who would be better to win the south as a V.P, Clack or Edwards?

[Dying Eagle]

I think Edwards, He has the accent, hes young and from what woman tell me attractive.

[Nashyra]

1. Clark

[beanball]

36. The Veep

Clark,southerners love military men and chicks too.

[eaprez]

2. Polls have shown

that people don't vote based on the VP. I don't believe it would make a difference.

[Dying Eagle]

5. Well

I thinlk Joe L. hurt us in the 2000 election with the Hardcore liberals that went with Nader

[eaprez]

8. You Forget

...we WON the 2000 election.

[Dying Eagle]

13. We did win 2000

but, i still thing Joe hurt us.

[DjTj]

11. I agree that neither would make a big difference.

...the VP can't do all that much outside their home state, and I don't think either has been in state politics long enough to make a huge impact. Case in point: Gore and Tennessee.

[Bucky]

40. VPs don't overcome deficiency of Prez but can enhance their strengths--ex:

Selecting Cheney helped Bush by underscoring the ties to the first Bush admin and by emphasizing their (since broken) promise to run gov't in a business like, professional manner.

Clinton's selection of Gore also helped by highlighting the centrist, southern-friendliness of the ticket. A negative example of this is how Dan Quayle helped Poppy Bush pull in the conservative vote, but later also reinforced the perception that most Republicans are insensitive motards.

Thus, VP nominees don't work as balancers, but as enhancers of the nominee's key strength. Kemp didn't make Dole more palatable to urban or minority voters, nor did Bentsen help Dukakis win the South or the national defense vote. Ferraro sure didn't enhance Mondale's position among women (the gender gap actually shrank in 1984) nor did she help win over the younger voters in the Northeast.

[DeepModem Mom]

67. Bucky, that is a really perceptive post --

Conventional wisdom re. veep selection does seem to have been turned on its head by Clinton and Bush. Lieberman may have helped Gore in Florida, but it was black voters, I think, who won the state for him. I hope you're able to share your thoughts with the Kerry campaign, and people might find a separate thread on your take on the subject interesting.

[WilliamPitt]

3. Neither, really

Edwards isn't terribly loved in his own state - one of the reasons he decided not to run for his Senate seat again is because he knew he was going to get beat - and the whole 'He has a Southern accent' thing works if you are from the North and think Southerners are suckers who fall for a similar-sounding accent. Clark has the military credentials, but doesn't really have any deep Southern roots to speak of. He says he is from Arkansas, but his base is Chicago.

Face it, folks: Any strategy that puts serious eggs in the Southern basket is a failing strategy right out of the gate. Edwards and Clark would both make fine additions to the ticket, but not because they will help to bring in the South. The South is gone.

[King of New Orleans]

15. I respectfully disagree

While it's true that by the time Kerry is racking up Southern state victory he'll probably already have enough electoral votes to win, that's no reason to not run an agressive 50 state campaign (OK, 45 state campaign).

There is good reason to believe either ticket could be competitive in Virginia, Florida, Arkansas, Louisiana, maybe Tennessee and possibly NC if Edwards was on the ticket.

Also, Kerry will want the Dems to win at least a few of the Southern Senate seats if he wants a fighting chance to get anything progressive thru the Senate.

I'd personally lean towards Clark at this time. I hear some of the ladies also get vapors when he looks into their eyes.

[juajen]

18. You are absolutely right

I wouldn't call it the vapors, tremors is more like it. Go Wes!

[SWPAdem]

43. You ain't just whistling Dixie

"I'd personally lean towards Clark at this time. I hear some of the ladies also get vapors when he looks into their eyes."

Wes definitely gives this chick a jumpstart.

[Adelante]

17. He left Chicago

when he was four years old. But with so long a time in the military, I would say his base is not terribly Arkansas, either.

[DeepModem Mom]

66. My friends in Little Rock consider Clark an Arkansan --

he grew up there (so did I), and graduated from Hall High. And when he left the military, he moved back to Little Rock. But you're right -- he hasn't built a political base in Arkansas, although I believe the state's Democratic bigwigs, including Pryor and Bumpers, strongly supported his Presidential candidacy.

[VelmaD]

19. This is one of those times...

when I don't want to agree with you and hate that I have to. I love the South. My family has been in the South for a long long time. The South has a fine tradition of producing good liberal politicans (Henry B. Gonzalez and Barbara Jordan and Jim Hightower and and and...). But right now...it just feels like a lost cause some days. If we could figure out how to fix that we could make a bloody fortune as consultants. :-)

[AP]

27. 93% of NC'ians approve of Edward's run.

http://www.newsobserver.com/edwards/polls/story/3207866p-2878099c.html

He's actually very popular in NC and could win the state, which is worth 15 EVs.

[tameszu]

35. Clark's, IIRC, hasn't lived in Chicago since he was 4

I do agree that he isn't as "south'rn" as Edwards. Clark's "base" is kinda everywhere, having moved once a year for 35 years.

But Arkansas still regards him as a favorite son, and I'm confident he could swing it; certainly, he'd have much better odds of doing so than Edwards' 0 likelihood of swinging either NC or SC. Clark also has some draw in bordering states, like OK and TN--probably not enough to swing either, but maybe enough to make Bush waste resources in either.

I think he would probably make a better Sec'y of State, tho.

[AP]

39. ,,,

...

[I Lean Left]

42. Couldn't agree more.

You know, nobody holds the Republicans to a 50 state strategy. When was the last time they were competitive in the northeast? I think Gore carried every state north of Virginia except NH, and he only lost that by 7k votes. I think for the most part the Republicans don't really contest these states, especially when they run a doofus from Texas.

I think the battle for the southern vote costs us. We always start talking in terms of 'which candidate will play well in the south'. I don't recall anyone asking which candidate would play well in the northeast. Or the west coast. Or the southwest. And I think we're probably talking about as many electoral votes.

Build a different winning stategy. We lost the south when we decided to stand up for civil rights, and we're probably another generation away from being able to compete there again. As long as people are willing to vote in direct opposition to their interest...

[JasonBerry]

44. WHAT are you doing????

"William Rivers Pitt, the press secretary for Dennis Kucinich wrote on a popular Democratic forum that Senator John Edwards, 'Decided not to run for his Senate seat again because he knew he was going to get beat - and the whole 'He has a Southern accent' thing works if you are from the North and think Southerners are suckers who fall for a similar-sounding accent.' The comment on the forum, which William Pitt is a member and frequent poster, has created a storm of protest. Congressman Kucinich has declined comment."

Don't worry, Will, the above is fantasy. However, you might think twice before hitting "post". What would Dennis say? :)

[AP]

47. Advocating for a spot on the ticket for a congressman from OH?

[HuskerDem]

57. Hey! Another shit shack!

"his base is Chicago"

Justify please? I was born in Puerto Rico, but was raised in Nebraska.

Am I "based" in Puerto Rico?

[bornskeptic]

61. I don't think the South is gone.

The ABC-Washington Post poll last week has Kerry leading Bush 49-46 in the South. Of course that's not conclusive, but it indicates to me that with Kerry the South will definitely be in play. Depending on what happens in the next few months, either Clark or Edwards might add enough strength to pick up a couple of extra states. Personally, I lean towards Clark, but I trust Kerry's judgment more than I do my own, so I'm willing to just wait and see. They're both good men.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac3/ContentServer?pagename=polls&nextstep=displayQuestion&interactive=n&pollid=2004041&pripollid=&varname=q4_lean&privarname=&questCategoryType=n&questCategory=The+President&keyword=&pollDateRange=3&ctabtype=A&startingRow=1&pollType=National&searchPollId=0&newsearch=

[LandOLincoln]

71. His base is CHICAGO???

Clark left Chicago as a small child, for god's sake, and spent the next 14-15 years growing up in Arkansas.

What the heck are you smokin?

[Frances]

4. I honestly don't know who Kerry should pick as his VP

I think the candidates have all earned the right to be appointed to something.

But I remember how McGovern had to backtrack on his first choice for VP and how much it hurt him.

I hope that Kerry gives a great deal of thought to the selection.

[DjTj]

6. Edwards finished ahead of Clark...

...in South Carolina, Virginia, and Tennessee - the only Confederate states to have voted thus far.

[FrenchieCat]

21. Actually Clark plays better.....

in all of America...remember that CLark didn't have BIG MEDIA blowing at his backside everytime he took a step...on the other hand Edwards became the "Media wonder Boy"....

So for Clark to take second in New Mexico, North Dakota, and Arizona considering what he had to do to earn those votes! The Southwest is another strategy that needs studying.....and Clark has the Native American vote locked up, i.e., why he won Oklahoma and had those seconds in the other states I named....leads me to believe that if Clark had some media, he would have made mincemeat out of Edwards in both Virginia and Tennessee......

Plus Clark won Oklahoma without, again, Big Media momemtum.

Edwards is a pretty guy....but that won't be enough in a debate with Cheney.

Actually, Clark is just as pretty and brings more than just that to the table.

Kerry/Clark brings the type of Gravitas that would make Bush calling himself the "wartime" President a joke!

Clark was born in Chicago....grew up in Arkansas and lived many places in US and Internationaly.....his appeal is global.

[spooky3]

51. "pretty" is not what won Edwards those 70 big cases against

better resourced big corporate attorneys, and it's not what will enable him to devastate any Repub. in a debate.

[HuskerDem]

52. Being a great trial lawyer is not a great selling point with

the average voter either.

[King of New Orleans]

7. Why I do declare

will all the ladies have the vapors when he walks by?

[Crunchy Frog]

This lady certainly will!

:evilgrin:

[NV1962]

9. Clark, hands down

Edwards' accent, his "youth" (all of 51 springs) and his looks aren't determining votes - credibility on issues that voters care about does, however. Plus, Clark has executive leadership experience in ways and on levels that Edwards can't begin to count.

[anti-NAFTA]

10. Edwards because

the South has been hurt by the outsourcing. Thinking the South is going to vote for a particular candidate just because he has an accent is both cynical and wrong. Issues are what's important.

[Dying Eagle]

14. I know....

Looks and accent are not everything, I am not bashing the south. I just know that looks and likability play a role in politics whether we like it or not

[HuskerDem]

12. Clark

Women find Clark attractive too, plus it gives us double hero gravitas. There's tons of other benifits too like Clark's strong grass roots support. Edwards lacks experience as a less than a one term senator and he would not likely deliver his own state.

[hope42mro]

20. Yeah, my mom thinks Clark is "very handsome". Look out Gert!

[hope42mro]

16. Clark. Because they like the military?? Honestly, no real reason

Can't say I know much about the South, other than Yankee stereotypes. So my vote is really an "abtain".

P.S. Southern People: :eyes:What's a Dixicrat? I'm so confused...

[HuskerDem]

56. Dixiecrat is usually a very conservative Democrat

most of them don't vote with us anymore. Nobody likes to talk about it much but the parties just switched magnetic poles between the mid fifties and the mid seventies.

White southerners became Democrats because the party championed their cause in the thirties and forties. Believe it or not most of them then still associated republicans with Abraham Lincoln, whom they had learned from their grandmothers, was the most awful president ever.

When the Democratic party fought for civil rights some of the white southern vote started falling off.

The south has made insufficient but undeniable progress in the race criteria, but it remains Conservative.

Change is a real bastard, especially in the south.

[On the Road]

22. Edwards Nationally, Clark Regionally

I'm a northerner who lived in the South for a long time, so it's filtered through that lens.

On basic appeal, Clark has the military thing going. Any Southerner would be proud to vast a vote for Clark.

Edwards causes mixed feelings. The trial-lawyer punitive-damage image is very troubling in the South. Although he grew up poor, he comes across as wealthier and more patrician. And although Edwards is a natural orator, it's an inspirational speaker style which to me is not the style of the type of Southern swing voter.

On issues, Clark has become very strident against the war. Don't know how this will play. Personally, Edwards's vocal support for the war is my biggest problem with him, but it may get him more votes in the South.

Edwards's populist rich-poor theme, while it may benefit a lot of swing voters, is also not the style of rhetoric that most Southerners are comfortable with.

JMO.

[MoonRiver]

23. Clark is a much better choice. He and Kerry will demolish AWOL

and chickenhawk Cheney. It won't even be close, imo.

[Mobius]

24. Not sure who Clack is, but I think Clark is the PERFECT choice!

Edwards didn't know who Rabin was. He looked desperate and sad in the WI debate. Put Edwards next to Clark. Easy choice for me. CLARK. Also this is actually BETTER than Clark being POTUS right off. He would be out of the WH in 8 years. As VP he gets to be there for 16 years.
AWESOME NAZI/BUSH graphic! BTW :hi:

[King of New Orleans]

38. I believe Clack

Is a cousin of Kang and Kodos.

[Bucky]

41. Clack is the brother of Click. They're the Tappit brothers on NPR

Don't you have a car?

[mmonk]

76. and neither have a southern accent

[Renew Deal]

25. ## Support Democratic Underground! ##

RUN C:\GROVELBOT.EXE This week is our first quarter 2004 fund drive.Please take a moment to donate to DU. Thank youfor your support. - An automated message from the DU GrovelBot

:evilgrin:

[Mattforclark]

29. Lol

I thought that was the real grovelbot until I saw the "Wes Clark Democrat." At that point I thought, "WOW, GROVELBOT IS A WES CLARK DEMOCRAT!!!" I was elated. Then I saw that it was not Grovelbot.

:(

I am going to go away and sit in the corner and cry now.

Goodbye.

:cry:

[Renew Deal]

37. lol

Just causing trouble. ;)

[tameszu]

59. Hee!

That would rock if we converted the Grovelbot.

Then the tinfoil crowd would go nuts:

"DEVELOPING: Clark makes secret pact with Clintons to daemonically possess Grovelbot with an elixer made from ground kittens and interns--plan to use money to fund Hillary's '08 White House run."

[Mobius]

62. but...but...where does batboy fit into that scenario?

:cry:

[Mattforclark]

26. Clark.

I'm not biased, either... ;)

[Phelan]

28. Kerry wont win the south...basta

I don't think a Kerry/Lee ticket (j/k) would be very strong in Alabama either though...

[Mattforclark]

31. Yeah, but

A Lee/Kerry ticket might be able to pick of Virginia. And from Virginia, it is but a small hop across the Potomac to invade Washington DC.

[GreenArrow]

30. wrong question

With the exception of one, maybe two states, we aren't going to win the South.

Right question: who will be better to win the North, East, Midwest and West?

Answer: Clark

[hope42mro]

32. Clack. Clack. Definitely, Definitely Clack. Yes, Clack will win.

[Mattforclark]

33. We want Wes! We want Wes!

[bobthedrummer]

50. Yes, I wonder about this Clack person too.

Clack?
Kerry/Clack 2004?

[Kinkistyle]

53. Yes! Clack over Edrawds, Shrapton or Dane!

[janx]

34. Clack, definitely. He is a General. n/t

[tameszu]

58. Go Clack!

(Just having fun)

[MrSlayer]

45. Wesley K. Clark.

He's extremely smart, charismatic and experienced.

[genius]

46. Edwards. He's more popular in the South.

Don't shoot me. I just watching the results.

[Mobius]

63. Kerry doesnt need a carbon copy of himself

Thats how I view Edwards. Clark brings more balance and unquestionable foreign affairs experience to the ticket. IMHO

[Kosmos Mariner]

48. Clark

And not just in the South, or the Red States... I've posted this before, moderate Repugs, especially men, are looking for a way to vote Bush out without looking "soft." The same suburban Repug dads who find the "image" of the stereotypical bleeding heart, loose morals, soft on national security liberal repulsive, want desperately to vote for a honorable person with strong foreign policy/defense skills, fiscally responsible, that is a tad left socially. If we present Kerry/Clark, and there are no major scandals, we will win over 300 electoral votes. The timing is right. Let's take back those Wes Clark Repubs!!


:dem:

[GRClarkesq]

49. Neither

Edwards cant get it done in his own state and Clark has no proven electability in the South.

[FrenchieCat]

54. Coming in 3rd in

Tennesse and Virginia with no Media Momentum was stupendous.......Clark has proven his worth.........

Just cause many bought in that Edwards got votes in those state solely because??????? Because the media told the South to vote for Edwards......

Internal polling shows that Edwards can't even win North Carolina....

Internal polling shows that Clark can win Arkansas...and Louisiana....

But of course, those judging by Edwards with Big MO...and Clark with None.......Ok, whatever!

[Auntie Bush]

55. Clark Remember...Bush is a self declared "War President"

[Gore1FL]

60. Someo outside the CW "box"

Someone fromt he Congressional Black Caucus.

THAT is how the dems take back the South.

[yellowdawgdem]

64. Clack /nt

[Tweed]

65. Clark: Heroes vs. Chickenhawks n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

68. Clack, definitely. n/t

[Adelante]

69. Clack's my man

;)

[littlejoe]

70. Who's Clack?

[citizen snips]

72. Edwards.

He has done better in the south than Clark.

[Bad Thoughts]

73. Disaggregate "The South"

It is a little foolish to thik that either one can completely capture "the South." In fact, looking at the electoral strengths of both Clark and Edwards, I think the argument needs to be made as to how they can help in each section of the South--Eastern versus west of the Mississippi. Furthermore, they must be judged as to what they can add to Kerry's (or another nominee's) force within Western states that Rethuglicans have won. Approaching this as an issue of "the South" is too simplistic.

[VOX]

74. Edwards. Saw him in L.A. last week, he's got the "magic"...

He gave his "two Americas" stump speech, and riffed a bit off-the-cuff. He has that difficult-to-define quality that electrifies and ignites passion in a crowd -- he can connect with people in a manner that out-Clintons Clinton. In a very personal way, he is able to put a sharp focus on poverty, job loss, minority issues, personal freedom issues, etc.

Edwards can bring it, and a guy like this should not be turned out to pasture -- he makes a formidable opponent, and would round out a ticket very nicely.

As a working V.P. a la Al Gore, Edwards would be absolutely top-shelf.

[onefreespiritedchick]

75. Edwards

John Edwards comes across as one for the people, one who understands your plight, which resonates perfectly.