Let's stop bashing ANY of our candidates!!

[RBInMaine]

Let's kindly stop bashing ANY of our Presidential candidates! When will Democrats ever stop the silly infighting which only helps the Repugs? Whomever is nominated, he or SHE will be a godsend compared to the tyranny we've had under Bush. When the nomination is decided, we better all be together this time and make sure that our nominee wins the White House. Train the fire on Bush and R's where it damn well belongs, PLEASE!! (It is fine to discuss some honest differences between candidates and talk about whom you support. But remember they ALL have their strengths and weaknesses. What I am talking about is BASHING a candidate , and too much of that is happening! Train the fire on the R's and stop helping them!) Thanks.

[ixion]

1. when Clinton was elected, he moved forward with the so-called WoD, rathter

than backing out of that horrible crap implemented under Ray-Gun. I want change, not status quo.

[RBInMaine]

6. Compared to Bush, ANY Dem will be one hell of a change!

Compared to the horridness under Bush and the Neocons, Hillary or ANY of the D's would be a STARK change and if I had ten hours I'd give you a list a mile long as to how and why. For god's sake, STOP HELPING THE R's bash OUR people!! This rotten crap needs to stop! When R's set up a firing squad they stand in a straight line. Why in all hell do so many D's/Progressives insist on standing in a circle?? Stop it!

[ixion]

20. Hillary is a neocon, IMO

and quite frankly, I see very little difference between the (D)'s and the (R)'s, with only a handful of exceptions, i.e. Dennis Kucinich, whom I do support.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

2. I've not bashed a single one......

I DID, however, say that Senator Clinton will lose because of this country's backwardness, sexism, redneckishness, lack of education, etc. I don't want Senator Clinton to run.

[antiimperialist]

3. Criticism does not equal bashing

Criticism is good. We need to let our Democratic candidates know what we expect from them. Once a candidate has been chosen, we can stop criticizing.

[RBInMaine]

7. As I said, fine have a debate, but yes, it has been "bashing".

Fine, have an fair and CIVIL debate. I'm all for it and will participate. Even a spirited But when I see people calling ANY Dem candidate things such as "awful," "terrible,"
"never in a million years," "evil,"... that indeed is senseless bashing and only helps the Rethug cause. There is no need of it no matter what the format is. (In fact, I believe that the thrust of this site's rules tell us to support Democrats and Progressive causes, not bash them.) This is a Democratic/Progressive site. Let's discuss the issues and even have some level of honest disagreements. But is can be done without vicious infighting and bashing our own people. I for one support Edwards now but see great things in ALL of our candidates and will strongly support WHOMEVER is the eventual nominee, as anyone who professes to be a Democrat or wants change post-Bush should. Thanks!

[AtomicKitten]

4. lovely sentiment, really

It just doesn't translate to politics and message boards.

It's the anonymity, you know, that kicks up the ugly a notch.

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. To be completely truthful, the bashing I see here is 99% bashing

of posters who bring up valid objections and honest differences with one or anothers' favorite candidate.

Mostly on the part of one particular candidate. Cuz all us damn leftists are just out to ruin the country/hand the election to the republicans.

[Colobo]

8. I root for my candidate. That's more powerful than bashing.

[defendandprotect]

9. I don't see any "bashing" of candidates; unless you mean that they shouldn't be challenged --??????

I do think we are prematurely "bashing" Pelosi and Conyers over impeachment.

While I'm not happy with the inaction ....

I'm not ready yet to brand either of them "evil" --


The EVIL is in the White House -- and we should stay focused on that -- and getting rid of these people.

I'm concerned about the investigations going forward --
and I don't like the idea of a summer recess of Congress -- !!!

I think this gives Cheney/Bush . . . and maybe members of the SC too much time to plan and conspire on Executive Privilege/National Security claims --
and subpeonas, whatever.

The Dems should keep the pressure on ----

[RBInMaine]

11. Challenge, questions, etc. fine. Bash? No!

I don't want to get into an argument over sematics. When people are posting things like "Anyone but Hillary. Who's onboard?" then THAT IS abject candidate bashing, no ifs, ands, or buts. It is outright slamming one of our candidates and actively advocating her defeat. If that isn't bashing I don't know what is. Have some disagreements, ask questions, take to task civily on an issue, but don't work to outright line people up to write her off. The Rethugs are already trying to do that. They don't need our help. (And this is coming from someone who's first choice is Edwards.) TRAIN THE REAL FIRE ON THE R's! At the end of the day, SUPPORT the Dem nominee who WILL be a stark difference and a hell of an improvement over the shameful excuse for a President that we have now! Thanks again!

[Like It Is]

10. Why?

If they can't take it here, what's going to happen when the Repugs get a hold of them?

[RBInMaine]

13. You miss the point!

For goodness sake, please try to understand the point. This is a DEMOCRATIC site which asks us to support Democrats. They shouldn't have to "take it" here. (Bashing that is.) Fine to discuss differences. Fine to talk policy points. Fine to say who you favor in the primary in a POSITIVE way without slamming the others. But we are not here to BASH our own people. We don't need to "give it" to our candidates here because the R's are already doing that. Be a DEMOCRAT for Christ sake! Again, it doesn't mean people can't have some honest discussions and disagreements vetted in a civil way, but at the end of the day get behind the D nominee and let's bash Bush and the R's and not our own people! This is certainly the intent of site's guidelines and I know Skinner and others running the site have reminded participants NOT to bash Dem candidates in these primary election discussions. And by the way, why not say some POSITIVE things about the other Dem candidates that one of us may not want to vote for. I'll give you an example: "I won't vote for Kucinich in the primary, but I do like a number of his positions, he is very principled, and I think he brings an important perspective to the larger debate. We need strong progressive voices in our party, and he is one of them." There, see how easy it is.

[markk]

12. yea lets all just not point out the problems with candidates

and drink sodey pop and suck on lollipops and all dance a jig.. wont things be wonderful

[RBInMaine]

14. A foolish reply. Please be serious.

Are you drunk? Please try reading the posts. I say that there should be full discussion of issues and honest differences vetted but in a CIVIL way. This indeed mirrors the site's guidelines and the reminders from those who run the site regarding these primary election discussions.
I am not talking about civil discussions or differences of opinions about candidates and their policy ideas. I am talking about disgust with the abject SLAMMING of our own candidates. These are two entirely different things. Slamming Dem candidates is needless and flies in the very face of the site's guidelines. Please try to be serious and understand what is plainly being stated to you.

[zulchzulu]

15. There's the DU Lounge if you can't handle Politics...it's down the hall, to the right

Certainly you jest if you think that in a time where a lot is on the line with the primaries coming up that we should somehow gladhand and guffaw each other jus' how wunnerful da' party is... whoopee!

Please...I understand your sentiment to a degree, but when you talk politics, it's not milk and cookies and pink balloons. We can talk about Bush and his evilness all day, but it gets too dizzying to keep up.

Plato said: “One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Or better yet, keep this in mind when you venture into a political argument:

The Argument Sketch
From "Monty Python's Previous Record"

The Cast (in order of appearance.)
M= Man looking for an argument
R= Receptionist
Q= Abuser
A= Arguer (John Cleese)
C= Complainer (Eric Idle)
H= Head Hitter


M: Ah. I'd like to have an argument, please.
R: Certainly sir. Have you been here before?
M: No, I haven't, this is my first time.
R: I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?
M: Well, what is the cost?
R: Well, It's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten.
M: Well, I think it would be best if I perhaps started off with just the one and then see how it goes.
R: Fine. Well, I'll see who's free at the moment.
Pause
R: Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.
Ahh yes, Try Mr. Barnard; room 12.
M: Thank you.

(Walks down the hall. Opens door.)

Q: WHAT DO YOU WANT?
M: Well, I was told outside that...
Q: Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
M: What?
Q: Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
M: Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q: OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M: Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q: Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M: Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q: Not at all.
M: Thank You.
(Under his breath) Stupid git!!

(Walk down the corridor)
M: (Knock)
A: Come in.
M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?
A: I told you once.
M: No you haven't.
A: Yes I have.
M: When?
A: Just now.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't
A: I did!
M: You didn't!
A: I'm telling you I did!
M: You did not!!
A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
M: Oh, just the five minutes.
A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did.
M: You most certainly did not.
A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you.
M: No you did not.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't.
A: Did.
M: Oh look, this isn't an argument.
A: Yes it is.
M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction.
A: No it isn't.
M: It is!
A: It is not.
M: Look, you just contradicted me.
A: I did not.
M: Oh you did!!
A: No, no, no.
M: You did just then.
A: Nonsense!
M: Oh, this is futile!
A: No it isn't.
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!

A: Yes it is!
M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A: No it isn't.
M: It is.
A: Not at all.
M: Now look.
A: (Rings bell) Good Morning.
M: What?
A: That's it. Good morning.
M: I was just getting interested.
A: Sorry, the five minutes is up.
M: That was never five minutes!
A: I'm afraid it was.
M: It wasn't.
Pause
A: I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue anymore.
M: What?!
A: If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
M: Yes, but that was never five minutes, just now. Oh come on!
A: (Hums)
M: Look, this is ridiculous.
A: I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid!
M: Oh, all right.
(pays money)
A: Thank you.
short pause
M: Well?
A: Well what?
M: That wasn't really five minutes, just now.
A: I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.
M: I just paid!
A: No you didn't.
M: I DID!
A: No you didn't.
M: Look, I don't want to argue about that.
A: Well, you didn't pay.
M: Aha. If I didn't pay, why are you arguing? I Got you!
A: No you haven't.
M: Yes I have. If you're arguing, I must have paid.
A: Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time.
M: Oh I've had enough of this.
A: No you haven't.
M: Oh Shut up.

(Walks down the stairs. Opens door.)

M: I want to complain.
C: You want to complain! Look at these shoes. I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through.
M: No, I want to complain about...
C: If you complain nothing happens, you might as well not bother.
M: Oh!
C: Oh my back hurts, it's not a very fine day and I'm sick and tired of this office.


(Slams door. walks down corridor, opens next door.)

M: Hello, I want to... Ooooh!
H: No, no, no. Hold your head like this, then go Waaah. Try it again.
M: uuuwwhh!!
H: Better, Better, but Waah, Waah! Put your hand there.
M: No.
H: Now..
M: Waaaaah!!!
H: Good, Good! That's it.
M: Stop hitting me!!
H: What?
M: Stop hitting me!!
H: Stop hitting you?
M: Yes!
H: Why did you come in here then?
M: I wanted to complain.
H: Oh no, that's next door. It's being-hit-on-the-head lessons in here.
M: What a stupid concept!

[Like It Is]

16. It's called toughening them up!

What do you think the Repugs are going to do, handle them with kid gloves?

[BenDavid]

17. I agree 100% and reading this

forum for the last couple of months I have had the chance to increase my posts now to well over a 1000 to those blasting HRC. In the past I only posted to those articles and comments that were substantive in nature, but I could not let stand some of the hate generated towards HRC.

In my many years upon G-d's green earth I have never seen an opportunity for us to win the presidency and that includes Obama if he is the nominee.

But I must say, we do not need to spew our hatred towards any of our candidates. Hold your powder till the repugs have theirs and then ride to the sound of the guns.....

In closing I would say this, do we want to win or is giving HRC a black eye the goal.

I do thank you
Ben David

[emilyg]

19. Thank you.

[jillan]

18. When Barack Obama comes out and says that he has more foreign relations knowledge than any other

candidate running, in either party.....

It's kinda hard not to.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3413377&page=1

[Hippo_Tron]

23. You didn't answer my question about that in your thread so I'm going to ask it again

Why would you expect a candidate to not say that they have better foreign policy judgment than anyone else running. Certainly you can't expect Obama to say "Well other candidates have better foreign policy judgment than I do, but you should vote for me anyway." Self-promotion is in the job description of presidential candidate.

I could understand if you were criticizing a third party for stating that Obama has better foreign policy judgment than the other candidates, but why do you expect a candidate to say that other candidates are better than they are? That kind of defeats the purpose of running for office.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. The bashing will end when we have a nominee

It always does. Statements like "I won't vote for Candidate X if they are the nominee" are just heated primary rhetoric. When it's all said and done, they will look down the ballot and realize just how bad the Republican nominee is and how important it is to keep them out of office.

[democratsin08]

22. i agree

i am very concerned that obama has suddenly gone into attack dog mode. much more of this and hillary wont make him VP.

[Perry Logan]

24. One thing's for certain: you will not hear a kind word about the Democratic President in the media

You will not hear about any of his/her accomplishments. No one will discuss the record. You will hear only his/her alleged shortcomings. You will hear endless allegations. Everything will be spun against him/her. Right-wing lies and smears will dominate the media.

Just like with Bill Clinton.

And many DU members will come here and dutifully repeat these smears.