Rep. Louise M. Slaughter(D) New York: “They have got us in a vise”

[dajoki]

Democrats Feel Pressure on Spy Program
By CARL HULSE and EDMUND L. ANDREWS
Published: August 5, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/washington/05nsa.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin

WASHINGTON, Aug. 4 — Under pressure from President Bush, House Democrats on Saturday grudgingly prepared to move ahead with approving changes in a terrorist surveillance program despite serious reservations about the scope of the measure.

With time running out before a scheduled monthlong break and the Senate already in recess, House Democrats confronted the choice of accepting the administration’s bill or letting it die. If it died, that would leave Democratic lawmakers, who have long been anxious about appearing weak on national security issues, facing an August fending off charges from Mr. Bush and Republicans that they left Americans exposed to terror threats.

There was no indication that lawmakers were responding to new intelligence warnings. Rather, Democrats were responding to administration pleas that a recent secret court ruling had created a legal obstacle in monitoring foreign communications relayed over the Internet. They also appeared worried about the political repercussions of being perceived as interfering with intelligence gathering. But the disputes were significant enough that they were likely to resurface before the end of the year.

Democrats have expressed concerns that the administration is reaching for powers that go well beyond solving what officials have depicted as narrow technical issues in the current law.

“They have got us in a vise,” Representative Louise M. Slaughter, Democrat of New York and chairwoman of the Rules Committee, said as she left a Saturday afternoon meeting where senior Democrats were debating how to handle the issue in the final hours before recess.

[thoughtanarchist]

1. YOU! ARE! THE! FUCKING! MAJORITY!!!!

Act like it!

:grr:

[NRaleighLiberal]

2. Bullshit. Weak. Assholes. Disgust.

I am a pretty smart guy, and I confess to have no understanding at all of how a 25% popularity idiot in the white house surrounded by common criminals commiting crimes in the light of day can have the Dems in a Vice.


Or....do they have examples of Vice amongst the dem leadership? (so called leadership).

Must be some big book of some pretty damning pictures, that's for sure.

I am sick. I am going to bed.

[dajoki]

5. How can they cave to...

someone with absolutely no credibility at all?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3426467

[vssmith]

39. Simple--we have a bunch of elected pussies

[DavidDvorkin]

3. What vise? What pressure?

What bullshit.

[burrowowl]

4. Even if you are in a vise

Be a WOMAN and not a wishy-washy spineless jellyfish! Jesus H. Christ and God Damnit!

[rurallib]

There is what? maybe 5,000 Al quiedas and this country's

leadership is just pissing their pants over them. Al Quieda is not what you should be scared of, it is Bush and his minions in the press.
Goddamn chickenshits.

[Gloria]

6. If you're in a vise, you should be screaming bloody murder!

What a load of crap.

[Karenina]

54. Weezy has done so in the past.

Sorry all, she's a GOOD WOMAN and I DO WONDER WTF is gong on behind closed doors.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1519473

[IndyOp]

7. Only inside the beltway is there a vise and it is of your own groupthink creation. (n/t)

[Avalux]

8. I have to agree unfortunately.

Majority yes; but lets look at a scenario. The Democrats don't pass the FISA bill, go on vacation and a terrorist attack conveniently happens. Think about it for a minute and think about how this psycho administration would use it to destroy Dems - it would be their fault. I don't think I have to explain the ramifications.

The law can be changed once a Dem becomes president; and Gonzo won't be AG forever.

[dajoki]

13. How about this...

Pass the Dem Bill and let shrub veto it before he goes on vacation and he is shown to be the ass.

[Avalux]

17. Dems would still be blamed.

We have to keep in mind the vast majority of American citizens do not know as much as we do and will believe just about anything. Why do you think Fox News is so damn popular? Bushco is desperate to continue their stranglehold on this country and the only way to do it is to keep us afraid. Dare I say it - another terror attack would complete their power grab. It would be way too easy.

[dajoki]

19. You are correct...

about most Americans and Bush's rule by fear. But its time we, and I mean us, our lawmakers and our spinners at least try to turn the tide. Bush is so hated by the majority of Americans, they might be looking for a reason to turn on him. Lets give it to them.

[tigereye]

28. why do they need to be afraid and why should we Dems be afraid?

why do they think they won the election in the first place? Because voters disliked the way the war and these surveillance laws were being handled.... by Republicans.


This is very confusing. The court said the admin was wrong.... so it would follow that there is plenty of support for not giving Bush what he wants. :shrug:

[elizm]

35. The power grab is complete....

We have nothing to lose.

[PBass]

55. Democrats will be blamed by the Right Wing, no matter what...

if there is another terrorist attack on US soil (God forbid)... the Democratic Party will be blamed. Signing this bad bill will NOT change that.

[alarimer]

41. The Administration must be planning something

"Don't pass this bill and we will blow up the Sears Tower" or something.

This certainly makes it seem as if every single terrorist threat is an operation conducted entirely by the Bush Administration. How else can you explain the blackmail of the Dems?

[Inuca]

48. Glad to see I am not alone

I have been mad as hell these last couple of days. But I think Rep. Slaughter put it perfectly, a VISE. Damn if they do, damn if they don't. I keep saying that there must have been SOME WAY for the dems not to be played like this, but I do not really know how. One thing is (almost) sure though, they could have stayed a few more days in Washington and tried harder at a compromise. The Senate attempt was especially pathetic. They spent the whole day on Friday working on their own version of the bill (or so I assume), and then, as soon as it was "ready" they brought it to the floor. I remember the much reviled Diane Feinstein mentioning how she barely had a chance to have a look at the bill! The whole thing has been a huge exercise in frustration (for me that is, I assume that for many democrats in COngress as well).

[AtomicKitten]

9. Dems need to stop buying into this BS.

Holy shit mother of god. They needed to INSIST the mo-fo follows the law which means going through the FISA court and then prosecute his ass for breaking the law by not doing that ... repeatedly.

ITMFA!!!!!

[IndianaGreen]

32. I think they are beyond help!

Perhaps it is time for all the real progressives "with cojones" to bolt into a new party along the lines of Britain's Liberal Democrats.

I wish we had the choices our friends across the Atlantic have.

[spag68]

10. Rep Slaughter

is a tough and pragmatic politician. You people screaming your obscenity's should look at the issues and try to understand how things like this play out on the national stage. If you ever watched Rep. Slaughter on the c-span coverage of committees, you would know her better. IMHO some of the most outrageous stuff here is being planted to stir trouble in Dem. circles. Take a deep breath and ask yourself if this vitriol is productive to progressive ideals and goals. They didn't give the thug anything he doesn't already do. If the dems. you are screaming about don't do better in the fall, then work to replace them with better, more progressive candidates. Don't let these things stop what appears to be movement by the populace to a more progressive stance.
Keep the spirit alive and debate all you want, but don't fall into the rovian trap of bashing our own party. Please.

[AtomicKitten]

14. respectfully

People are LIVID that the administration is committing felony after impeachable felony unscathed.

It is Congress' job to perform the checks and balances that are VITAL to democracy and that supercedes BY A LONGSHOT an eye on the next election. This cannot wait until the next election.

America is upside down in a ditch on fire (nod to Eddie Izzard).

There is nothing wrong and everything about expecting Congress to do their job. Nothing radical about that.

[spag68]

21. Gore would be my first choice.

[AtomicKitten]

23. mine too - by a long shot

[liberalmike27]

36. I'll tell you how it plays out

It plays out with Democrats making their case, and going home.

Hey, we passed a bill where we allowed wiretaps. All they have to do is get their (corrupt) attourney general to sign off, and a board of 2 democrats, and 2 republicans signing off for the wiretap. I must say, the president has our bill, a good bill. If he doesn't sign it, it is his own fault. The only reason that someone would want to have all the power, especially in an administration as secretive as this one, is so he can use these powers to preemptively spy on his political opponents, and he probably will. If he doesn't sign, and something happens, it is on his head.

That's how you do it. You sent them out in force, you make the argument. I'm beginning to believe that the democrats just don't give a shit anymore, and are going along.

[bvar22]

40. None of the vitriol on this page

comes close to the vitriol spewed on America by our represenatives this weekend!

In fairness, only some Democrats betrayed us, but it was enough, and the Democratic Party (leadership) consistently fails to hold them accountable. (again)

[Spiffarino]

58. .

[Spiffarino]

57. Is, in this case, a hack.

I'm sorry, but political pragmatism does not trump the Constitution. Louise Slaughter has been an awesome member of the House for a long time. It's time for her to get real on this and stop being afraid of the big bad Republican Noise Machine.

Regardless of her illustrious past, Louise does not get a pass on this one: Nobody does. She took an oath to preserve, protect and defend the United States Constitution. This President and his henchmen are hell-bent on destroying it. If she cannot defend it against these bastards, she needs to step aside for somebody who will.

[man4allcats]

11. “They have got us in a vise...”

Either we do what Bush wants or we have to change our vacation plans.

Note to Congress: Hey folks. Here's a thought for you. I'm sure many of us wouldn't miss you at all if you decided to take a permanent vacation. In fact, if there's ever another election, we just might be able to help at least a few of you with that.

[ananda]

33. vacation schmacation

The troops don't even get a break.

Poor and working class people don't get a break.

Supposedly elected officials with a job to do
shouldn't even be worried about a fukkin break.

It's appalling the depths this admin and Congress
have sunk to.

They are snakes who would have trouble playing
limbo under a very low pole.

Rights have gone down the drain. The president
and his office do not consider or adhere to the
Constitution or the rule of law. Congress just acts
as the whipped dog doing the master's bidding, as
they rake in loads of dough from their rich and
corporate financiers.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven, like a shit
pile with mounds of cloying perfumy rhetoric and
media tripe to attempt to make it bearable.

It's not.

[AX10]

12. I have to agree in part. And that is why I have learned to hate these...

people more and more each day. I hate these people and everything they stand for. Everyday, they are in power I learn to hate them more. It's not just the GOP, but the millions of assholes who support them.

I have never seen such dirty tactics used in my lifetime.

The Democrats gave Adolf Bush this bill because they know that the PR disaster that would await them should another terrorist attack occur.

[dajoki]

15. Yes, the thugs are good at spin and PR...

but we could have made Bush sign the Dem bill or veto it and reverse the spin.

[Avalux]

18. Thank you - we are thinking the same thing.

It makes me sick how utterly psychopathic Buscho and their supporters are - it's an epidemic. They will do ANYTHING to get what they want; the end always justifies the means.

[Maccagirl]

16. Why did we bother to vote last November

if it was going to result in more :scared: and Bush and his cabal getting what they want in the end anyway? If the Dems have a better plan to protect the citizens (that play them) than the illegal and idiotic "big net" we have now, than they better get their act together and quickly.

[countmyvote4real]

20. For the record, Slaughter voted NO tonight.

I would like to know the context and full text of that quote.

Sadly, there were 41 Democratic pissy pants cowards that wiped their asses with our Constitution tonight. I hope they find themselves in a new vice: being reelected.

[dajoki]

22. Do you happen to have that list?

I couldn't find it yet.

[cosmicdot]

24. try this

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/roll836.xml

[dajoki]

25. Thank you, that's it n/t

[maryallen]

45. Yes, but she's excusing the 41 who voted yes ...

with her little "putting us in a vise" statement.

She's enabling other Dems to act counter to the nation's best interests.

We don't need another "Mommy;"
we need WARRIORS, willing to fight.

[dajoki]

26. The New York Times has changed the story...

I posted original thread at 11:20 PM 8/5/07. The five paragraphs were in the original link I posted. Now at 12:46 AM 8/6/07 the article has changed. Same link now different story:http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/05/washington/05nsa.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=us&adxnnlx=1186288200-bfR7bNXZ+0H+3zybE182jw

[emilyg]

27. Sorry excuse

[IndianaGreen]

29. Democrats are as guilty as the GOP in dismantling the Constitution

Both major parties are equally to be blamed for destroying the once great American republic, and for bringing tyranny to our shores.

[windbreeze]

30. JUST SAY NO...for crying out loud...how the hell hard is it for these

people WE ELECTED...TO SAY NO????...isn't that what we want them to say???? aren't we paying them to REPRESENT US and to DO WHAT WE WANT????...then why is it so hard for them to DO THE JOB we pay them for????...Damn...!! I'm sick to death of the whining...boo fucking hoo...She needs to understand...IF they think bushy baby has them in a vice now...JUST WAIT, until she and the rest of these whimps come up for re-election....stall it...don't give in, because you give him free reign if you do..and make everything he's done so far...LEGAL, clear back to 2001!!...then he's off scott free...and laughing as he gives all of us the one finger salute...courtesy of our very own Democratic Congress....
wb

[ProudDad]

31. Does anyone have a list of the DEM TRAITORS?

There appear to have been 41 chicken-shit dems who don't have any respect for civil rights...

:grr:


Thanks, Cosmicdot -- I see it now...

"Protect America Act" <--- TOTAL, ABSOLUTE, COMPLETE BULLSHIT!!!!

S 1927 -- I'm not sure that's the one... Are you sure???


I love the way the M$M doesn't put the bill numbers in their fucking stories -- NOT!!!

[Roland99]

34. No bill would have meant a new MIHOP

Then where would we be?

[maryallen]

46. Not giving in to war criminals?

That's where we'd be.

[Roland99]

51. Which is worse? A newly fabricated 9/11 2.0 or this bill?

A new '9/11' gives the GOP clout, in their deluded minds, to further lockdown things in the U.S. Things like, oh, 1st Amendment....

[sueh]

59. Then the Dems need to spin this to their advantage...

if, in the not too distant future there ISN'T another 9/11, the Dems should take CREDIT for it because the Dems made us "safer"... :shrug:

[Rose Siding]

37. If they didn't before, they do now that they can spy on you at will.

And the sell-outs who supported this violent assault on the Constitution will STILL face Republican critics who call them Weak On Terror. So, so shortsighted.

[high density]

38. These people are always so worried about getting elected

Maybe we should have term limits of one term. Two years, do your thing, and then get out, assholes.

"Gee whiz, we had to vote for it or else the Republicans were going to be meanies," is not a valid reason to approve legislation.

[quiet.american]

42. After all this time, why don't our Dem leaders know how to play the offensive?

If the Dems were truly afraid that not passing this bill would have had them "facing an August fending off charges from Mr. Bush and Republicans that they left Americans exposed to terror threats" -- why not go on the offensive, and make a talking point of something like the following --

"Make no mistake -- what the president is asking us to do is look the other way while he carries on with illegal and unconstitutional activity. There are already programs in place that legally give his administration the tools they need to counteract terrorism. These are the same tools that gave his administration a treasure trove of information which they ignored leading up to 9/11. They will try to tell you that not passing this bill leaves us open to terrorist attacks -- that will be an outrageous lie. What the blocking of this bill truly accomplishes is 1) blocking the president from further illegal spying activity on the citizens of this country 2) guiding the country back towards honoring our constitution 3) forcing this administration to use the legal tools at their disposal to fight terrorism -- again -- the same tools that provided actionable intelligence prior to 9/11 and which they ignored. As representatives of the American people, we will not be a party to allowing this president the opportunity to further abuse the constitution of this country.

It's so telling, too, isn't it, that the Dems were more afraid of Republican cockroach name-calling and fear-mongering, that the disgust and anger of those who actually vote for them. All the cockroaches have to do is pull their childish tantrums filled with faux rage, and poof! we give in and the country -- and the world -- loses.

[dajoki]

47. I do not get...

why the Dems are still afraid of Bushco. I mean, his numbers are in the toilet and he has no credibility at all. They should give him the bill and let him sign it or veto it. Then it will be on him and the Dems can start calling him the same names they are used to being called.

[quiet.american]

52. Yep -- that's two of us. n/t

[dajoki]

62. Yes, it seems simple enough n/t

[Donald Ian Rankin]

43. I would not play chicken with Bush if the life he was gambling was not his own.

Sadly, I think that she's probably right.

[maryallen]

44. Go home, Louise.

Resign and allow one of your constituents who is NOT A COWARD to represent your district.

You've outserved your usefulness to this nation.

A vise?

BS!!!

[Inuca]

49. This is RIDICULOUS!

Rep Slaughter is most definitely one of the good guys/gals. If you don't know it, go and check it out. And do not speak about what you do not know! I am LIVID about what happened with FISA, but spewing ridiculoous accusations like this does not help anyone. So, excuse the rudeness, but just shut up. Really.

[maryallen]

63. I will NOT SHUT UP!

You will not abridge my FIRST AMENDMENT rights as the Congress has just trampled my FOURTH AMENDMENT rights to freedom from illegal search and seizure.

I will say, however, that "previously" I had respected Ms. Slaughter and read eagerly her posts here and at Daily Kos. I think that I probably did over-react to her response, but I don't take back that she was attempting to cover for those that voted yes. What I hoped she would do, is loudly question Democrats who voted in favor; call them out for walking all over the constitution; question Nancy Pelosi for allowing this piece of crap legislation to come to the floor. But she didn't and it was this enabling posture that finally sent me over the edge with the Democrats.

I have been at DU since almost the beginning and I have watched -- year by year -- the Democrats give away more and more power. It started for me with the stealing of the 2000 election and I can remember on the day after the voting, Gov. Ed Rendell, the Democratic party Chairperson from PA -- at the time -- agreeing with Wolfe Blitzer on CNN that Al Gore should probably concede the election. Concede?! One day after the vote and the fix was in. The pit of my stomach told me then that something was badly amiss in the party ... in the country.

After 911, I expected Democrats to demand all kinds of investigations, but they didn't. I expected them to insist that our electoral process be fixed, but they didn't. Even John Kerry, whose election was also stolen, conceded with little fanfare on the second day. I couldn't believe it!

Then, too many Democrats joined Republicans and voted for War in Iraq; supported and voted for the Patriot Act; agreed to increases in the budget for the war; and said little to nothing when HABEAS CORPUS was eliminated in this country. They didn't demand proper investigations into Abu Graib, paid very little attention to the Valerie Plame affair, and obviously have no serious objections to Cheney or Gonzales.

Our party is broken. Our government is broken. And I am heart-broken and furious.

[KoKo]

50. Louise Slaughter was a HERO of mine along with Conyers and Waxman...

but her answer to what "THEY HAVE DONE...in our DEM's NAMES" rings hollow here. She was always on Ed Schultz she kept post to Progressives about the CHANGE she would BRING if Dems got the majority.

She is dead to me now....because she is offering some kind of apology......for her failures.

She is a "fallen hero" to me. One of us them who gave us HOPE that if we won back the HOUSE we could have our VOICES HEARD...

Yeah...Louise... we see what that got us.. :-(

[Rosa Luxemburg]

53. asking for a warrant is not being weak

tis the law

[Hawkowl]

56. IDIOTS

The irony is by voting FOR this tyrannical piece of fascist crap, you appear as a weak rubber stamp. Voting NO is the show of strength. I no longer identify myself as a democrat. I'm ashamed.

Cowards and traitors rule the democratic party right now.

[Seabiscuit]

60. To repeat the most apt response to the OP: IDIOTS!

[farmboxer]

61. Not matter what they do, they can't appease the scum

the corporate media will cheerlead for Repub fascists not matter what. It's time to stand up and fight for "We" who vote Democratic.