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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:07 PM
Original message
The Media's attack on Obama's "experience" is Racist
I'm particularly talking about the constant attacks on Obama's foreign policy experience. The media echo chamber constantly spins every damn thing Obama says regarding foreign policy as lacking in experience and reality. "Naive" has become the new Obama memo.

Take this for example:



Analysts say the Pakistan speech is in some ways Obama's response to the heat he took from the Democratic frontrunner following last week's debate. Hillary Clinton called the first term Senator "naive and irresponsible."

Stuart Rothenberg of Rothenberg Political Reports says Obama "can talk about policy, he can talk about foreign policy, but it still doesn't address the fundamental problem he has, which is lack of experience."


While I can honestly say that people like Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, and perhaps even Hillary Clinton have more foreign policy experience than Obama (in terms of years, not necessarily judgment), I wonder why people like Mitt Romney, Rudy Guiliani, and Fred Thompson get a pass. What have those three done in terms of foreign policy experience?

Romney is a one term governor from Massachusetts, Rudy the mayor of New York (who dealt with the 9/11 actions but knowns little about the actual Middle East), and of course Fred Thompson who was one of the less notable members in the Senate in terms of an actual, distinguished record. Their remarks on Iraq and the War on Terror have shown a true lack of knowledge and experience, especially in the Middle East, where they seem to believe Shiite/Persian Iran, Sunni Sulafist Al Qaeda, Wahhabi Sunnis, and Arab Socialist Saddam Hussein are all combined into a monolithic Islamic-Fascist threat, like some bastard child of Nazism, Communism, and the Boogey Man. To be fair, McCain is the only Republican candidate that on paper has more foreign policy experience than Obama but as we know...his judgment on Iraq has certainly undermined his credibility.

Obama on the other hand has a degree in international relations, he's been in the Senate engaged in foreign policy issues, he's a studious observer of history, and has perhaps the most personal knowledge of what Muslim society is truly like.

And while I believe Edwards is a serious candidate who certainly knows more than all the Republican candidates when it comes to foreign policy, I can't help but wonder why 2 or so years more in the Senate than Obama relegates him as that much more superior to these international issues.

Really, I don't like playing the race card, but I'm gonna just come out and say it. A black man is always judged differently.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. good luck with this one....nt.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sure... right.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Honestly, I don't think it's racist--it's just the only way they can attack him.
But as a "Hardball Homemade Campaign Ad" said about Obama last night, it's not about the quantity of experience, it's about the QUALITY of judgment--A-freakin'-men.
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LordJFT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. I agree, it's like the attack on edwards for his haircut
If you can't attack someone on on his principle/policy you have to find something else to get him for.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
rufus dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. It isn't race, it is party affiliation
Nothing more or less, purely a way to label a D.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
74. Exactly. The media meme is that Dems are inferior on foreign policy...
... (which is total BS, and has been shown to be so -- inarguably -- over the past 6 years) ... and the media attacks and exaggerates whatever angles they can come up with.

The general rule is that Republicans are above criticism, while the Democrats warrant it.
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'll be the contrarian and say you have a point
I think there is still a subtle racism and Obama may be getting some of that in the media.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. You are the one using scare quotes around experience
You imply that you do not consider it an appropriate use of the word. How is your subject line not also an attack?
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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. simple
I quoted experience because the media seems to have a very clear set notion on what real experience is - challenging Obama while giving Guiliani, Romney, and Thompson a pass.
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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. I agree that race has much to do with it
Black people have to have the twice the education and experience of a white person in order to be considered 'qualified' for a certain position, and it's no different when running for president.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I can empathize - in a way.
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 12:45 PM by ShortnFiery
Although my skin tone is European Olive-Drab Caucasian, I know what it's like to be viewed under a harsh microscope. During the mid to late 70s WOMEN were in the process of being totally integrated into the Army System, i.e., the liquidation of the Womens Army Corps (WACs). Although I was not Commissioned into the regular Army until 1980, I knew what it was like to be "singled out" a year earlier when I attended Airborne School as a Cadet.

Out of their expanded Company of 300, guess who was selected to be the first person to be latched up in the 250 foot tower? ... when arriving at the top, I was supposed to keep all composure and disconnect the safety cable before my parachute was released permitting me to float (drop like a rock - with standard Army Parachutes :P) down to the ground.

When Jump Week finally rolled around, guess who was selected to be "standing in the door" 4 out of 5 times before our stick (17 jumpers) was released to exit the airplane? :eyes: I was so scared when approaching the Sergeant Airborne at the open door of the aircraft ... frightened nearly out of my mind ... he grabbed me by the collar and pulled me to within 2 inches of his face and screamed, "Are You Scared!?!" I shook my head "yes" but after that moment I decided that I would not let my fear control me, i.e., let THEM (the men who resented women attending Airborne School) win.

I went on to serve four years on active duty until I was mercifully allowed to resign my Commission and return to Graduate School. The seemingly endless *testing of women* and other minorities continues in certain units within the Army. I would NOT ever wish for my daughter to have endured some of the horrid experiences that I was often faced with. Yet, as a woman officer, I had it good as compared to young enlisted women. Still, I would not ever wish for my daughter to ever join the military. That is a sad realization as my family has a long and honorable tradition of serving in the US Army.

I consider the above outlined sexist-oriented discrimination "little league" when compared to those who experience racism. My heart goes out to all minorities, because in a small way, I can understand the trials and tribulations of having to be twice as good in order to be minimally accepted. :shrug:

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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #8
65. AND SO DO "WOMEN!"
BO had better toughen-up, it's going to get a lot rougher!!
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. I do not think Rothenberg is being racist.
One can say Rothenberg is seeing the entire Campaign
through an elitist prism. He has been in the business
long enough to know that for last 25-30 years the
elites and the business community determine our Presidents.
This may color how he views any candidate--not just
Obama.

Rothernberg can be accurate when he says Dodd, Biden and
Clinton have the most experience. They were in the
Congress to help Regan start the shafting of the Middle
Class with Globalization and Free Trade all the way
through Nafta and to date. Their experience has made the
Elites and Corporations more and more wealthy while shafting
the Middle Class and Poor. Clinton was not there at the time
of Regan.

No matter how you slice it or dice it. They supported the
war . None of them had the courage to stand up and question
anything. Others did. Again they run with the elites.Esperience????

Do not get me wrong--I plan to vote for whomever the party
puts forward as a candidate.

People should not blindly vote and then be disappointed.

It is going to take time for real change.


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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. I agree
To be fair to Rothenberg I don't feel he is a racist, but I feel he is sadly parroting the media echo chamber on what real foreign policy experience is - and that Obama seems to be put to a different standard than everyone else. It's a subtle, institutional race issue. I cited him because this is one of countless articles that I read regarding the recent focus on Obama's experience, and I said enough is enough, time to set the record straight.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Even if you don't realize it, there's a very real undercurrent of racism that runs rampant ...
throughout this country. My best friend is married to an African American. She is fair skinned and naturally blonde. Words can NOT describe the "covert hints" of racism that constitute rumors around our neighborhood. Whenever any children are mis-behaving, the finger pointing is ALWAYS at her kids as the troublemakers. Why? The neighbors, whether they know it or not, are projecting their racism to the children. No child is an angel, but it's so damn apparent that "there's an undercurrent" there that screams *racism.* :(

That's why it's so difficult to detect either sexism or racism - because it takes on subtle, covert undertones. But both racism and sexism not only exists in the USA, it is "alive and well." :thumbsdown:

Therefore, I believe that "the zeal" with which the M$M is attacking Obama is ENHANCED by those who covertly harbor feelings of racism. There are no measures to capture - tease out - this phenomenon but it is STILL a valid consideration.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
66. You are right about
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 08:45 PM by laugle
rampant racism & sexism in the country. Also, that it is just more subtle and covert.

I too have a neighborhood story: when we first bought our home 15 years ago, our agent at the time was a latino and my best friend is also latino, my husband an I are white; a little girl (7yrs) came up to us and said; "oh gosh we thought the mexicans were moving in" I told my husband that kind of thing could have only come from her parents.

I have never forgotten that and this is what I would consider a progressive neighborhood!
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. You haven't demonstrated he is the victim of racism in terms of t he criticism...
Coming his way on foreign policy...

Your evidence is he is the only African American running and he is being criticized...

He is being criticized because IMO he made a rather stupid blunder in the last debate on a foreign policy question, and he made a foreign policy speech yesterday...

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rep the dems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. He's been criticized about his so called lack of experience since
before the last debate.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. The spark of racist "low expectations." nt
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Still doesn't demonstrate racism...
He is the least experienced of the top Democrats...

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. That's the point - it's subtle - and NO, he's not the least experienced.
What makes HRC more experienced? One more term in the Senate is ALL - because she can't put "married to the boss" on her foreign experience resume. :eyes:
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rep the dems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
70. I never said it did. But it also refutes the idea that his debate performance
is the reason the media is criticizing him.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hmm
Well I have to admit that I thought that Obama seemed kind of young for the job of president I have to confess that I thought he was more running for VP than president. But after careful thought I have to admit you are right. I don't think the media has treated him fairly at all in this regard. I do think that the republican candidates are being graded on a different curve as well.

I can't say that it is racism, but since I cannot refute it as a possible motivation I have to take it seriously.

Of course in my opinion many of the democratic candidates ahve not been given time or serious consideration. Biden has been given a disproportionate time and the Hillary love fest party never seems to end. And don't even get me started about the debates.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. I don't buy that. There's definitely a free pass for Republicans, but come on.
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 12:41 PM by jobycom
Obama has almost no national political experience, that's why he gets treated as inexperienced. His solution for that is to be sound like he has experience, or to draw on that personal experience you describe to prove his points.

Trying to label anyone "racist" who calls Obama inexperienced is just offensive. He is inexperienced. He's been in the senate three years. Half that time he's been running for president. Before that he was in state government, a professor, and a lawyer. That's a great beginning for a political career culminating in the presidency, but for many voters, it's not enough experience. If it is for you, fine. I wish it could be for me--there's a lot I love about Obama. Give him eight more years in the federal government, and he may be the best president we've ever had.

I'm not upset with the media for pointing that out. I'm upset with them for not pointing it out about Romney and Giuliani. And Bush. That's not racism, that's just their normal conservative bias.
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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. You speak some truth
but why then is the foreign policy experience or lack thereof of Guiliani, Romney, and Thompson not discussed? What international issues have they been involved in during the course of their career compared to Obama?
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. well, as I said in my post, that's the conservative bias of the media. Not even bias
It's more like the conservative activism of the media. My sig line use to say "Media: n. An advertising firm for the Republican Party."

It's not about race, it's about liberalism. The media convinces people that the more liberal a candidate sounds, the more naive they are on foreign policy. That way, the more conservative they sound, the more experienced they seem on foreign policy. It's why Kucinich and Gravel aren't taken seriously at all, and why Edwards is spiraling to their level. It's why Clinton, Obama, Richardson, and Biden try to sound rightie--so the media will give them a chance. (It's not that they are conservative, it's that they hide their views behind conservative langauge, the way JFK and LBJ.)

Obama is trying to stop his free fall, so he ignored the media and tried to speak to the left, and so he got labeled as "inexperienced." If he'd had more experience, he'd have gotten labeled either as "extremist" (like Kucinich and Gravel) or as "pandering to the left" (like Edwards, and occasionally Clinton). But Obama is inexperienced, so any perceived mistake he makes will got chalked up to that.

Not that I think this race has been immune from racism. The Republicans' first swiftboating attempt on Obama was to call him a radical Muslim. I think there was a racist motive behind that far beyond trying to link Obama to terrorism, since any simple investigation could prove that he was not Muslim. They were trying to change the way Americans perceived Obama. So far, he's a competent black guy who looks and sounds almost like a white person--you know, clean and articulate? (I'm not saying that about Obama, just saying that the media portrays him that way, and white people generally view him that way). The SBers want to turn Obama into a radical black man. Farakan, for instance. Or one of those black Muslims with the funny names (in the opinions of the target white, conservative audience). Farakan is a perfect image, actually. He, too, looks clean and is very articulate. Who better to mold Obama with his odd name into? That's the Muslim they hope to link Obama to, IMHO.
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
42. B/C they don't have a snowballs chance in Hell
of being elected...IMHO
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yeah, like Shrub had so much experience...
:eyes:

But calling this racist is too far-fetched. It's just what it is: spin, and parroting talking points.
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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Actually...
Bush highlights my point. Not only did the guy not know the difference between a Shiite and a Sunni, but he also confused Sweden with Switzerland. That's a documented incident. Yet he never caught slack. Obama however is very comprehensive to issues involving the Middle East yet his experience is always doubted. Why?
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Because he's a Democrat.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Not overt racism, perhaps, but the more subtle engrained
social racism of differing expectations - the kind of racism that is so easily seen by its victims but all but invisible to its usually clueless offenders.

For instance, I work p/t at a theater. There's a small group of black teens that occassionally cause problems, letting their friends in through the exits without buying tickets, being rowdy in the auditoriums. As a result, when white teens come in they don't get any notice, but a group of black teens come in and they get extra scrutiny, even followed around to make sure they're not up to something. All because of the actions of a half-dozen kids.

Differing expectations. And our black customers are very aware of it, you can be sure. It's engrained in the society.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. when you jump to conclusions on behalf of another candidate
the end-result is gratuitous snark whether you meant it or not -
a not too subtle manipulation
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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I disagree
Racism is not a word to throw around lightly but I do think it's a subconscious factor with regards to the issue over Obama's experience. As someone noted, I do think a black person especially in public service has to be twice as good, twice as honest, twice as experienced as everyone else. Look, I'm no fan of Al Sharp ton's tactics. I don't believe in making everything about race. But I think this is legitimate. I'm just really wondering why three major candidates (who are white) get such a pass.

For the record, I also think Senator Clinton faces similar issues in terms of her gender, ie. focusing on her wardrobe.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. well, Obama has as much foreign policy experience as Edwards
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 01:07 PM by AtomicKitten
... and I still think this particular criticism has nothing to do with race.

Obama will face issues of race behind the curtain in the voting booth when people who have the inclination will vote with prejudice in the comfort and cover of anonymity. And, you're right, same goes for Hillary with issues of gender.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. Edwards has at least 3x more
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 02:47 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
If you don't count his visits to foreign leaders since 2005...
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JANdad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
44. Ummm...have to throw in a correction on this one:
International Experience: In the Senate, Edwards served on the Select Committee on Intelligence. He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Edwards, along with former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Jack Kemp, chair a task force on U.S.-Russia relations. In the Fall of 2006, he visited Uganda with the International Rescue Committee.

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/2008presidentialrace/p/jedwards.htm

Barack:

International Experience: As a child, Obama lived four years in Jakarta, Indonesia. As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Obama has visited many spots around the world vital to U.S. interests including Russia, Kuwait, Iraq, and Israel among others. His most high profile trip was an August 2006 visit to Africa where he brought his family to his father's birthplace in Kenya.

http://usforeignpolicy.about.com/od/2008presidentialrace/p/bobama.htm
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. well, there's this
Obama is on the Foreign Relations Committee and chairs its European Affairs subcommittee.

Does that count too?
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
57. I tend to agree, unwillingly, because Edwards started running for President in 2003
And it's true that he missed a lot of time in the Senate during that time on the campaign trial.

But, this may have to do with a more subtle form of racism, suggesting that because Obama is black, he is not smart enough to work with foreign heads of state, since they have only dealt with caucasian Presidents of the United States in the past.

The suggestion being that even the caucasian Republican candidates would be better at foreign policy because they are caucasian, therefore (to their way of thinking) smarter.

From what I understand, Edwards didn't meet with many heads of state from foreign countries, but he is far smarter than any Republican candidate that has stepped up to the plate so far.

Any Democrat candidate is smarter than any Republican candidate, for that matter.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
67. As usual....you are right on the mark!
Hope all is well with you AK!
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe, but I think it has more to do with his young age and appearance.
He is the youngest candidate, is he not?
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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. I assume that this is you speaking, not Obama's campaign? Surely, he has better sense than to try t
this stuff. Again, I assume he really does want the nomination and knows better than to pull this garbage. Anybody that tries to pull the race card on his behalf is making a HUGE mistake, and not only is not doing him a favor, but coming as close as they can to seeing that he loses.

I'm a Hillary fan, but I certainly think Obama should have a fair chance at the nomination. Don't sabatoge him!
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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. a few things
First, when did I ever claim to speak for Obama? I'm a lowly poster on Democratic Underground just voicing my opinions.

Second, I already spoke to the issue of "the race card." I don't like making issues about race unless I see some constant patterns suggesting otherwise. You have a number of serious candidates in the race with less international experience than Obama and yet they get pass. I see a connection.

Third, I'm not saying the people voicing concerns about Obama's experience are racist, but I'm merely talking to the broader context in which racism exists in subtle, institutional ways.

Finally, I agree with Obama once said. Basically he stated that he wouldn't lose this campaign because of race but because he didn't properly sell his message to the American people. What I am saying is that we need to identify the double standards the media puts in place so that ordinary people can hear what Obama has to say without the notion in the back of their minds that he is naive and lacks foreign policy credentials. It's just not fair.

You folks need to understand that by not talking about matters of race doesn't automatically make society fair and equal.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
33. No, it isn't racism
Edwards got pummeled about experience in 2004. Since then, he was the VP nominee and has participated in many international summits and fact-finding trips. Obama is inexperienced in foreign policy, it's a fact. He can make up for inexperience with vision. Based on yesterday's speech, he's doing just fine in that department and should just keep focused and move ahead.

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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Really? How long have you owned that Crystal Ball?
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 01:39 PM by ShortnFiery
:eyes: You don't know for certain ... I had a deep, dark tan after training for the San Diego Half Marathon. I noticed that every time I drove up to L.A. in the next couple of months that I'd be stopped at a Border Checkpoint and asked "What Country are you from?" To which I wanted to reply, "Nebraska." :rofl: HOWEVER, my lily white, blonde haired husband can NOT relate to the frustration of being stopped and questioned as such. Therefore, when he's driving with me, he can't understand my ANGER when the border patrol chooses not to stop us in order to ask ME, "What Country are you from?"

My Point: Even the most seemingly enlightened people can NOT fully relate to *prejudice and discrimination* if they - THEMSELVES - have NOT personally experienced it. Although it's often covert, racism is thriving in the good ole USA.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. If the poster had said
I think one of the reasons the moderate women are going for Clinton is racism, I could have said, yeah I've heard that personally but didn't want to say anything. I've also heard it from some of the older white union Dem type men, they won't vote for a black man either. So I have heard it and I do think it's a problem.

But that isn't what the OP said. The OP said racism was the reason for the experience attacks and I expressed an opinion on that premise.

So you can take your bullshit and get the fuck off my ass. How 'bout that.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. And a good day to you too!
:hi: ;)
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. *
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Back at cha! Nice to see you again AK ... the voice of moderation. :-)
:hi:
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. I've been waiting for this one.n/t
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
36. The last time I checked Dan Quayle was white and he was called inexperienced
What did he do? Compare himself to a past great president and look like an idiot. ;)
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Oh please - trotting out an "Alfred E. Newman" example doesn't count. :-) nt
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Spearman87 Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
39. Well, today Joe Biden called him naive as well
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 01:46 PM by Spearman87
(NPR, Diane Rehm show, 10:00AM--11:00AM radio inteview)

And after his answer to the question on meeting with foriegn dictators with no preconditions, and now his statement on sending troops into Pakistan, I would say the shoe fits.

It may turn out to fit with Fred Thompson and others as well, but they haven't opened their mouths quite as much yet....
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Africa1 Donating Member (33 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. Not Racist
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 02:28 PM by Africa1
As a so called African American,and a disabled Viet Nam Vet,I dont believe this latest attack against Obama is racist.
The fact is,I dont think Obama is going to be in the best Interest of African Americans or even the majority of larger American.He called Hilary Clinton Repub Lite,when in reality,he and his policies are not much different.
I dont want to see either Obama,or Hilary as prez,in fact the only one running that qualifies from my point of view is Kunichic.
Obama needs to check himself,before he wrecks himself.
He will not get a free pass from me,so far I have been totally unimpressed with him,and his views so far.

Obama seems to be shaping up like a "Clarence Thomas lite."

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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
46. Man, that is a stretch
So pointing out his lack of experience is racist?
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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. See Post #32
Edited on Thu Aug-02-07 03:11 PM by Superman Returns
I'm talking about institutional racism within the media and the double stadard against Obama's experience compared to several other major candidates.
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Grandrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
50. Finally....the unspoken truth!
I bet many have thought it, including myself, but really hate to use the race card and get their brains beat in (especially by other African Americans). You have my gratitude for stating the obvious and suffering what will be bashing, gnashing of teeth, and reticule of an unimaginable degree!

People will approach the "race card" and say they are fearful that Americans are really not ready to elect a African American, but that is never considered using the race card! Therefore; Obama is "naive" or "inexperienced" or "need to wait" to obscure in fact, they fear that he is just as qualified and may actually win the nomination!

I sometimes think how wonderful it is that Sen. Obama and Michelle are willing to put themselves in the line of fire and then I reconsider and wonder if America is worth the trouble! The Bush/Cheney cabal will leave this country in a horrible mess and I pity what the next President will be confronted with, whoever wins!
:( :kick:
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
51. That's one of the reasons
Yes, the fact that he's black is a factor, but so is the fact that he's a progressive Democrat who has a real chance of taking out Hillary Clinton. All of those make a good target for the press.
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
52. All attacks on Obama are racism; all attacks on Clinton are sexism
I suppose attacks on Richardson are racism, too, right?

All those white male candidates oughta just throw in the towel and be decent chaps about it, I guess...
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
53. Most ignorant post of the month. Congrats. (nt)
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Like It Is Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
54. At least Obama gets media attention ! Quit complaining.
Every day I listen to Hillary, Obama or Obama, Edwards, or vice versa. At times I'll wait a week to hear a mention of Biden or Dodd. The smartest, most experienced people running. You're crying with a loaf of bread under your arm! You should be ashamed.
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
55. if you 'don't like playing the race card', then you shouldn't
the most empahtic criticism I've heard of Obama's experience is from an 80 year-old lifelong civil rights activist, African-American, who likes Obama very much, knows him well, and thinks he is in no position to run for president...for the reason that he just does not have enough experience.

When he announced, this man said to me: "What in the world does he think he's doing? He needs to learn how to be a Senator. He has so little experience, he doesn't know how little he knows."

Was he judging him differently because of his skin color?

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Superman Returns Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. no
but did he say the same about Edwards?
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. don't you remember that
everybody under the sun questioned Edwards experience. and he is white.

(and, for the record, had double the senate experience as Obama when he announced - four years vs two years)
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Is experience in DC the only experience that matters?
I don't think so. In fact, I view it as more of a negative. If you look at Obama's total experience outside DC (as a state Senator, as a community organizer, as a law school instructor), he matches up to just about anyone.
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venable Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. this has been debated quite a lot here
my opinion, if it matters, is that DC experience does matter, both serving in office and running for office...they are specific, complex experiences and they teach a man or a woman a great deal.

and for the record - don't mistake this for meaning that I have anything but disdain for DC culture... I loathe DC culture.

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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
58. NOT!! I Agree It Is More Difficult To Be African American... But Not
for Obama! Not from what has been reported about the hundred of thousands of supporters he has. Yes, I'm a white female, but don't have a racist bone in my body.... have many multi-cultural friends and my daughter has a young African American student living in her home, a friend of her son. His father was abusive to him and she and her husband took him in.

Plus, more and more I see inter-racial marriages and couples, nothing like it was when I grew up in Texas back in the late 60's! I remember Molly Ivins talking about this stuff back then and I SAW real discrimination too!
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
63. It's not racism- it's Republicanism.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. Right again!!! LOL
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
64. suuuuuuuuuuuure it is n/t
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-02-07 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
69. they have been trying to swiftboat Obama with inuendo and snide remarks.
they simply should not be allowed to interfer with our primaries but, they do and have an agenda in pushing Hillary down our throats. I really resent this.
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Like It Is Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. Who the hell is they? Let's be specific. n/t
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
71. rac·ism
Edited on Fri Aug-03-07 12:31 AM by guruoo

1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character
or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

http://www.answers.com/topic/racism?cat=health
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-03-07 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
73. Obama is black so he is held to higher standards
Edited on Fri Aug-03-07 01:23 AM by JI7
all you need to do is look to the monkey creature to see evidence of it. the monkey creature fucks up the language and it's seen as a positive thing. the monkey creature brags about getting low grades and being anti intellectual.

can you see any instance where Obama would be able to even just joke about how he got a bad grade as something positive ?
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