Richardson: Homosexuality is a choice

[LBJDemocrat]

He was asked by Melissa Etheridge whether it was genetic or a choice. He said "a choice." Etheridge responded by telling him he probably didn't understand the question.

Your thoughts?

[AlCzervik]

1. i totally missed that exchange but if thats what he said than i really hope

he didn't understand the question.

[goodgd_yall]

67. He didn't

And he didn't understand there was a "right" and a "wrong" answer as far as the LGBT community goes. I think the criticism is too harsh. Obama, Edwards, and Clinton have lousy answers on the gay marriage issue. I frankly preferred Richardson's "spin"---let's be realistic---than the other's spin (of course not including DK and Gravel) of "I'm for civil unions so it shouldn't matter that I'm not for gay marriage and don't ask me too much about why because I don't want you to know that I really think gay relationships are inferior to straight relationships and then you won't like me and, worse, you won't vote for me if I tell you the truth, so I'll just go on and on about how much I think you should have equal this and equal that and have the same rights as every American (except marriage)."

[JudyM]

93. He addressed it today in a clarifying statement

"Let me be clear -- I do not believe that sexual orientation or gender identity happen by choice," Governor Richardson said. "But I'm not a scientist, and the point I was trying to make is that no matter how it happens, we are all equal and should be treated that way under the law. That is what I believe, that is what I have spent my career fighting for. I ask that people look at my record and my actions and they will see I have been a true supporter of the LGBT community." http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/48728141_bill_richardson_bill_richardson_governor_bill_richardsons_statement_clarifying_answer_hrc_f


I'm not for any particular candidate yet, but I do believe it's critical to look at their actions more than their words, and with Richardson we have good reason to believe that he is gay-friendly - for example, he's been actively pushing for domestic partership, even calling a special session to achieve it...

[Sparkly]

2. Did he really?!?!?

Whoo boy... :crazy: Very disappointing. I hope he didn't understand the question.

[Dawgs]

3. Well after she asked he again he said, "I am not a scientist", so I think he meant it.

[LBJDemocrat]

8. Yes nt

[rucky]

4. No, but ignorance is.

apparently.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Praying for a mispeak..........

which ain't what one normally prays for!

[Cameron27]

30. No Frenchie, he said it and he meant it.

He was brutally awful, & sounded sedated and pretty much idiotic. A big, big disappointment.

[ulysses]

6. some room for growth there, Bill.

[MadMaddie]

7. Richardson has used up all of his chances with me...bye..bye..

[tuvor]

9. Did he say when he chose to be heterosexual?

[Sparkly]

11. That would have been the perfect follow-up. nt

[LittleClarkie]

14. Or hispanic?

Hispanic by choice.

[Bryan]

65. Probably after he got drunk and fucked a guy in college, and liked it too much

Seriously, what kind of an answer is that? The only candidate with enough respect for his audience to say he was for civil unions because that's what he thought he could get passed right now, and he says being gay is a choice? The Republican contenders wouldn't say that. Jeezis.

[goodgd_yall]

69. What's more important is what you noted about having enough respect

What he said was out of ignorance---ignorance that the LGBT community has a particular answer they want to hear and that is that it's not a choice. He's straight; you expect him to know THAT much about gayness? I encourage you to remember he IS the only one saying he's for civil unions because that's what he thought he could get passed right now. Obama, Edwards, and Hillary all believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. I don't know if Richardson also believes that, but I like that he hasn't publicly said it. I mean, it's pretty insulting to hear you don't think marriage is appropriate between people of the same sex. Yet these top candidates feel they can say it with impunity.

[msongs]

10. he also used an anti gay slur on a spanish language radio station....

and laughed about it at the time. did not think anything of it, only back peddling when complaints were made.

hmm, is there a theme here?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[elizm]

12. Etheridge was being nice I guess...

What is not to understand....genetic or choice. It will be interesting to see if he tries to backtrack on that answer tomorrow.

[Ediacara]

13. My thoughts?

He's by far the most qualified to be president by several orders of magnitude.

But this is a deal breaker and I just changed my avatar.

[SharonRB]

18. He was my second choice after Gore

I think I'm going to have to rethink that. Gore better run, or I'm in deep doo doo without a candidate.

I did love when he asked Melissa Etheridge to tell Gore not to run.

:rofl:

[Ediacara]

21. This debate was terrible for him

and I am furious because of this idiotic answer...

[proud patriot]

27. Well I guess it's good to find this out now

would have been nicer to find out a few months ago though.

:hug:

[Ediacara]

29. I guess that's the best way to think of it

Anyone got Al Gore's number?

[proud patriot]

31. See now you are stuck with me again

:rofl: I wrote him awhile back and received a letter back that everyone gets
from him ..

I sure hope he does jump in ...

[goodgd_yall]

70. Why is it a deal breaker?

DinoBoy, do you really expect the guy to have the politically correct answer? He's straight. He didn't do his homework. (Would the other candidates do any better?) The fact is that he is for our rights. He has not, as Obama, Edwards, and Clinton done, said that he believes marriage is between a man and a woman. And yes, all 3 of the top contenders have said that, maybe not in debates, but in interviews, and Obama in his HRC questionnaire.

I say give it some more thought.

[terrya]

95. Yeah, I hear you.

When a candidate starts bandying words about like "choice" and "lifestyle" and all of that, it does follow that said candidate is less than fully enlightened about gay and lesbian people. And yes, it's a big problem.

[TomClash]

15. Who cares?

If homosexuality is by choice or genetics, by what right or what standard should someone discriminated against for sexual preference?

[iamjoy]

33. I Agree

Even if homosexuality is a choice, why should that be used to justify discrimination? It isn't legal to discriminate on the basis of religion. And I use religion as an analogy because many religious people (who consider homosexuality immoral) also belive anyone who does not share their faith is immoral, or damned.

Personally, from what I've heard of Kinsey's theory, it seems logical. I think for some it is a choice. I think for others, they could no more be the other way (gay/straight) than they could cheerfully part with a limb.

Who are we to judge either way?

[JudyM]

87. And I agree with you. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

48. If it's widely considered a behavioral choice, rather than nature, then

you're going to get a whole lot more people convinced that it's a sin, a character flaw, a perversion--rather than simply a neutral part of who you are, like your eye color or being left-handed. I think that's the danger in promoting the "choice" theory--you get the Ted Haggard "Pray the Gay Away" syndrome. Discrimination will follow.

[goodgd_yall]

66. Nevertheless

Believing it can be a choice should not always be equated with the bigots who moralize about gayness based on the "choice" theory. I've never given a hoot about the whys of being gay. I think Richardson was sincere believing in equality for LGBT people; the how and why was not important to him. It's unfortunate he wasn't aware enough of the LGBT community to know that would be the "wrong" answer. I didn't think anything of it myself. I care whether a candidate supports my rights.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

78. That's very dangerous grounds for making a decision on.

Whether or to what extent sexual orientation is determined by genetics, choice or environment is still very much an open question.

It should be answered on evidential grounds, not by considering which answer will give ammunition to bigots.

If we can't put together a coherent explanation of why discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation is wrong even if it turns out to be solely a matter of choice, we should give up and go home, frankly.


From what I've seen, it's a matter of choice for some people but not for others. The non-trivial number of people who change from describing themself as "gay" or "straight" to the other one implies that in many cases it must be a choice, while my understanding there is increasingly strong but not yet totally conclusive evidence that genetics also plays a significant part too.

So the best answer to "is sexual orientation a choice?" is probably "for some people, but not others", I guess. I wouldn't be able to defend that in a research journal, though.

[Lasher]

94. It frames the argument

Some say they are offended by the use of the label 'preference' instead of 'orientation' but there is more to it than that. It is easier to solicit compassion for those whose homosexuality is a genetic condition of birth than it is for people who have made a lifestyle choice.

We need only look to other species of this planet to realize that sexual orientation is not a matter of choice. But if we reflect on the lives of the ancient Spartans we must conclude that it sometimes is.

I agree with you. Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.

[treestar]

83. You've let the fundies frame the debate right there

That's their position - it's not unopposable, though.

Just because something is a choice doesn't make it a character flaw because the fundies say so.

No one knows if it is a choice or not. The problem with saying it's genetic is that it's a theory and you can't prove it and thus are open to more fundie sneering.

People have to stand up for their rights to choose whatever, or the fundies have won.

[JudyM]

89. I think until the science is in, only GLBTs have standing to speak with any authority

on whether it's a choice or not. And in my experience, it is a choice for some (i.e., those who are bi) and not for others (many, many gay guys and lesbians I've spoken with). I wish we weren't pinning all our rights on it being genetic, because if it's ultimately determined to have little or no genetic basis we end up losing political ground.

[TwilightGardener]

91. I don't presume to speak for anybody (not being gay), and I don't

know to what extent it's nature/nurture/choice, just offering my opinion as to what would happen societally if the predominant school of thought was that GLBT is a choice--the next logical thought, for some, would be--then choose NOT to be. Not saying that discrimination is acceptable in any circumstance. Just offering an opinion on why the choice/nature argument might matter.

[JudyM]

97. Yep, I know what you mean. To the fundies, it matters bc they can only argue immorality

if it is a choice. Key is that we all are pinning too much on the scientific outcome of the debate rather than just saying it doesn't matter, that we are consenting adults with a right to choose and therefore to live with full societal rights regardless.

:thumbsup:

[orleans]

63. did he add that to his answer when he said it was by choice? n/t

[IndyOp]

16. I like to ask my IntroPsych students, if they think homosexuality is a choice,

do they remember asking themselves whether they would rather have a crush on Jeff or Janet? Jeff had a nice smile, but Janet had freckles... Kyle? Karen? Mike? Melissa?

I don't remember making any choice, I just "liked" who I "liked"...

[Double T]

17. Richardson is NOT Presidential material.

[eleny]

19. Knucklehead

I was making some dinner and missed most of his time. I'll have to watch the replay. But that's a pretty knuckle dragging position.

[merh]

20. And he calls himself a statesman

Like when he said this

Gov. Richardson ‘pretty close’ to calling for Gonzales to resign
By Sam Youngman
April 17, 2007
Presidential candidate and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson (D) said Monday the reason he has not called for the removal of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is that the two both have Hispanic backgrounds.

Richardson, in an interview with The Hill, said he is “pretty close” to making such a call, but added that he is reluctant to do so before Gonzales’s Senate testimony despite the high-profile involvement of New Mexico in the U.S. attorneys scandal.

“The only reason I’m not there is because he’s Hispanic, and I know him and like him,” Richardson said, adding, “It’s because he’s Hispanic. I’m honest.

“I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.”

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/gov.-richardson-pretty-close-to-calling-for-gonzales-to-resign-2007-04-17.html

He is a bigoted politician, corporatist. That is all he is.

[aquart]

25. No, it isn't all he is. That's why this is so sad.

There is more. But it's not enough.

[merh]

28. what "more" is there

He has publicly stood by Gonzoles because he was hispanic, if Obama said "I stand by Vick because he is black" would there not be the rush to call him bigotted? What if Hillary said she stood by Libby because he was white?

And it's not like the gay marriage issue is some new "issue" that caught him off guard. His ignorance (which I believe to be more than ignorance, but that's my gut) is inexcusable, he should have taken steps to become informed.

And then there are the seats he held on VECO and Diamond Oil corps board of directors just after he left his post of Secretary of Energy.

And least we forget, he prevented/opposed the 2004 recounts in NM, said recounts were vital to Ohio's efforts.

What "more" is there?

[Alexander]

62. Agreed. Richardson belongs nowhere near the White House...

unless he takes the tour.

[crim son]

22. I wonder, can not one think homosexuality is a choice and yet

be fully and actively engaged in promoting equal rights for persons of all colors, nationalities, genders or sexualities? I'm not defending Richardson because I haven't paid any attention to him. Neither do I believe that homosexuality is a choice, not any more than heterosexuality is a choice. But can we assume that because anybody believes that being gay is a choice it necessarily follows that they are narrow-minded homophobes? It's like assuming that there are no rich Democrats. It isn't true and we might lose some important backers if we act as though it were.

[Solon]

34. The problem is that this is like saying you would support a candidate who thinks eye color is a...

choice. Its was a stupid statement made by someone who is ignorant of current scientific studies.

[crim son]

42. True, and since the issue is so visible, he ought to be better informed.

On the other hand, I haven't read anything that has determined conclusively that being gay is genetically determined in the way that, say, eye color is determined, that is, for some people the science has not sufficiently supported the notion that sexuality is genetically coded.

I'm just being a pain in the ass. It's just that I do know a few simple souls who have a live and let live attitude, yet couldn't come up with any meaningful comment on the gay rights debate. Sigh. Idiots have opinions too, and sometimes our opinions coincide.

Cheers.

[Solon]

43. There is no concensus, that is true, however, the evidence, right now...

points to homosexuality NOT being a choice, whether its genetics or not seems to be the sticking point. The fact is that genetics doesn't determine EVERYTHING, there are people that are genetically female that are biologically male and vice versa, the fact of the matter is that the exact mechanisms determining homo or heterosexuality aren't that well understood. However, this doesn't mean that the evidence gathered so far, from observations and studies of not only humans, but other animals as well, seems to support the "no choice" argument.

[goodgd_yall]

72. Why should he be up on the studies?

It could be he never thought the question important. I'm a lesbian and I never have.

[Solon]

76. Well, he's a politician and wants to be President...

If I were in his shoes I would want to know EVERYTHING about an issue, from all sides, to help form an opinion. Then again, maybe I'm the wrong person to ask. I'm naturally inquisitive, and if I, for example, were to form an opinion on an issue, I would try to ground it in fact. If I were ever elected into office, I would make sure I had access to every major medical and scientific journal on the planet, issue papers from advocacy groups, and try to avoid the M$M filter as much as possible. I'm also a voracious reader, I read pretty much everything I can get my hands on, in fact, I finally got my hands on "War and Peace", its pretty thick, should take me 3 days to read it, give or take. :)

I have an overflowing bookshelf of books I've read at least twice, unfortunately my budget doesn't meet my demand for knowledge. Thank the Gods for the Internet, or I would go crazy. E-Books, especially public domain classics, are my current obsession. I guess I shouldn't expect the same outlook with regards to politicians, too bad, maybe we would have less nonsense like Partial Birth Abortion bans and other BS that sometimes goes through Congress.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

79. I don't think that's the case.

You overstate both the conclusivness and the unanimity of the scientific material considerably, from what I know.

There's increasingly good evidence that genetic factors play some part in determining sexual orientation, but that's not quite the same claim.

My impression is that the answer to "is sexual orientation a choice?" is likely to be "for some people."

[goodgd_yall]

71. Yes one can.

There is a lot of kneejerk reaction going on tonight over Richardson. It's distracting from critiquing the other candidates.

[stillcool]

23. Playing to the 'middle'...

The Say and do anything Theater of political discourse.

[AtomicKitten]

24. that's not good

[SaveElmer]

26. Boy...I am not normally someon who would not vote for someone on one issue...

But this is very bad!!!

[saltpoint]

32. I think the APA thinks it's not a choice, and even if it were, what

business is it of the Right to restrict individual expression of love between two women or two men?

Richardson should delegate somebody on his staff to do a synopsis of this issue so he is more current.

[nealmhughes]

35. Escoger o no escoger, la pregunta es. La simplicidad de niños,, no de

diplomaticos o presidentes. . .

[Gloria]

36. I guess he doesn't keep up with the literature on this subject....

too busy ignoring ballot problems....

[orleans]

64. KICK! (exactly!) n/t

[Snot Hannity]

37. "I don't know"

would have been a good answer. Why do these guys/gal have to have an answer for everything and end up putting their foot in their mouth?

[Cameron27]

41. I don't know, it may have been better, but he still would have

sounded like an idiot who never bothered to pick up a scientific paper on the subject.

[Tejanocrat]

38. Richardson - Being gay is a choice but being born Hispanic is a get out of jail free card:

From The Hill, April 17, 2007

Presidential candidate and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson (D) said Monday the reason he has not called for the removal of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is that the two both have Hispanic backgrounds.

Richardson, in an interview with The Hill, said he is "pretty close" to making such a call, but added that he is reluctant to do so before Gonzales’s Senate testimony despite the high-profile involvement of New Mexico in the U.S. attorneys scandal. "The only reason I’m not there is because he’s Hispanic, and I know him and like him," Richardson said, adding, "It's because he’s Hispanic."

[speedoo]

40. Oh YES!!!

That's spot fucking on.

Get lost, Bill, you hypocrite.

[Hieronymus]

52. Obviously, Richardson doesn't really want to be elected.

[goodgd_yall]

73. 3 days later he said this

"After reviewing the attorney general's behavior, I must reluctantly conclude that new leadership is needed," Richardson said in an interview with The Associated Press. "It's time for him to go."

Maybe it was pressure from his statements 3 days earlier, maybe he needed more evidence to come to this conclusion, who knows.

[speedoo]

39. I'm beginning to wonder if I can work for ANY of these clowns.

That's a real bummer. I liked him, for several reasons, but I can't support him now.

[BeyondGeography]

44. At this rate, Richardson will talk his way out of that VP slot many people have tabbed him for

He has had many awful moments in debates. You never know what ill-phrased, half-baked thoughts are going to come out of his head.

[smalll]

45. Bill "Huggy Bear" Richardson --

-- Of course being gay is a choice, I CHOOSE to feel up the women in my staff, not the men. Everyone has a choice as to whome they grab inappropriately. Some people just choose to "grope gay!" :crazy:

[Hieronymus]

46. I thought Richardson was a good guy until I read that .. forget him.

[Sapphocrat]

47. Tonight was the final straw.

I was half-open to cutting him some slack for the "maricon" remark, but after tonight, forget it.

You blew it with this lesbian, Bill.

[Hieronymus]

49. Richardson's plan for health care is to give tax credits .. screw you, Bill.

[janx]

50. Link, please?

This is totally out of context. :shrug:

[Colobo]

53. Totally out of context? Watch the debate on Logo

[Colobo]

55. Link here

http://visiblevote08.logoonline.com/

Take a look.

[shireen]

51. he said WHAT?!

that guy just lost me. :(

[SharonRB]

86. Yeah, me, too

It was really a stupid answer.

[shireen]

54. i thought Richardson was a smart guy

Anyone capable of reading and critical thinking knows by now that there's more than enough scientific proof that it is NOT a choice. This is so disappointing. He just lost me. :(

[Hawkowl]

56. IDIOT

We need an intelligent, compassionate president. Apparently we can rule the dumbass Richardson out.

[BenDavid]

57. Damn! Well from what the right

wing has been saying all these years it was the environment that person was raised in contributed more...All I have to say is what kind of home environment did Dick and Liz Chaney raise their daughter in....DAMN!
I do thank you
Ben David

[fujiyama]

58. Did he expand on that?

Because by labeling it a choice, he makes himself look pretty stupid.

I don't remember choosing at one point in my life to be straight. I was attracted to females...That's all there was.

I would assume it's the same for gay people.

From what I'd heard, he has a pretty decent record on LGBT issues. I'm surprised any Democrat would screw up in such a way...that's pretty embarrassing.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

59. Wow, and he was moving up nicely in Iowa and New Hampshire. He is probably toast now nt

[Lugnut]

60. Okay.

I've just chalked off one more candidate from my list.

[mzmolly]

61. Richardson is not "suave." I wonder if he even understood the implications of his answer?

Either way, he blew it, much to the delight of other participants. ;) Ahhh, I expect "clarification" in the am.

[Maraya1969]

68. Do you remember when you made the CHOICE to be straight???

[Donald Ian Rankin]

81. No, but I've seen other people do it.

I think the answer to "is sexual orientation a matter of choice" is almost certainly "for some people", rather than a simple "no".

[rosesaylavee]

74. My thoughts are

he's toast. Not knowing your audience, not understanding a community that is suffering from lack of legal support (healthcare, marriage, civil rights)currently is not a good thing for a candidate. If he was speaking to a black community or a hispanic community or an organization of women, don't you think he and his staff would brief prior regarding his stance on issues important to that community? Makes me wonder what his staff is about too.

And the fact that he is straight is no excuse. He is also not a woman or black. This remark was simply ignorant and reflects his level of respect for communities to which he doesn't belong.

[AnotherGreenWorld]

75. Richardson should be running as a Republican

Etheridge: Is homosexuality genetic or a choice?
Richardson: It's a choice.
Etheridge: You probably didn't understand the question.

Ha ha.

[elizm]

77. He's toast. nt

[sendero]

80. I've learned not to expect too much from..

... any politician. But an answer like that can only come from two kinds of people:

1) the truly ignorant

2) the truly pandering


I won't vote for either, not that Richardson had a chance in hell anyway.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

82. Really?

He has been uber supportive or GLBT rights in New Mexico and generally attends the big annual GLBT pride parade in Santa Fe. I, dont really believe this to be honest!

[Totally Committed]

84. To me: "Homosexuality is a choice" = "I don't believe in evolution"

Both are equally ignorant and stupid. I wouldn't vote for a candidate who believed either of those things.

TC

[paulk]

85. he's running for vp, and setting himself up

as a conservative balance to HRC, who many Americans view as leaning left.

[Rambis]

88. I saw him last week

I am solid for Edwards now. He was so bad it was painful to watch.

[beastieboy]

90. That was the final nail in the coffin for him, IMO.

[cboy4]

92. I'm deeply disappointed with Richardson. I'm afraid I'm

forced to cross him off my list, despite his apology that I view as phony.

[LanternWaste]

96. the analogy that made the most sense to me...

Qualifier-- I'm straight, naive and haven't been around alternative lifestyles very much (so if I say something really, really dumb-- blame my ignorance rather than my intentions).

That said, the analogy that made the most sense to me was the question posed to me some time ago, "Lantern Waste, did you choose to be left-handed or do you believe you were born that way? Do you think you'd be comfortable using your right hand to write or do you believe it would feel... weird. Unnatural for lack of a better word?"

I think it's something wired into us at birth (or maybe even prior to birth). I don't pretend to understand the biological or social aspect of it, but it's hard for me to imagine someone would make a choice that even now still appears to cause so much anguish and pain in our culture.

[goodhue]

98. Pretty big blunder

I'm amazed he hadn't thought it through. Demonstrates quite a bit of ignorance about GLBT rights.

[musiclawyer]

99. Richardson es un idioto

Perhaps a nice guy. Perhaps well intentioned. But no mas. We need people like him to step aside.

[Karenina]

100. WRONG ANSWER. Get the hook!!!

:eyes: If the man is unaware of the gravity of the answer to such a question, can he be trusted to understand... OH NEVER MIND.

[democratsin08]

101. here is my thought

its about time one of our candidates has the courage to disagree with one of our lobby groups on something.

[Sparkly]

102. "one of our lobby groups?"

Umm.... okay. :shrug: