Rove subpoenaed. Special Prosecutor requested. Criminal charges. But will anything *really* happen?

[Stinky The Clown]

First off, this post is NOT in any way, shape, or form a dissing of our guys. It is about the way the system can be worked .... and will be worked ..... by the cabal of thugs who have wrested control of our country from We the People.

So ..... Leahy plays "The Time Is Right" and says "Karl Rove, come on down!"

Conyers is moving to call for actual, no shit criminal charges.

The smarter Dems in the Senate are asking for a special prosecutor.

Bolton and Miers have dates with process servers.

Gonzo clearly lied under oath.

But my question is .... will this lead to anything actually happening? Will heads roll? Will courts hear? Will juries, jury? Will judges get to sentence?

Will the Congress hold an impeachment trial?

I am sad to say, but I don't think so. I think the clock will run out and all this will be so much fodder for the more arcane pages of much-too-detailed history books.

I SO wish to be proved wrong.

[ananda]

1. Right now it's all talk and no show.

That's what it's been for years.

So.. you're very likely right.. sad to say.

[rodeodance]

2. the aspen leaves are starting to turn.

[Captain Hilts]

9. ...they're connected at the roots....nt

[NMDemDist2]

3. it's putting the heat on the WH

which will make it pretty dangerous around the world I fear.

and they (the WH) may be able to play out the clock, but it's gonna help no matter what happens. Even if they go to court the damage will be done as the allegations are laid out.

Once the truth starts coming out the people will be watching. You remember Watergate, it was drip drip drip until it finally exploded, seemingly 'overnight'

Fasten your seatbelt Stinky :hi:

[damntexdem]

10. Or Blackwater turns up at your house in the middle of the night.

You win a free trip to the Barbed-Wire Desert Resort. Would the Bushistas pull something to stop it all? Well, they're the type of drips that might so respond to the drip, drip, drip.

[grasswire]

4. Is this like Lucy and the football?

Will she? Won't she?

[paparush]

5. zzzz Bush-Executive Privilege zzzzzz Move Along. . . zzzzz Lindsay Lohan

[mother earth]

6. Ok, maybe this is a stupid question, but if the clock runs out,

which translates there's no need to impeach, wouldn't criminal charges and charges of treason be applied and the due course of the law could go forward and maybe we'd see prison terms? Am I wrong to be hopeful that the bums could actually serve time?

[Stinky The Clown]

11. I see that as even less likely ......

.... what with the courtly, genteel way in which we treat our past presidents.

Any 08 hopeful would get my UNDYING support if (s)he would only promise to investigate these matters and follow it to conclusion. That would be the promise to swear out a special prosecutor with the power to get the facts and bring them to court.

[mother earth]

13. They'd get my undying support too. I feel like we've told them

in no uncertain terms that we want accountability.

[Captain Hilts]

12. No, the clock does not run out on impeachment.

Though if that person is no longer in office, the issues aren't as pressing, but the constitutional ones remain, so the process continues.

[mother earth]

15. Meaning possible prison sentences? Once you are out of office

that could be possible, no?

[onenote]

24. whether it legally runs out or not, as a practical matter it runs out.

The issue of whether impeachment survives the departure of an office holder from office is not fully settled. In the 1870s, Judge Belknap resigned from the bench before COngress had approved articles of impeachment. There was considerable sentiment that he had resigned to "evade" impeachment and Congress therefore went ahead and impeached him. WHen the matter came before the Senate for trial, the issue of whether Belknap could be impeached even though he was no longer an officer of the government was considered and voted upon, passing by a 37-29 margin. The vote on conviction was 37-25 -- short of the 2/3 vote necessary and thus he was acquitted. Most of those voting against conviction indicated that they did not agree that the Senate had jurisdiction to try someone for impeachment after they'd left office. The fact that there were a sufficient number of Senators who felt that there could be no impeachment after Belknap retired meant that, for all intents and purposes, the vote finding that the Senate had jurisdiction was meaningless.

In any event, if chimpy were to complete his term of office, the case for impeaching him would be even weaker than the Belknap precedent. This is because (1) the argument couldn't be made that he left office to "evade" impeachment and (2) there is the subsequent precedent of Nixon being allowed to resign and not face further impeachment proceedings even though the House Judiciary already had approved articles and, following the revelation of the smoking gun, even the repubs on the committee who had voted against the articles changed their position and publicly announced that they supported impeachment.

The bottom line -- there will be no attempt to impeach chimpy, cheney, or anyone else after they leave office.

[Totally Committed]

7. No.

Ultimately, I think this entire administration will leave office without being held accountable for their crimes.

TC

[tridim]

8. I think the good guys are committed

There's no turning back now.

[sueh]

29. I agree.

The House and Senate Commitees have been holding investigation hearings since the Dems took over. I do sincerely hope their work is not in vain.

[onenote]

14. what will happen is that congressional repubs will be increasingly on the spot

as they face whether to defend and excuse chimpy's recalcitrance and the incompetence and corruption of his administration. Congressional repubs are being put between a rock and a hard place. If they continue to support the administration's stonewalling, they alienate a growing number of voters -- including voters that may have swung in their direction in the past but are increasingly fed up. On the other hand, if they turn on the administration, they alienate their base. They are, to use a phrase from another time -- twisting in the wind.

While it would be immensely satisfying to see justice meted out on these folks, from chimpy to cheney to gonzo and rove etc, even if that doesn't happen I think there is a good chance that the repubs will be going down in flames in big numbers a year from November.

[emulatorloo]

16. good answer n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

20. I'm thinking the same thing ....... but .....

..... I guess I'm a guy who places some value on honor and accountability (**not** saying you aren't).

I **really** want to see these guys punished and brought to task for what they've done.

I once favored Ford's pardon of Nixon. I later changed that view as it led to what we have today. Lawless presidents who have no fear of being held accountable. I see no choice but to follow up on crimes committed in the Executive.

[Virginia Dare]

28. No seemingly good answers for the Repubbies right now..

and whatever happens, that can only be a good thing.

[dflprincess]

17. I'd believe they were serious about doing something if the August recess was

delayed or canceled.

[emulatorloo]

18. Maybe. Who knows, time will tell. In the meantime CALL YOUR REPUBLICAN REPS AND SENATORS

and pressure them to stand up w the Democrats and do the right thing, rather than protect BUSHCO.

[Perry Logan]

19. The thread so far reveals a marked reluctance to give credit where it's due.

Twenty years of right-tinged media have given most of us self-esteem problems. If we were Republics, we'd be strutting and crowing right now.

Not that we're supposed to use Republics as our model, of course. But their approach would be more gratifying at this point.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Drive by posts are hardly useful

You made a statement. Expand on it so everyone reading it has a clear understanding of what it is you're saying.

[Stinky The Clown]

25. I'm **still** curious ......

What credit is due that is not being given?

[Totally Committed]

33. This oughtta be good....

*pulling up a chair*

:popcorn:

TC

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. Rove under oath

This I have to see

[MGKrebs]

23. Don't know. The bad guys have tried to rig the system.

Time will tell if they have succeeded. Perhaps the most we can expect is to get the Supremes in a difficult enough situation so that they HAVE to come down on the side of the Constitution.

I don't mean to say that we can't HOPE for more, but there can be no doubt that the Boy King has broken the system (intentionally) and it will have to be fixed before it can be used as it was intended.

Note: The Chief Justice presides over impeachment trials.

[Imagevision]

26. Good question, the Dems are very low in ratings, congress will have

to decide whether to issue contempt citations for Rove which I don't think the Dems will accept another ala~Miers no-show event. Iraq heavies are going on vacation and the DC. players are going on vacation because it is getting a wee-bit hot also. Bush is going on vacation, September should really be if nothing else, entertaining.

[tridim]

37. Last I heard the Dems' approval numbers were on the rise. nt

[MGKrebs]

44. Dems will have to convince voters that, to the extent not as much is

getting done as possible, it's the Republican obstructionists fault, and the fact that the Dems are being diligent in rooting out the corruption.

[Virginia Dare]

27. I think they will do everything in their power to see justice through..

only time will tell whether they will be successful or not. One thing that has me a bit optimistic is how seemingly stupid Gonzo is. Maybe he's actually very smart and is just pretending to be stupid, but if that's the case, he's a great actor. Same with Harriet Miers.

I think what is happening now is what I've been predicting for some time and that is exactly what brought Nixon down: arrogance.

When you've been on top for so long, when you've gotten your way for so long, you get cock-sure and sloppy. It's obvious that Bush stopped caring about much of anything a long time ago, he doesn't exactly strike me as the kind of guy who commands the type loyalty to compel somebody to go to jail for him, and Rove has been distracted by trying to keep his ass out of jail. Then of course there is the Scooter commutation/impending pardon which complicates things for them further.

The bottom line is, I think eventually the clock will run out on THEM. At least, I HOPE so, but unfortunately my crystal ball is broken right now.

[Jackpine Radical]

30. Bush never did care about anything. Not in the sense that you mean.

He is a narcissistic psychopath. His only concern is himself.

[Virginia Dare]

38. True..

which is why I'd be surprised if all of this fort building around him will hold up. I anticipate a mass jumping of ship soon. If Rove falls, that's it, game over.

Cheney saw the writing on the wall, he had the shredder trucks backed up to the garage months ago. I'm sure he's adequately covered his butt, Bush probably will depend on Poppy to get him out of this mess.

[Demeter]

31. I Would Have Said NO, Until The Market Tanked

I think that will shake up and out the last 22% clinging to the dead aspen tree that is BushCheneyCo!

[Virginia Dare]

39. When Wall Street decides it's time for shrubby to go..

that will be it for sure.

[Enrique]

32. Doris Day said it best

the future's not ours to see.

Neither Bush nor the dems know how this will turn out either.

[bvar22]

34. Too many Democrats are invested in "Running Out the Clock".

I would love to hear some Democratic Candidates pledge to "Uphold The Law" and pursue criminal investigations and prosecutions where indicated AFTER 2008, but there are too many who would LOVE to see a Corporate Owned Democrat in control of the Unitary Executive. The DLC helped build the Unitary Executive, and now they have a Corporate Owned puppet who is leading the Democratic polls.
The LAST thing these people want is someone rocking the boat. Impeachment and Prosecutions could be messy, and people might DEMAND that the system be FIXED.

Much safer to run out the clock and then let a CorpoDemocrat inherit the Unitary Executive. In Fact, it is already too late for very much to happen. The Democrats have already burned 7 months, and excuses of "too close to campaign season" are starting to be heard.

The BIG MONEY PTB that own our government have already rigged 2008. They have their nice safe PRO-WAR/Free Trader/For Profit HealthCare puppet leading the polls. There will be no messy Impeachments or Criminal charges that may mess up their game plan.

In 2008, a Pro-Iraq Occupation/Free Trader/ For Profit HealthCare president WILL BE ELECTED.
This President WILL close ranks with the Republicans "in a Spirit of National Healing" :puke:
The rich, white Republican criminals will get off scott free and will keep their ill gotten loot.

History IS the teacher! (See Clinton, 1992-Iran Contra)

[here_is_to_hope]

35. No. n/t

[Independent_Liberal]

36. Well, remember Watergate? Nobody seemed to think anything would come of it.

And then, kapowee, the deck of cards came apart. Never say never.

[Virginia Dare]

40. Rove is the key..

if they can get him or somebody close to him to flip, that's probably going to be like the spark to a keg of dynamite. Are the Aspens turning yet?

[tridim]

41. Rove will never flip, but he may flip out

and start speaking in tongues or something. Either way is fine.

I do agree that Rove is a key target. Bush will be lost without him.

[eppur_se_muova]

42. I'm forced to be offline for several days ... this GUARANTEES something big will happen! nt

:D

[BootinUp]

43. If all it leads to is

a bigger victory for us in '08, I would probably accept that... grudgingly. I really want to see Gonzo gone before the end of Bush's term though because he is simply the worst AG of all time and there is more damage he will do if allowed to continue.