Why Dean supporters should make Dean's mind up for him.

[littlejoe]

With his campaign in a shambles, as he is now going on his third campaign manager,Howard Dean has no chance to win the nomination. At least Carol Mosely Braun, Dick Gephardt, Wes Clark and Bob Graham knew when to get out, so as not to hurt the party's chances. It appears now, that Dean's continued push is fueled more by an ego who can't decide on a graceful exit strategy.

As a former Dean supporter, one of the biggest reasons that I switched my allegiance, was that I became really angry at the way he had run his campaign. I could not stand to go through what I did four years ago with Al Gore, who I felt, at the time had run one of the most inept campaigns I had ever witnessed. Governor Dean now holds that distinction. He had everything going for him and turned it all into a string of third and fourth place finishes. And let's not forget how he squandered over thirty million dollars on Iowa and New Hampshire. He gambled everything on those two states and lost.

Last but not least there is the matter of wanting to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate, yet deciding to skip numerous states to focus only on one. I want a president who is willing to fight for every vote in every state.

To all Dean supporters: Do your candidate and the democratic party a favor and withdraw your support. Place it directly behind John Kerry and let's all go after George Bush.

[rucky]

1. This is gonna go over real well

:eyes:

[mgc1961]

49. In-coming.

:nuke:

[polpilot]

51. Another 'line up with the pro-war DLC' thread 'doesn't matter who he is'

'blah...blah..blah..'

Dean '04...

[ibegurpard]

2. No

eom

[mzmolly]

3. "Second" Campaign Manager... And as a *current* supporter I will urge

him to STAY in this race. Gawd help us all if the choice comes down to Bush v. Kerry.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. It takes a leader to tell his supporters where to go.

Dean still has a chance to do that.

[mzmolly]

6. Kerry still has a chance too.

:hi:

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. No.

Did you ask the same thing of Edwards, Kucinich, and Sharpton supporters?

[EXE619K]

13. of course not.

It's simple...process of elimination.

Pick-off the next highest threat and just go down the line from there.

[EXE619K]

7. You're right.

His supporters should choose.

I choose that he stays in the race as long as possible.

If he decides to run as a third party candidate, I will support him there too.

[HFishbine]

8. That takes a lot of nerve

I haven't had a chance to cast a vote in the primaries yet, so I'll respectfully decline your invitiation to reliquish my right to vote, thank you.

Just curious, have you voted yet? (On edit, I see from your profile that your state has already had its primary.)

[littlejoe]

15. Having outlined numerous reasons why supporters should switch,

why then do you still insist?

[Anwen]

19. Because your arguments are hollow.

His campaign is in "shambles" ? Um, last time I checked Dean was in second place behind Kerry. What would be the point of dropping out? I don't quite understand your logic.

[littlejoe]

31. To clarify your clarification

Dean is in third place, in committed delegates. As far as my arguments, those are facts. Your support rings hollow.

[Anwen]

34. Add Super-delegates

and he is in SECOND.

Out of curiosity, which of your arguments are facts?? Seriously, I would like to know. Most of it sounds like bitching about the way he ran his campaign and speculating that he has no chances.

My support rings hollow? LOL!!!! Thanks for the laugh ;-)

[Anwen]

50. No reply?

Very telling.

[EXE619K]

22. Here's a clarification for you.

The Dean campaign wasn't just about beating Bush in November.

The entire underlying theme of the movement is change. Change in the Democratic Party for their ineffective stance and their unwillingness to define themselves. Rebellion is what the Dean Camp is about. This is the clear difference between the Dean camp and the other campaigns.

You claim that you once supported Dean.

Well, I guess you missed the message.

[sillymikey]

64. bravo

:yourock: you nailed that one right on the head

[HFishbine]

24. I'd like to tell you

But I can't do it within the DU rules. You'll have to use your imagination (think barnyards and excretory functions).

[w13rd0]

28. What the f** is this? Resistance is futile?

Yeah, you are right, supporters should decide. I decide he should stay in all the way to Boston. So KMA, stupid flamebait thread.

[littlejoe]

32. Resistance is futile, and Super Tuesday will prove it.

As for flame bait, since when is it a flame to logically point out several reasons to withdraw support? And why would you be happy about the way he has run his campaign?

[w13rd0]

35. Deleted message

--wouldn't want to be accused of telling someone where they could go--

[indigo32]

29. First Off

you've got some facts incorrect. 1. He is not going on his third campaign manager. 2. he did not squander all that money in IA and NH alone. He WAS running a nationwide campaign until he lost in IA.

Second...I think there is a very valid arguement to be made that the Dem party is NOT served well by having a single candidate this early. We need to be in the news criticizing *, the story is far weaker till the convention if we only have one. Bush will be able to start aiming his 200 mill at Kerry that much earlier.

and ALL of this ignores the fact that I don't like Kerry all that much and have EVERY RIGHT to vote how I want in my caucus on Mar 2nd. Come talk to me after the convention.

[Zinnola]

9. No

Kerry will get my absentee vote only. No money or work for his campaign.

[damnraddem]

10. Uh, I think Dean's candidacy is dead, but why should he get out?

As with Kucinich, and Mosley-Braun before she dropped out, being in allows him to make his statements. What I say to Dean is that he should not attack Kerry, should take great pains to not hurt Democratic chances. What he should do is continue to attack Dubya -- he (and Kucinich) started the Dems off on that, and they have finally followed along nicely. But here's the thing: the longer the nomination battle, the better. So long as the nomination is in doubt, the Democratic candidates get the attention. That has already paid off big.

[Anwen]

11. I'll do my candidate a favor by VOTING for him

next month.

[nomaco-10]

12. Do you not realize that there is.....

nearly 9 months left til the convention? Do you also want Dennis Kucinich, John Edwards and Al Sharpton to get out? If not, why single out Dean? Dean is the best thing to happen to democracy in years, why silence him now? He and the others can speak up and speak out for weeks and months to come, it can only make our party stronger unless you feel he might weaken your candidate, in which case you're admitting your candidate must have flaws that risk being exposed. Let the process play it's self out, it is a good thing not a bad thing to experience real democracy in action.

[burning bush]

14. This is humorous

At least, I choose to see it as humorous, because I can't take the content of the message very seriously.

Dean is in 2nd place, and the only reason that I can see for you to ask for him to step down is to remove any challenges to Kerry.

But why should that happen? Why should the primary season be a coronation? It isn't, its a gut wrenching fight for the nomination.

If Kerry doesn't have the stomach for a prolonged battle, maybe his supporters should convince him to drop now...in the interest of the Democratic party, of course.

[diamondsoul]

23. As a Kucinich supporter,

I'll second this post wholeheartedly!

The OP content is pathetic and illogical.

[Egnever]

16. Haha i love the sig line at the end of your bogus post.

[sadiesworld]

17. Once Dean is out...

it will be (in effect) a 2 person race. And the media is not going to be pushing the military hero who makes Rove's carefully crafted flyboy look like a cartoon. If you like Kerry, you should want Dean to stay in.

[dave29]

18. But you should make up our mind for us

first, right ;)

[littlejoe]

42. Just voicing my opinion.

[HFishbine]

48. No

You're going beyond that. You're advocating that some of us be denied the exression of opinion you've already had an opportunity to exercise in the MO primary.

[Upfront]

20. Never

I hope he stays in untill he wins!!!!!!

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. As a Kerry supporter..

I say that Dean should remain in the race. The fat lady may be sucking in a tremendous fucking lungful of air, but she ain't sung yet. Dean and his supporters have made it clear they're in for the long haul. Even if he fails to win a single state in any of the remaining primaries, second and third-place finishes will swell his delegate count and ensure that he has a bargaining position and a voice at the convention, and also that at least some of the concerns of those who support him are incorporated into the eventual party platform. Which, I think, is WHY he's not dropping out. I've never been a Dean supporter, and I dislike many things about him, but I have to say I admire his evident dedication to try to do his best for those who have placed their faith in him and continue to do so.

[Debi]

25. You must've been one hell...

of a loyal Dean supporter to jump ship so quickly.

I'll stop supporting Howard Dean when HE tells me he no longer needs my support. How can you walk away from the candidate that taught us to hope again? How can you slam the door on the candidate that let US have a say in his campaign?

Geez, remind me not to take any Titanic cruises with you....I'll be left on deck while you're in a half-filled lifeboat paddling away....but at least you'll be the winner.

[library_max]

26. We need to stop this nonsense.

Hold the funeral until somebody has died, please. It is up to Howard Dean to decide when Howard Dean is going to drop out of the race. In the meantime, he has every right to stay in. And his supporters have every right to continue supporting him. Are we trying to antagonize them out of the party?

[littlejoe]

44. You're right. It is up to Dean to decide when to quit.

Just like it was up to Micky Mantle and Willie Mays to decide when to quit. You know what happened to them. They embarrassed themselves and their fans. If Howard Dean wants some semblence of relevence, he is going to hasve to make the tough call. Otherwise he will forever be remembered as the politician who blew the presidency.

His supporters should not end up becoming enablers.

[HFishbine]

27. Curious

Did you become a "former Dean supporter" before or after your state held its primary?

[littlejoe]

45. Before.

[HFishbine]

46. There you go, then

You had an opportunity to express your views at the ballot box. Shouldn't I have the same opportunity?

[Duder]

30. You're too late...

I've already encouraged the fiesty little bastard to do the Democratic party a favor and fight all the way to Boston.
The best you can hope for with Kerry is a replacement not a win, imo.

[BL_Zebub]

33. The Kerry/DLC Borg can assimilate my pointy-tailed ass!

Last time I checked, the race wasn't over until all the delegates are accounted for. Kerry's nowhere near that number, so he hasn't won shit.

[Debi]

36. He's won the Media Sweetheart race

And he has most of the sheep following him now.

Why think??? Just vote how Faux tells you to.

[polpilot]

52. Baaaa....baaaaaa.....baaaaaaaaaaaa...where's bo peep????

Dean '04...Not for sheeple!!

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spider Jerusalem]

39. Where is the arrogance and entitlement in my post?

Please show it to me. (Generalisations are bad.)

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spider Jerusalem]

41. Only one.

Apparently you're blind. Or maybe just obnoxious. I posted earlier on this thread stating my support of Kerry, and also the reasons why I think Dean should remain in the race. Shouldn't jump to conclusions.

(And the post I was responding to said "Kerry supporters". As I am one, yet am NOT engaging in the behaviour being decried, I found the generalisation unfair.)

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spider Jerusalem]

47. No need to insult ME.

I haven't insulted you, nor, on this thread, have I insulted Dean (nor have I made and calls for him to drop out). And I was supporting Kerry for the Democratic nomination in November 2002, not long after the mid-term elections. Do you always behave like this towards people who've done nothing to offend you, or is this just my lucky day?

[w13rd0]

53. My response wasn't a reply to you...

...but to the originator of the thread. Is that you? If not, then it's just your lucky day.

[Debi]

55. In General?

(Generalisations are bad.)

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

38. No

I have the right to support whatever candidate I want. If John Kerry gets the nomination I'll vote for him, but until then I am under no obligation to support him. Come back and talk to me in March. Late March.

On second thought, make it April.

[candy331]

54. Kind of odd thinking you have a right telling others what to do

isn't it? If that is your decision live with it but let others do the same. Some people don't sell themselves to the highest bidder because they value their own integrity and value others who live by and show the same real integrity. Phonies are a dime a dozen and can be bought in any discount store.

[Debi]

56. Or, it seems..

At a Kerry political rally

[littlejoe]

59. I don't know where you live, but where I come from,

people have been telling other people what to do since I can remember. And if the facts allow you to come to the same conclusion I have, then so much the better. And besides, aren't every one of us trying to influence each other?

[Malikshah]

57. How extremely offensive

Just when I think the discourse could not reach a lower level...threads like this get started.

If I were a Kerry supporter I would be deeply troubled by this sentimenet from a fellow supporter.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spirochete]

58. Some of you people just can't wait

to give the microphone back to Bushco with only one target to blast away at, can you. Quickly - lets establish our candidate, and give Rove as much time as possible to tear him down.

I don't think your post is going to work with the Dean supporters on this board. All the ones that would, have already jumped ship - like you.

[littlejoe]

61. Wake up. He's already zeroed in on Kerry.

It's ironic, because the republicans understand what's going on. It's time the democrats who don't support Kerry realize it. This is the brutal and honest truth, and if certain dems can't handle it, maybe a refresher course in politics might be in order.

[MercutioATC]

62. Ummm, no....my allegiances don't shift as easily as others'.

As a post above said, this campaign is as much about believing in something as it is about winning. Some seemed to miss that message.

[MurikanDemocrat]

63. You were fine expressing your own opinion until you asked others

to withdraw their support AND who to then switch it to.

You do Kerry nor Kerry supporters any favors with this.