An honest question: Did Dean really inspire or did George Bush?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

In reading the threads, I repeatedly see that Howard Dean has inspired people who have never voted. I take this at face value to be true.

However, if I look at the catalyst for Howard Dean, certainly the policies of George Bush have to come into play. After all, would Dean even have a platform on which to inspire these people were it not for George Bush's pre-emptive war?


The reason I ask this is because certainly if Dean is the inpsiration, then those votes would more LIKELY not be transferrable, but if Bush were the catalyst, then one can see that there is more impetus regardless of whether Dean gets the eventual nod or not.

(BTW, I am getting ready to leave the house...so I will be "posting and running..but will return to this thread later lest anyone dream of accusing me of a hit piece)

[Skwmom]

1. George Bush.

Dean wouldn't have had any anger to tap into if it wasn't for George Bush.

[corporatewhore]

2. i dont think that dean is inspiring

that much i mean he did take advantage of the antiwar/bush movement but when i listened to him speak in person ididnt find him very uplifting i found him to be perputating hate (easy to do when dubya is involved).I first heard kucinich speak at the national campus greens convention he moved me and that whole audience of greens and dems and indies. I rember a while ago some one told me that we cant go on a hatefilled doomfilled rant when trying to communicate w/people my friend also used the analogy of the conservative movement like the titanic goin down and we have to pull up with a party boat to get people to jump out of the sinking ship on to our boat (like we have to offer a better and positive alternative)

[Rose Siding]

3. Dean

Primarily but with supporting characters. Bush had a part and a larger role was played by the Democratic "leadership"

This diary entry on Daily Kos resonnates with me.
snip>
By October, my feelings were hardening against our Democratic "leaders." By the time they voted on Iraq, on October 16, 2002, I made sure to tune in to C-SPAN that evening for the Senate speeches - not because I thought anything good would happen, but because I wanted to be present. I wanted to see history, grim as it was. I wanted to be able to tell my grandchildren, if I had any, how the Iraq war had been allowed to happen by our own leaders.

I wanted to see the small, hollow justifications by the "great and the good" such as Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton - the eternal parade of mincing ordinariness, and compromise in the face of critical moments, that shambles down through the ages, solves nothing, and brings only error that creates the need for the truly great men and women of our times (whoever they will be). Senator Robert Byrd, of course, stood firm and delivered an excellent speech, but he was only a Cassandra, and he knew he was.

But I had to watch, I had to witness this history.

The fall of 2002 was, for me, spent in talking about the war with whoever I could, and supporting the growing anti-war protests... but as we all know, they didn't grow fast enough, although they surely were impressive. And every once in a while, this Howard Dean guy would keep popping up to say things which were just common sense. I would wonder when he would finally stop saying these things, since everyone else was stopping. But every few weeks there would be something new from him, just a breath of air for those of us who were choking on the crap being pumped out by our media -- outlets I used to trust (don't laugh) like CNN, like the big flagship papers.

For many weeks, months even, Howard Dean was the only one even near to a position of political leadership and initiative, and who was getting any coverage, saying things that were little periodic beacons from the alternate world of sanity, in a strong and confident and provocative voice. The only one. more..............


http://nyco.dailykos.com/story/2003/12/28/2167/2733

[dd123]

4. Nope Dean is the inspiration.

I first latched on to Dean over the Iraq war and anger over Bush, but my inspiration since then has more to do with his vision of America, about justice and about community and common goals.

His announcement speech made me cry...

His speech regarding race was incredible...

The way he lives his life and has so much respect for his wife gives me such confidence in him as a man, husband and father.

I love the way he rebelled against the establishment early in his life, seeking meaning by helping people and becoming a Doctor instead of an easy cushy life on Wall Street.

So in answer to your question, I found Gov. Dean through Iraq and Bush dislike, I stayed for the man and his vision.

[Hep]

5. *sigh*

Dean supporters want to beat Bush. We're just not as likely to work as hard for anyone else as we have for Dean. I know I won't. Frankly, I bristle at the idea of standing side by side with those who have gone so far out of their way to marginalize my effort and my candidate.

Forgive my curt response, but this question doesn't make any sense to me. It all seems so obvious. Bush has mobilizied democrats to actively work to get him out of office, while the individual candidate inspires the supporter to GOTV for him. Presence of one inspiration does not negate or diminish the presence of the other.

Why on earth would anyone think it has to be one or the other?

Is this what people sit around and think about?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. I really don't think it means one or the other

but it is described in those terms, here so often and that is why I ask.

BTW, I know there are some that have gone out of their way to marginalize your candidate, but don't consider myself to be one of them.

I give credit to him where it is due but DO have my disagreements with him.

[dsc]

6. It depends on the supporter you are talking to

For me it is a combination. Dean's defense of civil unions did inspire me. I was very lukewarm to Clinton in 1992 due to his non existent record in regards to gay rights. By 1996 Clinton had a good record and I was proud of his presidency. In 2000, I was very devoted to Gore who I really felt got the issue. Dean gets it even more. But, that said, Bush inspires great fear in me as well. I am certainly transferrable to every candidate. I don't think I can speak for every Dean supporter, though I see that skwmom feels she can.

[OrAnarch]

7. Ive never voted...

..not sure if I ever will due to deeply held philosophical beliefs.


That being said, HD would be one candidate to perhaps inspire me to participate in such a governmental system that I disagree with, but not due entirely to his stance on the Iraq war, but mostly due to his vision and call for a new "social contract" and era of liberalism in America.


Despite that, I must say that GWB domestic and internal policies also pose some bit of incentive to vote too, but that alone is not enough is there is not a clear alternative to vote for. With this bunch, there are a couple IMHO.

[mandyky]

9. Definitely Dean inspires

Remember back when we here at DU were calling Daschel, Gephardt and Pelosi, the pink tutu crowd. No matter what republican we were facing, if the Dems were caving the way they have for shrub, Dean would have inspired.

I mean get real when Ted Kennedy, the consumate liberal, votes for No Child Left Behind (with no funding and too many mandates), it makes Democrats nuts.

[Fleshdancer]

10. good question

Not just ABB.

Would Dean have inspired me as much if I truly thought the Democrats in DC were doing their job and voicing healthy opposition and asking the tough questions when it was most important and necessary? Maybe not. Back in 2000 I thought the Dems were doing a horrible job carving out the differences between our ideals and the Republicans, but nothing could prepare me for the 2002 elections.

Democrats were being compared to OBL or Hussein, labeled unpatriotic, accused of not caring about Homeland Security and what did our party do??? No really, what did our party do? I didn't see them defend themselves and I sure as hell didn't see them stick up for me. I saw them get kicked in the teeth and do nothing. I'm sick of it.

Dean is a fighter. I agree where he stands on many positions and he's a fighter. He had the courage to say what we were all thinking when others were too busy playing politics or cowering in fear. This is how he inspires me. His campaign has given me a way to channel my anger into action and the meet-ups are a monthly reminder that I am not alone in my opposition and sanity.

At the end of the day, I can handle my anger toward the current administration. I knew from day one I wouldn't like them (although I didn't anticipate it being THIS bad), but my dissapointment in my own party is what really upsets me.

[calimary]

18. This TOTALLY nails it.

I don't know what to find most reprehensible - the crimes of the bushies or the fact that MY pansy-ass of a party failed to stand up to him, AT ALL. He didn't HAVE to win any mandate, fair 'n' square. OUR valiant representatives handed him one, on a nice big silver platter.

Assholes. And after awhile, it became evident, at least to me, that there was just ONE voice shouting out against this. It was Howard Dean's. And I was listening for someone, ANYONE, to start saying what I felt. And I listened as hard as I could. And all I heard was him.

So I'm a Dean supporter, from last February.

[TLM]

11. While I had voted before... Dean most certainly did inspire me...

While all these other dems were laying down for Bush and trying to get pictures int eh rose garden so they could run on a platform of being the bestest Bush supporters... suddenly here comes this guy out of Vermont with a great moderate record who is willing to stand up and fight back.

Dean inspired me because he showed me what this party used to be and shows me that we can be that again. Dean stood up and said unashamedly that he was a democrat and he was proud of that fact. Meanwhile Clark wouldn't even say he was a democrat and Kerry was voting for ever stick bomb that Bush sent down the pipe.

When I saw Dean speech tot he new york teachers union, he inspired my like no politician ever had. And he's done nothing but continue to impress me since then.

[NashVegas]

12. I Don't Know About 'Never Voted'

But I would easily say it's attracted people who've never been part of an active campaign.

[Cheswick2.0]

13. Dean

his courage and his campaign both inspire. Before I looked at Dean and really checked out his website, issues and grassroots effores, I was depressed about all the candidates. Dean inspires me.

[MercutioATC]

14. Dean. Absolutely Dean.

Sure, I would have voted for the Dem candidate vs. Bush,but I've never given money to a campaign before and never actively campaigned for a candidate before. I've done both (more than I originally expected to) for Dean.

Is my vote "transferable"? Absolutely. I'll vote for whomever the Dem candidate proves to be.

Do I feel more part of the process than I ever have in the past? Yes. Having a candidate that's not just the "lesser of two evils" makes an amazing difference. I support Dean 100% and will do what I can to see him nominated because I feel that he's our best chance to affect the changes we need.

[candy331]

16. Never voted before but

this time around I will and would have to say after I started paying attention to politics this year Dean was the one who inspired me to vote. Even though Bush has mucked up everything I probably would have just said what difference does it make that the politicians will do what they want so why bother voting, but Dean came with a message and passion behind that message and got me motivated.

[Killarney]

15. Good question. I say both

I say both because, firstoff yes GWB inspired. Inspired all of us to want him out. But then, who took that inspiration and ran with it to the lead (the lead in money, polls, etc.)... Dean. So, that's why I say both. And it's still early, so who knows if Dean will keep his lead, but right now no one can say that he has not inspired people. He would not be where he is if he didn't. Someone else would be in that lead spot.

[askew]

17. Dean is definitely the inspiration.

For me, the inspiration is Dean. While I first drawn to Dean's campaign because he was anti-Iraq war, once I listened to Dean speak it wasn't about "just" the Iraq war anymore. Dean represents hope for our country's future. And I am not a first-time voter.

[BootinUp]

19. Of course there is a connection

When people are angry, they will find an outlet for that. Dean was one of the first to capitalize on it. Plus he is good, I've listened to him a couple times and he gets me fired up. But then I'm easily fired up about Bushie, most Americans like him.