. Police recommended charges of resisting arrest with violence, a felony, and disturbing the peace and interfering with school administrative functions, a misdemeanor."

http://www.gameshout.com/news/andrew_meyer_arrested_tasered_at_john_kerry_speech/article9538.htm

[Vektor]

86. This needs to be it's own thread, on the front page.

It might shed a little light on the motives of this professional disruptor. At least for the sane people on this site who have the ability to understand reason.

[Apollo11]

88. Breaking News: College kid enjoys "getting wasted"

This person clearly deserves whatever kinds of physical obstruction, restraint or violence the authorities decide to visit upon him.

[alcibiades_mystery]

78. "I would have been at risk."

Oh, please.

Fucking Kool-aid head right there.

[mistertrickster]

98. Totally agree. Kids his age are shooting Al Qaeda in Iraq and this guy

is all scared of a little political arm waving . . .

[zulchzulu]

89. Woman who shot the video said Kerry tried to stop the police

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/09/witness_defends_kerry_response.html#comments

So much for trashing Kerry...

[mistertrickster]

97. Well, if he burst into line and made a scene, he should have been

hauled out before he even got a chance to ask a question.

On edit--so what if he "intended to make a scene." That's what CodePink does, don't they? That's what Cindy Sheehan does.

As for Mr. Green Shirt feeling "threatened," crap, man, grow a pair.

What wussies we Americans have become . . .

[Cha]

99. The police are on administrative

leave now pending an investitation. Sounds like the students are used to taser already..I'm not.