Crossfire to discuss Kerry/Clark ticket NEXT!

[MoonRiver]

Novak cynically announce it. He's running scared alright! :D

[RafterMan]

1. Be prepared

To hear them saying Clark is a weak nothing who will drag down the ticket.

Over and over and over.

[democratreformed]

3. Yep, that's pretty much what I expect n/t

[Adelante]

2. So, whad he say?

I just can't stand to look at him anymore. :mad:

[MoonRiver]

4. Nothing happened. What a dud.

The Kerry guy just said it hadn't been decided. I thought we'd see a cat fight, alas!

[tobius]

30. The cat fight is right here on this thread. n/t

ARENA, n. In politics, an imaginary rat-pit in which the statesman wrestles with his record.
Ambrose Bierce (1842 - 1914), The Devil's Dictionary

[kayleybeth]

5. I missed it

But I'm sure Novak was sympathetic and objective toward Clark, right? </sarcasm>

[MoonRiver]

6. You must have blinked.

They spent two sentences on it. Don't know why they announced it before the break like it was a big deal! :eyes:

[beanball]

7. Bob Novak

do your country a great service RITIRE.

[beanball]

8. Retire Bob

[Sean Reynolds]

9. Lets turn the US into a military state!

Kerry/Clark 04!

[truebrit71]

10. You mean it isn't EXACTLY that now???

:wtf:

[Sean Reynolds]

11. It's gettin there.

But an all military ticket will finally push us over the brink.

[Dr Fate]

12. Kerry was in the Navy 30 years ago...

and almost all Presidents up until Reagan were in the military...

[Sean Reynolds]

13. But did they run on it?

Every time Kerry opens his mouth he talks about Vietnam.

No matter the issue, he ties it back to him being in Vietnam.

[Dr Fate]

20. Yes. They did run on it.

Ever heard of "The Rough Riders" or "Tippiecanoe & Tyler Too!" JFKs PT whatever....?? Ike Eisenhower? Grant? WASHINGTON?

Yes, presidents have ran on there records as soldiers before.

[Sean Reynolds]

23. A handful of presidents.

Did FDR? Wilson? Carter? Reagan? How about Jefferson or Lincoln?

And last I checked WE never had an all military ticket.

w00t! Kerry/Clark More Wars - Less Bush.

[tameszu]

28. Brief history lesson (never say never)

Carter/Modale = Navy Lt./Army Cpl.
Nixon/Ford = Navy Lt.Cmdr./Navy Lt.Cmdr.
JFK/LBJ = Navy Lt. Cmdr./Navy Lt.
Eisenhower/Nixon = Army 5* Gen./Navy Lt.Cmdr.
Lincoln/Johnson = Militia Capt./Army 1* Gen. (as military Gov.)
Lincoln/Hamlin = Militia Capt./Coast Grd. Pvt. (enlisted while VP!)

I don't know if they two Lincoln tickets count, but to say that Lincoln/Johnson wasn't a bit warlike is to not know your history: Lincoln declared martial law, suspended habeas corpus, and also by the way appointed Johnson military governor of TN before picking him as VP!

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Dr Fate]

33. No, more than a handful, I named several great ones...

Carter was in WWII- dont know about TJ & Abe...

Where are you going w/ this? Almost every president was in the military except for Clinton & Bush Jr...

I know plenty of vets and they are not "The Great Santini" or whatever. Where are you getting this???

[TexasSissy]

72. No, most Presidens were not in the military, I think?

I saw a panel on C-Span discussing, among other things, military histories of past Presidents. There were a handful named. Lincoln was one they named as not having been military (or was it just that he hadn't been a general? No, I think he hadn't been in military at all.) Or maybe the discussion centered on being in positions of leadership in the military and whether that leadership transferred to skill in being the President?

Some I recall they named:

Harrison
Washington
Eisenhower
Teddy Roosevelt
Jackson
Grant
JFK


Two notables who had not been:

Lincoln
FDR

I wonder, though, if having been in military means anything, if in fact MOST men in the U.S. have served in the military.

[mmonk]

73. no

their ideas mean something not whether they were in the military. Alot of people who push so quickly for war and/or conflict happened to not have served in any meaningful way in the military.

[HuskerDem]

55. "We" you mean the communists never had a military ticket?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Sean Reynolds]

67. American communist?

Nope.

[mikehiggins]

74. Hammer and Sickle?

Maybe the Party ought to get a new logo.

The Hammer and Sickle was never welcome in the US, and from what I know of Marx, it would hardly be an apt logo for the society he saw evolving out of turn-of-the-century Europe.

The H&S is sort of like the Confederacy's Battle Flag. A symbol of a dead regime.

[Sean Reynolds]

76. I agree.

I was going to put the CPUSA logo, but couldn't find one good enough to place.

[teevee99]

14. or maybe.....

we could all just discriminate against people who serve in the military by never allowing them to run for office......

how bout that, sean reynolds?

quit acting like a paranoid schizophrenic and examine what wes clark believes in. he doesn't control the military and he's never done anything to make anyone nervous about him becoming a dictator. he derserves your respect for protecting your amily for 38 years.

kerry has been out of the military for 25+ years and protested against it when he left.

sore/loserman

[Sean Reynolds]

15. Lets.

Cause both Clark and Kerry used their military record HOW many times during the election? Seems like every damn time to me.

[teevee99]

17. then while we're at it...

let's discriminate against all people who've held previous public office because lieberman, edwards, kerry and the entire history of elected officials have used that "HOW many times during the election?"

Seems like every damn time to me.

it's called qualifications for the job. some people value military service. just cause you don't doesn't mean the rest of the country doesn't. I don't value previous public elected office experience, but i think some people do.

[Sean Reynolds]

18. Killing people in wars qualifies for the better of this nation?

Where can I sign up?

[teevee99]

21. someone has to protect millions of kosovars.

you gonna do it?

[Sean Reynolds]

22. Just like we were protecting all the Iraqis, right?

What about when Clark targeted civilians? Was that alright too?

[teevee99]

24. iraq is an illegal war, buddy

Kosovo was entirely different. there's no oil in albania, dude.
your smears against clark are lies...
He advocated putting ground troops in to SAVE civilian lives, but the clinton administration and congress didn't want to lose soldiers for fear of public opinion. they put kosovars lives at second fiddle behind saving face.

clark is a good person. you should realize that. you're discriminating on veterans, pal. it's wrong morally and illegal.


p.s. do you think the world is always safe for everyone, pollyanna?

[Sean Reynolds]

25. Of course it was illegal.

But guess what? Your candidate SUPPORTED IT! Well at least supported Kerry, who supported it last year.

[teevee99]

26. your candidate VOTED for the Iraq War resolution.

what do you think? that just because Clark endorsed Kerry he supports everything the man ever did?
that's the worst argument i've ever heard.
sillysillysillysillysillysillysillllllllly

[Sean Reynolds]

27. It's not SILLY when we're talkin war.

When Clark supported Kerry he supported HIS IDEAS. Thus he supported the fact that Kerry backed the Iraq War.

Instead of sticking with the anti-Iraq War crowd, Kucinich, Sharpton and Dean - he sold out and went to Kerry, a pro-war candidate.

[Name removed]

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[Sean Reynolds]

32. It's a difference when there are NO anti-war candidates left.

But Clark had an optinion, three other candidates that did not support the war. He sold out and supported Kerry. Thus he must support the war because wasn't that one major issue in which Clark campaigned? IF it were a wrong vote for Kerry to do, why support him?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[Sean Reynolds]

36. It was a joke.

And yes, I'm a troll. I've camped out here since this place opened and just WAITED three years to 'troll' around. :eyes:

Give me a break.

[teevee99]

38. good explanation

i guess i'm just supposed to believe your lieberman sig was a joke....just like you're supposed to believe clark isn't the second coming of hitler, right?

come off of it man. you still can't honestly argue that clark supports the war because he supports kerry. all these candidates support eh eventual nominee. they've alllllll said so. if it's kerry, will you then say that kucinich, sharpton and dean were for the war?
will you?

[Sean Reynolds]

40. Who said Clark was Hitler?

No and I told you why. CLARK had the optinion to endorse a candidate that opposed the war. If Dean DROPS out, he'll probably endorse Kucinich. But chances are he'll stay in the race until the end. As will Sharpton and Kucinich. They'll endorse the nominee because they'll have NO ONE else to endorse.

[teevee99]

46. we'll see, we'll see

dean will fall in line and endorse kerry.

keep in mind guy, that i won't lift a finger for kerry other than to vote for him against Bush. are you going to vote for anyone but bush....or are you going to be silly and help bushco get 4 more years to kill our country??

[Sean Reynolds]

57. Last I checked VOTING against Bush meant ABB.

Doesn't say ABB must be a Democrat.

[krkaufman]

69. NO. Clark supports Kerry as the best candidate to remove The Chimp.

Period.

[HuskerDem]

56. There's no oil in the Balkans

That's the biggest hole in your comparison. Doesn't really take a rocket scientist to explain one mission was completed to benefit a suffering people and stabilize part of Europe and the other was a neocon pax-america pocket padding expedition.

[mikehiggins]

75. What about Dresden during the Great War to save the Soviet Union?

In this case civilians were never deliberately targeted. People were killed in the military action taking place because old hard-liner Party apparachnik Milosovic declined to take the hint and fall into line with NATO's demands.

The events in Kosovo occurred because force was the only way in which to resolve the situation. The choice was to act, or to allow the murder of a million people.

If we had not acted, as happened in Africa, there would have been no way to stop the bloodletting and people would now be talking about how the US had stood by when a million or so moslems were uprooted and killed. When you can do good, you should.

[mountainvue]

43. Protecting it's citizens does.

[teevee99]

19. p.s.

way to change your sig line
in the middle of this:)
it used to be joe lieberman 04, everyone.

[Sean Reynolds]

39. Ya outed me.

I'm a closet Lieberman supporter. You know, us communists LOVE DLC Democrats.

[LandOLincoln]

34. You don't think maybe it's because we ARE at war, and it's

a passel of chickenhawk Neocon loonies who got us there?
And maybe two brave men who've seen combat and know its horrors firsthand will get us out of this one and keep us out of others?

Tell me, have you ever seen this quote before?

"Only someone who hasn't seen war firsthand would ever say anything as fatuous as 'bring 'em on.'"

Care to guess who said it?

[Sean Reynolds]

37. We wouldn't be at war if Democrats stood up to Bush.

That being KERRY TOO.

[LandOLincoln]

41. How old are you? Just curious.

[Sean Reynolds]

44. Does age matter?

It's the truth, isn't it? Maybe if Democrats actually stood their ground we would have put up a pretty strong fight, but instead they got on their knees and let the Republicans fuck 'em up the ass.

[Name removed]

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[Sean Reynolds]

50. Like yours are?

You've started using personal attacks, how is that adult? And why are you bringing in the Greens? I'm not a Green. Are you trying to make me feel guilty?

[krkaufman]

70. New Hampshire, too

Gore got nadered in a couple states.

The 2000 election, to me, is the best argument for there actually being a god.** Far too many little differences, any one of which flipping back in Gore's favor would have kept The Chimp and Scalia from stealing the election.


** Personally, and contrary to the Commander-in-Thief's opinion, I think *Satan* was behind the machinations putting him into office; and if there's a devil, then there must be a god.

[HuskerDem]

58. Age only matters if you are sensitive about it

or afraid to tell the truth. :shrug:

[HuskerDem]

60. WRONG......... Bush did not need the Democrats to go to war

he was going anyway. I disagree with Kerry and Edwards IWR vote but it's time to move forward.

[mountainvue]

42. Clark

had dedicated almost his entire life to military service. What did you expect him to run on? Kerry is a decorated veteran, former prosecutor and now longtime senator. What would you like them to be?

[Sean Reynolds]

45. Maybe he shouldn't have run at all?

[teevee99]

48. that would be against your beliefs in open discussion

or do you only wish open discussion for those who agree with you. anyone should be able to run. let the voters sort them out.

I support clark, dean and kucinich in that order. looks like i'm going to lose another elecion, like i always do, but the voters have the final say, not me.

the voters picked kerry. deal with it. i am.

[Sean Reynolds]

49. I'll deal with it.

By not voting.

[teevee99]

52. there, we finally get to the bottom of it.

you're willing to bash a person who tried to make a positive difference, but you don't have the pride in your higher views to try to make a difference yourself.


that's wrong. report this to the du admins: you're making the situation worse.

[Sean Reynolds]

53. I had respect for Clark, until he sold out.

It seems you pride yourself in personal attacks. Well, you'll fit RIGHT in here, cause that is the popular defence here.

[HuskerDem]

59. I don't recall you EVER having or showing an OUNCE of respect for Clark

I only recall you smearing, snarking and attacking Clark.

[Sean Reynolds]

61. Really?

Show me the posts up to this day where I really attacked Clark.

[HuskerDem]

63. Uh, huh....... so we can start a "debate" about whether you were "really"

attacking him?

You show me one post where you professed the respect you CLAIM to have given.

[Sean Reynolds]

64. I showed it by not attacking.

Isn't that enough? I didn't support Clark and wouldn't have voted for him, but respected him.

I never attacked. You said I have, show me the proof! All you've got is the attacks TODAY.

[HuskerDem]

65. If you will deny previous instances of snarkiness, I'll go looking

I'm not going to go on an expedition for a post I consider an attack just to get into a debate about humor or some other such nonsense.

I'm too fucking old for that.

[Sean Reynolds]

66. Go.

You'll find no strong attack on Clark from me. I'll be honest I've said some stuff in the past, but a lot of it was in jest. So go look.

[krkaufman]

71. "Not voting" is not not voting

It's pretty basic logic in that if you opt not to vote in the Pres GE, you're really just saying that I accept whatever a plurality of your fellow citizens in your state decide. If they select Bush, then you have selected Bush; if they select the Dem, then you've selected the Dem.

[LandOLincoln]

51. You still haven't answered my question. That speaks volumes,

you know.

Tells me all I need to know. Thanks.

[HuskerDem]

54. The irony of communists protesting militarism is hilarious

Thanks for the comedy break.

















And then there's this:

[RafterMan]

68. LOL

In Soviet Russia, military runs on you!

A picture is indeed worth a thousand words.

[Leilani]

62. I'm more worried about the chicken hawks who never served

like Bush, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Cristol, DeLay, Gingrich, Hastert,Adleman, etc.

These people are much more likely to send someone else's children off to die.

[nolabels]

16. Novak should be JAIL

Maybe the fool will hang around long enough to see them bars from the other side

on edit: nothing spiteful, just airing the facts