Why So Much Support For Hillary?

[ludwigb]

It seems like there are plenty of people on here who see HRC as their first choice.

Isn't this the same candidate that right wing pundits have been pushing down our throats for the last 8 years? Why do we follow like lemmings and support precisely the candidate they want us to support?

Look, I think Hillary would make a fine president. Not a great president, but probably as good as Bill Clinton, and that's fantastic compared to the one we have.

But ultimately the wingers want Hillary FOR A REASON. They know she pushes people's buttons. They know a Hillary canidacy will shift the debate from the issues to petty personal squabbles.

I simply don't understand--why favor Hillary over Obama? Is it because she's a woman? What's the motivation?

[Colobo]

1. I don't think your thread helps our candidate, Obama, in any way.

I mean, why question the motivations of other people to support someone else?

[ludwigb]

6. Fair enough I guess

But I'm not saying that HRC supporters are GOPers or are at all sympathetic to their agenda. I'm just wondering whether it gives them pause to know this is the candidate the GOP wants.

[Elidor]

10. Question everyone's motivations

"Why question the motivations of other people to support someone else?" I can't believe anyone could say that with a straight face.

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away...

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

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[wyldwolf]

8. translation: People who have an opposing viewpoint might join the discussion.

[Saturday]

3. Because she has a husband that can

create good will in the world (all that bush lost) towards the USA 5 minutes after she takes office?

[knight_of_the_star]

37. I wouldn't consider that a good reason to elect someone

Cause to me that reeks of nepotism if nothing else, picking someone because of who they are married too strikes me as being ok with creating political dynasties and valuing connections over qualifications.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

4. Because HIllary and Obama are the two candidates being pushed by the MSM

and more people have heard of Hillary.

It's as simple as that.

I've talked to people who are Democrats but not political junkies, and they aren't even aware that anyone else is running.

[Warpy]

5. Some Democrats are conservative and corporatist

and those are supporters. Others value name recognition and star power above all else. Still others are delusional enough to think it will be a second Bill Clinton presidency, even though he will likely be absent more than he is in residence.

If she is the candidate in the general election, I'll vote for her. I won't be happy about it.

[corkhead]

11. I'm afraid she would make what should be a 50 state landslide into a close enough election to steal.

[Hawkowl]

60. Bingo!

That is exactly what I think as well. Rove and Gonzo have been working overtime at caging and purging voter lists.

[Lorien]

7. No, it's not because she's a woman

the MSM has been pushing her on us from day one, and that's because she's a huge supporter of corporate America. Fortune magazine had a cover story on her declaring "Business LOVES Hillary"! One way or another big business will get one of their own into office. As for DU's HRC cheerleaders; maybe they just watch a lot of television? :shrug:

[AndyA]

9. I had someone tell me earlier this week that Hillary was

"a *** damn carpetbagger, who had no interest at all in New York until she decided she wanted to be a Senator from New York. Hillary is all corporate, all the time, and that's why she's the media's Democratic darling. If HRC gets elected, it's more of the same we've had from Bushco, only with a more liberal spin."

:shrug:

I don't know that I necessarily agree 100% with that, but Hillary does get a lot of donations from lobbyists and PACs, and that just doesn't seem good to me. They're going to want something in return for that money, and that goes for Barack as well.

Personally, I've had enough of corporate-run America.

[SaveElmer]

12. With the exception (so far) of Katzenkavalier...

Who is proof positive that it is possible to strenuously support a candidate without imputing dark motivations on those that disagree...this thread is a case study in why so called "progressives" never achieve majority status...

The intolerance for the views of others, the instinct to impugn the intelligence and motivation of those that disagree with them, and the complete unwillingness to acknowledge that it is possible to have an honest disagreement, are the attributes that truly turn people off, and induce them to tune "progressives" out...

[ludwigb]

13. Let Me Ask You a Substantive Question Then....

Should the right-wing media's near decade-long championing of a HRC candidacy effect how we interpret her candidacy?

Moreover I don't think there's anything intolerant in my post. I am genuinely confused. I consider DU a left-wing website, yet there is an enormous amount of support for the candidate favored by the DLC and looked well upon by MIC-funded conservative media (that is, until the general election starts...)

[SaveElmer]

14. I reject the premise of your question...

No candidate in the field has been as harshly treated by the media than Hillary Clinton...with the MSM airing right wing charges that she is an adulterer, purjorer, drug dealer, embezzler, and murderer...not to mention shrill and even a lesbian (Seinfeld caveat)...

So while Hillary Clinton is the subject of much media attention, much, if not most of it is over the top right wing charged, swift boat type stuff...

The fact that she has dealt so well with it, and become more popular in the process is ONE reason why I support her...

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. You maybe need to watch a little less Faux News.

Because the corporate media does NOT do that with Hillary. Faux might - I wouldn't know because i never go there, but I've NEVER seen any of the "MSM" say any of those things.

But they sure as shit will if she gets the nomination.

[ludwigb]

28. Do You Really Think the Mass of Americans Are Impervious to the Propaganda?

It is precisely because HRC is "framed" that the MSM has taken so much time to trumpet her candidacy. Think about it. How many times in the last 8 years have the MSM Sunday morning talking heads NOT talked about a potential HRC candidacy?

[SaveElmer]

36. Ridiculous...

They talk about her because she is the frontrunner...and most cannot in any way be considered flattering...she has been the subject of more negative press than the other candidates combined...while Obama is fawned over by comparison...

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. And if you say that often enough and loud enough that will make

it true.

[cobalt1999]

26. The media is irrelevant

Why do you give them so much weight in your decision making? Think for yourself and choose your own candidate. Going automatically with or against MSM demonstrates a lack of thinking or gives them control of your actions.

[ludwigb]

50. I oppose HRC for substantive reasons (Iraq and Iran, her corporate cronyism, etc)

However, I do think that MSM support/attention and her status in the polls are intrinsically related.

If we don't integrate the MSM into an analysis of what's right and wrong with American politics then we're going to get it wrong. Prejudices do not appear out of the void--they are cultivated over years by media mimes that are interest-driven.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. Why do you put "progressives" in "quotations"?

Just askin'.

[wyldwolf]

20. for the same reason I do.

[SaveElmer]

21. To distinguish them...

From the true progressive movement, characterized by forward thinking and tolerance...

Many who call themselves progressives today bear little resemblance to progressives that have come before...

[knight_of_the_star]

39. So people are intolerant if they don't like your candidate?

Cause that seems to be how you are applying that in this thread.

[SaveElmer]

54. No...read what I said...

People are intolerant when they will recognize it is possible to have an honest disagreement, without imputing alternative motivations on those not agreeing with them...

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. And who do you think best represents true progressives? nt

[SaveElmer]

46. In recent years...

Paul Wellstone and Bernie Sanders would fit into that category in my opinion...

[question everything]

15. Because many believe that she can win in the general elections?

Because she has demonstrated knowledge and leadership skills that can make many moderates and independents willing to vote for her?

She is not my choice right now but I will vote for whoever the nominee is.

Remember 1968: many anti war people stayed at home, were unhappy with Humphrey, completely ignored his long history of champion of civil rights and we ended up with Nixon.

Remember 2000: many voted for Nader and see where we ended. Yes, the Supreme Court had to intervene, but had it not been for those who are oh so holly that they will never compromise their principles (I wonder whether they have never met a boss, a customer, a supplier whom they cannot stand and despised yet had to compromise).

And to not support here because many Republicans and conservatives can support her? A phrase about cutting one's nose comes to mind.

[MaineDem]

16. Because many people feel she's the best candidate?

Just a thought. Maybe because some favor Senator Clinton's experience over Senator Obama's? Perhaps because people feel, like you said, that she'd be a fine President.

It's a primary. Democrats are going to disagree with each other.

Disclaimer: I have no favorite yet.

[cobalt1999]

17. Because some of us think for ourselves and don't...

blindly go in the same or knee-jerk opposite direction of the MSM.

I don't care what or who anyone else supports or gives press to. I form my own opinions regardless of what you, other dems, any newspaper, or a republican strategist thinks. Your post sounds like a you react to what others think/want...it's probably not the most intellectually sound way to live or pick your candidate.

If you want to know the reasoning, here are a few key points.
1) To be an effective president, you have to be able to work with the congress and government committees to make any progress. She's got everyone beat on that.

2) She is smart and not some christian fundamentalist or "woo-woo" believer. It's about time we had a president who understood a little science and had common sense with a foot in reality.

3) One key area a president sets is Foreign policy, and she knows many of the leaders of other countries and has the credibility to use fix a lot of broken relationships.

Unless Gore jumps in, she's my pick.

[ludwigb]

27. Uh...

The other major candidates are just as good or better on every point you mention. And they don't have Hillary's negatives. Foreign policy? HRC was an Iraq War yes-woman--a primary enabler of the war.

[cobalt1999]

30. You can't be serious.

First term senator Obama, or one term senator Edwards, or "never had a bill passed" Kucinich are better at working within the government than Hillary. I think you need to be a bit more objective before I take you seriously.

[ludwigb]

32. What Has Hillary Accomplished?

Besides supporting the right-wing agenda at crucial moments?

The only evidence you cite that she could get more done in Congress is her "experience". Um, given the record of the current and recent congresses, I'd prefer a change in leadership. DLC-funded and supporter HRC is the candidate furthest away from substantial policy change.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ElizabethDC]

47. I think HRC's campaign employees have better things to do than post on DU

that's my guess.

[beastieboy]

23. Obama gets a shitload of press, yet Hillary supporters are just brain dead lemmings

and only support her because of the media?

[ronnykmarshall]

55. Brain dead lemmings?

WOW! You sure make the case for Obama!

[durrrty libby]

57. You obviously missed the sarcastic tone

[durrrty libby]

24. How about I don't give a shit what the wingers want.. Too bad you do

It is sad how much power and credit you give the crumbling crappy repukes.

I don't give a shit what you think has been shoved down your throat either.

To me Hillary is 10 times better than Obama. Simple enough for you?

[William769]

25. She has so much support, because she is the best candidate the democrats have. NT

[Colobo]

29. According to you. According to me, Obama is the best we have had in decades.

[durrrty libby]

40. "decades"? Correct me if I'm wrong. You have been alive

for barely 2.

[last_texas_dem]

52. Do you have to have been alive when someone ran for President

in order to judge his or her quality as a candidate?

[ronnykmarshall]

56. So what?

I wasn't alive in the 1940's and I think FDR was the greatest president we've had?

[durrrty libby]

58. "So what?" indeed

I'll put aside that the question was really rhetorical and not addressed to you

"I wasn't alive in the 1940's and I think FDR was the greatest president we've had?"

That's lovely dear and Obama has never been a president. :crazy:

[last_texas_dem]

59. I don't care who your question was addressed to

Why imply that someone's age has anything to do with their ability to assess the quality of a Presidential candidate?

[durrrty libby]

61. To say one candidate is the best the party offered in decades???

Absolute silly childish nonsense...Enjoy!

:dunce: :freak: :hangover: :nopity: :thumbsdown:

[Forkboy]

63. Why can't there be a best one? Are they all equal?

Clinton,Kerry,Dean,Kucinich,Gravel? They're all exactly the same?

I don't think Obama is the best one,but to say say that it's childish nonsense that someone feels there is a best is the real silly childish nonsense.

[Clark2008]

31. If that's true, that's a sad statement on the Democratic Party.

[William769]

43. Actually it shows the best of the democratic party. NT

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[Malva Zebrina]

34. beats me too.

I froze my butt off protesting Bush's war in this cold frigid climate.

She voted for this slaughterhouse, tried to make the excuse she was duped, when that failed, she tried various and other spins, then finally told us all to shove it. She does not regret that vote to this day.

So why, why, and how , how, can any progressive who abhors this killing and murder, destruction and decay, who is against this war, possibly accept Clinton as a president? Beats me. Hypocrisy? Blind loyalty to the party? Fear of having another Republican in office, therefore willikng to forsake all moral convinction, in order to have a second rate candidate become president? Second rate because of her war vote.

I won't do it and neither will I fall prey to hypocrites who threaten me as a person who is voting "for a Republican"

Jeez--this voting process is sick.

[MODemocrat]

35. It's simple for me; she's my favorite candidate for personal reasons

That's not to say I don't like the others, because I think they're all great, but doesn't everyone
have their right to choice without excuses? That's exactly why there are so many choices about just
about everything in life; everyone is different. :dem:

[emilyg]

41. Best answer!

[Dawgs]

42. I'm not sure that there are that many here that support here.

I think you're seeing a lot of support from a few. Follow the posters, and you'll see there are only 5-10 hardcore DUers that respond to most of the pro/anti-Hillary threads.

[William769]

45. I see you gave up in the other thread, so now your going to start here?

[Dawgs]

48. No, I actually have a life, and don't spend all day dwelling...

on posts from people that will never agree with me.

[William769]

49. You received your answer that you refused to look up yourself.

You got boxed into a corner and slithered away. And thats a fact.

[last_texas_dem]

51. Well, I can't really answer for them

Of the three candidates polling the highest, she is my last choice. But I would think, as with most candidate's supporters, Clinton's supporters simply like enough about her as a candidate and as a person, that they think she's worth supporting despite things like the right-wing obsession with her. And some may believe, because she is a heavyweight in the party or because she's already had pretty much everything thrown at her that can be thrown, that she will be able to overcome the Repugs' attacks upon her better than the other candidates who have not had as much experience in the political arena.

I have a certain respect for several of Clinton's strongest supporters on DU (I can't stand a handful of them, but the same can be said for just about any candidate (and even non-declared candidate's) supporters) simply because it does take a certain amoung of passion about a cause to stand up to the numerous attacks on what or who you believe in.

However I do think, especially at this point, Clinton also benefits more than any other candidate from a good deal of "soft" support from people who think she's the only, or one of only two, candidate(s) in the race, and who haven't really looked much into her record, stances, etc. I only bring this up to point out that Clinton does have some supporters who may be supporting mostly for not particularly strong reasons like because she's a woman, because she's Bill Clinton's wife, because she's the only Democrat running that they've heard of, etc., but she also does definitely have some passionate supporters who know a lot about her and truly believe in her.

For me, the reason I prefer Edwards and Obama over Clinton: it is a combination of thinking that either of them would be more electable and both would, even if only slightly, attempt to govern more from the left than I believe Clinton would. I base the former judgment on reviewing polls of head-to-head match-ups of the Democratic candidates against the 'pug candidates and personal approval and disapproval ratings, and also my own experience of what non-Democrats that I know seem to think of the Democratic candidates. I base the latter judgment on the way that the candidates present themselves and, to the extent that they have revealed them, their platforms.

[libodem]

53. the couple of people

I know whom really feel strong about Hillary want Bill back They look so sad and nostalgic. They think he can repair our standing with other countries. I think people that want her, want to go with the presumed winner. She has the power and the money. You know the stats. She with the most donations wins. I want Bill back, too. The good old days. I'm waiting for a conversion epiphany. I want to want Hillary but something is holding me back. I like Obama, think hes a beautiful orator and statesman. I just think this is the wrong election to try new things like a Black or a Woman. I want Al Gore to run!

[The Backlash Cometh]

62. First, thing,

if you look at the names that promote Hillary, the same 5-10 names keep coming up continually, post after post. I'm not saying that there are not more than 5-10 people who are in favor of Hillary's nomination, I'm saying that it seems that there is a small group of enthusiastic Hillary supporters which keep holding the same conversation across several posted messages and so it looks like there are more Hillary fans here, than for anyone else. But it's not so. There are just as many fans for Obama or Edwards or Kucinich. They just aren't "working" the message board in unison.

It would make sense to start up a pro-Hillary Forum for these people where they could say whatever they want to about Hillary, without challenge. If I were 25 years younger, I would probably be one of them. As it is, I know there are more important things right now, than voting in a woman president, though, damn it, I would love for Hillary to be that first woman president, but unfortunately, of all the candidates, she's the weakest one to give us the change we need at this pivotal time where the survival of people and their quality of life is being usurped by a few who want to maintain their privileged lives. I think Hillary is capable of having the compassion, empathy and ability to be their leader, but I just don't see it yet.

[Forkboy]

64. A lot of people like her.

Why favor Obama over Hillary? Is it because he's black? What's the motivation.

[antigop]

65. Why so much Hillary support? Good question! Especially since she hasn't announced healthcare plan

I guess Hillary supporters don't need healthcare....

[sniffa]

66. judging by this thread, not so much support

i don't see any support for her in this thread.




others might, but not me.

[sandnsea]

67. Don't know half these people

They just showed up in the last few months and ended up supporting Hillary.

The others are avowed DLCers.

About sums it up.