Question;Does socialized medicine discriminate by age? There is a post regarding this implying this

[saracat]

on DU. I had never heard this.It was implied that old people have "lived their lives" and are to be sloughed off.The majority of the medical care was to go to the young and the able bodies.The oldsters have the longest waits and things such as hip replacements are not viewed as essential.Anyone know if this is really the case? The implication was if one was not supportive of this stance as a practicality, one was not in favor of socialized medicine.I would appreciate an informed opinion as I had never heard this.

[MadMaddie]

1. Do you have a link to the thread? This is bullshit.....this is

another red herring to turn people away from universal healthcare....

If the program takes the best of all of the Universal Healthcare programs from around the world.....we can take care of everyone....

[saracat]

3. I don't want to "callout" so I can't post a link.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. So ask the freep for some data and evidence.

We here in unsocialized medicine hell have the planets most expensive shitty healthcare system. All general measures of healthcare systems: cost per capita, life expectancy, infant mortality, etc. rank us at the top on the per capita measure and way into the low middle among industrialized nations on all other stats. In fact we recently were ranked 42 in life expectancy, which if your freep was right, would appear to be very odd as all the nations at the top of that list have the dreaded SOCIALIZED MEDICINE affliction. When freeps make absurd claims, asking them to substantiate the claim is generally the end of the discussion.

[saracat]

10. I don't know that they are a "freep" but I do know I do not agree.I will ask however.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. I found your thread.

He claims personal experience. I take back the freep. However, I believe he is mistaken. The statistical measures indicate that if there is any age-based traige of services it is not impacting life expectancy. It is hard to square that simple fact with assertions that a single payer system like Canada is condemning the old to death through neglect, which is what he is asserting.

[aquart]

2. According to Sicko, you live longer in socialized medicine nations.

So those old people who are getting tossed out must be very old indeed.

[saracat]

4. I hope someone from the UK or Canada responds to this.I want to know!

[question everything]

6. I don't think so, but, no doubt, universal health will ration

treatments.

After all, this is our "tax money," so at some point I can see some bureaucrats saying that we should not spend expensive limited resources in certain cases.

Most old people incur 90% of their life medical expenses during the last year of their lives. So I can see someone wondering whether, say, an 85 year old woman with diabetes and who has been a life long smoker should get a by-pass operation (she died a month later).

But it does not have to be for old people only.

There is a local case of a couple who underwent fertility treatment and would not "thin" the number of embryos. Six were born pre matured and were in ICU. As of now, only one is still alive. Would a universal health provide fertility treatment only on conditions that the couple go along with "thinning" of the embryos?

I don't know how it is in Canada, Britain, France and Germany and other countries. Many of the stories, of Canadians having to wait months for life saving MRI treatments can fall into these cases. I don't think that in these countries citizens expect to have the best medical treatment available for them at every stage of their lives, no matter the cost.

Clearly these are some of the issues that will have to be debated before we go this route. I think that we will have to have a parallel system of private insurance for the ones willing to pay, the way we have a parallel system of private schools.

[saracat]

8. I am sorry .Life at all stages should be equal.I don't think it right to do something

"whatever the cost " for some young people.Quality of life should be the decider not the age of the patient.We cannot let age determine worth.Age will, however, decide that some treatments cannot be performed and that is a medical decision NOT a determination of "worth".

[FormerDittoHead]

13. Private insurance rations treatments, probably more than Universal will..

Please don't suggest that our current system gives us the red carpet treatment...

NJ had to pass a law to FORCE private insurance companies to let women stay in hospital for 3 days after having childbirth. They wanted to only pay for ONE day, and there were no "competitors" who wanted to offer the 3 day coverage...

So the issue is NOT "ration" version "never rationed" - all health systems are rationed.

But private insurance takes 15% - 30% off the top. That's 15% - 30% MORE OF *OUR* money than what can used for healthcare, not to mentioned increase efficiently due to the expenses racked up for all the multiple billings, etc.

If you take the amount that we're paying NOW... RIGHT NOW, and put the profit back into the system that's going into the pockets of the insurance companies, you'd not only have enough left over to take care of everyone, but you could take *BETTER* care of them because you wouldn't be waiting until they got so bad that they needed to go to the emergency room, etc. (guess what - SHORTER waiting times!)

[nealmhughes]

7. Yes, but in the sense that the majority of US citizens who have "socialized medicine" are over 65

and have Medicare, not vice versa!

It's root hog or die for the rest of us.

[saracat]

9. And that is wrong as well!

[phillysuse]

11. I believe that the United Kingdom limits dialysis by age -

I am not sure where the cutoff for paying for dialysis is in the United Kingdom - it may be 75 years of age, possibly older. Dialysis is certainly a very difficult way to live and older people may not do as well as younger people. In addition, there are cutoff ages for transplants both here and in the United Kingdom.

Maybe someone from the UK has these numbers.

[JDPriestly]

12. Ridiculous.

Older people already have Medicare. It is working very well.

[Grey]

14. As an 'old' Canadian,

With an even older Husband and bunches of 'Old' friends, I have no experience with any of us being limited to health care.
An friends 84 year old mother got her hip replacement in a timely manner, It was Her second. She also had a knee replaced a few years ago. is that what you meant? What is Old?

[Progressive Friend]

15. The US has a shorter life expectancy than many countries with 'socialized medicine'

[ProudDad]

16. Only two countries I know of

HAVE "socialized medicine" and that's Cuba and Great Britain.

And the answer in those two is probably "NO"...

[Warpy]

17. End of life heroics are more strictly controlled

and palliative care, meaning comfort care, for the elderly is stressed over prolonging their lives at the cost of their quality of life.

I can live with that.

[rucky]

19. That doesn't make any sense.

"able bodies" over "non-essential" hip replacements?!

My bullshit detector is on 11.

[rog]

20. Single Payer is NOT Socialized medicine.

I thought this explanation was clear, short, and to the point ... well worth passing along. I think this is an important distinction.

.rog.

From this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3458531&mesg_id=3458531

Courtesy of DUer Yael:


FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY: SIngle-Payer is NOT Socialized Medicine!!!

We have GOT to get people to understand that. The (R) machine is scaring the crap out of the elderly with this shit.

Single-Payer means that the hospitals/Doctors remain PRIVATE and have ONE place to submit for payment as opposed to the myriad of insurance companies with their myriad of codes and payment terms. Australia, Japan and Canada are all single-payer systems.

Socialized Medicine is where the hospitals are OWNED by the government and Doctors are EMPLOYED by the government. The UK and France are Socialized systems.

If I hear one more (R) candidate on the stump railing about Socilaized medicine when not ONE of our candidates is promoting that, I think my head is going to pop right off my body.