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[NashVegas]

1. Because Edwards Hasn't Been Shit On

By a concerted effort to derail his candidacy.

[AP]

6. He has been ignored.

And they have shit on him, but he's turned lemons into lemonade.

Remember when they said he should make up his mind about running for Senate? Remember when they said NC'ians didn't like him? Remember when they said Edwards who?

Well, he's proven them wrong on every count.

[stickdog]

23. Remember when they stopped saying anything bad about Edwards ever?

It's because they finally realized his perfection!

Hooray!

[mzmolly]

28. LOL...

;)

[AP]

40. I don't even know what you two are saying. On Leno last Friday,

Leno "slipped" and said Edwards was running for the "Vice Presidency...oops...I mean the Presidency."

Edwards laughed and pointed at him and said that wasn't an accident. He was good natured about it, but the fact is that Leno, who whores for Bush whenever Roves askes GE to do so, planted the seed that the right wing is using to prevent Edwards from being the nominee and that is that he's reallly running to be VP.

[Nazgul35]

2. Because candidates who start out

as the front runner and fall behind should never be taken seriously again!

I'm mean why would you ever consider supporting someone who has dropped behind his obvious betters when.....

Oh, wait a minute.......sorry Senator Kerry.....

[indigo32]

19. smokin!!!!

LOL

[AP]

3. Because Edwards has 50% more pledged delegates, and has gotten twice

as many actual votes so far, and because Edwards has less money and less awareness, but everywhere he goes more and more people like him, yet the more people know about Dean, the less they like him, and Dean has had no problems getting his message to the people, thanks to having twice as much money and more coverage than all the other candidates combined.

[stickdog]

25. Dean has beaten Edwards in 5 of the last 7 races and 5 of the 7

blue state races.

Edwards is a regional candidate, and the primaries so far have been biased toward his strongest regions -- Bush country.

[efront]

58. Look at the states that Edwards has spent any time and money

in...Iowa-2nd, SC-win, Oklahoma-close 2nd, MO-2nd, TN-2nd, Va-2nd, Wisco-looks like 2nd. Dean has not beat Edwards in any states where JRE spent time or money, besides New Hampshire.

[KittyWampus]

61. Look At How Many Races Clark Beat Him

while the media was busy assasinating him.

[AP]

63. Look at who has won more delegates. If candidates are running to win

anything else besides delegates, they're too dumb to be president and someone should tell them right away that they're running to accumulate delegates.

[RetroLounge]

71. Shhhhh. Don't confuse them with fact.

must follow the script...

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

[West Coast Democrat]

4. Momentum

[stickdog]

26. Dean has beaten Edwards head to head in 5 of the last 7 races.

Try again.

[West Coast Democrat]

36. But Edwards has done better than Dean in various parts of.......

the country.

[stickdog]

44. Iowa & Red States only. (nt)

[West Coast Democrat]

48. We'll see how well Edwards does in Wisconsin

and go from there.

[rucky]

5. They're separated by about 10 delegates & a mile of raised expectations.

The one with lowered expectations always stays in the longest. Bush made a career out of it.

If Edwards catches the "big mo" on Super Tuesday, it'll be well-timed. Dean already had his shot - it's not in the script to catch big 'mo twice.

[Nazgul35]

7. you mean like Kerry did...

.

[AP]

10. They're separated by 46 pledged delegates. Edwards has WON 50% more than

Dean.

This is race for pledged delegates, and Edwards is beating Dean.

It isn't a race for number of states won, and it isn't a race for total votes (however, Edwards has more than twice as many as Dean). It's a race for Delegates, and the only reason Dean's ahead is because of unpledged delegates, and there's no way they're going to stick with Dean in the end if their votes are going to mean that someone who got fewer pledged delegates will beat anyone who got more pledged delegates.

[Dookus]

8. Because

the Dean collapse will be the biggest political story of the year, after the election itself. It was a spectacular implosion that will be studied for years to come.

Also, the fact of the matter is that it's largely an expectations game. Edwards has exceeded expectations while Dean has fallen consistently short.

[JackRiddler]

18. The studies will be essential...

to hide the already obvious fact that Dean was clobbered by a coordinated media campaign (plus the offensive of corrupt Democratic operators).

[Dookus]

50. yuh huh....

or maybe the studies will simply report that most people voted for somebod else.

[vi5]

9. Because Edwards has won a primary....

...and also placed second in a couple of them. I think overall he has placed better than Dean in most states. But even if they were tied for the number of second place finishes, Edwards won S. Carolina and Dean hasn't won a primary yet.

[AP]

11. What matters is winning more pledged delegates, and Edwards is beating

Dean by 50%.

[vi5]

16. Uh...yeah, I know....preaching to the choir here....

I think the answer to the question posed by the initial post was obvious. But I was just listing one of the several reasons why perception of Edwards is different than that of Dean. I like Edwards and he deserves the sucess that he has had and I wish him continued success.

I like Dean as well, but more than a few of his problems are of his own doing and as many on this thread, it's a matter of expectations.

[stickdog]

27. Dean has beaten Edwards head to head 9 of 16 times and 5 of the last 7.

Try again.

[NV1962]

12. Because there's interest in him "imploding"

Which is shameful twice: for one, as you point out, because he has a lot of energized support, and two, because it's unsavory to orchestrate burial ceremonies when the "body" is very much alive and kicking the ass of those wanting him to disappear.

It's disturbingly anti-democratic and anti-Democrat.

[BOSSHOG]

13. Expectations

Per expectations based on hype, polls, ????, Dean should have the nomination wrapped up now. He is the victim of his own success; and any support he receives is expected. Nothing so outlandish as "second place" was expected of Senator Edwards, therefore, he is a success merely by continuing to receive support.

[stickdog]

29. Bullshit. The media completely wrote Dean off after NH.

Dean has exceeded expectations in MI, ME & WA.

Notice that those results were all non-stories.

Dean has beaten Edwards head to head in 5 of the last 7 contests. Have you read that anywhere but right here?

[BOSSHOG]

34. Thanks for proving my point Stickdog

Dean won "5 of the last 7" against Edwards and whomever. Per hype of media and supporters prior to the first caucus Dean would win 7 of 7 against Edwards, Kerry, King Kong, Godzilla and whomever else was in the race. He hasn't met "expectations" therefore he has failed. Ergo, my answer to the original question. If Dean supporters were swayed by the media after NH then that support must have been tepid at best.

[killbotfactory]

14. He threatens the status quo

And that is unnacceptable.

[AP]

15. Edwards is a bigger threat to corporatocracy because he could actually

get elected and could pass his tax plan and could articulate a vision of shifting wealth to people who work for a living which people would embrace.

[NV1962]

17. Google for "Kerry BCCI" - n/t

[AP]

21. Google: Bush cronies control world despite BCCI trial. If you haven't

noticed, nothing Clinton or Kerry did before 2000 was enough to stop Bush and his cronies from running the world into the ground since 2000.

[NV1962]

30. Nice dodge

You really want a champion with a champion's track record on fighting corporate corruption and organized crime? John Kerry welcomes your support.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

39. Kerry has a record of fighting and losing

The more suspicious types would think that Kerry's "investigations" are more like "white-washes".

[AP]

42. The corporations have been winning with Kerry fighting them.

[NV1962]

45. Non sequiturs for Edwards!

Man oh man... Does John Edwards know you're supporting him?

[AP]

52. That's a lame argument. You're saying Kerry has fought of the Bush crime

family evil empire. I'm telling you, pssst, Bush is running the world.

Non sequitur?

[NV1962]

53. Yes, non sequiturs are lame

You point, caller?

You brought up the angle of fighting corporate corruption; that's why I pointed out that of all current candidates, Kerry has the longest and strongest political record on fighting corporate corruption and organized crime. Simply stating a matter of fact...

[AP]

55. I said Edwards is a bigger threat to the corporatocracy. Changing the tax

code and arguing for policies which transfer wealth to people who work for a living are the the ways to undo the corporatocracy.

Now what has Kerry actually done by way of shifting wealth to people who work for a living?

Going after BCCI didn't seem to achieve all that much.

[NV1962]

56. That's my point: Edwards is "a threat" - Kerry has actually drawn blood

Edwards is not a bad candidate, but if that's your angle, you're backing the wrong guy.

[AP]

64. My angle is who's going to fight for people who work for a living against

corporations and republicans who are the things that are devaluing the thing they have to sell in order to make money -- their labor.

By that measure, I'm supporting the perfect candidate.

[NV1962]

65. Yup: Edwards' a nice promise, but Kerry actually delivers and delivered

You support a candidate who's "going to" fight - I'm backing a candidate who actually fought, fights and has the best credentials and best prospect to continue succesfully doing that.

As recognized and validated by the greater number of Democrats who have voted so far.

[AP]

66. What did he deliver? A country in which the Bush family can still take the

presidency?

[NV1962]

70. Oooooooooh... Nice dodge again!

So, what has Edwards done in that regard?

Democratic voters want less glowing rhetoric (admittedy, that's Edwards' forte) and more security that Bush is ousted in November.

Your rhetoric snafu notwithstanding, whodathunkit.

[AP]

73. Edwards brought an end to the rule of the corporate pig farmers and the

Helms machine and brought in a Dem governor who felt the same way he did.

[Exgeneral]

41. Just wondering how the eighth richest trial lawyer in the US

or whatever rank of super wealthy he is, would go about doing that, and what he would base this on.

[AP]

43. You made that up.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

20. Because Edwards has WON a state

and come in second place a few times. Dean has not won any states. That's the main issue.

[stickdog]

31. The main issue is that the media wants Dean out to get their

safe DLC vs. DLC horse race by attacking John Kerry (which will also soften him up for the Repukes).

But they won't risk attacking Kerry so long as Dean harbors any chance of benefitting.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

35. I don't think so

The Corporate Media certainly has their agenda, but aside from Dean's re-regulation and breaking up media companies ideas (which did hurt him) he's not much of a threat to the status quo.

I think Dean fans on DU tend to exagerate his anti-establishment credentials. If Dean hadn't have fallen apart so spectacularly in Iowa and New Hampshire, the coverage would be quite different. If Edwards hadn't have won SC and come in number 2 in other states (from nowhere) his coverage would be different as well.

[stickdog]

46. Aside from the thing they care about most, Dean's not much of a threat

to them?

What kind of an argument is that?

[burning bush]

62. Dean didn't "Fall Apart"

He was ripped apart.

But thats okay, spread the official talking points, we don't need to be bothered with silly things like truth and accuracy.

We are the New Democratic Party!

woo hoo.

[0rganism]

60. You sure? I seem to recall Dean being a member of the DLC

I think the media could have its safe DLC-vs-DLC horse race without eliminating Howard Dean.

[stickdog]

72. That's cool. The last three years have been a real trip, though.

A few things happened that you may have missed.

[Jacobin]

22. Because Kerry hasn't threatened to break up media

monopolies?

I dunno, just a guess.

[sadiesworld]

24. The media is desperate to finish one of them off

because Kerry wins a 3 man race. Dean needs to go b/c he is already damaged, his views about the Iraq war are looking downright brillant, and a disgruntled Dean camp is more likely to cause problems in the GE.

[stickdog]

33. The media is desperate to finish Dean off. (nt)

[Skwmom]

32. The Republican talking heads and corporate media

have been pushing Edwards for quite awhile. They want to push Dean from the race so that they have a better chance of pushing Edwards to the front (please spare me any - the "media loves a horse race" crap).

[Leilani]

49. They have been pushing Edwards since Iowa

Clark beat Edwards in New Hampshire; who did you hear about?

Clark beat Edwards in Ariz, N Mexico, N Dakota, Oklahoma & who did you hear about?

While supporters were sending millions to Dean & Clark, who did you hear about? Edwards & Kerry.

I feel for the Dean people; our candidates were marginalized: either no press or negative press.

[stickdog]

51. Yep. Same ol same ol. (nt)

[SEAburb]

37. Aren't you excited about the prospect of a Edwards - Kerry pillow fight

Neither challenging the other on the issues. Giving the same monologues over and over again. Neither get damaged before GE and the base gets put to sleep.

[Exgeneral]

38. My thoughts exactly

no fat lady until after California, which may just on general principle give a nod to Howard Dean.

And I never DID hear the final vote tally in Washington OR Maine.

[candy331]

47. Any number of answers so take your

pick but seems odd that anyone could feel threatened by a dead man.Is that fear I keep smelling?

[efront]

54. Because Edwards has done much better in states

that he's actually spent time and money in, and he's shown huge upward movement in each state he spends time in. Iowa, 2nd place with 32%, wins South Carolina, very close 2nd in Oklahoma with 30%, 2nd in Missouri, and 2nd in TN and VA. Also, he hasn't flopped anywhere. Besides New Hampshire, Dean hasn't beat Edwards in any state that Edwards has paid attention to.

[democratreformed]

57. Pete, I will never understand why SEVERAL of our candidates were never

(and are still not)given the respect they deserve. I'm afraid I can't help you understand. I, myself, don't understand. It takes a lot of guts for someone to run for POTUS. All of them are deserving of respect. It is shameful the way the media makes it out to be a big hoo-ha. It is even more shameful how much influence they have on the outcome.

[eileen_d]

59. I think part of the reason Dean is being treated differently

is that he was the media's "annointed one" in late 2003, and then he did not win either of the first two contests. "The bigger they are, the harder they fall."

Meanwhile, Edwards' showing in both of those races was better than expected, at least for me -- I admit I didn't pay much attention to Edwards until Iowa, and that may just be my own perception. But I don't recall Edwards getting much media coverage before he won a primary. Once he did, the media started "discovering" him through more coverage. (This part of my theory is a bit sketchier)

IMO the Dean post-mortems in the media today are disgusting and unfair. I think the media is impatient to narrow the field down, and Dean is taking the heat because he did not meet the expectations that had built up for him. Again, this is not fair at all to Dean and his supporters, and I do not think he should drop out at all.

[littlejoe]

67. they are both equally in unwinnable situations.

[arewethereyet]

68. if you have to ask I don't think there is any explaining it

[arwalden]

69. Dean Climaxed Too Early

and is unlikely to recapture his momentum. He appears to be running out of steam and appears to be losing support. Some of that support appears to be now focused on Edwards. Edwards is starting to build and show more potential and is not losing supporters.

Technically, you are correct. But for all practical purposes, it appears that Dean's days as a contender are numbered (if not over already.)

-- Allen

[West Coast Democrat]

74. Sorry, but it's clear that Edwards has the momentum over Dean

Can you see it now?