Proposal for a Democratic alliance

[WilliamPitt]

Saw this in the Globe article today regarding Grossman's plans:

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/02/16/chairman_set_to_leave_dean_camp/

Despite Dean's public protestations, he is clearly poised to ratchet back his campaign should he lose tomorrow, although he remains undecided about the best way to remain a political presence.

The former governor planned to speak with Kerry as soon as today to discuss their relationship, a top Democratic Party operative said on the condition of anonymity. And Neel is exploring converting Dean's presidential apparatus into a political action group like the one that attacked Dean before he lost Iowa's caucuses.

But in Dean's case, the group's purpose would not be to harm other Democratic candidates, but to help the party defeat President Bush, elect a Democratic Congress, and advance the agenda that the former Vermont governor has pushed during his two-year presidential campaign: health care for all Americans, a balanced budget, and foreign policies based on diplomatic cooperation.

Such groups are known as 527s, named for the section of the federal tax code that defines such entities. The groups are exempt from taxation so long as they are aimed at voter mobilization. They recently have come under review by the Federal Election Commission after protests that they are being used to advocate for specific candidates, in violation of a campaign finance law that took effect in November 2002.

...more...

Should John Kerry secure the nomination, it would be catastrophic to lose the dynamic energy of the Dean crew, the enlightened populism of the Edwards crew, the truth-telling power of the Sharpton crew, and the raw Democratic pulse of the Kucinich crew.

Just because there is one 'winner' does not mean there have to be 'losers' in this.

Do you want to keep fighting for what you believe in, what your candidate believes in, if Kerry gets the nod? I hope so.

Let's look into the 527 possibility.

[LuminousX]

1. I am seriously hoping he does this

This is the best way for the Dean Machine to continue beyond this one election as well as the spin offs such as the volunteer efforts that Dean supportors have been doing through the campaign season - helping voters of all political stripes who are in need.

The only real way for Dean to pull a "win" out of this election is to set his sights on a goal that is broader in nature than getting elected to the White House.

[burned]

2. Will

I for one will be happy to discuss this at length after the primary is over.

[WilliamPitt]

4. It's a date, then

[burned]

6. Fine then :)

[onehandle]

3. Amen!

We need their grassroots power. Dean and his folks can be heroes if they use their resources to help topple the chimp. Then they will have a well deserved right to help shape policy.

[WilliamPitt]

5. They're already heroes

If we can do this, we will all get to share in that.

[Ninga]

9. I volunteer my "gray hair" for this effort.

I want to carefully read, and understand the mission and focus of such an movement and/or organization.


If it even comes close to a DLC wannabe, then it will not speak for me.

[burned]

7. Hey now

The fact that he and we are still standing and coming in second most places after being divebombed by the press for a month is hero material enough and gives us a right to help shape policy.

[corporatewhore]

8. Grossman was one of the reasons ididnt like dean -AIPAC it just makes it

more clear that the same old sameold will go on

[MaineDem]

10. It would be a tragedy to lose the enthusiasm of so many

The resounding theme discussed at all the caucuses locally here was the need to get rid of Bush. It brought people out in droves. Dean's campaign has done that; Edwards' campaign has done that; Kucinich's and Sharpton's campaigns have done that; Clark's, Lieberman's and Mosely-Braun's campaigns have done that as has Kerry's. We (Capital D Democrats) can't afford to lose this enthusiasm, willingness, passion, and dedication.

The House and Senate candidates need this enthusiasm as much as the top of the ticket. I welcome this effort.

[Lisa0825]

11. Several of my fellow Dean volunteers in the Houston-Galveston area

have expressed a strong desire to continue to make an impact in some way no matter how the nomination goes. I would definitely stay involved in any effort that grows out of the Dean campaign.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. You make no mention

Of the Clark crrew. Do you consider us already lost?

[MaineDem]

14. Yikes!

I typed in Clark and changed the sentence and forgot to add it back in. Mistake on my part. I'm sorry.

(If that wasn't directed at me, I still apologize.)

[WilliamPitt]

21. Certainly not

and I apologize for the omission.

[SEAburb]

34. We've been kick to the curb already

Just what I was afraid of. My bitterness only grows.

[mrgorth]

13. My only concern with this

and it is a good idea, is, how could such a group compete with the corporate funded DLC? As we've already seen this year, when scumbags like Torrecelli have 10s of thousands of dollars to throw around it can easily nullify the work of 100s of grassrootsers.

[Robb]

23. Indeed

...Didn't we hate 527's like a week ago?

[NashVegas]

15. I'm More Interested in What Trippi's Up To Than Neel

At this point, anyway. Trippi has a tremendous grasp on what moves the group that attached itself to Howard Dean, although frankly, I have serious questions as to whether any of them — Dean included — truly, intrinsically understands why this group chose Dean.

I don't think the core of this group will want to have anything to do with that part of the party that set out to derail Dean's candidacy from the outset.

[ibegurpard]

16. A number of Dean supporters are already working on such efforts.

They will be independent of the Democratic Party, however. Many of us will not put our efforts and our money into such an endeavor if it is seen as nothing but populist window dressing for the DLC-inspired politics of expediency. I, for one, will be more than happy to work toward the goal of making government more accountable to people than to corporate and big-money donors. Since I see the Party and a Kerry candidacy as working against this goal then there is no way I can support them. If Howard Dean chooses to throw in with the Party at this time, particulary since they have worked so hard to squash a candidacy that WAS driven by individuals and small donors, then that is where we will part ways.

[ibegurpard]

19. The following thread is the best example

of why I can no longer put any effort into supporting the Democratic Party:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=336677&mesg_id=336677

[Padraig18]

17. I hope the campaign does this.

We have an EXCELLENT Democratic candidate for Congress here (IL-15) who also happens to be a big Dean fan, and it would rock to see the campaign help Dr. Gill become our new congressman. He could use the help, frankly. :)

[farmbo]

18. MoveOn.org and ACT are already recruiting Dean leaders in my state

But the prospect of an omnibus, nationwide Dem/Progressive 527 is most intriguing.

[dave29]

20. This will be great

until the Republican congress, or DLC backed Dem's outlaws 527's

:shrug:

[TeacherCreature]

22. grossman is a liar

He is just performing his first job for Kerry and trying to take Dean down. Grossman is the source of all the rumors about dropping out and Neel today said grossman was a "free agent".

PS.... I heard Kerry refered to as the former favorite for nomination.

[janx]

25. Do you have links for any of this?

Pleeease?

[madfloridian]

24. The problem is not what Dean may do.

The problem is that many of his supporters are dumbfounded at the push to get him out *now*, yet the others are not getting the full treatment. Hard to figure why, as the rumor problem is looming with the one who is the presumptive nominee.
True or not, it is there.

Many are calling and writing to hold their donations, not really knowing if it can be done. Right or wrong, it is the reality.

The high pressure tactics by the party and the media, the way they have attributed such cult-like qualities to Dean supporters, and now Grossman's nice little play, have caused a lot to just say whoa! here,...what is going on?

Many need time to think, and they are not being given that time. The phones were buzzing at HQs yesterday, and the campers are not happy.

So much of the support for Dean is from other groups...one of our most active members is a Republican. Several are independent, and a couple of others who take part are Republican also.

This is about our Democracy, it is about the fact that the majority of his supporters are alert to the rush to hush us now. You can deny it and say we are whiners or martyrs, but the reality is that the time is not being given....in spite of a looming controversy.

It is not going to be easy to get the votes of Dean supporters, just because the people who support him do NOT give him their first loyalty.....they give *truth* their first loyalty. He is the only candidate who has consistently provided that, and it is in short supply elsewhere.

The campaign stresses to all to support the nominee, but it does not seem to be working.

That WP article referred to in this thread just shows that the comfort level of complacency is back already, just at the thought of his dropping out.

FYI, my husband and I have not decided yet what we will do. That is our decision to make within ourselves after taking time to weigh it all.

[mzmolly]

26. Very well said MF. I can honestly say that I dont know what I will do

either. I have never thought I'd say that but I too need time and space. I am in mourning, a death has occured, and the relatives are already dividing up the property for cripes sakes!

It's wrong.

You nailed it here:

"It is not going to be easy to get the votes of Dean supporters, just because the people who support him do NOT give him their first loyalty.....they give *truth* their first loyalty. He is the only candidate who has consistently provided that, and it is in short supply elsewhere."

Dean must tread gently and respect all of his supporters...I respect his decision to support Mr. Kerry if he likes, but he has many Independent supporters *and as you pointed out* Republican supporters who desire change.

I am still hoping for a Dean win, some how some way. It's the only scenario I am fully comfortable with...

:hi:

[madfloridian]

31. The rush is puzzling, is it not? Only posts about Dean dropping out.

I don't see posts about when is Sharpton dropping out. Or when is Kucinich dropping out, or when is Edwards dropping out. Do you?

I only see posts about Dean dropping out. Not the others. Why?

[mzmolly]

32. Why... Because Dean still scares *them* MF.

Good point and well taken. :hi:

[SEAburb]

39. delete

pointless post

[goobergunch]

40. Got a link to back that up? (n/t)

[SEAburb]

44. Sorry, I've been trying not to stick it to you guys

since IA. That one slipped past me.

[janx]

27. Check this out:

"If Howard loses the Wisconsin primary on Tuesday night, I will either reach out to the Kerry organization, they will reach out to me, or there will be a simultaneous outreach effort by both sides. And I will make a public commitment to do anything and everything I can to help John Kerry become the next president of the United States, including, but not limited to, building bridges between the two organizations so John Kerry can benefit from the strength of the Dean organization," Grossman, a former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, said in a telephone interview from Stowe, Vt., where he was skiing with his family.


HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Donkey007]

28. "Democrats are disillusioned," Mr. Dinkins

He makes up an excuse to get out of class to tell me how the democrats are failing.

[bobthedrummer]

29. I would think that an alliance like that is, logically, part of ABB.

I'm voting for Dennis Kucinich tomorrow here in Wisconsin and then the Democratic nominee in November.
I'm an independent voter and this year I'm a solid ABB voter.


BTW, I think Dennis is going to do well here tomorrow. He'll get some delegates...
:hi:

[Crewleader]

30. Wouldn't it be something, all candidates are so united, that

everyone of them will be working with the nominee in his administration,to make a strong awesome Democratic Party. All candidates will be bringing people together like it's never been before because that's what it will take to beat Bush!

Each candidate attracts the numbers needed to win,and each knows when it's their time to give their support to the front-runner like my candidate Clark did. His abilities and talents he'll use to make sure he continues to speak out for the good of the country and not let Bush use National Security had a political gain.

Like the remaining candidates will do too,to contribute themselves with their support making the Democratic Party so United like it needs to be and I think Dean will do the right thing in making that become reality if he does not start to win.

I was angry, saddened about Clark dropping out but soon enough I see the big picture...like most of the candidates themselves have said, while they all were seen on the debates...anyone one of them is better then Bush,that's how they truly feel about each other and when Sharpton said, even in their worse nightmare sleep is better then Bush. They really all feel strong about who the real enemy is not at each other and I just hope all their supporters (crew) can see it too.

The DU Crew will come together and the Democratic Party
will be more United thenever and we the people will win in Nov. 2004! :-)

[LWolf]

49. Good response, Crew.

I'm with Dennis all the way to the convention. I don't want or expect him to drop out. But I also know, given the man he is, he will work just has hard for the nominee as he has for his own campaign...no matter which of the current crop of candidates it happens to be.

[Justitia]

33. Here is why I think this is crap:

"The former governor planned to speak with Kerry as soon as today to discuss their relationship, a top Democratic Party operative said on the condition of anonymity."

Operatives??? On condition of anonymity????

Propoganda, meant to demoralize and dissuade.

[goobergunch]

35. I'll be happy to keep fighting

for progressive candidates across the country.

Sadly, it looks like I'll be focusing on downballot races this year.

[The Magistrate]

36. This Is An Excellent Idea, Mr. Pitt

Let us hope it comes to fruition.

Such an organization, independent of the nominee, and to his left, but squarely aimed at the criminals of the '00 Coup, would be invaluable.

An organization like this could make charges and float lines of attack that would be problematic for a mainstream politico to essay, and press them into the popular mind to good effect. It would extend the left flank, so to speak, and this is essential to moving the perceived center leftwards.

It does strike me as important to find a new vocabulary on the left. Many people actually hold views that are decidedly leftist, but express these differently than radicals are accustomed to speak, and angrily reject the forms of address radicals are wont to use. You may forgive me for suggesting, Sir, someone with your skill in vernacular speech could make an invaluable contribution in this direction. An old Tory like myself can only point to the problem, but can no more approach its solution than a signpost can make the journey it directs....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Donna Zen]

50. It sounds as if we are on the same page.

check your pm

[Atlant]

37. Your post seems to assume that the "Dean Crew" are Democrats.

I've found them to be all over the political spectrum including
Democrats, Greens (lots of Greens!), Republicans, Libertarians,
Socialists, etc.

Many of these folks were interested in Dr. Dean and the ideas he
espoused, but aren't especially interested in helping an unreformed
Democratic Party.

I'm certainly not (and *I'M* a Democrat!)

Atlant

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

45. I'm a Democrat

But come March 17th, I'll be an independent.

2004 has soured me on the Democratic Party. Kerry will probably get my vote, but afterwards, I'll be a very loud critic.

[jonnyblitz]

47. I have been a DEM for about 3 months

and will disenroll from the party after I vote in the CT primary on March 2.

[stickdog]

38. Grossman's plans: Lobby for a job with Kerry by stabbing Dean in the back!

Sound familiar?

[janx]

41. This is Grossman talking, not the Dean campaign.

Grossman has bailed.

[WilliamPitt]

48. Sound familiar to whom?

[madfloridian]

43. These groups have already been formed.

These groups were already formed and working with candidates. I would wait to hear from Dean exactly what he will do.

The issue left is what Dean supporters will do since everyone has decided Dean is done, stick a fork in him.

That is the issue, and that is a decision that is left up to each individual.

Dean again just announced he is not dropping out. It is a just not time for this death notice stuff. This is not idealism, this is realism.

Too many fat ladies are singing already.

[Donna Zen]

46. Outside the box

Lessons learned:

1. No matter whose campaign you supported: we do have power

2. There is a information-lag between what is going on out here,
and what the Democratic party thinks is going on.

3. The internet can be democracy's friend

4. We are not there yet.

_______

1. Thousands of us came to together in various camps with the hope on achieving change within our country while working through the existing system. IMHO, the next set of moves need to include the question: why. What did we hope to achieve? Various candidates had various messages; however, those messages clearly overlapped. Yes, even Joe's message contained a very good healthcare proposal. That said, we have learned that collectively we are far stronger than we are as individuals, and we have agreed upon goals. Now is the time to focus that power. I would suggest that calls for goal setting both philosophically and logistically.

2. The Democratic party has caught on very well to the concept that we are "out." here; the problem is they see us as a cash-cow rather than people-individuals--who have demands, are not satisfied with the status quo, and who feel that the government on both sides of the aisle is no longer working in the American people's best interest. Again, we must define ourselves and our interests, because they are not going to do it for us. If we are unable to do so, then we should expect to be invited to participate in an astro-turf movement where the goals that we wish to achieve remain nebulous and the rewards for collective actions benefit the few. If we want to change the status quo, then organizing as a force outside the system but willing to work on the system's behalf when the party or factions within the party are willing to champion our cause(s), needs to be realized.

One example: It is vital to a democracy to have an informed citizenery and constructive, open dialogue. (I hope that you agree, so I'll assume you do.) Currently, the media with the help of both parties is moving us away from that bedrock ideal through infotainment and mergers. As we all know, sometimes they just "make shit up." A simple move such as demanding that media spend time on the issues rather than the "horse-race" during any campaign does not require much lobbying power but it does demand a "voice." A unified Democratic party voice. OTOH, stopping and reversing the current course of media mergers, while difficult, is also necessary, and can be achieved if we force the issue and frame it as a "democratic" ideal. On this issue we will find support in surprizing places.

3. The internet, which often publishes pure-crap, can be used as an organizing tool. We can: eblock, form writer's groups, raise money, lobby etc. If we are under an umbrella organized by an individual(s) then we may become driven by an agenda rather than our goals. Therefore, it is apparent to me that we need to take several actions: One, we need to define an agreed upon set of goals (#1). Two, we need to organize outside of the party, although not necessarily in conflict with the party, to create a "grassroots" identity that can be offered up when the powers that be are in agreement with our goals. And finally, as a body of individuals decide what it is we can do, and are willing to do through this mighty tool. Florynce Kennedy once said: "I know we're termites. But if all the termites got together, the house would fall down."

I think we would be wise to both attend to Ms. Kennedy's notion, and to avoid entering the "termite hotel."

4. We have caught the attention of the Democratic party; however, in the end, I would suggest that while attention is a good thing, it was not our goal. We came together orginally because of a stolen election and now we face BBV. How many people in the party are actually listening to us? How many people in the party care what we think? How many people in the party consider us "kooks?" How many people in the party would offer us Trojan Horses vs take action our behalf?

No my friends, we are not there yet. So the question now is "how do we get there?" I would suggest: #1, #2, #3. From observing the comments like Will's current thread, this one, many of us are circling the issue of continuing and creating more effective grassroots cyber politics. I invite anyone to add to, subtract from, and hammer out proposals such as mine. I believe we are on to something; I believe it is critical that we develop into an effective force for change; I believe there are great minds in this and other forums ready with the skills waiting to do this. And most of all, I believe if we fail to do this, we will lose our democracy. I am here to help in an effort to change that course of events.

If we dream individually, our dream remains a dream. If we dream in critical mass, our dream becomes reality.