My case for Evan Bayh - for Vice President

[jeter]

Okay. John Kerry will almost certainly be the Democratic nominee.

He didn't have an affair with an intern. The Republicans are almost certainly behind this attempted smear.

Now back to the 2004 election.

I think Kerry should choose Evan Bayh as his running mate.

Something to consider. Evan Bayh is very popular in Indiana. A state that went for Bush in 2000. His selection will almost certainly give us Indiana and its 11 electoral votes.

Both Clark and Edwards are maybes when it comes to delivering their home state.

Bayh also helps us in states near Indiana:

- Ohio
- Missouri

states Bush won.

- Wisconsin
- Iowa

states we barely won.

He is also young and dynamic. Has a fresh approach to things. Was once a governor - so he has executive experience.

He also contrasts nicely with Kerry's more liberal tendencies. The two would balance each other very nicely.

I think as a ticket, these two would be unstoppable.

It would lock up the northeast/midwest for us. This means we can go after Republican states and not worry too much about defending states that Gore won in 2000.

Some people will not want Bayh because they will say he is too conservative. But we have to look at the bigger picture. Beating Bush.

I don't think we have the luxary this year of going for politically pure candidates. Kerry will be the most liberal candidate we have put up since LBJ. That should be enough. Our VP can be a little conservative, it doesn't bother me too much.

[Tweed]

1. Brought up earlier today, dismissed because will put Blue States in play

We have to have Cali and we may not get it as it is. We don't need to encourage the Green party.

[jeter]

2. NOT!!!

We're going to win California just fine.

With Bayh in the mix, only New Mexico would have to be protected (among the states that Gore won).

I don't see any down side with Bayh on the ticket.

He's a disciplined campaigner. So he won't make stupid mistakes.

I just don't see any states that we carried in 2000 going for Bush because of Bayh.

[roguevalley]

40. I don't want some suit brought out because of some strategy somewhere

that he can bring X states in. Choose from the boys we
have now that have done the work. The south must be
addressed and not choosing a southerner is a slap at a
region that is very touchy about yankee insults. Clark
would be the man I would choose to make it all work.

Not some boy faced guy, no matter how good or decent. I
am tired of baby faced suits.

[Nlighten1]

3. Evan Bayh

Is NOT very popular in Indiana anymore. At least among my friends. However, he might be a good middle of the road candidate to the wingnuts.

[salin]

6. while most hoosier dems would vote bayh over any repub...

most respect our republican senator more... I also don't see Bayh being more popular in this state than Bush. I don't believe there is any indication that this state would reverse its longstanding pattern of voting GOP for pres (since 1968) for Bayh.

[LiberalFighter]

9. Agreed... not THAT popular especially among Democrats

He will get most of the Democrats but his support is not as strong.

I will vote for him only because there isn't anyone else that would win against another Republican for that seat. I advocated with our group to collect petition signatures in our Congressional District for him that would place his name on the ballot. BUT to hold them back so that his people would beg for them. In addition, our group would not work to get out the vote in getting him elected in our Congressional District. He would still get elected but it would give us ammo to make the threat later on to do it state-wide the next time.

BUT we really can't afford to do that with an election for Governor this year.

[salin]

13. Imo, that would be the only benefit

of bayh as vp - that it might help Kernan's election. But - there is NO democrat in the wing to take that senate seat. In a few years, maybe Mayor Peterson of Indianapolis - but not yet. I heard commentary today that it is legal for Bayh to run for reelection AND for VP simultaneously - but if a bush push puts Mitch on top for gov - then a repub (with bush blessings) gets picked... I don't even want to think about who that might be... almost makes Bayh desirable as a democratic senator in comparison.

[diamondsoul]

23. Peterson is no better.

*sigh* Too much. Yeah, I'm one of those people who respect Lugar more because half the time I can actually SPEAK to him! Not only that but he listens, maybe doesn't agree, but he LISTENS. BAYH, the little creep sends his lackeys instead of giving a flying fig himself.

[salin]

4. Bayh can't deliver Indiana

my fellow hoosiers like Bayh - and would vote for him over republicans for statewide offices (and might even at the top of a ticket)... but they LOVE bush - and the state - while electing many dems statewide (senators and governors) has not voted for a Dem Pres since 1964.

He wouldn't bring in any other state (we aren't straight rustbelt or cornbelt and never influence our neighbors - Mich, Ohio, Illinois nor Kentucky).

He brings no value added, but would alienate some on the left - particularly because of his lurch to the right (further than he had been for 8 yrs as gov and 2 yrs as sen) after Bush was elected... and his participation in the Rose Garden speech that was viewed as worse than voting for IWR - as he helped bush end ALL ongoing bipartisan negotiations for amendments to said resolution. Thus he brings nothing and may lose some.

There are many other possible candidates who can actually bring/deliver something to the equation. This hoosier votes NO on this proposition.

[DaisyUCSB]

5. We're a heckofa lot less likely to get Indianas 11 votes than Floridas 27

Bob Graham should be the vp, and if we win he could retire in 08 to make place for a new vp

[salin]

7. this hoosier - agrees... Graham brings much more to the ticket

than does Bayh.

[JasonBerry]

18. Graham

Graham had his time under the lights and proved to be a horrible national candidate. He came across as a not very articulate man who is past his prime and not ready for prime time. IMO.

[ShaneGR]

8. NO one knows who Evan Bahy is in Ohio, it wouldn't make sense

I honestly believe Clark is better served to be using his talents as Secretary of State or Secretary of Defense. It's what he knows and his policies WITHIN the State Department or Defense Department will do far more good than what he would be doing as VP in a Kerry Administration. Especially as Secretary of Defense, Clark would have a CONTROL of their budgets and needs. He could really start to streamline that force and have REAL power to start pulling them out.

[NewJerseyDem]

10. He doesn't guarantee victory in Indiana

Bush won the state by 15.64 percentage points in 2000 and Bayh isn't going to provide enough votes to convince almost 8% of the voters to switch their vote because of the Vice presidential nominee. He is very popular in the state but I doubt that he is popular enough. He may put the state in play but still it is unlikely we could carry the state.

Still, I have no problem with his moderate views and he would be a strong candidate that would just help out overall across the nation. But, the fact that he is running for reelection just complicates things even though he can run for both offices. It could turn the people of Indiana against him which wouldn't help anyone.

[valphoosier]

28. Agreed

Unless Bayh topped the ticket, I don't see a Dem winning Indiana. Indiana -- despite demographics -- is a very republican state and Bayh as VP (despite his enormous popularity here) wouldn't bring the state to our column (especially with Kerry on top).

Bayh may well help with some other states, but I don't see any states he could guarantee. Someone like Graham (Florida) or Richardson (NM and Arizona, plus sealing up California to allow us to focus resources elsewhere) could do that.

[legin]

11. Pick that DLC bastard as VP

and I'm voting bush*.

[KoKo]

12. You said it. He picks Bayh.....and that's like picking Zell Miller.

nuff said.

[liberalpragmatist]

14. Bayh gets a bum rap on this site, but NO

Look, I respect Evan Bayh; he was a great Indiana governor (I've lived in Indiana) and he's a decent senator. He's a centrist who works well with others and is quite pragmatic. He's also young and has time; I'm sure he'll be on a national ticket someday.

That being said, this is NOT his year. There are many reasons why: for one thing, ideologically, he's not a great fit for Kerry and the old strategy of picking a running mate who balances the ticket ideologically is going out of style; the favored model is someone who brings geographic balance but ideological similarity b/c VP's have grown powerful and often are central players in drafting policy.

Bayh may put Indiana and Ohio into play, but that's no sure thing. Plus, he's HATED by the grassroots and the left-wing of the party since he's been one of the most compromising senators in the Senate. His overall record is good, but on issues like the war and tax cuts, he's been very accomodating, something that would send the wrong message this yr and would alienate grassroots support.

Plus, his campaign style doesn't complement Kerry's. Bayh isn't very charismatic, although he is pretty good looking, and he won't energize anybody.

Clark and Edwards would be far better b/c, while there's no guarantee that Edwards could carry NC, his political skills and down-home charm could work well in Arkansas, Florida, Missouri, and Ohio. Clark would definately help in Arkansas and Tennessee and would also help in Missouri, Fla., and Ohio. Plus, neither alienates the grassroots of the party, which is crucial. We must hold the base while also reaching out to the center. Bayh would only do the latter; Clark or Edwards could do the latter and the former.

Some other good possibilities would be Bill Richardson, Mark Warner (still, kinda centrist however), and Bob Graham (pretty old though and SOOOO boring).

[w4rma]

29. I am in full and total agreement, liberalpragmatist. (n/t)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. No. Think of red states that can be "tipped"

Indiana isn't even close. Arizona, Arkansas, and New Hampshire are more like it. Nevada too. (Which is why Harry Reid is a favorite choice of mine)
Think close, NOT impossible fantasy.

[Auntie Bush]

16. He's not liberal enough for me.

Seems to me he is too much like Lieberman.

[lams712]

17. NO WAY!!!!!

I don't think we should put a Republican on the #2 slot of a DEMOCRATIC ticket. If it were his father (a real liberal who courageously kept to his convictions and won 3 elections in a generally conservative state), that would be one thing, but Evan Bayh is a Clintonesque DLC STOOGE, but worse.

By the way, NO DEMOCRAT has carried INDIANA in like FOREVER!!!
Maybe we should try to pick up a state we didn't get in 2000 but have in the more recent past like Ohio, Missouri, West Virginia, Florida, Tennessee, or Arkansas.

[JasonBerry]

20. Bayh

Times have changed. The old style liberalism of Birch Bayh would not - and DOES not - play on the national stage in America. The New Democratic views of leaders like Evan Bayh are the future of our party -- like it, or not. I don't really think I do like it particularly, but I want to win. Bayh on the ticket is not a real bad idea.

[salin]

21. except strategically... he brings nothing to the table

he helps win no states. Where is there any value?

[Armstead]

26. It's only the future if you let it be

That centrist stuff is garbage. It's conservativsm, pure and simple.

There are different ways to update liberalism that really address the problems of the modern world without selling out to the corporations.

[salin]

33. Folks either forget, or do not realize that Bayh along with Miller

were the two democrats in the Senate that almost single handedly broke/ended the Sarbanes efforts to deal with corporate/accounting reform in the wake of the massive corporate implosions of 2002. On this, Lieberman was on the correct side... and Bayh and Zell Miller were to the right.

[lams712]

39. Let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right....

...and Bayh is "the future of the party" (IT'S A LOAD OF B.S., but let's say you're right). Bayh WOULD NOT deliver Indiana nor would he influence any neighboring states. We'd be better off with someone who could deliver Missouri, Ohio, etc.,etc.

[DianeG5385]

19. Gore should have picked him in 2000

Maybe we would have been spared the 911 grief!

[sleipnir]

22. If Kerry picks Bayh, I'm voting third party

That will be the final straw. He might as well have Miller or Lieberman on his ticket. I lived for four years in Indiana, and I was not proud of Bayh's record then, and my opinion of him hasn't changed. He and Kerry both lack charisma and I fear they fare as well as Gore/Lieberman.

No offense, Jeter, but you're pick of Bayh is really far off. While I understand your reasoning and respect your views, I really don't think anyone outside of DU and the like see him as a viable candidate. He has little to no name recognition or appeal.

I'm not a Kerry fan by any stretch of the imagination, but his VP selection will be critical for me. It will either bring me closer to his camp (and I might even give him some cash!) or push me over the edge to Third Party/Write-In.

[lams712]

38. I would have to agree with you on that....

...I would SERIOUSLY consider voting for a third party if Kerry (OR WHOEVER THE NOMINEE IS) chooses Bayh (OR ANY DLC STOOGE).

[Kosmos Mariner]

24. Bayh!?!?

Isn't that "Quayle" translated into Democrat? :puke: Dull, stiff, and right of center, no thanks. :crazy:

[genius]

25. HIs voting record is lousy. I'd like Bayh out of the federal government

How about someone who shares the values of most Democrats for VP.

[genius]

27. I'd question the selection skills of anyone picking Bayh.

It's the same kind of person who would pick Zell Miller for Secretary of State.

[Sean Reynolds]

30. hahahahahaha

NEVER would I support that centrist bastard. I'm already sick to death Kerry is going to win the nomination, a Kerry/Bayhe ticket would TOTALLY make me puke.

Two DLCers runnin side by side, aww - lets create the New Republicrat Party! See who can out do the Republicans more, anti-abortion Bayhe or Pro-War Kerry?

[tameszu]

31. I don't think Bayh would swing Indiana

Maybe put it in play, but I really doubt that Bayh on the bottom of Kerry's ticket could swing it.

[La_Serpiente]

32. HELL NO!!!

If Bayh was on the ticket, even I would have deep reservations about voting for Kerry.

He needs a strong labor figure on the ticket.

[loyalsister]

34. NOOOOOO

He's damn near anti-choice!!

[Taeger]

35. Best case ...

One of the BIGGEST considerations in picking a Veep is choosing someone who won't upstage the top of the ticket.

Kerry has the stature of Abraham Lincoln's skeleton and the personality of a Disney animatronic. Kerry does give a good speech in his rather gaurded reserved, monotonous way.

Evan Bayh makes a good choice because he is even MORE robotic than Al Gore. He won't upstage Kerry and he would likely cinch up Indiana. Gore is a moderate Democrat (or liberal Republican). It balances out Kerry's ULTRA LIBERAL persona.

My gut is that Edwards would do the ticket more good. But it wouldn't do Kerry good since Edwards is simply a better speaker and is on the RIGHT side of the NAFTA issue. If they were elected together, I could see Edwards challenging Kerry for the next nomination.

[AnnitaR]

36. If he picks Bayh

I'll have to be really, really drunk on election day when I have to vote on that ticket.

I'll do it, anything is better than Chimpy.

However, I will have to be almost out of it to not scream at the horror of it all!

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

[IrateCitizen]

37. Just a slightly slower slide toward authoritarianism...

Evan Bayh is a fine running mate for the Democratic Party if your only concern is getting Bush out of office, and you don't give a damn about what happens AFTER that. But if you're actually concerned with stopping the slide toward fascism and corporate rule, then he's an absolutely horrible candidate.

People have given plenty of concrete examples of his negatives on this thread. And I am consistently surprised to hear people describe people like Bayh as having "fresh new ideas". Adopting modern conservatism without a reactionary face is hardly new nor fresh. Rather, it the same stale opportunism that has alienated a large segment of the American public from believing that politics has the capacity to improve their lives and society.

[amandabeech]

41. Bayh is more valuable in the Senate than as VP

There is no guarantee that there will be a Dem governor in Indiana to appoint a Dem to Bayh's seat. We Dems need as many senate seats as possible, whether they held by centrists or lefties. The new Dem President will have enough difficulties dealing with Hastert & Delay in the House. He will need all the help he can get in the Senate.

If Bayh were really the only VP candidate who could put a Dem in the White House, I'd say, "Go for it!" However, judging from the responses to this thread, others may do just as well to pull in wavering states, like Ohio. I grew up in neighboring Michigan and have friends and family there. Bayh wouldn't do anything for them, for what it's worth.


Amanda

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

42. DLC Kerry + Even more DLC Bayh? Makes my vote Green for sure.

Your comparison of Kerry to LBJ is particularly apt. Both thought war was a great idea to prove their "strong on defense" credentials.

Bayh also collaborated with Bush to invade Iraq.

[Khephra]

43. I have to say that there's very few things that would

make this Hoosier think of voting third-party...and this is one of them.

I'm starting to think that people only care about beating Bush, not realizing that they're setting up another fuckwad in his place.

Bayh is one of the jerks who have yet to say anything negative about Bush...and he's as much of a hawk as Lieberman. Hell, Lieberman is more liberal than Bayh.

[FeelinGarfunkelly]

44. Bayh, Bayh Mo..Bayh Bayh happiness...

Hello, loserness, we'll lose fo'sho' in 04..

Bayh is as unrecognizable in Missouri as say..Lyndon LaRouche. No one knows who he is, and he won't deliver MO. I don't know about Ohio, but I think it's a lot like Missouri-lost a lot of manufacturing jobs, something you kinda have to win to win the big election. I don't think Bayh can do that.

And another thing--I know some of us might think about who the VP will be, but do average voters care? When was the last time you heard someone say, "I'm not the biggest fan of <pres. candidate>, but I love <VP candidate>"? Just a thought, I could be wrong.